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Is 61 keys is enough for Rock\Pop band context?


hag01

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I don't have choice anyway because I'm going with public transportation(that's mean a lot of walking by foot as well).

I already ordered a Yamaha MODX6 and MONO M80 Vertigo case, but I would like to see you opinions.

I was thinking if the bass player play on the bass range all the time then I don't have to disturb him and play on the bass range at all, in that case 61 keys would be enough.

That is at least my conclusion after playing in a cover band one rehearsal about half a year ago, but I want to see your opinions anyway, I'm sure there are many proffessionals with much more experience than me in this forum.

 

I ordered the MODX6 after getting a warm invitation to play in some rock band, and that is going to be my single board. if it will work out for me(and for the band as whole as well) it will be the first band that I actually performed with as a keyboardist.

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I think it depends on the material. I splay in a band that does rock and pop and I end up doing a whole lot of splits on 2 keyboards. 61 keys just wouldn't be enough real estate for me. I have 61 on top and 76 on bottom. I know a guy in a pop band who gets by with just 76 keys, but in order to do it, he has to do stuff like transpose some of the zones so he can fit all the splits within the keys he has available, which would screw me up because he's playing one part ina different key than the other parts at the same time.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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I play pop music in a band and sometimes just go minimalist with a Roland FA-07 (76 keys). I would be fine with one less octave and just using 61 keys if it was the right instrument. I use 61 keys on my Komplete Kontrol all the time for most of my DAW based projects as well even though it's not for a band. I got my start with 5 octave synths in the 80's when I played a Korg DW-80000 and a Roland JX-8P on 2 tiers and I don't remember needing more keys for anything I wanted to do.

Yamaha U1 Upright, Roland Fantom 8, Nord Stage 4 HA73, Nord Wave 2, Korg Nautilus 73, Viscount Legend Live, Lots of Mainstage/VST Libraries

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Absolutely yes, but it may require more homework and preparation. You may have to train your mind to remember where splits and octave shifts are for each song, and you may be switching back and forth between multiple setups in the same song. It can be constraining. You may want to do an organ smear but can't because of the split point. But I've always enjoyed the sense of accomplishment in pulling it off.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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If you're playing one sound across the whole keyboard, 61 is serviceable. It gets really tight if you're doing splits. In that case, I suggest the Roland Juno DS61 because, the way it does simple 2-way splits, you can easily independently adjust the volumes and even the octaves of each sound, on the fly. Or change the sound one one part of the keyboard while you continue to play on the other. Casio MZ-X300/500 are also good at these things, but they're a bit heavier. MODX, Juno DS, and Casio MZ-X are also generally good at letting you change sounds without having any held or decaying notes from your previous sound cut off, something that is especially nice when you're playing with just one keyboard. Overall I'd go with MODX if you don't need the kind of on the fly split flexibility I mentioned, otherwise I'd probably choose one of the others.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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For me the different between 61 and 73 is the difference between 'making it work' and it working.

 

I tried to make a go of the Electro as a single board for awhile, but kept finding the "wrong" keys missing in the compromise. I could adjust to it, but it wasn't ideal. With the NS3 Compact (73 keys), it essentially never happens that I wish I had a higher or lower note than the ones at hand.

 

The size difference isn't substantial, and in fact I still use the road case I bought for the NE5D, with the NS3C.

Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material.
www.joshweinstein.com

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7x keys makes a big difference, if you can manage it.

 

The 88 key Numa Compact 2X is only a pound heavier than the MODX6, but the 50" length might be pushing it on public transit?

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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"it depends on the material" and "If you're playing one sound across the whole keyboard, 61 is serviceable." I play a 61-key Nord 5D but I do not do splits. I'm either playing organ or Wurly or piano on the whole keyboard. I also double on sax. If you're playing basic blues/rock, 61 keys is fine. But if you're playing pop music with synth sounds or strings or horn section sounds and splitting the keyboard, what everybody says above is true â 61 keys won't be enough.
These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise.
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My first 'real' synth was a Super JX-10, so 61 have nearly always been confining to me. However I also understand needing to leave the bassist"s frequencies alone so perhaps 61 is best suited for your new venture.

