Music Player Network

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
New Roland Fantom #3006641 09/05/19 07:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 176
gino Offline OP
Senior Member
OP Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 176

Last edited by gino; 09/05/19 07:33 AM.
KC Island
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006642 09/05/19 07:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 40
A
Aperkeys Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
A
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 40
Finally. Yet, did I miss - NO user Multisamples???


My Gear: Korg Kronos X 73, Nord Stage EX Compact, Kurzweil PC3K6 (For rehearsals mainly).
My Band: Aperco.
https://www.youtube.com/user/apercoband
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006644 09/05/19 07:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 70
M
mojkarma Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
M
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 70
Obviously no multisamples. Roland wouldn't be Roland if they wouldn't screw things up again.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: mojkarma] #3006645 09/05/19 07:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 40
A
Aperkeys Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
A
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 40
Unless they pull a "Kurzweil Forte" two years from now wink


My Gear: Korg Kronos X 73, Nord Stage EX Compact, Kurzweil PC3K6 (For rehearsals mainly).
My Band: Aperco.
https://www.youtube.com/user/apercoband
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006647 09/05/19 07:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 12,849
R
RABid Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
R
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 12,849
Lack of multisamples is nothing to me. I would venture that less than 5 percent of past Fantom users ever use them. Plus you can always connect a computer. I like the dual CV/Gate outputs and it seems that they are really targeting the electronic music scene.

I'm more interested in knowing if they integrated the organ.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: RABid] #3006651 09/05/19 08:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 70
M
mojkarma Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
M
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by RABid
Lack of multisamples is nothing to me. I would venture that less than 5 percent of past Fantom users ever use them. Plus you can always connect a computer.


I could be wrong, but I suppose that most people who buy keyboards these days, do it because they play live. In the studio you can replace everything with the computer, not just the multisample option. Now, if you take the bigger picture, worldwide people will miss some specific sounds (probably mostly ethnic type natural sounds) which are not present in the Fantom and can't be added later. So, they will skip the Fantom and buy a Montage or Kronos instead.
But you could be right, they are probably targeting the electronic music scene. Another bad decision IMHO because an all purpose keyboard like a Fantom should be targeted to a wider range and there is not a lot missing to achieve that.

Last edited by mojkarma; 09/05/19 08:36 AM.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006652 09/05/19 09:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
I’m in TEARS!

Tears of joy...

...at last!


F—k the new MacPro, I’m getting me a Fantom.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006657 09/05/19 10:51 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 906
B
Bill W Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
B
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 906
Unfortunately, I live and die by multisampling. However, there is a glimmer of hope:

Quote
Drawing from over four decades of genre-defining sounds, FANTOM’s expandable sound engine nails our classic synths but pushes into new sonic territory as well. Our custom Behavior Modeling Chips power FANTOM’s core, with smooth and precise control, loads of polyphony, and full patch remain. And FANTOM is part of an expandable platform, with new sounds and new possibilities coming.


Maybe it'll be like the G-series where multisampling was added later.

Last edited by Bill W; 09/05/19 10:56 AM.

Korg Kronos 61 (2); Casio PX-350M; 2015 Macbook Pro and 2012 Mac Mini (Logic Pro X and Mainstage).

My Genesis Tribute Band: www.sellingfairfaxbythepound.com


Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006658 09/05/19 10:59 AM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,337
ElmerJFudd Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,337
The V-Piano is an engine here yes?
So they don’t need multisamples for the pianos it would seem.


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006659 09/05/19 11:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,299
Synthoid Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,299
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006660 09/05/19 11:33 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,364
S
stoken6 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
S
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,364
Interesting that Roland think they can turn a profit with a new workstation.

Cheers, Mike.


AX48.PM351.FC7.VFP2
One or two keyboards.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006665 09/05/19 12:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,835
ABECK Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,835
Looks surprisingly like the Montage/ModX from a distance.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006666 09/05/19 12:14 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
CEB Online Content
10k Club
Online Content
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
They went down the same road as Montage. Everything is a single mode. I don’t care for the color scheme on the right panel, looks like it will be harder to read in low light conditions , sort of like the MOX. But the specs look solid. The 8 is 61 pounds, the 7 is around 40 pounds. These are real instruments.

Last edited by CEB; 09/05/19 12:16 PM.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006669 09/05/19 12:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,255
M
MotiDave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
M
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,255
Game Changer.


The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: ABECK] #3006670 09/05/19 12:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,299
Synthoid Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,299
Originally Posted by ABECK
Looks surprisingly like the Montage/ModX from a distance.


With a little bit of Nord red thrown in as well.


When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006671 09/05/19 12:37 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 682
J
jeffinpghpa Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
J
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 682
Looks like a real instrument. As Andrew said, it seems to borrow a lot of look from a Montage. At the end of the day, I can't yet clearly summarize what this allows me to do that I can't do with my FA-07.

I think I'm more likely to GAS for the new Jupiter next year as my workstation interests continue to move further into the MacBook platform.

But it's nice to see Roland come back with some real flagship builds again! Seems to be a welcome new generation of choices for us.


Yamaha U1 Upright, Kurzweil Forte 7, Viscount Legend Live, Roland FA-07, Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk2, Arturia V Collection 6, Komplete 12, Lots of iPad Stuff, Pair of QSC K10 Speakers
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006674 09/05/19 12:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,299
Synthoid Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,299
Prices so far:

Fantom 6 $3299

Fantom 7 $3599

Fantom 8 $3999


When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006679 09/05/19 01:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,337
ElmerJFudd Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,337
What happened to Roland being the value for your $ synth manufacturer? ouch.


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006681 09/05/19 01:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 767
rickzjamm Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 767
Also borrows from the Kronos (now almost everybody has jumped on the touch screen bandwagon & about time). Love Roland sounds & the configuration looks intuitive but it gained weight, not a gigging board.


Plan your work & work your plan.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006689 09/05/19 03:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
So....yeah!!!!!

I just got done watching the long video with the connectivity breakdown as far as all the i/o.... This is a serious instrument that speaks directly to me. I love they've brought over the XLR outs, as well as the XLR In.

Also, it's built in Audio i/0 can have its outputs routed to any of the physical outputs. Which brings me to having the 2 sets of sub outs (4 total). In my use, I could run the organ thru a sub out to my Lester K. etc..etc..

Yes, I am one of those who doesn't need user multi-sampling. Like anything, specific features likes and dislikes come down to individual desires. I never used it on my old Fantom X6. I did use expansion cards. It appears they say the new one is designed to be expandable?

Anyway, my initial though is.... I want one


David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Yamaha MODX6 |

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: MotiDave] #3006692 09/05/19 03:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 8,803
davedoerfler Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 8,803
Originally Posted by MotiDave
Game Changer.

stooges grin


A reason why I collect old keyboards is that I feel partly responsible for doing it, responsible for preserving history and being a custodian for these things
Plus, old gear has a story. I like that.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006695 09/05/19 03:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 14
S
SteveUK Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 14
3 USB sockets for external controllers looks pretty tasty 👍

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006697 09/05/19 04:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
CEB Online Content
10k Club
Online Content
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
I’ll take the 7 if I don’t retire. Maybe give the FA06 to a young player. But retirement maybe a lot of fun.


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006700 09/05/19 04:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
I think the ' modeless ' concept is smart

No reliance on keeping up with computer tech , or struggling with massive processing requirements.

And the recording, YESSir. I like the strength and options, etc etc

Last edited by GregC; 09/05/19 04:38 PM.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006704 09/05/19 04:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 767
rickzjamm Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 767
Has the best of the Forte, Nord (well, the jury's still out on the organs), Yamaha and even some in house borrowing from the FA series... add that to the Roland PHA-5 hammer action! Yeah it's a dream board, I want.


Plan your work & work your plan.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: SteveUK] #3006708 09/05/19 05:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
Originally Posted by SteveUK
3 USB sockets for external controllers looks pretty tasty 👍


I especially like this


David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Yamaha MODX6 |

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006712 09/05/19 05:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 10,809
nursers Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 10,809
It's one solid offering . If I didn't have a Kronos and was looking for a big workstation this would be high on the list, although it's heavyish (Fantom 7 is same weight as my Kronos LE 88).

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006718 09/05/19 05:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 40
A
Aperkeys Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
A
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 40
From the features at the Roland site:
Quote
FANTOM runs multiple synthesis technologies simultaneously, for authentic acoustic and electronic sounds, both modern and classic. You can also sample your own sounds and trigger up to 2 GBs worth of loops and one-shots from the pad matrix. There’s a fully routable analog filter for extra warmth and grit, and you can even mix soft synths with FANTOM’s internal sounds.

"Sample your own sounds". Is this the indication user multisamples will come in the future?


My Gear: Korg Kronos X 73, Nord Stage EX Compact, Kurzweil PC3K6 (For rehearsals mainly).
My Band: Aperco.
https://www.youtube.com/user/apercoband
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006719 09/05/19 05:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
At this point, I’m just glad Roland hasn’t abandoned this market. After the Jupiters were discontinued I really thought they were done here. I regretted selling my Jupiter 50, thinking they weren’t gonna make another thing like it.

As much as I have appreciated my Yamahas/Korg/Nord, I don’t vibe with them quite the way I vibe with Roland’s stuff.

Sweetwater lists them as in stock and shipping now. I can’t wait!


As for future updates, I remember the Fantom X didn’t have audio recording at first, that was added with the 2.0 update. So adding multi-sampling with an update sounds possible to me.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: EscapeRocks] #3006720 09/05/19 06:05 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,364
S
stoken6 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
S
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,364
Originally Posted by EscapeRocks
Originally Posted by SteveUK
3 USB sockets for external controllers looks pretty tasty 👍


I especially like this


I saw that. Yamaha P125 under a Fantom 6 or 7 is a sweet rig (assuming the organs are up to scratch) although a bit heavy for a top board.

Cheers, Mike.


AX48.PM351.FC7.VFP2
One or two keyboards.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: stoken6] #3006722 09/05/19 06:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 648
T
TomKittel Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
T
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 648
Semi weighted keys with aftertouch, nice. But weight, size and price are hefty.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006732 09/05/19 07:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 14
S
SteveUK Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 14
This is the first Roland in a long time that has me excited. I used to love my JV2080 back in the day. I had an FA06 for a while but didn’t like the keybed or the midi implementation (understand that may have improved with updates). This looks like it could be a real the heart of a rig

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006739 09/05/19 08:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 848
Mighty Motif Max Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 848
Wow, am I late...just came here to post about this. crazy

Glad someone is releasing a new workstation! I agree it looks similar to the Montage. I don't like the red on the back, but hey, that's just an aesthetic. Hopefully the specs aren't too watered down. Also hoping for complete midi implementation. Wish it were a bit lighter but it's still two pounds lighter than the Montage 88. rawk


Yamaha: Motif XF8/YS200/CVP-305/CLP-130/YPG-235/PSR-295/PSS-470
Korg: Krome 61
Roland: JV-1000
Casio: CT-370
Kimball Valencia/Broadway/Conn 465 w/144 spkrs/WCOC Reed Organ/Titano Virtuoso Converter
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Aperkeys] #3006741 09/05/19 08:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 848
Mighty Motif Max Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 848
Originally Posted by Aperkeys
Finally. Yet, did I miss - NO user Multisamples???


Regular samples though...maybe they can add that later.

"Sampler
Format
16-bit linear, 44.1/48kHz, WAV/AIFF import supported
Maximum Polyphony
8
Number of Samples
16 Pads x 4 Banks"

Wondering about this "Zen Core" sound engine...


Yamaha: Motif XF8/YS200/CVP-305/CLP-130/YPG-235/PSR-295/PSS-470
Korg: Krome 61
Roland: JV-1000
Casio: CT-370
Kimball Valencia/Broadway/Conn 465 w/144 spkrs/WCOC Reed Organ/Titano Virtuoso Converter
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006743 09/05/19 08:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
Totally irrelevant, but my OCD hates how they use inconsistent typography for the product logo. Caps except for the n and m? I’m sure it’s intentional, because that’s not something that would slip through the cracks. Weird how only the FA seem intended as Caps, but the T and O are still caps even though they are slightly smaller. Or it’s like the FA are a different font, but that still doesn’t explain the mismatch of the nTOm.

Last edited by zephonic; 09/05/19 08:29 PM.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006746 09/05/19 08:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,049
GovernorSilver Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,049
According to Factmag, Zen Core is a mix of PCM samples and virtual analog modeling. So I guess it's the latest iteration of Roland's D-50 synthesis technology, presumably more capable in 2019 than the late 1980s version.

https://www.factmag.com/2019/09/05/roland-mc-707-mc-101-groovebox-announced/

MusicRadar also has an article but that site has proven to be unreliable.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006750 09/05/19 09:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,916
Synthaholic Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,916
Reading up on this new line of workstations, the word ‘Supernatural’ is nowhere to be found. 🤔


The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers

People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: EscapeRocks] #3006753 09/05/19 10:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 141
J
JimboKeys Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
J
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 141
Originally Posted by EscapeRocks
Originally Posted by SteveUK
3 USB sockets for external controllers looks pretty tasty 👍

I especially like this

Doesn't mean that they will necessarily be class compliant - i wouldn't be surprised to find them to be specific to certain Roland products, same as the USB device connectors on the MX-1 mixer.

- Jimbo


"It's called an expression pedal for a reason: It's not a volume pedal." -- Dr. Lonnie Smith
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006754 09/05/19 10:14 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,337
ElmerJFudd Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,337
Liking the two pair of stereo sub outs.

And the built in audio interface, 3 USB ports for external controllers, inclusion of 5 pin MIDI...


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Synthaholic] #3006757 09/05/19 10:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,368
Tom Williams Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,368
Originally Posted by Synthaholic
Reading up on this new line of workstations, the word ‘Supernatural’ is nowhere to be found. 🤔

Hmm. Although it was non-programmable, the Supernatural violin on my long-gone AX-Synth was pretty amazing. Bummer that SN didn't seem to blossom.


