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Is 61 keys is enough for Rock\Pop band context?


hag01

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I think the answer also depends on the type of 'pop' music. The pop music I am playing with the FA is not really piano, electric piano, organ stuff with busy fingers flying up and down the ivories. I"m doing pads, arpegiator, sample pads and some mono leads for that pop band project. Simple motions and repetitive lines. If it"s piano and organ rock I"m on the Forte 7 and Legend to rock out on.

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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Even though I've gone as far as 4-part splits in the past, nowadays I am addicted to 88 (or at least 73) keys for piano and synth comping, and another 61 for simultaneous organ. Extra points if I have a lead synth handy. In emergencies, though, I can get through a practice (or even a gig) with a 49-key keytar.

-Tom Williams

{First Name} {at} AirNetworking {dot} com

PC4-7, PX-5S, AX-Edge, PC361

 

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As said, it depends on a lot of things (for instance, does the board have dedicated octave buttons would be something to check)

 

I myself went from using 3 boards (88 keys Casio, nord electro 73 and Nord a1) to using only a Nord A1 and a Mopho keys, together with a sampler and a pedalboard holding a micromonsta a some more stuff. This was possible because the band also shifted to almost only (electronic) pop music (no piano or Hammond parts). Sometimes I have to be creative to make it work, but I really enjoy the compact rig which I can set up in literally less then 3 minutes. We do a lot of festivals and this saves me time and stress:)

 

Also I think 2 small boards are easier tho handle and more flexible than 1 big board.

Rudy

 

 

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Agreed. I could never do it in my band I just need all these keys available at any time. I need 88 + another keyboard.

Says the man with a Montage 7... :)

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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Agreed. I could never do it in my band I just need all these keys available at any time. I need 88 + another keyboard.

Says the man with a Montage 7... :)

I guess that's to put above his CP4!

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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This has been hinted at but not explicitly stated: if you are programming and saving splits and layers on a per song basis at home, then you can carefully choose split points and decide what parts are less essential when limited by 61 keys. Another variable would the ability to easily move up/down adjacent presets via up/down button or foot switch. More presets per song allows fewer splits/layers per preset.

 

Actually, the MODx61 allows much of this while staying within one or two performances. Seems like a good choice.

 

If the band calls songs out-of-The-blue, so no pre-planning, I play one important part and call it a day.

 

In a live context, playing organ OR piano is often nearly as good as organ AND piano, and is often better for me.

 

How many of us with two keyboards have had a catastrophic loss of a board on a gig, only to discover that the only ones who notice are maybe one or two band members.

 

I"ve had three incidents of keyboard failure in the last 20 years. The show must go on. Being left without a single keyboard is scarier than the reduced number of keys.

Barry

 

Home: Steinway L, Montage 8

 

Gigs: Yamaha CP88, Crumar Mojo 61, A&H SQ5 mixer, ME1 IEM, MiPro 909 IEMs

 

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For single keyboard gigs with a lot of piano playing I've got to have at least 7x keys, especially for songs like Locomotive Breath or I've Been To Memphis; and 88 keys is better. For rock and pop gigs with splits/layers, I've used 76 keys many times (Nord Stage or Jupiter 50). Unless I'm using two keyboards - with 76 or 88 on the bottom, 61 keys is somewhat restrictive.

'Someday, we'll look back on these days and laugh; likely a maniacal laugh from our padded cells, but a laugh nonetheless' - Mr. Boffo.

 

We need a barfing cat emoticon!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I don"t think I"m on the same page as to what pop is. I"m not judging age and am myself 49 years old and appreciate the music of the past, considering Locomotive Breath is from 1971. When I say I would play an entire pop gig on 61 keys I am thinking more in terms of music from the 2010"s and the most recent few years. More likely for an audience that favors Bruno Mars, Daft Punk, Imagine Dragons, Justin Timberlake, Shawn Mendes or Katy Perry than Lyle Lovett or Jethro Tull, if that makes sense. For that context, it"s what that band does and it"s identity/crowd.