 

I"m going to attempt my first gig with only the MODX7 tomorrow. While I have several splits set up for specific tunes (and really appreciate the extra room with 76 keys), there are several tunes that simply tapping another sound on the Live Set screen works just as well. I"ve also got a couple of Performances with different sounds cued up on the Scene buttons for quick and easy switches during a few tunes. Loving this board, now.

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Between a rock and a hard place using public transport. I wouldn't want to carry more than a 61 unless it was a Nord Stage Compact in the Nord gig bag. But the OP may not want to spend $3600. I believe you can work around any keyspan problem on a 61, but you have to ask whether a mere workaround will be enough for the gig, or does it demand more authenticity?

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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Between a rock and a hard place using public transport. I wouldn't want to carry more than a 61 unless it was a Nord Stage Compact in the Nord gig bag. But the OP may not want to spend $3600.

NS3 Compact is 22 lbs. There are cheaper/lighter 7x-key boards, too. MODX7, Juno DS-76, Krome 73.

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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As Mike so kindly mentioned several posts up, I have some experience with this since I've played a single keyboard rig with 61 unweighted keys (or "semi" weighted, I don't really know the difference) for more than 25 years.

 

For general purpose rock/pop stuff, I would say 61 keys is doable but you may need to work a little harder to get the job done in some circumstances. There are quite a few times when I'm playing that I'll do a run up or down the keyboard and suddenly need that extra octave that's not there â whether it's on the top or bottom end. I've internalized my use of the octave switch buttons to the point where it's almost unconscious â I "play" those buttons like I play the keys, it's just part of the instrument to me, like the octave key on a saxophone. Sax players don't consciously think about pressing that key each time, and I don't think about those octave transpose buttons anymore â they're just there, and I can do seamless runs that span the 88-key range of a piano without thinking about when to hit them. I did not consciously practice this skill, it just came about over years of playing. For some, it may be an annoyance to deal with â I didn't mind.

 

The other consideration is splits, which can be a problem depending on the material and what you need to cover. For me, most of the time 61 keys hasn't been an issue because it's rare that I've needed to play two or three simultaneous parts that each had a very wide range. For example, on one song I might need 2 1/2 octaves of rhodes to play a comping part, then only 5 or six notes for a horn stab, and another octave for a guitar plucking part. Having said that, there have been times when I've had to get creative with zoning and transposing to fit everything I need. Having a laptop rig with very flexible software tools helps a lot there, but I'm guessing most multitimbral boards have options to do the same. Good luck!

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For me, 7X is right in the center of the Goldilocks Zone. I have spent the year or two since acquiring the NS3C trying to find an excuse to add a "lower 88" back in and haven't found a good one yet. If anything, I more often relegate the NS3C to the bottom tier and add toys on top. Once you've been able to march into a gig with your whole rig strapped to your back and on a small cart, it is VERY hard to conscience adding more weight and cartage for so little return (if any in most cases).

Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material.
www.joshweinstein.com

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I play blues/rock and some pop and use splits on the Electro 5d (73 keys), and would never be able to get by with 61 keys. Every so often, even the 73 keys are too limiting - but that's in part because the Electro limits where the split point can be, which sometimes results in the loss of an octave or so.
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61 keys is a little tight if you want to do splits. 73/76 is better - or 88 if you like weighted action. I went from two "stacks" of keys live to just one 61 note keyboard with another rack module midi'd to it and it worked well, but that was for an all original project. For a cover band, it would be limiting. Two keyboards is more than twice as good as one if you ask me. Depends on the material though.
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I used 61 keys back in the early nineties and with a press of a foot pedal was able to shift the entire board up one octave (thanks Ensoniq). I found 61 keys too restrictive for piano and moved to 88 keys. Due to weight/size I'm down to 76 keys which I feel is the best compromise for me.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

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If you can sit through about 1 1/2 minutes of jazz, this video I just uploaded shows me using the octave transpose keys to get a more piano-like range from my 61-key Roland.