-Tom Williams
<First name><At>AirNetworking<dot>com
PC361, PX-5S, AX-Edge
M-Audio Keystation 88, Axiom 61
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Tom Williams] #3006762 09/05/19 11:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,027
B
bennyray Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
B
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,027
The Stereo Analog filters sound really warm and lush with the new sound engine.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006764 09/05/19 11:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
Originally Posted by RABid
I'm more interested in knowing if they integrated the organ.

Yes, check the video at about 1:20, he says the sliders double as organ drawbars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELYQKUdIayg

This makes it one of the few boards that can give you simultaneous control to organ drawbars and a battery of real-time synth controls... i.e. arguably a pretty decent functional competitor to a Nord Stage, if you can deal with the added weight.

Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
The V-Piano is an engine here yes?
So they don’t need multisamples for the pianos it would seem.

Right, V-Piano is modeled. I'm sure there are also plenty of multisampled sounds in the Fantom, though at this point user samples do not seem to support multisamples.

Originally Posted by jeffinpghpa
At the end of the day, I can't yet clearly summarize what this allows me to do that I can't do with my FA-07.

Well, it will have a different sound set. But in terms of other differences, it has aftertouch, touchscreen, metal build, better action, internal power supply, far greater number of real-time controls (including endless encoders with LED indicators, sliders with LED indicators, dedicated synth controls), analog filter, sophisticated Logic/Mainstage integration, full patch remain when switching among all sounds, a lot more rear panel connectivity, 2 GB sample space, more MIDI controller zone functions, motional pad to transition between sounds... that's what I see so far. ;-) Sequencer looks like it could be more capable, but I don't know much about that side of things.

Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
What happened to Roland being the value for your $ synth manufacturer? ouch.

Hmm. Well, they haven't had high-end models since they discontinued the Fantom G, but were their older Fantoms priced more aggressively than competitive Yamaha/Korg/Kurzweil workstations? I don't remember.

Originally Posted by rickzjamm
Also borrows from the Kronos (now almost everybody has jumped on the touch screen bandwagon & about time). Love Roland sounds & the configuration looks intuitive but it gained weight, not a gigging board.

The 61 is in the same range as a Kronos or Montage, and may be tolerable in the low 30s. But the 88 is for pros with roadies and backline companies. For the rest of us, I think it's likely to be a stay-at-home board. But I think that's largely true of the other 88 key flagships as well. Anyway, I'm glad it's heavy. Otherwise I might be tempted to buy one. ;-)

Originally Posted by EscapeRocks
Anyway, my initial though is.... I want one

They've finally come out with the kind of board you've been looking for!

Originally Posted by zephonic
I remember the Fantom X didn’t have audio recording at first, that was added with the 2.0 update. So adding multi-sampling with an update sounds possible to me.

They added multisampling to the Juno DS with its 2.0 update, too. The 2 GB of memory certainly supports it, they probably just need more time for the software.



Last edited by AnotherScott; 09/06/19 12:54 PM.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: stoken6] #3006783 09/06/19 01:14 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
Originally Posted by stoken6
Originally Posted by EscapeRocks
Originally Posted by SteveUK
3 USB sockets for external controllers looks pretty tasty 👍


I especially like this


I saw that. Yamaha P125 under a Fantom 6 or 7 is a sweet rig (assuming the organs are up to scratch) although a bit heavy for a top board.

Cheers, Mike.


I used to haul my Fantom X6 all over so I can deal.


David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Yamaha MODX6 |

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006800 09/06/19 03:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 253
N
Nathanael_I Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
N
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 253
I am looking for my next "main" board to support multi-sampling. Currently the Forte is leading. I intend to heavily sample sounds I've made in the studio for playing out, and so the Montage/Forte/Kronos seem to be the players in that space.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006816 09/06/19 07:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 370
BRW Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 370
The price is way off, but this has lots of good stuff in it. The V-Piano, the USB power ports, the impressive Logic / Mainstage integration and most importantly - a proper sequencer with three different approaches to it.

I think it's funny how much it really does look like the MONTAGE. And at least based on the Tibbs Guitar Center demo, there seems to be some sort of "motion sequencing" going on in the Fantom as well (although nowhere near that deep, it seems).

it's funny that now all the major three manufacturers are in a sense using the same "grid style" GUI. First the Kronos, then the MONTAGE and now this. And at least the latter two are also always in "performance mode" - although Roland has been doing it a bit longer, since the Jupiter-80 I think.

Hate the red stripe on the back!!

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: JimboKeys] #3006818 09/06/19 07:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 14
S
SteveUK Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 14
Originally Posted by JimboKeys
Originally Posted by EscapeRocks
Originally Posted by SteveUK
3 USB sockets for external controllers looks pretty tasty 👍

I especially like this

Doesn't mean that they will necessarily be class compliant - i wouldn't be surprised to find them to be specific to certain Roland products, same as the USB device connectors on the MX-1 mixer.

- Jimbo


The manual online is incomplete but it does say on the connections page: -

"EXT DEVICE jack (1, 2, 3) Connect these to an external USB device."

so there is hope...

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006819 09/06/19 07:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,279
Morizzle Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,279
It'll be interesting to see if the Fantom technology trickles down to some form of FA 06 successor.

Last edited by Morizzle; 09/06/19 08:34 AM.

Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 - Nord Stage 3 Compact - Nord Piano 4 - Crumar Mojo - Moog Little Phatty - Roland FA 06 - Yamaha U1 - Rhodes Mk1 73
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Morizzle] #3006822 09/06/19 08:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
Originally Posted by Morizzle
It'll be interesting to see if the Fantom technology trickles down to some form of FA 06 predecessor.


Of course it will. 18-24 months from now. And I assume you mean successor?

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006823 09/06/19 08:26 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 648
T
TomKittel Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
T
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 648
I like it a lot that they just surprise us with new instruments without any „coming soon“ teaser bullshit... watch this Kurzweil folks! Hope K’ will speed up their OS 4.0 release before I‘ll take a closer look to the new Forte rival.

Last edited by TomKittel; 09/06/19 08:32 AM.

Home: Yamaha N2, Kurzweil PC3X, Roland SE02, Alpha Juno 1/2, JX8P, Matrix 1000, DAW Studio One, Pianoteq, VB3 and too many VST instruments
Live: Forte 7, Nord Stage 3, KP500S, RCF TT08
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: zephonic] #3006824 09/06/19 08:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,279
Morizzle Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,279
Originally Posted by zephonic
Originally Posted by Morizzle
It'll be interesting to see if the Fantom technology trickles down to some form of FA 06 predecessor.


Of course it will. 18-24 months from now. And I assume you mean successor?


Oh yeah. Too early over here... facepalm


Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 - Nord Stage 3 Compact - Nord Piano 4 - Crumar Mojo - Moog Little Phatty - Roland FA 06 - Yamaha U1 - Rhodes Mk1 73
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006831 09/06/19 12:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,193
N4dr0j Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,193
I much preferred the FA to my MODX. I think I just like Roland. I love the red and the aluminium. If they’re electro mechanical sounds are up to scratch I can see myself GASing for it. Assuming you can run the organ out a separate output to put through a Lester K or something.


Nord E4 SW73
Yamaha MODX7
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006834 09/06/19 01:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,255
M
MotiDave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
M
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,255
My first board ever was a Roland, i’m emotionally attached to the brand - for some things that “Roland sound” is just great. This looks really sweet for function and capability - it also looks absolutely ginormous! Holy crap it looks huge in every direction possible. I didnt check weight specs, i assume its heavy too. I’d be a 7 customer so expecting in the 40 lb ballpark which means it needs (imo) a sturdy case so another 30-40 lbs for case.


The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006840 09/06/19 01:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 767
rickzjamm Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 767
Also seeing a lot of Dexibell approach in this (yes, Dexibell is a spawn of Roland alumni).


Plan your work & work your plan.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006849 09/06/19 02:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
Just checked the specs regarding weight.

The new Fantom 6 is 33lbs. The old Fantom G6 was 32lbs.

Also, I may be in very big trouble: The usual suspects have them in stock. Now. My wallet just went into hiding....


David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Yamaha MODX6 |

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006856 09/06/19 03:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 19
Konnector Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 19
This looks pretty awesome, except....I can't believe it doesn't have at least the multi-sampling ability of the Juno DS series. They added that feature later as an update for the DS line. That's all I ever wanted with the FA series, but of course they've never added it, so I've never bought one.

They're so close with this new Fantom. Looks like a great board, but typical of Roland it has a big WTF hovering over it.

Give us all the beans Roland. Not everyone wants to use this tied to a DAW or Mainstage. For the size, weight & price tag it should be fully capable of everything in a standalone setup.

Here's to hoping....again.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006857 09/06/19 03:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 767
rickzjamm Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 767
I was in the process of selling a couple of boards to buy... think I know the answer.


Plan your work & work your plan.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: zephonic] #3006859 09/06/19 03:47 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,035
drawback Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,035
Originally Posted by zephonic
Totally irrelevant, but my OCD hates how they use inconsistent typography for the product logo. Caps except for the n and m? I’m sure it’s intentional, because that’s not something that would slip through the cracks. Weird how only the FA seem intended as Caps, but the T and O are still caps even though they are slightly smaller. Or it’s like the FA are a different font, but that still doesn’t explain the mismatch of the nTOm.

The Montage aesthetic, yet again!

My OCD hates how they’ve never spelled phantom correctly.


Rod
Arturia Keylab MKii 88 | Mojo61 A/B | iConnectAudio4+ > iOS / MacOS
VI Ravenscroft | Neo-Soul Studio | Acoustic Samples V-Tines | iSymphonic | Pure Synth Platinum | iFretless Bass
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: SteveUK] #3006862 09/06/19 03:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,599
MAJUSCULE Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,599
Originally Posted by SteveUK
Originally Posted by JimboKeys
Originally Posted by EscapeRocks
Originally Posted by SteveUK
3 USB sockets for external controllers looks pretty tasty 👍

I especially like this

Doesn't mean that they will necessarily be class compliant - i wouldn't be surprised to find them to be specific to certain Roland products, same as the USB device connectors on the MX-1 mixer.

- Jimbo


The manual online is incomplete but it does say on the connections page: -

"EXT DEVICE jack (1, 2, 3) Connect these to an external USB device."

so there is hope...


The Anderton Music demo in the OP says all three are class-compliant and specifically mentions controlling the OP1 and Seaboard.


Eric
Website
Rhodes Mk 1 Stage 73; Hammond M3; Kurzweil SP-6; Roland FP-4, Juno-106; Nord E3-73; Studiologic Sledge; DSI Mopho KB; Moog Minitaur; Stuff
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Konnector] #3006872 09/06/19 04:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
Originally Posted by N4dr0j
Assuming you can run the organ out a separate output to put through a Lester K or something.

Yes, there are two stereo Sub Outs.

Originally Posted by Konnector
I can't believe it doesn't have at least the multi-sampling ability of the Juno DS series. They added that feature later as an update for the DS line. That's all I ever wanted with the FA series, but of course they've never added it, so I've never bought one.

It is a shame it never came to the FA. I'm guessing the hardware (i.e. sufficient usable rewritable flash) wasn't there to support it. (Though I had thought that maybe they could repurpose the memory for one of the two slots, giving users a choice as to whether to use that memory for a second expansion or custom samples.) Anyway, the Fantom has 2 GB, so I'd be surprised if we didn't see the multisampling added down the road.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006874 09/06/19 05:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 767
rickzjamm Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 767
And I'm sure the Axial toolbox will bring some nice organs, brass etc. in the future. Roland's been pretty good about freebie sounds & OS updates.


Plan your work & work your plan.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: AnotherScott] #3006882 09/06/19 05:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 19
Konnector Offline
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by Konnector
I can't believe it doesn't have at least the multi-sampling ability of the Juno DS series. They added that feature later as an update for the DS line. That's all I ever wanted with the FA series, but of course they've never added it, so I've never bought one.

Originally Posted by AnotherScott
It is a shame it never came to the FA. I'm guessing the hardware (i.e. sufficient usable rewritable flash) wasn't there to support it. (Though I had thought that maybe they could repurpose the memory for one of the two slots, giving users a choice as to whether to use that memory for a second expansion or custom samples.) Anyway, the Fantom has 2 GB, so I'd be surprised if we didn't see the multisampling added down the road.


Here's to hoping they add multi-sampling down the road. Re-purposing the FA memory like you suggested (if that's possible) would be a great upgrade to the FA as well. I could live with that if they ever implemented that into the FA. The DS falls short in some areas for me, so it's not really an option. I do have a couple of ASR-10's which can handle any multi-samples I would want to use in a live situation, but ASR-10s are tanks. Best left at home. The FA still has potential, (especially the size and weight) but it's not quite there. Too bad. I know there's other options out there, but I prefer the Roland sound set in general over Yamaha & Korg, etc.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Konnector] #3006889 09/06/19 06:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
Originally Posted by Konnector
Here's to hoping they add multi-sampling down the road. Re-purposing the FA memory like you suggested (if that's possible) would be a great upgrade to the FA as well. I could live with that if they ever implemented that into the FA. The DS falls short in some areas for me, so it's not really an option. I do have a couple of ASR-10's which can handle any multi-samples I would want to use in a live situation, but ASR-10s are tanks. Best left at home. The FA still has potential, (especially the size and weight) but it's not quite there. Too bad. I know there's other options out there, but I prefer the Roland sound set in general over Yamaha & Korg, etc.

Another solution would be to connect an iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch to the Roland FA and run an app like BS-16i for your multisamples. That wasn't so practical at first, but with the 2.0 update to the FA that improved its MIDI Master Controller functionality, it would probably work well. And it's a dirt cheap add-on if you happen to already own the i-device!