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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I played in a rock band for several years on a keyboard with 61 keys and I found it OK but limiting. I upgraded to a 76 key unweighted controller (Yamaha KX76) and was much happier.

 

Having said that, I was not dealing with public transportation - I was driving to gigs in a minivan.

 

For me, the ideal live scenario (without carrying too much gear) is a weighted 88 key on the bottom and a synth style 61 key on the top. If the sky was the limit, I would add an organ to my right.

 

But I agree with one of the other posters - it"s more about the artist than his/her tools. Jordan Rudess will blow your mind playing on an iPad running GeoShred.

Kurzweil PC3x, Hammond XK-1, Apple MacBook Pro running Logic Pro X, various virtual instruments, Mackie Onyx 1220 mixer, Roland SRV-2000 digital reverb, Lexicon MX400 digital effects processor, etc.
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Agreed. I could never do it in my band I just need all these keys available at any time. I need 88 + another keyboard.

Says the man with a Montage 7... :)

I guess that's to put above his CP4!

 

Nailed it. Montage 7 and CP4 is my Top 40 rig and it kills.

Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37

 

My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section

https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native

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If I had to travel mass transit to gigs I believe I could figure out how to play my gigs with a single 61-key lightweight keyboard. For a pop / rock gig it would require getting my splits and layers setup at home in advance of the gigs. It seems to me that 'what keyboard can be comfortably carried on mass transit?' is the first question that needs to be answered. Then you do what you gotta do to make it work. In the 80"s and 90"s I played a lot of pop / rock on a lightweight 76-key keyboard and never felt wanting for more keys.
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If I had to travel mass transit to gigs I believe I could figure out how to play my gigs with a single 61-key lightweight keyboard.For a pop / rock gig it would require getting my splits and layers setup at home in advance of the gigs. It seems to me that 'what keyboard can be comfortably carried on mass transit?' is the first question that needs to be answered. Then you do what you gotta do to make it work.

Yeah, in most cases, I think you can do it if you need to. Elaborating a bit on what I said earlier, if I needed to do a lot of splits to make it work with the repertoire at hand, I'd probably go with the Juno DS61 for the easy on-the-fly octave manipulation I talked about, which can help you stretch the sounds on either side of the split to a wider range than the keys you can afford to assign to it. If splits aren't a major issue, there my remaining criteria might be seamless sound switching to stop sounds from cutting off abruptly when switching to the next sound, since there's likely to be a lot of switching when using a single board. One more criteria I might consider, though, is how well you can integrate sounds from an iPad/iPhone, since that's an easy way to add a lot of functionality to your board at essentially no increase in travel weight. So then my first choice might be the MODX6, which beats out the DS61 on that last one (and has what I think are better sounds in general).

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I've played on 61 key boards since the late 80's. Mainly in country bands with heavy piano, epiano, organ, strings, etc. I started playing left hand bass in the late 80's and the semi-weighted worked much better for this to me. I don't have to play bass much anymore and just do the piano, strings, organ type stuff with country or classic rock/pop bands. It's much easier to travel and as I get older I appreciate the lighter weight of a 61 key. It's all a matter of personal preference and what you adapt to. I'm mainly a Roland user with the exception of a Roli Seaboard I keep in the home studio. The FA06 is not near the keybed of my older Fantom so I use the Fantom as a controller and the 06 for voices. On small shows I will play just the 06 and get by with it. I probably would have purchased the 76 key FA07 if it was available when I bought the FA06 since it's suppose to have a better keybed.
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I used to play in blues bands in the late 90's with only a 61 key semi-weighted Alesis QS6 and pulled it off using mainly AP, EP, and organ sounds. Of course I wasn't using any splits.