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3006937/time-remembered-bill-evans#Post3006937

 

You call that jazz?? Where is the formless arrhythmic noodling???

Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material.
www.joshweinstein.com

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If you can sit through about 1 1/2 minutes of jazz, this video I just uploaded shows me using the octave transpose keys to get a more piano-like range from my 61-key Roland.

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3006937/time-remembered-bill-evans#Post3006937

 

You call that jazz?? Where is the formless arrhythmic noodling???

I'm working on it â have to practice!!

 

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Is it enough or is it how you like to work? .... it depends. 61 is enough barring anything unusual like ... my rendering of Locomotive Breath ð. Even then you can adapt. Hell you can play a gig on a melodeon with a transducer and a DI box.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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Two keyboards is more than twice as good as one if you ask me. Depends on the material though.
+1^

 

FWIW, I found my soft gig bag comfortably managed two keyboards, if one was a 61 and the other a 49. Both were lightweight plastic boards, so quite carry-able via public transit. BUT there would still be need for two stands or a double, at least two needs for power instead of one (more, if using a mixer), etc. Not to mention setup time.

 

Of course, the OP specified *one* keyboard. The reasons for gigging with just one keyboard are many, and almost entirely about practicality. I soon traded that 49 (Yamaha) for the 61 version of the same thing, which then became my #1 band keyboard. Not because it was the best (it wasn't), and it certainly wasn't the sexiest, but it adequately covered the necessary sounds, reasonably efficiently. However: like the other pro-61 posters above, I didn't do any splits (partly because none of the bands required it).

 

Speaking of the OP: congrats!! It was only a couple years ago that I had my first audition (and eventual gig) as a keyboardist in a rock band. Before long I found myself in several bands -- none quite fulfilling enough to hold my interest, as it turned out, but I never doubted why I was doing it, and it was nice not having anything on my shoulder.

 

 

It's not the gear, it's the player ... but hey, look -- new gear!

 

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IMO, 61 is enough.

 Find 660 of my jazz piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Harry was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book."

 

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the OP specified one keyboard. FWIW, I found my soft gig bag comfortably managed two keyboards, if one was a 61 and the other a 49. Both were lightweight plastic boards, so quite carry-able via public transit. BUT there would still be need for two stands or a double, at least two needs for power instead of one (more, if using a mixer), etc. Not to mention setup time.

Good idea there, if you need to do splits, and don't want to worry about running out of keys for a part on a split 61... a really small and light second board you can fit into the same bag, with a little fabric between them. With a MODX, I could see putting, for example, a Samson Graphite 49 above, using it as a controller (with aftertouch!) for additional MODX sounds. Since all the sounds are still coming out of the MODX, that reduces some of the needs you might otherwise have for extra cabling or a mixer. As for the stand, a K&M18880 is light, and hardly any heavier or bigger with the 18881 stacker attached.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Once you've been able to march into a gig with your whole rig strapped to your back and on a small cart, it is VERY hard to conscience adding more weight and cartage for so little return (if any in most cases).

 

This relates directly to the OPs key point -- that he's strictly limited in how much he can carry. Take that consideration away and, yeah, it's much easier to justify having more keys.

 

There was a time in my life when I could spend an hour setting up and breaking down, with multiple trips to the car, and it really didn't matter. Now I place great value on being a one trip pony. Keyboard, stand, amp, stand up or find a chair at the gig tall enough to sit on, there's a lot of situation where I'll tolerate a limited key range to have that breeze-in, breeze-out convenience.

 

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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I think it depends on the material. I splay in a band that does rock and pop and I end up doing a whole lot of splits on 2 keyboards. 61 keys just wouldn't be enough real estate for me. I have 61 on top and 76 on bottom. I know a guy in a pop band who gets by with just 76 keys, but in order to do it, he has to do stuff like transpose some of the zones so he can fit all the splits within the keys he has available, which would screw me up because he's playing one part ina different key than the other parts at the same time.

 

 

Agreed. I could never do it in my band I just need all these keys available at any time. I need 88 + another keyboard.

Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37

 

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