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006890 09/06/19 06:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
wild idea. Fantom has all those USB connectors.

Could there be some kind of new device that contains and manages the heavy processing requirements of multi sampling ?

I am not much for wishful thinking. But this alternative occurred to me

In the past, there was lots of talk about making keyboards modular.

Since one size does not fit all. Thats my way of saying ' you have your requirements, I have mine '.

I don't believe us keyboard musicians are cookie cutter. I am thinking versatile device via USB
which would require more OS

Last edited by GregC; 09/06/19 06:30 PM.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: drawback] #3006891 09/06/19 06:27 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,364
S
stoken6 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
S
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,364
Originally Posted by drawback
My OCD hates how they’ve never spelled phantom correctly.


Paging Mr Vox. That's Mr Vox to the trademark registration desk, please.
[Linked Image from 58eca9fdf76150b92bfa-3586c28d09a33a8c605ed79290ca82aa.ssl.cf3.rackcdn.com]
Cheers, Mike.


AX48.PM351.FC7.VFP2
One or two keyboards.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Morizzle] #3006894 09/06/19 06:28 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,364
S
stoken6 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
S
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,364
Originally Posted by drawback
My OCD hates how they’ve never spelled phantom correctly.


Paging Mr Vox. That's Mr Vox to the trademark registration desk, please.

Cheers, Mike.[quote=Morizzle]


AX48.PM351.FC7.VFP2
One or two keyboards.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Morizzle] #3006895 09/06/19 06:29 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,364
S
stoken6 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
S
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,364
Originally Posted by Morizzle
It'll be interesting to see if the Fantom technology trickles down to some form of FA 06 successor.
Highly likely, and probably without the premium action, aftertouch and internal PSU. Might even lose the MIDI sockets, the way things are going.

Cheers, Mike.


AX48.PM351.FC7.VFP2
One or two keyboards.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006919 09/06/19 08:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
A dude from Germany on Gearslutz says he tried the new Fantoms at the store and the synth actions are noisy but the 88 is fine.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006925 09/06/19 08:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,599
MAJUSCULE Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,599
I don't mind it being noisy if it feels good... but that's likely not a good sign.

All good, I won't be able to afford one anytime soon anyway wave


Eric
Website
Rhodes Mk 1 Stage 73; Hammond M3; Kurzweil SP-6; Roland FP-4, Juno-106; Nord E3-73; Studiologic Sledge; DSI Mopho KB; Moog Minitaur; Stuff
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006935 09/06/19 09:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,279
Morizzle Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,279
Well, we should be careful with what dudes from Germany say...


Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 - Nord Stage 3 Compact - Nord Piano 4 - Crumar Mojo - Moog Little Phatty - Roland FA 06 - Yamaha U1 - Rhodes Mk1 73
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006941 09/06/19 10:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
I don't believe this is front page news.

There are numerous folks that will spend $3999 on the Fantom.

The first month, and likely later, the Fantom will sell like cupcakes in the morning.

For $3999. or whatever the price is of the other key size Fantom.

The early buyers have no problem putting the purchase on a credit card.
Or pay cash.

Kronos was the same way. 6 month Preorders. Rapid sales. I think this went on for
most of 2011.

Roland knows the Fantom will sell quickly. The dealers know this.

At some point, the rush hour will lessen. It might be some time.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006942 09/06/19 10:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
CEB Online Content
10k Club
Online Content
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
If the action is noisy then you need to play louder.


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: stoken6] #3006955 09/06/19 11:04 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,035
drawback Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,035
Originally Posted by stoken6
Paging Mr Vox. That's Mr Vox to the trademark registration desk, please.


My post was a stooges but I'll try to remember some folks require smileys and winkies.

OOPS... smile wink

Last edited by drawback; 09/06/19 11:05 PM.

Rod
Arturia Keylab MKii 88 | Mojo61 A/B | iConnectAudio4+ > iOS / MacOS
VI Ravenscroft | Neo-Soul Studio | Acoustic Samples V-Tines | iSymphonic | Pure Synth Platinum | iFretless Bass
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006967 09/07/19 12:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
I got to play the new 6 at GC.

Report tomorrow after I go back. I was there to get some cables for a gig and saw it. So I had to play it.

Feels just as good, if not a little more solid than my long gone X6.

I’m going back tomorrow to really dig in.


David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Yamaha MODX6 |

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006968 09/07/19 12:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
CEB Online Content
10k Club
Online Content
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
Just thinking. I need to download the manual I guess.

So when Roland says no more Modes are there still song files or are sequences stored to scenes? Can you load one shot samples to the pads still like the FA. If so, will this be saved to a song file or a scene. Or... Would I have to save my samples to every scene or just load a song file with my one shots and run it in conjunction with whatever scene I want.

Last edited by CEB; 09/07/19 12:45 AM.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: CEB] #3006970 09/07/19 01:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,255
M
MotiDave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
M
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,255
Originally Posted by CEB
If the action is noisy then you need to play louder.

Exactly. I haven’t heard a single key in 9 years...


The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: MotiDave] #3006974 09/07/19 01:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
Originally Posted by MotiDave
Originally Posted by CEB
If the action is noisy then you need to play louder.

Exactly. I haven’t heard a single key in 9 years...


could be ear wax. I can tell you about mine. Have photos, etc wink

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: stoken6] #3006980 09/07/19 02:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,498
David Emm Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,498
Originally Posted by stoken6
Interesting that Roland think they can turn a profit with a new workstation.

Cheers, Mike.


They must, or these wouldn't have appeared, especially the 76-key model. Also note the similarities to the MODX, which seems like a natural progression in overall higher-end synth design. You're getting more synth for the money because those resources aren't being expended on a full-blown sequencer. It makes no sense to compete with Ableton or Logic in hardware form, but being able to speak to either one readily was clearly on the design team's feature list. I'll be patient until any possible OS funkiness is revealed by early users, but its easy to have some GAS over it. I always preferred workstations because it felt pianistic to have it all in one place. Same with Logic and a controller now. Its easy to see this in Phantom of the Opera mode with a couple of your outside hardware favorites as modules.

Quick question: what percentage of new Fantom buyers will be in the mid-range, going in hock for it as their big kahuna and only buying lesser gear (if any!) for X number of months/years until the bank is paid off? grin


Bill Champlin: "I'd like to run the last 20 years of my life through auto-correct." David Foster: "Yeah and quantize it to the nearest three commandments."

https://soundcloud.com/david-emm-1
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3006983 09/07/19 03:07 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,934
ProfD Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,934
Before picking up my brand new Roland FA-07 today, I figured it only made sense to lay hands on the new Fantom.

Therein lies the beauty of living in the DC area which is home to the best brick and mortar music store in the world...Washington Music Center aka Chuck's or Chuck Levins. That store has everything. grin

As mentioned, some advantages of the new Fantom over the FA are KB action, metal build, synth section, Ableton like workflow, Scenes, V-Piano modeling, audio interface and computer integration.

None of the Fantom advantages were enough to sway me but I can definitely see how the Fantom will be a hit. I can see it replacing a couple pieces in some KB rigs.

IMO, the way Roland brought the new Fantom to market was brilliant too. cool


PD

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: ProfD] #3007000 09/07/19 07:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
Don't get me wrong, I totally understand that the new Fantom isn't necessarily all that impressive if you haven't been longing for one the way I have.

It just has the features I've been missing since I retired my Fantom X7 from gigging three years ago. A nice 76-key action with aftertouch and my preferred pitch/mod stick. Would I rather have it cheaper? Sure. But the lack of connection I have had with my keyboards over the last few years hasn't been worth the money I saved.

So I'm willing to take a hit if it brings a little more enjoyment to my gigs.

Originally Posted by ProfD

IMO, the way Roland brought the new Fantom to market was brilliant too. cool


If you mean this came totally out of the blue, then yes. I had absolutely no idea they were gonna come back, thought they were done with the high-end market.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Morizzle] #3007002 09/07/19 08:54 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 648
T
TomKittel Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
T
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 648
Originally Posted by Morizzle
Well, we should be careful with what dudes from Germany say...

Who you mean? Your president who's got German roots?

;-)

Last edited by TomKittel; 09/07/19 08:57 AM.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: TomKittel] #3007004 09/07/19 09:44 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,625
A
Al Coda Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
A
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,625
Originally Posted by TomKittel
Originally Posted by Morizzle
Well, we should be careful with what dudes from Germany say...

Who you mean? Your president who's got German roots?

;-)


Isn´t Morizzle a german himself ?

confused

A.C.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: TomKittel] #3007005 09/07/19 09:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,279
Morizzle Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,279
Originally Posted by TomKittel
Originally Posted by Morizzle
Well, we should be careful with what dudes from Germany say...

Who you mean? Your president who's got German roots?

;-)


My president's got German roots 'cause I'm from Germany as well, Tom wink


Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 - Nord Stage 3 Compact - Nord Piano 4 - Crumar Mojo - Moog Little Phatty - Roland FA 06 - Yamaha U1 - Rhodes Mk1 73
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Al Coda] #3007006 09/07/19 09:48 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,654
RudyS Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,654
Originally Posted by Al Coda


Isn´t Morizzle a german himself ?

confused

A.C.

Yup, that’s the joke!


Rudy

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007007 09/07/19 10:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,654
RudyS Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,654
Btw, am I the only one who doesn’t really see the point of XLR outs, without a DI function? On FOH types of gigs I use the 1/4 cables to go into a DI. On small gigs with only an amp and no long cables I go with a 1/4” cables in my monitor/amp. Am I missing something?

confused


Rudy

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007009 09/07/19 11:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
I think the idea is that the XLR outs negate the need for DI boxes.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: zephonic] #3007010 09/07/19 11:28 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,934
ProfD Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,934
Originally Posted by zephonic
Don't get me wrong, I totally understand that the new Fantom isn't necessarily all that impressive if you haven't been longing for one the way I have.

It just has the features I've been missing since I retired my Fantom X7 from gigging three years ago. A nice 76-key action with aftertouch and my preferred pitch/mod stick. Would I rather have it cheaper? Sure. But the lack of connection I have had with my keyboards over the last few years hasn't been worth the money I saved.

So I'm willing to take a hit if it brings a little more enjoyment to my gigs.

I had absolutely no idea they were gonna come back, thought they were done with the high-end market.

Brotha Z, the new Fantom has your name written all over it. thu

Go ahead with the fire sale of KBs that have been standing in for the real deal. grin cool


PD

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007013 09/07/19 12:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,279
Morizzle Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,279
Ok, I finally watched parts of the videos in the OP. I'm not gonna get a Fantom, as I'm not at all in the market for a workstation.

What I really, really like about it though, is the visualization of synth parameters on the screen. I already dug what the Korg Minilogues did on the tiny OLED displaying the waveform, but this is one more step in the right direction, I think. I was really struggling with synths (I had like three different versions of the Nord Lead that I sold cause I couldn't connect with it), and interactive screens that show what you are actually doing with waveforms, LFOs and other stuff are really motivating for me! I hope we see lots more of these in the near future!


Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 - Nord Stage 3 Compact - Nord Piano 4 - Crumar Mojo - Moog Little Phatty - Roland FA 06 - Yamaha U1 - Rhodes Mk1 73
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007015 09/07/19 12:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 259
Fleer Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 259
Since I’m a bottoms man, anyone know what’s underneath this fine machine? MDF hardboard like the Montage or metal?

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: zephonic] #3007021 09/07/19 12:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,654
RudyS Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,654
Originally Posted by zephonic
I think the idea is that the XLR outs negate the need for DI boxes.


I understand that, then the outputs should be isolated with a transformer, which I don’t think is the case. Therefor running the xlr’s out would be too much risk for me personally.


Rudy

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007025 09/07/19 02:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,323
R
Reezekeys Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
R
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,323
Maybe the purpose of the XLRs is for convenience in a recording studio? I agree that you'd want to use DIs on a live gig if you're going to a PA, not only for isolation but to have the ability to lift the ground if there's a problem there. If you're not going to a PA, just personal amplification, 1/4" connections are fine.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: zephonic] #3007031 09/07/19 02:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 83
J
John64 Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
J
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by zephonic
A dude from Germany on Gearslutz says he tried the new Fantoms at the store and the synth actions are noisy but the 88 is fine.

It looks like that guy was not exaggerating, just check out this clip from Thomann and listen for a minute or so from the 4:50 mark.
The mic picks up the sound of the keybed, and you really have to crank up the volume of the Fantom in order to drown out the noise of the keybed.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Morizzle] #3007033 09/07/19 02:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
Originally Posted by stoken6
Originally Posted by Morizzle
It'll be interesting to see if the Fantom technology trickles down to some form of FA 06 successor.
Highly likely, and probably without the premium action, aftertouch and internal PSU. Might even lose the MIDI sockets, the way things are going.

Yeah, in this case, I'm not really wishing for a scaled down version, because as much as I'd be theoretically interested if there were a lightweight derivative, I think they would almost certainly end up taking away all the stuff I care about. I could live with a Jupiter 50 action (the last good feeling action they had in a lightweight board), and I'm fine without metal chassis, XLR outs, internal power supply, and some of the other high end attributes... but I suspect many of the best things about this (to me) would disappear, since so much of the appeal of this to me is its control surface (the full battery of panel controls including dedicated synth controls, and endless encoders and sliders with LEDs), and also the full patch remain, aftertouch, maybe the V-Piano.... all stuff I could easily envision hitting the chopping block. I guess I'd go the opposite way of what is typically done... take out most or all of the sounds, put in in a light chassis (still with a quality action), and market it mostly as a high end DAW+MIDI controller. THAT would interest me!

Originally Posted by zephonic
I totally understand that the new Fantom isn't necessarily all that impressive if you haven't been longing for one the way I have.