Gigs: Nord 5D 73, Kurz PC4-7 & SP4-7, Hammond SK1, Yamaha MX88 & P121, Numa Compact 2x, Casio CGP700, QSC K12, Yamaha DBR10, JBL515xt(2). Alto TS310(2)

 

 

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As a bunch of others have said, it depends. For me 76-keys is the perfect medium and as mentioned the MODX7 is light enough you could absolutely take it on public transport. I actually struggle with 88-key boards if I have songs with basic splits - I can never remember where I've put the splits :D
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It's absolutely possible to use 61 keys for classic rock so long as ---- and this is not an endorsement ---- but with the Kronos, using the Karma scene buttons I do splits, layers, octave changes and program/combi changes without cutoff of sound. Many times I've had keyboard players come up to me after a gig and ask me how I can play with just one 61 key keyboard. It's a challenge, but I find it easy after planning and programming all song material to the Karma scenes. And the biggest plus, It's a five minute setup/teardown.
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It's absolutely possible to use 61 keys for classic rock so long as ---- and this is not an endorsement ---- but with the Kronos, using the Karma scene buttons I do splits, layers, octave changes and program/combi changes without cutoff of sound.

 

One of these days I have to get my head around that Karna stuff. It seemed to be so focussed on auto-generation of sound that I never cared about it (I don't use sequencers or arpeggiators, I just use my fingers to play, what a concept!). The idea of using it the way you're talking about is appealing, but it's never presented that way, and I don't even know where to start in trying to come at Karma from that angle.

 

Though I still wouldn't pick a Kronos for public transit. Too heavy!

 

And the biggest plus, It's a five minute setup/teardown.

Well, not counting the multi-minute bootup, I guess. ;-)

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I did it for around a year and a half. 2-3 gigs a week, all on a 61-note Roland keyboard.

 

If you're clever with your splits and layers and know your instrument inside out, very doable. Whether it's enjoyable playing all that stuff on a 61 note action (likely to be synth action), then YMMV.

Hammond SKX

Mainstage 3

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Nailed it. Montage 7 and CP4 is my Top 40 rig and it kills.
Bobby - I guess no call for clonewheel in your top 40 band?

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

Trust me I would love it. And a couple times a year I bring my SK2 and set it up perpendicular to my Yamaha stack. But adding a third board makes for significantly more hassle and time, and frankly 70% of the stages we play on don't have room for it. It also only adds about a 20% bump in sonic improvement, given the material we are playing. If we are playing a dinner set, the clonewheel is more useful {ballads like Tennessee Whiskey} but if it's all dance Top 40 there isn't that much more of a need.

Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37

 

My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section

https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native

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Yeah, for my wedding band stuff, I've gotten by more often than not with the organ sounds in my MOX/MODX. But I miss a better organ sometimes.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I'm a two-board guy, mainly because I've occasionally had issues with a keyboard. Lately that has been my Kurzweil pc361.

 

I also have the modx (7) and I debated the 6. The main reason I went with the 7 was being able to do splits a little easier. For single sounds, a 6 would have been fine. The 7 is so light that really other than cost the only possible downside was the extra length on tight stages--but it's shorter than most 7s. Like you I stay out of the bass player's way :)

 

I'm actually very surprised at the organ in the modx...sounds much better than the one in my old Motif. As I've been in a synth mode more lately, the thought of maybe selling my Electro 6 has JUST A BIT crept into my mind...organ would suffer but I'd make up for it by getting another cool synth :D No way I'll gig with 3 keyboards.

 

The other thing I love about this keyboard is how easy it is to plug an ipad in and just play it through the main audio outs. There are some really nice virtual analog synths for ipad that (IMO) kind of help the modx out a little bit in that area...I have Zeeon and Moog Model 15 (and Animoog but Model 15 sounds better to me). Speaking of ipad, the modx7 has more empty space for something like an ipad to set up there. I'm going to velcro it since the thing is on a bit of a slope. If ipad organs reach a quality level close to the electro (they aren't, are they?) that might push me a little more to exchange my electro for something.

 

Edit: I did my first stereo gig (stereo to FOH, stereo in my ears)...wow, the modx sounds freaking great (as did the electro). My mix was also great since I could pan guitar, vocals etc around and the keys were "around" everything. I've been converted to the dark side, at least as long as we do our own sound (still I test patches for mono for times we don't have a choice).

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