Yeah... not for me, but it's nice to see something new coming out for folks like you and EscapeRocks. So many of us really go for just the lightweight stuff, but there's still a market for top quality too, and yeah, Roland's been missed in that category for a while. I hope they do well with it (and the Jupiter).

Originally Posted by zephonic
But the lack of connection I have had with my keyboards over the last few years hasn't been worth the money I saved.

I've also been moving lately back to "connection" even at the expense of sounds/features. (Can't get it all at an acceptable travel weight for me, regardless of cost.) Today my travel 88 is again my old reliable Casio PX-500L circa 2005, because despite its limitations, I just love playing it. (But I'm still looking forward to the potential of the PC4... what can I see, I'm an addict.)

Originally Posted by Morizzle
I was really struggling with synths (I had like three different versions of the Nord Lead that I sold cause I couldn't connect with it)

Did you ever try the Nord Lead 3? That's the magic one for me, because of the endless encoders and LED rings. Nothing else with presets can give you that immediacy, of every knob always being "right."

Originally Posted by Morizzle
interactive screens that show what you are actually doing with waveforms, LFOs and other stuff are really motivating for me! I hope we see lots more of these in the near future!

Have you checked out the thread on the Hydrasynth?


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Fleer] #3007039 09/07/19 03:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
Originally Posted by Fleer
Since I’m a bottoms man, anyone know what’s underneath this fine machine? MDF hardboard like the Montage or metal?


I didn't look last night at GC.. I will today. However, given the weight, and if it's like the previous Fantoms, it will be metal


David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Yamaha MODX6 |

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: zephonic] #3007041 09/07/19 03:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
Originally Posted by zephonic
Don't get me wrong, I totally understand that the new Fantom isn't necessarily all that impressive if you haven't been longing for one the way I have.

It just has the features I've been missing since I retired my Fantom X7 from gigging three years ago. A nice 76-key action with aftertouch and my preferred pitch/mod stick. Would I rather have it cheaper? Sure. But the lack of connection I have had with my keyboards over the last few years hasn't been worth the money I saved.

So I'm willing to take a hit if it brings a little more enjoyment to my gigs.
If you mean this came totally out of the blue, then yes. I had absolutely no idea they were gonna come back, thought they were done with the high-end market.


like

Thank you for articulating my thoughts. I don't have to type so much now smile


David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Yamaha MODX6 |

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007068 09/07/19 08:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,822
Moonglow Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,822
Reading the manual, I’m having a hard time understanding how the keyboard can be split. In the “Zone” section, the manual says:

“This is a container for playing a tone. To play a tone, you assign it to a zone. For each zone, you can specify whether it is connected to the keyboard, and make settings such as its key range, volume, pan, and controller reception. There are 16 zones; by combining zones you can create sounds that consist of multiple tones, or create foundational performance (sound) settings for each song. You can also use specific zones to control an external sound module (EXT ZONE) instead of the internal sound engine.”

However, in the “Performing” section of the manual, only one assignable split point is referenced:

Dividing the Keyboard into Two Regions (Split)
1. Press the [SPLIT] button to make it light.
The high region plays the zone 1 tone, and the low region plays the zone 4 tone.
2. To cancel split, press the [SPLIT] button to make it go dark. When you cancel split, the high and low regions (KEY RANGE) are reset, and return to the layer state.

There has to be a way to achieve more than one split point on an axe of this caliber, right? Anyone here fluent in Roland-speak?


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."
- George Bernard Shaw
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007071 09/07/19 08:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 14
S
SteveUK Offline
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 14
This is a guess of course as not touched the board but I imagine the split button is for making a quick two zone split in a live performance situation. Back in the day the XV88 has a one touch piano button for configuring the keyboard in a piano mode for live playing. I guess it’s something like this.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007072 09/07/19 08:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
My Roland vocab dates back to the days when they simply had patches, performances and parts. It used to be Tone<Patch<Performance, but with the introduction of the Jupiter 80 that changed where a Patch was suddenly a Liveset, and a Performance became a Registration.

It looks like the Zone is a hybrid of what used to be a Patch/Liveset and Performance/Registration, while a Scene is like a supra-Registration.

Maybe they change it up every generation just to keep us on our toes.

My guess is your basic building block for splits is the Zone/Scene, but I suppose they added Regions for quick splits á la Nord.

I could be wrong, though.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: SteveUK] #3007075 09/07/19 08:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,095
J
jerrythek Offline
MPN Advisory Board
Platinum Member
Offline
MPN Advisory Board
Platinum Member
J
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,095
Originally Posted by SteveUK
This is a guess of course as not touched the board but I imagine the split button is for making a quick two zone split in a live performance situation. Back in the day the XV88 has a one touch piano button for configuring the keyboard in a piano mode for live playing. I guess it’s something like this.



This, Im sure. Korg did the same thing, a quick button to make a basic split/layer, while the more advanced stuff was still available deeper in the menus/structure.

Jerry

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007085 09/07/19 09:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
CEB Online Content
10k Club
Online Content
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
Surely ..... each zone can specify a key range creating bunches of split points. The ‘split’ function is just a quick split button.


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007089 09/07/19 09:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 141
J
JimboKeys Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
J
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 141
Sounds similar to the FA08 - Split button gives you two parts; if you want more than that you create a Studio Set for up to 16 parts.

- Jimbo


"It's called an expression pedal for a reason: It's not a volume pedal." -- Dr. Lonnie Smith
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007090 09/07/19 09:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
CEB Online Content
10k Club
Online Content
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
Manual is not much help for what I need to know about File Management and sample implementation.


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: zephonic] #3007092 09/07/19 10:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,822
Moonglow Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,822
Thanks for the input on the split function, good to know!
Originally Posted by zephonic
It looks like the Zone is a hybrid of what used to be a Patch/Liveset and Performance/Registration, while a Scene is like a supra-Registration.
In terms of Korg Kronos equivalents, it seems that a Scene is analogous to a Setlist slot, a Zone is like a Combi, and a Tone is like a Patch.

Specs say the machine has “Over 3500 Tones.” I wonder how many Scenes and Zones are available?

Found it: “128 Scenes x 4 Bank”

Presumably each Scene can hold up to 16 Zones.

Last edited by Moonglow; 09/08/19 01:51 AM.

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."
- George Bernard Shaw
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007104 09/08/19 01:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
CEB Online Content
10k Club
Online Content
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
FYI, FWIW.... Scott Berry from Roland just told the sampler is completely separate from everything else so I can load sampler banks and have them be static while I change scenes. To have to assign samples for every scene would have been a lot more work.


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007112 09/08/19 05:19 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: CEB] #3007116 09/08/19 07:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 70
M
mojkarma Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
M
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by CEB
Manual is not much help for what I need to know about File Management and sample implementation.


No progress here from Roland. File management consists of two instructions: backup and restore. That's it. Backup saves all, restore loads all. For some reason it's still all or nothing. That means, no possibility to load individual patches or banks from other users or third parties.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: mojkarma] #3007124 09/08/19 11:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,299
Synthoid Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,299
Originally Posted by mojkarma
Backup saves all, restore loads all. For some reason it's still all or nothing. That means, no possibility to load individual patches or banks from other users or third parties.


[Linked Image from sadanduseless.b-cdn.net]



When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: EscapeRocks] #3007129 09/08/19 01:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 259
Fleer Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 259
Originally Posted by EscapeRocks
Originally Posted by Fleer
Since I’m a bottoms man, anyone know what’s underneath this fine machine? MDF hardboard like the Montage or metal?


I didn't look last night at GC.. I will today. However, given the weight, and if it's like the previous Fantoms, it will be metal

Thanks, looking forward to your hands on report.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: jerrythek] #3007138 09/08/19 03:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
Originally Posted by jerrythek
This, Im sure. Korg did the same thing, a quick button to make a basic split/layer, while the more advanced stuff was still available deeper in the menus/structure.
Roland's Juno DS is the same way.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: AnotherScott] #3007145 09/08/19 04:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 252
L
LarsHarner Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
L
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 252
I wonder if Korg will counter with something in 2020? I am tempted to get a Kronos but feel as soon as I would get one they would upgrade.
I use the Krome but more for writing and as an interface into my computer.

Roland mentions this will interface with DAW's? How so, will it allow one to start/stop the DAW througn the roland itself?

I'm looking for better workflow. It just feels so unnatural having the keyboard connected right next to the PC - I do like the vst's, being able to change effects and mastering.
Does anyone have any suggestions in the meantime?

I'm trying to figure out what is driving this Fantom to a Kronos price.

Although the Juno Gi I had for several years did not have great sounds, it had a built in 8 track digital recorder with 4 sliders, preamps and various effects and I could do a simple master on it.

Although my current setup with the VST's and Steinberg interface (better preamps) yields better sounds, it is sometimes tedious.


Therefore, its a little hard for me to get totally excited about the Fantom when essentially I still need a computer- perhaps one can export tracks into a DAW as that would be beneficial.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: LarsHarner] #3007148 09/08/19 05:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,047
W
wd8dky Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
W
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,047
Originally Posted by LarsHarner


Roland mentions this will interface with DAW's? How so, will it allow one to start/stop the DAW througn the roland itself?



There are some pretty good videos on YouTube. One of them demonstrates the control, of Logic if I remember correctly.

Last edited by wd8dky; 09/08/19 05:30 PM.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: wd8dky] #3007153 09/08/19 07:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 252
L
LarsHarner Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
L
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 252
Originally Posted by wd8dky
Originally Posted by LarsHarner


Roland mentions this will interface with DAW's? How so, will it allow one to start/stop the DAW througn the roland itself?



There are some pretty good videos on YouTube. One of them demonstrates the control, of Logic if I remember correctly.


Thanks- I'll look for it. Currently I am using Mixcraft and can use my tablet next to the keyboard to control stop/start and some other minor things but am looking from something more seamless and this ROland sounds like it has some possibilities

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: LarsHarner] #3007154 09/08/19 07:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
Originally Posted by LarsHarner
I wonder if Korg will counter with something in 2020? I am tempted to get a Kronos but feel as soon as I would get one they would upgrade.
I use the Krome but more for writing and as an interface into my computer.

Roland mentions this will interface with DAW's? How so, will it allow one to start/stop the DAW througn the roland itself?

I'm looking for better workflow. It just feels so unnatural having the keyboard connected right next to the PC - I do like the vst's, being able to change effects and mastering.
Does anyone have any suggestions in the meantime?

I'm trying to figure out what is driving this Fantom to a Kronos price.

Although the Juno Gi I had for several years did not have great sounds, it had a built in 8 track digital recorder with 4 sliders, preamps and various effects and I could do a simple master on it.

Although my current setup with the VST's and Steinberg interface (better preamps) yields better sounds, it is sometimes tedious.


Therefore, its a little hard for me to get totally excited about the Fantom when essentially I still need a computer- perhaps one can export tracks into a DAW as that would be beneficial.


We are kicking this around on the Korg forum- news and Kronos sub forums

It takes some time to study the Roland videos- which are impressive. The Scott Tibbs youTubes are must watches
to get some Fantom knowledge.

I think Kronos and Fantom are mostly different beasts.

More differences than similarities. Most definitely different development direction

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007157 09/08/19 08:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 767
rickzjamm Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 767
Roland hasn't priced their boards like this in a long time, must be more under the hood yet to be revealed,


Plan your work & work your plan.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: GregC] #3007160 09/08/19 08:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
Originally Posted by LarsHarner
Roland mentions this will interface with DAW's? How so, will it allow one to start/stop the DAW througn the roland itself?

Start/stop just requires transport controls, which even the DS and FA have. This does much more. Check out this video starting at about 21 minutes in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELYQKUdIayg

(I was going to include the video, but for some reason it came in giant-sized.)

Originally Posted by LarsHarner
I'm trying to figure out what is driving this Fantom to a Kronos price.

I'd at least say the control surface is way better than the Kronos, with the endless encoders, LED indicators, dedicated synth controls.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: AnotherScott] #3007165 09/08/19 09:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,498
David Emm Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,498
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by LarsHarner
Roland mentions this will interface with DAW's? How so, will it allow one to start/stop the DAW througn the roland itself?

Start/stop just requires transport controls, which even the DS and FA have. This does much more. Check out this video starting at about 21 minutes in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELYQKUdIayg

(I was going to include the video, but for some reason it came in giant-sized.)

Originally Posted by LarsHarner
I'm trying to figure out what is driving this Fantom to a Kronos price.

I'd at least say the control surface is way better than the Kronos, with the endless encoders, LED indicators, dedicated synth controls.


There is a certain pie chart to be found any time a new flagship or flagship-ette appears, especially in an increasingly DAW-equipped world. I think the smallest group is really the one that still prefers onboard sequencers, despite the subjective hassle of bending over even a generous display. The next is clearly growing the fastest, where instruments are increasingly CV- and DAW-ready without possessing much more than a step-sequencer as hardware. The third is the lightly insane who will like this Fantom as a major controller and use its generous Out jacks to build a synth pipe-organ. Everything you get onboard plus the means to talk to modulars and tabletops is a big draw. Last, a few brave souls who are drawn to Nords, but also like the form factor and the Roland sound. The drawbars seem to be done right and it has a bit of SN piano DNA, so its likely to become the go-to for a few big-handed players who like it all in one box. I'm curious about how capable the synth section is, but I don't expect Serum in a box. Still TBD.


Bill Champlin: "I'd like to run the last 20 years of my life through auto-correct." David Foster: "Yeah and quantize it to the nearest three commandments."

https://soundcloud.com/david-emm-1
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007168 09/08/19 09:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729

Fantom is a much different beast than Montage or Kronos.

I understand many see this as a battle of " who gets my $4000 ? "

For the next 3-6 months, the $4000 price will not discourage. Here is why.
Or my prediction.

The price will not be a problem for the music studios and early adopters.

Simply, there are many folks that have the cash and credit and have no problem with $4000 on an interesting new w/s.

Then, we will see name performers with the Fantom.

In 6 months or less , there will be a bunch of " Oh. OIC now ".

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: David Emm] #3007169 09/08/19 09:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
Originally Posted by David Emm
The drawbars seem to be done right and it has a bit of SN piano DNA, so its likely to become the go-to for a few big-handed players who like it all in one box. I'm curious about how capable the synth section is, but I don't expect Serum in a box. Still TBD.

I'm curious about the drawbar implementation. There are only 8 standard sliders, and a ninth appears to be for USB audio. Maybe that also functions as a 9th drawbar?


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007173 09/08/19 09:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 42
X
xp50player Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
X
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 42
Scene = 16 zone(part) multi, layered/split/multichannel, whatever. Also contains patterns/groups/song. No samples or sample kits stored here. Scenes are also used as Menus of single instrument variations.

Zone = 1 part in a Scene containing 1 Tone and settings for key range/channel/level etc, or external MIDI device

Tone = A Zen-Core(PCM+VA), V-piano(zone 1 only) or drumkit patch.

Zen-Core Tones are 4 Partial(osc with independent synthesis path), and partial osc can be VA or PCM. There are alternate patch structures with pairs of osc intermodulated (Sync/Ring/Xmod). One MFX is stored with the Tone, but there are up to 4-stage effects algorithms.

There has been this “mode-less concept” hype, but there is in fact a Single Tone button that takes you to V-Piano initially, but doing so wipes out your Scene edit buffer.

The only Setlist equivalent is the Scene Chain function, but it is pretty minimal, just an adjustable order of scenes. You can also set combinations of zones within a Scene and select them from the pads.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: AnotherScott] #3007195 09/08/19 11:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by David Emm
The drawbars seem to be done right and it has a bit of SN piano DNA, so its likely to become the go-to for a few big-handed players who like it all in one box. I'm curious about how capable the synth section is, but I don't expect Serum in a box. Still TBD.

I'm curious about the drawbar implementation. There are only 8 standard sliders, and a ninth appears to be for USB audio. Maybe that also functions as a 9th drawbar?


I find this curious. Noting that some keyboard musicians are going thru their " does it tick all the boxes " process

Do you really believe Fantom is going to handle your cover band responsibilities ?

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: GregC] #3007204 09/09/19 12:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
Originally Posted by GregC
Do you really believe Fantom is going to handle your cover band responsibilities ?


Personally, no... because (a) it's over my weight limit, and (b) I'm generally a multi-board guy and not likely to need a single do-everything board. But it seems a lot of people do look for an all-in-one, and the Fantom potentially looks about as capable as anything else out there for filling that role.

There aren't too many boards out there with sliders you could dedicate for organ while also giving you simultaneous access to a set of dedicated knobby synth functions. Nord Stage 3 is the only one I can think of, so if there is 9-drawbar support here, it could compete there. Some others come close. Kronos gives you 9 sliders you could use for organ and 8 knobs you could define for synth, but that synth control is not as good as Fantom's, and then leaves you no more for effects. The forthcoming Kurzweil PC4 looks similar.
Roland VR09/730, Numa Compact 2X, and Vox Continental don't give the controls to you simultaneously, but they do automatically repurpose at least some of the 9 drawbar controls to functions as common synth controls, that's something, and they have some separate dedicated effects controls. But if the organ support is there, Fantom looks like the closest NS3 competitor, with a lot more functionality, but at much higher weight. One place Nord still has an edge is in the battery of dedicated effects controls. On the Roland, it looks like you'd have to program some other knob assignment to do that... but there are enough knobs that it looks like you could do a decent job at it, since all those knobs above the sliders don't have to do synth functions. Plus the controls have the LEDs. And Roland also has the trigger pads that Nord doesn't have.

So I'd turn the question around... *IF* you wanted to handle your cover band responsibilities with one board (as many people do), is there any reason you think the Fantom is NOT likely to be a good choice for that? And which other boards would be better suited for that? Functionally, if it were lighter, I could easily see the Fantom being my choice, if that were my goal.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: xp50player] #3007205 09/09/19 12:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
Originally Posted by xp50player



There has been this “mode-less concept” hype, but there is in fact a Single Tone button that takes you to V-Piano initially, but doing so wipes out your Scene edit buffer.


That is very much like my Fantom X6. No matter what mode you were in you could push the “piano” button, and it would take you to the pianos.

I’m used to a mode-less concept since I’ve gotten my Yamaha MODX.

I see the new Fantom like this : like the X and G, its not for the lazy. Sure, you can take it out of the box and play it as is. To realize the potential, you have to take time and learn. I’ve had my MODX for several months now, and I’m still learning and discovering how deep it really is.

What I have learned so far, with my hands on demo, is that it takes the best of what the previous Fantom X and G had, and adds things they’ve learned.

With the touch screen and the way it interacts with programming lets you get into the depths.

Having the 3 class compliant USB is huge. My full report later on that. Let’s just say I plugged a USB controller in and played sounds from the Fantom.

All of the I/O connectivity is great to have.

Etc. etc.

Are these new boards for everyone? Of course not.

As far as price? It’s right in line with other top line workstations.

10 years ago The G6 was around 2,999.

I still haven’t decided if I will get it.


David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Yamaha MODX6 |

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: AnotherScott] #3007213 09/09/19 01:45 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by GregC
Do you really believe Fantom is going to handle your cover band responsibilities ?


Personally, no... because (a) it's over my weight limit, and (b) I'm generally a multi-board guy and not likely to need a single do-everything board. But it seems a lot of people do look for an all-in-one, and the Fantom potentially looks about as capable as anything else out there for filling that role.


So I'd turn the question around... *IF* you wanted to handle your cover band responsibilities with one board (as many people do), is there any reason you think the Fantom is NOT likely to be a good choice for that? And which other boards would be better suited for that? Functionally, if it were lighter, I could easily see the Fantom being my choice, if that were my goal.


I think thats a the ' right question '.

Here's my point. This new Fantom is well above the rompler needs of doing cover material.

If I am spending $4000 on a keyboard, I am going to mine its potential. And when I watch these demos
I am impressed - that it is providing tools for a fresh break out keyboard sound.

IOW, Fantom is a board that will take the musician into a new direction.

It is much different than Kronos and Montage- I see many comparing it to these
older work stations. I think Fantom as the keyboard as a contemporary
or next generation music production tool.

I think Fantom is testing preconceptions in a way. I like that boldness.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: GregC] #3007214 09/09/19 02:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
Originally Posted by GregC
Here's my point. This new Fantom is well above the rompler needs of doing cover material.

If I am spending $4000 on a keyboard, I am going to mine its potential. And when I watch these demos
I am impressed - that it is providing tools for a fresh break out keyboard sound.

IOW, Fantom is a board that will take the musician into a new direction.

It is much different than Kronos and Montage- I see many comparing it to these
older work stations. I think Fantom as the keyboard as a contemporary
or next generation music production tool.

I think Fantom is testing preconceptions in a way. I like that boldness.

Good points. But even using it "merely" as a tool for a cover band, I find it appealing. In sounds and features it may be above what is needed, but I am drawn to all the real-time control, both for the ease of setting up sounds in advance, and for live tweaking in performance. Again, similar to the NS3 in that respect, and similarly not an inexpensive board but still one with high appeal.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: AnotherScott] #3007218 09/09/19 02:17 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by GregC
Here's my point. This new Fantom is well above the rompler needs of doing cover material.

If I am spending $4000 on a keyboard, I am going to mine its potential. And when I watch these demos
I am impressed - that it is providing tools for a fresh break out keyboard sound.

IOW, Fantom is a board that will take the musician into a new direction.

It is much different than Kronos and Montage- I see many comparing it to these
older work stations. I think Fantom as the keyboard as a contemporary
or next generation music production tool.

I think Fantom is testing preconceptions in a way. I like that boldness.

Good points. But even using it "merely" as a tool for a cover band, I find it appealing. In sounds and features it may be above what is needed, but I am drawn to all the real-time control, both for the ease of setting up sounds in advance, and for live tweaking in performance. Again, similar to the NS3 in that respect, and similarly not an inexpensive board but still one with high appeal.



I hope I don't sound like the Roland marketing machine. In addition to the high level of sound character, the real time
controls adds an aggressive dynamic. It seems much easier to be bold .

I am not much for programming or tweaking. Using Kronos as an example, AL-1, Mod7 and Str-1 have great
potential. But there is no new high level [Korg level] programming . Karma is dead in the water. Another
fantastic tool on Kronos where the potential was not aggressively pursued.

I am hoping that Fantom will break glass on high level sound potential- where the user can
get dramatic results quickly vs months of complex and deep menu diving.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: GregC] #3007252 09/09/19 11:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,299
Synthoid Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,299
Originally Posted by GregC
Fantom is a board that will take the musician into a new direction.


[Linked Image from byronmorrisonmills.files.wordpress.com]


When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Synthoid] #3007254 09/09/19 12:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
Originally Posted by Synthoid
Originally Posted by GregC
Fantom is a board that will take the musician into a new direction.


[Linked Image from byronmorrisonmills.files.wordpress.com]



Don't follow me. I like being lost wink

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007258 09/09/19 01:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,115
Legatoboy Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,115
to expensive....nice ax though.


SP6, CP-50, FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, XK-3, CX-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Legatoboy] #3007268 09/09/19 02:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
Originally Posted by Legatoboy
to expensive....nice ax though.


yes, $4000 is a lot of money. Initially.

I look at high priced keyboards long term. As in creating great music on them 5-10 years.

When the high price is amortized over 5-10 years, that justifies the purchase.

I understand, many buyers see boards as more impulse, something to play with
for 1-2 years than flip it for something else. For boards under $1500 , sure, thats
to be expected.

Once the ticket gets much larger, I suggest thinking long term, vs switching
out expensive gear every 1-2 years

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007269 09/09/19 02:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 259
Fleer Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 259
I’ll jump when it’s $2999.
After all, MONTAGE started at $4500 or thereabouts.
Also, the “included” Roland’s RD-2000 goes for $2000 so a $3000 Fantom8 sounds reasonable.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007282 09/09/19 03:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,724
Stephen Fortner Offline
But who is number 1 ? ...
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
But who is number 1 ? ...
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,724
Hoo boy, having reviewed the Montage in Keyboard, Roland looks like they're really trying to one-up it in a "let's throw the kitchen sink in this thing" sort of way. Ableton-inspired sequencing capabilities, extra panel of synthy knobs on the right, drum pads, Roland's virtual analog ecosystem, etc etc.

I've been asked to review the new Fantom for a quick 2-pager in the "Keyboard" section of Electronic Musician, but we'll have opportunities to talk more in-depth about it here, for sure.

The "does anyone really want a self-contained workstation anymore?" topic is well-trodden. I can say that sequencing on a workstation synth has, for at least the last ten years, felt like building a ship in a bottle compared to what I can do hooking up to a computer. If a keyboard maker could really get the interface right, they theoretically could counter-message that hooking up to a computer feels like, well, hooking up to a computer. There's already a precedent for this in the "DAWless analog and modular" culture, but for those folks, the black-and-white keyboard is not their interface of choice. Interested in the parallels for us old-school players.


"I'm just a confused musician who got sidetracked into this damned word business..." -Hunter S. Thompson

Stephen Fortner
Principal, Fortner Media
Senior Editor, Music Player Network
Former Editor in Chief, Keyboard Magazine
Content Creator and Behind-the-Scenes Writing Wonk, Damned Near Everyone
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007287 09/09/19 04:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 259
Fleer Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 259
Looking forward to reading your review, Stephen.
Meanwhile, is EscapeRocks back from his second visit yet?

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: GregC] #3007292 09/09/19 04:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
Originally Posted by GregC
Originally Posted by Legatoboy
to expensive....nice ax though.


yes, $4000 is a lot of money. Initially.

and also right in line with other top of line boards. Fantom-8, Montage 8, Forte 88, are all $4k. Kronos a little less at $3800, Nord Stage 3 88 higher at $4500.

And assuming you could get the sounds you need from any of them, I'd say the Roland approaches Nord in control surface (even better in some ways), without bringing along Nord's substantial limitations in things like split/layer and MIDI flexibility. I think it's a nice step toward a worthwhile goal of workstation-like depth with Nord-style operational ergonomics. (Too bad they can't compete in travel weight, though.)

I hope they can include an organ that is at least as good as the VR-09.



Last edited by AnotherScott; 09/09/19 04:36 PM.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: AnotherScott] #3007296 09/09/19 05:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,193
N4dr0j Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,193
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by GregC
Originally Posted by Legatoboy
to expensive....nice ax though.


yes, $4000 is a lot of money. Initially.


I hope they can include an organ that is at least as good as the VR-09.




If they do, and assuming you can run the organ out the sub-outs into a vent, and then back in through the inputs a la Kronos, you'll have a fairly decent clonewheel sound, no?

Though saying that, the inputs on the Fantom don't support stereo TRS inputs - just two mono channels. But assuming you can hard pan both, that shouldn't be an issue.

Last edited by N4dr0j; 09/09/19 05:22 PM.

Nord E4 SW73
Yamaha MODX7
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Fleer] #3007302 09/09/19 05:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
Originally Posted by Fleer
Looking forward to reading your review, Stephen.
Meanwhile, is EscapeRocks back from his second visit yet?


It's going to be awhile....... I just got busy. Hopefully tonight or tomorrow I'll share my thoughts.


David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Yamaha MODX6 |

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Stephen Fortner] #3007304 09/09/19 05:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner

The "does anyone really want a self-contained workstation anymore?" topic is well-trodden. I can say that sequencing on a workstation synth has, for at least the last ten years, felt like building a ship in a bottle compared to what I can do hooking up to a computer.


As big an advocate I am for Daws and hosts (Mainstage, GigPerformer), these past couple months using my MODX and PX5S at gigs has been an eye opener. While I streamlined my laptop rig, so setup was fairly easy, having to just plug in two boards and go has been a nice change, especially on Festival shows with quick change over.

So yeah, I welcome an all inclusive...that can still talk to my computers


David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Yamaha MODX6 |

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: AnotherScott] #3007313 09/09/19 06:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 70
M
mojkarma Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
M
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by GregC
Originally Posted by Legatoboy
to expensive....nice ax though.


yes, $4000 is a lot of money. Initially.

and also right in line with other top of line boards. Fantom-8, Montage 8, Forte 88, are all $4k. Kronos a little less at $3800, Nord Stage 3 88 higher at $4500.


Not at all, at least not hear in Europe. I checked the prices, here they are in $:

Fantom 6: 4042$ Montage 6: 3086$ Kronos: 3076$

That's almost a 1000$ difference!!!

Fantom 8: 4630$ Montage 8: 3777$ Kronos: 3222$

The prices at thomann.de do fluctuate a lot and right now the difference between the Fantom and its competitors from Yamaha and Korg is ridiculous high. The Kronos 88 is still almost 800$ cheaper then the smallest Fantom. Maybe the prices are different on the US market.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: mojkarma] #3007323 09/09/19 07:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
Originally Posted by mojkarma
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by GregC
Originally Posted by Legatoboy
to expensive....nice ax though.


yes, $4000 is a lot of money. Initially.

and also right in line with other top of line boards. Fantom-8, Montage 8, Forte 88, are all $4k. Kronos a little less at $3800, Nord Stage 3 88 higher at $4500.


Not at all, at least not hear in Europe. I checked the prices, here they are in $:

Fantom 6: 4042$ Montage 6: 3086$ Kronos: 3076$

That's almost a 1000$ difference!!!




why sure. We know that prices are greater outside the US. Many reasons for that

for example, you have nicer weather wink

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007324 09/09/19 07:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 70
M
mojkarma Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
M
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 70
@GregC, I'm not talking about the higher prices here in Europe compared to the US, I'm well aware of the reasons. I'm talking about the price differences between the Fantom and its competitors on the same (European) market!

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: mojkarma] #3007336 09/09/19 08:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
Originally Posted by mojkarma
@GregC, I'm not talking about the higher prices here in Europe compared to the US, I'm well aware of the reasons. I'm talking about the price differences between the Fantom and its competitors on the same (European) market!


I am guessing its roughly comparable delta here in the US

Korg Kronos 61 is $3099- across the board in the US, for example.

I vaguely recall Kronos had some price changes in some non US markets, a few months ago.

If I were you, I would ask for price history past 12 months, for all the models you list.
And maybe your country distributor will have that data and discuss the delta
with you.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007337 09/09/19 08:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 62
E
EVC Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
E
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 62
Early adopters price?

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007364 09/09/19 11:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
From a post at Gearslutz...

Quote
-Bank B contains the first 459 patches from the AX-Edge Keytar
-Bank C is the 128 patches from the Integra-7 Synth Legends expansion.
-Bank D contains the 1109 SuperNatural Synth Tones from the Integra-7 / FA synths
-Bank E contains the 896 patches from in the XV-5080.

...and the XV-5080 sound set is also in the FA and Integra-7.

I don't know if the AX-Edge sound set is unique or derived from anything else (or some combination).

Another post says that the Fantom also includes the GM2 set from the Integra-7... that seems to be a subset of what's in its CMN bank. So it has a lot of Integra sounds, but no indication of any of the SuperNatural Acoustic sounds or SRX sounds. The potential "new" sounds for the Fantom appear to be the ones in Bank A, which are almost entirely synth sounds, and the rest of the CMN bank sounds that aren't in the Integra's GM2 set. Separately, there are also banks of V-Pipano sounds and drum sounds.

Also of interest from the manual:

Quote
What is the ZEN-Core engine?
This is a new synthesizer sound engine that was developed using cutting edge technology based on VA technology developed for the V-Synth. It features analog-like response speed and high resolution, allowing you to create a wide range of high-quality sounds. It is also fused with the PCM sound engine developed by Roland for many years, supporting even more sophisticated sound design.


My initial feeling was that the new Jupiter would focus on synth sounds (VA), and the Fantom would be more acoustic instrument (sample) oriented, but it kinda looks like they are both primarily synth boards (albeit different kinds) with acoustic tones in more of a supporting role. For acoustic instrument sounds, Jupiter X and Fantom both have the XV-5080 rompler sound set, and Fantom mostly adds the V-Piano, the Integra GM2 set, and whatever came from the AX-Edge, while the Jupiter adds some or all of the RD-700GX piano sound set. For synth sounds, the Fantom has the SuperNatural Synth engine and whatever new stuff they're doing with the V-Synth derived ZEN-Core engine; the Jupiter X has specific emulations of classic Roland synths (Jupiter 8, Juno-106, SH-101, JX-8P), and we'll see what else. (The SuperNatural and ZEN-core synth sounds of the Fantom? Not sure.)


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007385 09/10/19 02:43 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,822
Moonglow Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,822
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
My initial feeling was that the new Jupiter would focus on synth sounds (VA), and the Fantom would be more acoustic instrument (sample) oriented, but it kinda looks like they are both primarily synth boards (albeit different kinds) with acoustic tones in more of a supporting role.
I too thought the Fantom would feature more acoustic instrument programs than the Jupiter, on balance. As I watched the Fantom videos there seemed to be a disproportionate number of synth vs. acoustic sounds. Other than acoustic piano, all I’ve heard were a few section strings patches. I did look at the patch/voice list and found numerous strings, brass, flute, etc., programs, but if these come from the 5080, that’s really...old?


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."
- George Bernard Shaw
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007389 09/10/19 03:11 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
Yeah, the XV-5080 is going on 20 years old. I believe it was a 64 mb sample set. The newer non-synth sounds in the Fantom would appear to be the V-piano, the GM2 set from the Integra, and the sounds from the AX-Edge, and apart from maybe the V, I don't think that stuff is particularly jaw-dropping. But according to a facebook post, SuperNatural Acoustic tones are supposed to be coming for it at some point.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007393 09/10/19 03:38 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 3
M
Mr. Mojo Risin Offline
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 3
This thing looks really cool! Good to hear Guitar Center has them already. Hopefully I can try one soon. Won't be buying one soon, way to expensive for my budget. Glad to see the Fantom back though. Maybe this will lower the prices of the older models.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: AnotherScott] #3007414 09/10/19 08:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 370
BRW Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 370
I have to say, it's been -years- since Roland has got my interest with any of their new products - but all these (apart from the groovebox) are very intriguing. I'm probably gonna go for the JU06A (despite the unforgivably crap polyphony and the miniplug) and/or the Jupiter Xm.

Originally Posted by AnotherScott
From a post at Gearslutz...

Quote
-Bank B contains the first 459 patches from the AX-Edge Keytar
-Bank C is the 128 patches from the Integra-7 Synth Legends expansion.
-Bank D contains the 1109 SuperNatural Synth Tones from the Integra-7 / FA synths
-Bank E contains the 896 patches from in the XV-5080.

...and the XV-5080 sound set is also in the FA and Integra-7.



I know Roland is (at least nowadays) known for recycling most of their sounds, but this actually makes it a very nice "best of" package. Shame about the possible lack of acoustic SN sounds, though, if that is the case.

Originally Posted by Moonglow
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
My initial feeling was that the new Jupiter would focus on synth sounds (VA), and the Fantom would be more acoustic instrument (sample) oriented, but it kinda looks like they are both primarily synth boards (albeit different kinds) with acoustic tones in more of a supporting role.
I too thought the Fantom would feature more acoustic instrument programs than the Jupiter, on balance. As I watched the Fantom videos there seemed to be a disproportionate number of synth vs. acoustic sounds. Other than acoustic piano, all I’ve heard were a few section strings patches. I did look at the patch/voice list and found numerous strings, brass, flute, etc., programs, but if these come from the 5080, that’s really...old?


That's a good point. I was wondering why most of the demos had only the "synthy" stuff on display - maybe this is why. Some people say that the 5080 still holds up, although I'm sure not in "realistic" acoustic tones. I've been getting into rack modules again and have actually been considering one...


Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007447 09/10/19 03:55 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 682
J
jeffinpghpa Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
J
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 682
I’m not asking for a full clone wheel experience but it’s a big turnoff if the Fantom is just using organ samples. Does this not even have a basic VR engine?


Yamaha U1 Upright, Kurzweil Forte 7, Viscount Legend Live, Roland FA-07, Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk2, Arturia V Collection 6, Komplete 12, Lots of iPad Stuff, Pair of QSC K10 Speakers
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: jeffinpghpa] #3007463 09/10/19 05:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
Originally Posted by jeffinpghpa
I’m not asking for a full clone wheel experience but it’s a big turnoff if the Fantom is just using organ samples. Does this not even have a basic VR engine?

That's a bit of an unknown. In one of the demos, Scott Tibbs said that the sliders could be used for drawbar adjustments, but there's no indication of any "organ engine" in the Fantom. Maybe there's something hidden in there somewhere, or maybe they are intending to provide it in an update...?


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: AnotherScott] #3007468 09/10/19 05:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,299
Synthoid Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,299
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
there's no indication of any "organ engine" in the Fantom. Maybe there's something hidden in there somewhere, or maybe they are intending to provide it in an update...?


After all this time of not releasing a new big workstation, you'd at least think it would be ready now. Oy! taz


When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007469 09/10/19 06:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
We really don't know how recently they made the decision to re-enter the high-end market, so we don't know how much development time this has had.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007488 09/10/19 07:39 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,364
S
stoken6 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
S
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,364
Meh - this feels like a "Now with added synth. And extra synth on top of the synth" kind of board. Rather like the Montage with its FM capabilities, except that does have Yamaha's finest acoustic/ROMpler samples as well. If Fantom is harking back to the XV5080 with its ROMpler samples, and not incorporating the Supernatural acoustic tones, and (like Montage) not incorporating a clonewheel engine, then it feels like an EDM tool, rather than a covers band gigging tool. I'll give it points for the V-Piano capabilities, but that doesn't make it a winner (yet) in my book.

And yet the USB capabilities, the pads, the 9 faders, have so much potential...

Cheers, Mike.


AX48.PM351.FC7.VFP2
One or two keyboards.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: stoken6] #3007493 09/10/19 07:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
Originally Posted by stoken6
Me then it feels like an EDM tool, rather than a covers band gigging tool. I'll give it points for the V-Piano capabilities, but that doesn't make it a winner (yet) in my book.

And yet the USB capabilities, the pads, the 9 faders, have so much potential...

Cheers, Mike.


I have said similar. If I was doing covers or a 70's/80's tribute thing, I couldn't cost justify this
$4000 keyboard - that has a lot of depth in other areas.

If we look at Rolands marketing spiel, as per the Roland studio performers,
they are not shouting out oldies and covers with Fantom.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007497 09/10/19 08:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
CEB Online Content
10k Club
Online Content
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
To me it feels like a live performance instrument. But I try to play current stuff.


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007499 09/10/19 08:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
Cover band stuff is the majority of my gigs, and my MODX and Krome suffice for most of those.

Heck, we live in amazing times; any Juno, Kross or MX will get you going for not a lot of $$$. Frankly, the Fantom seems like overkill.

That's not why I want it, though. I need an instrument that I love playing, that allows me to express myself. I'm still undecided on whether I really need a Fantom or can make do with a Jupiter X. But dammit, I want my aftertouch back.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Synthoid] #3007508 09/10/19 09:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,247
MikeT156 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,247
Originally Posted by Synthoid
Prices so far:

Fantom 6 $3299

Fantom 7 $3599

Fantom 8 $3999

I can't see spending that kind of coin on a Roland synth. I don't know how many players are going to spend that much on one KB. There have been a ton of a lot less expensive KB's on the market. It looks to me that Roland has been doing some wishful thinking.

Its geared toward the electronic musician, I'm a fossil so I'm not their target customer anyway. bor


Mike T.

Last edited by MikeT156; 09/10/19 09:50 PM.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: MikeT156] #3007512 09/10/19 10:21 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
Originally Posted by MikeT156
Originally Posted by Synthoid
Prices so far:

Fantom 6 $3299

Fantom 7 $3599

Fantom 8 $3999

I can't see spending that kind of coin on a Roland synth. I don't know how many players are going to spend that much on one KB. There have been a ton of a lot less expensive KB's on the market. It looks to me that Roland has been doing some wishful thinking.

Its geared toward the electronic musician, I'm a fossil so I'm not their target customer anyway. bor

Mike T.


I suspect Roland knows what they are doing. I think Fantom is going to be an object of desire.

I try to look outside my own bubble.
Its not the working mans keyboard. I don't see them as the ' demographic '

A simple quick choice for the $$/value debate is MODX.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: GregC] #3007517 09/10/19 11:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,247
MikeT156 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,247
Greg

You're right. It's not the working man's KB. However, I did take the time to check out Daniel Fisher's Demo of the Fantom. Its the best sounding Roland anything I ever heard. Honestly. That KB covers every sound you can imagine. As usual, my first take on it without hearing it was flawed. Some thing's never change. blah

Mike T can't afford synth's in that price range is not Roland's problem. pop


Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: MikeT156] #3007520 09/10/19 11:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
Originally Posted by MikeT156
Greg

You're right. It's not the working man's KB. However, I did take the time to check out Daniel Fisher's Demo of the Fantom. Its the best sounding Roland anything I ever heard. Honestly. That KB covers every sound you can imagine. As usual, my first take on it without hearing it was flawed. Some thing's never change. blah

Mike T can't afford synth's in that price range is not Roland's problem. pop




I enjoyed the Fisher video. He did a good job explaining Fantom in 5 minutes

I am totally impressed by Scott Tibbs no Talk 20 minute video. That convinced me.
And it was that sound that did it. Tibbs can make a kalimba finger piano sound awesome.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: MikeT156] #3007526 09/11/19 01:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
Originally Posted by MikeT156
Originally Posted by Synthoid
Prices so far:

Fantom 6 $3299

Fantom 7 $3599

Fantom 8 $3999

I can't see spending that kind of coin on a Roland synth. I don't know how many players are going to spend that much on one KB. There have been a ton of a lot less expensive KB's on the market. It looks to me that Roland has been doing some wishful thinking.

OTOH, it's price-competitive with Kronos, Montage, Nord Stage 3, Kurzweil Forte, Prophet X. There is a market for the high end gear. (Which, adjusted for inflation, is still cheaper than what we used to pay for many quality boards.)


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Stephen Fortner] #3007527 09/11/19 01:15 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,498
David Emm Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,498
Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner
The "does anyone really want a self-contained workstation anymore?" topic is well-trodden. I can say that sequencing on a workstation synth has, for at least the last ten years, felt like building a ship in a bottle compared to what I can do hooking up to a computer. If a keyboard maker could really get the interface right, they theoretically could counter-message that hooking up to a computer feels like, well, hooking up to a computer. There's already a precedent for this in the "DAWless analog and modular" culture, but for those folks, the black-and-white keyboard is not their interface of choice. Interested in the parallels for us old-school players.


Any hardware synth possessed of a DAW-comparable sequencing environment will cost a small ransom and probably hit The Defunct OS Wall all too easily. A workstation with my Logic-sized screen and a QWERTY keyboard mashed into a box with even just a 49-note keyboard would be like that infamous white elephant car designed by Homer Simpson. As an old-school player who spent many hours squinting into monochrome LCDs, I'll use my small octopus of a USB hub gratefully. "I sure miss floppy disks"... says no one. doh

I did some searching and could not locate that worthy Windows-based attempt a few years back... potent PC, keyboard and screen onboard, with enough CPU speed/memory to host several synths at once? Two keyboard lengths offered? Smart, boutique-ish design that just couldn't find its niche, rather like the Nord Modular? Someone here can probably recall it.


Bill Champlin: "I'd like to run the last 20 years of my life through auto-correct." David Foster: "Yeah and quantize it to the nearest three commandments."

https://soundcloud.com/david-emm-1
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007535 09/11/19 02:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
Open Labs Neko.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007566 09/11/19 11:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,299
Synthoid Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,299
Originally Posted by zephonic
Open Labs Neko.


That's the one.

[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]



When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007576 09/11/19 01:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,724
Stephen Fortner Offline
But who is number 1 ? ...
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
But who is number 1 ? ...
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,724
I know the Neko well because I sort of put it on the map with my review of it in Keyboard in, IIRC, 2003. David Emm, IMHO it never found its niche because at a time when all-in-one workstations were still popular, it didn't offer keyboardists enough unbox-it-and-go functionality. It was pretty Frankenstein-like, in fact, amounting to a cool "PC case mod" that simply put a keyboard, some control surfaces, a touchscreen, and an audio interface into a single slick chassis. But initially, the user had to figure out all the programming to make all those controls work. So, keyboardists accustomed to Motifs and K2600s expected to boot up a sequencer program or DAW, hit the hardware PLAY button, and have the software's transport play. It didn't necessarily, and those musicians went, "This doesn't work." Computer-based musicians unafraid to take a PC into a live setting (a lot fewer then than now) focused on the obsolescence issues — upgrading something where all the guts are this embedded is much harder than swapping out a PC, especially when you get to one of those generational rollovers where motherboards and CPU sockets change.

These things improved over later iterations, some in response to my initial gripes in the review according to the founder. ("We're just gonna call the second edition of this thing 'Fortner's bitch list,'' he said to me, only half-jokingly.) Open Labs' savvy marketing strategy put it into the hands of players with techs who could really make it sing, such as Timbaland and Morris Hayes of Prince's band. But yeah, it never really caught on in the mainstream M.I. consciousness, perhaps because it was perceived as too expensive.

As regards things today, David, your point about squinting at small screens is well taken. Laptops (Mac and Windows) are now a lot more stable for live use, and in the studio nearly everyone is going to use a DAW. Yamaha recognized this and abandoned the onboard sequencer in first the MX series — the entry-level Motif family synth — then the Montage and MODX. They instead focused on the very tight integration with Cubase.

The Fantom's case for onboard sequencing needs to be that it is more immediate and inspiring than working with a computer. It looks like they're trying to make it hip and Ableton-like. Even so, I think that's a difficult case to make today.

Or is it? Again, there's a part of synth culture that gravitates to hardware sequencers and disses DAWs. LCD Soundsystem saw it coming: "I hear you're buying a synthesizer and an arpeggiator / And are throwing your computer out the window / Because you want to make something real / You want to make a Yaz record." This is also the part of synth culture that's way into Eurorack and thinks parallel fifths means a bottle of booze in each hand (because of course the sequencer is doing the playing). With the CV and gate outs on the Fantom, Roland may be showing awareness of this and going after those folks.

Or I may be totally overthinking this. The prices are very close to Montage prices, length for length. Roland may just be going, "For the same price, we give you more stuff: V-Piano engine! Dedicated synthy knobs in addition to the expected controllers! Drum pads! Clip-based hipster sequencing if you want it! CV/gate out to interface with your modular world!"

I have to admit I'm intrigued by a company making a kitchen sink workstation in an era where most everything in synths and keyboards is moving towards specialization. Gonna have my work cut out for me when my Fantom shows up!

Last edited by Stephen Fortner; 09/11/19 01:14 PM.

"I'm just a confused musician who got sidetracked into this damned word business..." -Hunter S. Thompson

Stephen Fortner
Principal, Fortner Media
Senior Editor, Music Player Network
Former Editor in Chief, Keyboard Magazine
Content Creator and Behind-the-Scenes Writing Wonk, Damned Near Everyone
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Stephen Fortner] #3007577 09/11/19 01:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,299
Synthoid Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,299
Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner
I have to admit I'm intrigued by a company making a kitchen sink workstation in an era where most everything in synths and keyboards is moving towards specialization. Gonna have my work cut out for me when my Fantom shows up!


Looking forward to that review.


When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Stephen Fortner] #3007586 09/11/19 02:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner
IOr I may be totally overthinking this. The prices are very close to Montage prices, length for length. Roland may just be going, "For the same price, we give you more stuff: V-Piano engine! Dedicated synthy knobs in addition to the expected controllers! Drum pads! Clip-based hipster sequencing if you want it! CV/gate out to interface with your modular world!"

...yes, and one of the biggest complaints I've seen people mention about Montage is that it doesn't have a real sequencer. I think recognizing that AND the move to computers, Roland covered all their bases by including the sequencer AND Logic/Mainstage integration.

I really like the dedicated synth knobs, which makes this a bit more functionally competitive with the Nord Stage 3 than the Montage is. The remaining question mark there is the organ. Scott Tibbs' video said the sliders can be used as drawbars, but that's all I've seen about that. At least all the assignable outs should make it easy to put a decent Leslie/Overdrive sim on, since I'm not optimistic that there will be one in the Fantom.

Another advantage over Montage is in its MIDI implementation. From what I can tell, as a controller, it supports 16 zones rather than 8; and as a device to be controlled, it doesn't have the unfortunate Montage limitation of not being able to freely assign parts to MIDI channels. Kind of related, its seamless switching/patch remain won't disappear as soon as you assign any sound to any channel from 9 to 16.

Remaining obvious Montage advantages include the FM synth and the ability to load keyboard-playable custom samples (your own or third parties).


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007594 09/11/19 02:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
CEB Online Content
10k Club
Online Content
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
So ...... Roland is already discussing system updates bringing some expanded functionality and file management improvements. I’m not big on beta testing synth purchases. How long until the Fantom 7 stabilizes? January or February? I won’t do anything until at least after WNAMM.


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: CEB] #3007598 09/11/19 03:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
Originally Posted by CEB
So ...... Roland is already discussing system updates bringing some expanded functionality and file management improvements. I’m not big on beta testing synth purchases. How long until the Fantom 7 stabilizes? January or February? I won’t do anything until at least after WNAMM.



Kronos had similar path. Seems to be a common practice with complex boards.

IOW, Roland/Korg needs user experience + other catch up.

I don't expect 'perfection ' out of the gate. Of course, wait until you are satisfied.

These co's have their rep on the line and are unlikely to drop the ball.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007601 09/11/19 03:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
CEB Online Content
10k Club
Online Content
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
I preordered the FA06 and Kronos2. Those worked out but the K2 doesn’t really count because the platform in general had been around a long time. The FA purchase though broke the buying rules against buying the newest thing that I usually profess.

Last edited by CEB; 09/11/19 03:18 PM.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007620 09/11/19 04:54 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 114
K
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
K
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 114
The concept of a sequencer in this day in age is an interesting one and I like where Roland is going with this. I have always felt the evolution of the sequencer needed to be powerful, sophisticated, and easy enough to make up an entire song. Karma on the Korg was cool at cadences and rhythmic passages, but could you make up a song with it and do it easily? No. The simple sequencers in the drum machines don't go far enough to allow sophisticated breaks, intros, endings, build ups, etc. So the concept Roland has taken is very much an organic evolution of a Song Makeup combined with the traditional approaches sequencers were used for. I could imagine Roland releasing a "Style Pack" with pre made song templates to load into the sequencer to get your creative juices flowing. Combine that with the ability to interface with external equipment and DAWS and you've got yourself a pretty dynamic composing tool.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007622 09/11/19 05:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
When it comes to composing and songwriting I'm pretty much 100% ITB, and yet I kind of look forward to sequencing in the new Fantom.

I fondly remember doing that on the Fantom X, or the MPC2000 even longer ago. The one thing that always stood out to me was the MIDI timing. Things just felt tighter than Cubase.

If, as I understand it, the Fantom will be able to dump 16 tracks of audio simultaneously into your DAW, I can see myself adopting a hybrid workflow, where I do most of the MIDI on the keyboard, and just mix audio in my DAW.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007623 09/11/19 05:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,247
MikeT156 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,247
Partial quote by Stephen Fortner:

"The "does anyone really want a self-contained workstation anymore?" topic is well-trodden. I can say that sequencing on a workstation synth has, for at least the last ten years, felt like building a ship in a bottle compared to what I can do hooking up to a computer."

I'm one of the Fossils that did not want to add a computer and all that goes with it for LIVE gigs. Why? Too much trouble, too much time to set up in night clubs, too much time learning yet another interface, and of course, TOO MUCH Money.

I played classic rock cover tunes for years, and the Yamaha Motif ES8 certainly met my requirements when it came out. I really didn't need more than 16 tracks for the majority of classic rock songs, The sounds were certainly good enough, the action on the KB was fine, and it worked. Learning how to use it was a headache, and the small screen was a limitation in some cases, but that synth paid for itself in 2 years or less.

If there's one thing I will say about Yamaha, their equipment is dependable. I put my songs into sets, and loaded them into the MOTIF via a USB stick. I also changed around the sounds I would use to play the songs in a set, and save them onto USB sticks too. In all the years the KB has been the center of my rig, it never failed. NEVER. It still works to this day, along with all my other Yamaha equipment, some of which is 40 years old.

The reasons I stayed with this system is that it was important for me to keep things simple. No messing around with extra cables, hooking up a computer, or learning yet another interface to play music. Worse yet, arriving at a gig and unable to get the system to work. People hired me to play and sing, not to be a technician while they are waiting to hear music. For me the KISS principal is best for playing LIVE music.


Mike T.

Last edited by MikeT156; 09/11/19 05:58 PM.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: kbrkr] #3007625 09/11/19 05:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
Originally Posted by kbrkr
The concept of a sequencer in this day in age is an interesting one and I like where Roland is going with this. I have always felt the evolution of the sequencer needed to be powerful, sophisticated, and easy enough to make up an entire song. Karma on the Korg was cool at cadences and rhythmic passages, but could you make up a song with it and do it easily? No. The simple sequencers in the drum machines don't go far enough to allow sophisticated breaks, intros, endings, build ups, etc. ol.


True, Karma will not be much help with a cover song. But I am using it to support my many originals.

I also enjoy Kronos drums. Karma adds some spice/variation on drums.

But, for the most part the drum fills, rolls , breaks, are scarce. I mostly go for simple as a result and due to time.

I am enjoying how Roland is structuring recording songs, visually. Show display of intro , verse, chorus, ending, etc etc.

As a song writer, I am warming up to Fantoms approach on performing/recording.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007631 09/11/19 06:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,337
ElmerJFudd Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,337


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007634 09/11/19 06:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 13,922
Originally Posted by CEB
So ...... Roland is already discussing system updates bringing some expanded functionality and file management improvements. I’m not big on beta testing synth purchases. How long until the Fantom 7 stabilizes? January or February? I won’t do anything until at least after WNAMM.

It's that old thing about not buying version 1.0 of anything. There are people who like being early adopters of the latest things, and those who wait for the dust to settle. And luckily for companies like Roland, both groups buy. At a certain point, something is considered good enough to be useful and sufficiently stable/reliable that it is shippable and can start bringing in revenue. There's nothing wrong with buying it... and there's nothing wrong with choosing to wait. ;-)

Originally Posted by kbrkr
The simple sequencers in the drum machines don't go far enough to allow sophisticated breaks, intros, endings, build ups, etc. So the concept Roland has taken is very much an organic evolution of a Song Makeup combined with the traditional approaches sequencers were used for. I could imagine Roland releasing a "Style Pack" with pre made song templates to load into the sequencer

You're kind of describing arrangers, except I guess arrangers are for "real time" use (hit the button when you want the ending) and here you'd build a saved sequence of all the parts? Though I think arrangers can do that as well. One of these days, I have to spend some time on that stuff!

PIcking up on something in an earlier post, according to what I saw elsewhere, it has the entire AX-Edge soundset. Whether it actually has the Integra GM2 set as mentioned earlier is not clear... maybe there's some relationship between that and the AX-Edge, I don't know...


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: GregC] #3007642 09/11/19 08:13 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,247
MikeT156 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,247
Greg:

I never got into some of the synths that Roland made over the years, especially some of the synths that were geared towards "kids" making eleictronic music in their bedrooms. You know the drill, flashing color lights, but not much else.

Roland had some flagship synths in the higher price range, but I never knew of a Music dealer within driving distance that carried Roland and Serviced them, so I never bought one. I Always loved their drum machines, and I still have an R70. Great little machine, love the sounds.

I went to Sweetwater's page and watched a demo on how to program their Sequencer. Its a 16 tracks sequencer, the layout of the drum machine on the right side of the KB reminds me of Boss Drum Machines. Great sound, EASY to work with. The User Interface is a step up in terms of ability to try different sounds and switch them around and COMPARE them to the original sound. The color screen is just the right size and the layout looks good. 3500 sounds, 256 voices, V-Piano unlimited. Hmm. XLR connectors on the back! Lots of USB options. No stupid flashing lights for the kiddies on this machine. Its serious stuff!

As others have said, Roland threw everything including the Kitchen Sink in with this creation. The price appears to be justified, considering the capabilities. The fact that it is "computer ready" is an added bonus. A player could record a basic idea on the Fantom, then interface it with the software on a computer.

It is certainly a "Flagship". Cheers to Roland for making an all-in-one workstation again!


Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: ElmerJFudd] #3007648 09/11/19 08:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
Originally Posted by ElmerJFudd
The video above


Holy cow!!! Just saw the part about DAW connectivity. They worked with Apple, and not only does it give you the now usual compatibility with Logic and Garage band, but with Mainstage as well.

The Mainstage Perform screen showed up on the Fantom screen and he was changing all the Mainstage things from the Fantom. That is huge!!

Dang it. It truly has become the keyboard I've wanted.


David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Yamaha MODX6 |

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: MikeT156] #3007651 09/11/19 08:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
Originally Posted by MikeT156
Greg:

I never got into some of the synths that Roland made over the years, especially some of the synths that were geared towards "kids" making eleictronic music in their bedrooms. You know the drill, flashing color lights, but not much else.

Roland had some flagship synths in the higher price range, but I never knew of a Music dealer within driving distance that carried Roland and Serviced them, so I never bought one. I Always loved their drum machines, and I still have an R70. Great little machine, love the sounds.

I went to Sweetwater's page and watched a demo on how to program their Sequencer. Its a 16 tracks sequencer, the layout of the drum machine on the right side of the KB reminds me of Boss Drum Machines. Great sound, EASY to work with. The User Interface is a step up in terms of ability to try different sounds and switch them around and COMPARE them to the original sound. The color screen is just the right size and the layout looks good. 3500 sounds, 256 voices, V-Piano unlimited. Hmm. XLR connectors on the back! Lots of USB options. No stupid flashing lights for the kiddies on this machine. Its serious stuff!

As others have said, Roland threw everything including the Kitchen Sink in with this creation. The price appears to be justified, considering the capabilities. The fact that it is "computer ready" is an added bonus. A player could record a basic idea on the Fantom, then interface it with the software on a computer.

It is certainly a "Flagship". Cheers to Roland for making an all-in-one workstation again!


Hey Mike, I have owned a variety of Roland gear. I took a 6 yr pause from all their stuff, and somewhat recently jumped
in with the FA, 1 year ago.

I am a song recording addict. So my mouth has dropped open when I see the work flow on Fantom.
I am spending time getting my old brain wrapped around the touch screen, controls, etc etc.

The Scott Tibbs videos are the best IMO.

Fantom has distracted me from a MODX purchase. I think Roland has jumped way ahead
of the pack this time, and I don't see any other keyboard co within miles.

Its great to have a new keyboard like this to check out. It gets boring when nothing happens
for 5 years wink

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: GregC] #3007668 09/11/19 09:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,247
MikeT156 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,247
IIRC you've been a Roland fan for a long time. As I mentioned above, I never had a Roland Dealer close to where I live, but there were number of Yamaha dealers. I own more Yamaha equipment than any other Mfg. There User Interfaces have always been lacking for friendly, but their equipment lasts.

The MODX is a budget synth from Yamaha, not everyone wants to lug around a Montage, or pay the price.

From what l've seen and heard so far, Roland has stepped up. I hope its a big seller. Yamaha and Korg can use some competition.

Edit: I just checked out the demo that is Posted above. Incredible interface. Interesting link to APPLE. I bet their system is more reliable than Windows based computers. I like the sounds I heard that Sweetwater's demo produced, and the once over on the User interface posted above. A workstation class Synth for sure.


Cheers!


Mike T.

Last edited by MikeT156; 09/11/19 11:17 PM.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: MikeT156] #3007674 09/11/19 10:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
Originally Posted by MikeT156
IIRC you've been a Roland fan for a long time.

From what l've seen and heard so far, Roland has stepped up. I hope its a big seller. Yamaha and Korg can use some competition.


Cheers!


Mike T.


your memory is better than mine ! I like nostalgia. Had the Jv880 with all the Voice Crystal cards, the 3080, Fantom XR, Rd700GX1.

I like competition, yess sir. More of that and prices ' should ' go down wink

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007678 09/11/19 11:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
Says this guy on gearslutz:


Originally Posted by GearTank;14200818
Ok, so I went out to GuitarCenter last Sunday to audition the Fantom 8. I love this workstation overall, the key action is a dream, but the great thing about it, the touch display, is also the most concerning to me. I love the way the display was implemented from a software perspective, it improves the workflow so much, but the hardware feels VERY vulnerable. The most concerning is that when you slide your finger on it, the whole display shifts a few millimeters on the horizontal plane in every direction, seems like it's sitting loose inside the casing. This should never happen and Roland has got to fix that. I foresee a lot of recalls.

I want the Fantom 8 badly, I've been waiting a long time to replace my G8 with something worthy, but will wait for them to iron out the production flaws first.


https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=14200818&postcount=463


Hopefully it’s just a unit got damaged in transport.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007714 09/12/19 03:34 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
The 6 I’ve been messing with at GC does not exhibit this behavior.


David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Yamaha MODX6 |

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: AnotherScott] #3007715 09/12/19 03:45 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,925
allan_evett Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,925
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by GregC
Originally Posted by Legatoboy
to expensive....nice ax though.


yes, $4000 is a lot of money. Initially.

and also right in line with other top of line boards. Fantom-8, Montage 8, Forte 88, are all $4k. Kronos a little less at $3800, Nord Stage 3 88 higher at $4500.

And assuming you could get the sounds you need from any of them, I'd say the Roland approaches Nord in control surface (even better in some ways), without bringing along Nord's substantial limitations in things like split/layer and MIDI flexibility. I think it's a nice step toward a worthwhile goal of workstation-like depth with Nord-style operational ergonomics. (Too bad they can't compete in travel weight, though.)

The travel weight put me off rather quickly. Love my RD-2000, but if I could condense that, my JP50 and XV-5080 into a single 88 I could save a bunch a space and have a stage piano replication of the RD with a lot of additional synth capability (among other things, such as the sample pads). But 61 lbs vs the 48 of the RD2000? Nada..




"Someday, we will look back on these days and laugh. It may be a maniacal laugh from within the confines of our padded cells, but it will be a laugh nonetheless" - Mr. Boffo.







Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007716 09/12/19 03:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 848
Mighty Motif Max Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 848
My understanding is that the sequencer is a phrase-based one, limited to 32 measures per section, then eight sections per track? Basically Pattern Mode on the Motif series then. Just a simple linear sequencer would be nice.


Yamaha: Motif XF8/YS200/CVP-305/CLP-130/YPG-235/PSR-295/PSS-470
Korg: Krome 61
Roland: JV-1000
Casio: CT-370
Kimball Valencia/Broadway/Conn 465 w/144 spkrs/WCOC Reed Organ/Titano Virtuoso Converter
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007723 09/12/19 05:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,247
MikeT156 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 8,247
The only thing I can say is that a player can make sections repeat or have a similar section that is shorter than the previous one of less than 32 to complete the phrase. The Roland Rep said the synth could be Linear, pattern based, or phrase based. I don't know if what he said was true, or if I didn't pay close enough attention to how he said it.

I do classic rock covers and have been using a Motif ES8 since that synth came out and I never ran out of space or measures on the Yamaha.


Mike T.


Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Mighty Motif Max] #3007724 09/12/19 05:43 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 176
gino Offline OP
Senior Member
OP Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 176
Website says Recording Methods are - Realtime recording, Step recording, TR-REC. I think the realtime recording is the linear sequencing method.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007759 09/12/19 02:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 767
rickzjamm Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 767
AnotherScott echoed my thoughts... the F8's beefy 61 lbs. make it hard to justify gigging with it (seems like it's meant for the studio or burly roadies of a major act) & not sure if the F7 "weighted action" will cut it for APs or would you have to do some serious adapting? It does seem to be an all in one board for gigs & I feel this is the NS3 slayer except for the weight.
Still wanting one but justifying the price is a slippery slope for me. Good news is according to Ed Diaz SN are on the way...


Plan your work & work your plan.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: rickzjamm] #3007813 09/12/19 07:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
Originally Posted by rickzjamm
AnotherScott echoed my thoughts... the F8's beefy 61 lbs. make it hard to justify gigging with it (seems like it's meant for the studio or burly roadies of a major act) & not sure if the F7 "weighted action" will cut it for APs or would you have to do some serious adapting? It does seem to be an all in one board for gigs & I feel this is the NS3 slayer except for the weight.
Still wanting one but justifying the price is a slippery slope for me. Good news is according to Ed Diaz SN are on the way...



yes, the F8 is 61 lbs..... but that's actually lighter than it's predecessor, the G8 that came in in the 70lb area. Lot of people around here (Texas) gig with the X8 and G8
Heck, the Motif XF8 is almost 62lbs....and those are all over the gigging world around here.

I agree it's heavy and not for everyone, including me. However, this isn't a new thing for high end 88note workstations.


David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Yamaha MODX6 |

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007814 09/12/19 07:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
CEB Online Content
10k Club
Online Content
10k Club
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,483
Stop being a bunch of girlie men. The Kronos 2-88 and Montage-8 are heavy also. If I I can do it anyone can. 😀😀😀

You need to ‘Pump you up’. 🥩🥩🥩🏋️‍♂️🏋️‍♂️🏋️‍♂️💪💪💪


"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: CEB] #3007823 09/12/19 09:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,299
Synthoid Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 11,299
Originally Posted by CEB
Stop being a bunch of girlie men.


[Linked Image from 2.bp.blogspot.com]


When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007824 09/12/19 09:05 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 682
J
jeffinpghpa Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
J
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 682
This guy likes to carry TWO Fantom 8's in hard SKB cases up two flights of stairs using only one arm.

Complains that the Fantom 8 isn't heavy enough for him. Carries a subwoofer in the other hand for his bandmates.

#GymGoals

Attached Files
Piano.png (579.84 KB, 322 downloads)

Yamaha U1 Upright, Kurzweil Forte 7, Viscount Legend Live, Roland FA-07, Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk2, Arturia V Collection 6, Komplete 12, Lots of iPad Stuff, Pair of QSC K10 Speakers
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007831 09/12/19 10:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
HAHA!


It's not that I can't lug the 60+lb boards..... it's that I don't want to anymore. I don't mind the 30is lb boards in a 61.


David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Yamaha MODX6 |

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007839 09/12/19 11:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
I find it interesting.

folks can purchase a heavy $3000- $4000 keyboard and spend maybe $10,000 on a rig

I would go the extra mile and hire a roadie. Likely worth the $50 or more for a night

Last edited by GregC; 09/13/19 12:08 AM.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: GregC] #3007848 09/13/19 12:26 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 265
C
Charleston Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
C
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 265
I always needed a bodyguard more than a roadie. Someone to be on the lookout when loading out, and loading back into my house in the middle of the night.


NI, Arturia, Ableton, Waves, Casio VL-1/MT-500, Yamaha KX5, Roland Juno 106/D50/XP80/P-55/A-49, Korg M1/WavestationSR/Microstation/Microkey, Peavey C8, SK1, QS6, Yamaha G2 grand
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Charleston] #3007850 09/13/19 12:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
G
GregC Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
Online Content
MP Hall of Fame Member
G
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 6,729
Originally Posted by Charleston
I always needed a bodyguard more than a roadie. Someone to be on the lookout when loading out, and loading back into my house in the middle of the night.


I agree. Its no diff in my area. Would have a g/f or buddy with a cell phone keeping watch.
And in the crowd

In addition to the muscle

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007860 09/13/19 01:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
Had a brief encounter with the F8 just now. Looks like there’s a bit of a learning curve (zones/scenes/tones), it’s different from the Rolands of yore.

Soundwise, it feels hifi and up to date, while retaining that Roland character.

I want to have a better idea of the architecture and possibilities before I take the plunge, but it would take something major to hold me back, I think.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: zephonic] #3007867 09/13/19 01:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 10,809
nursers Offline
10k Club
Offline
10k Club
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 10,809
Originally Posted by zephonic
Had a brief encounter with the F8 just now. Looks like there’s a bit of a learning curve (zones/scenes/tones), it’s different from the Rolands of yore.

Soundwise, it feels hifi and up to date, while retaining that Roland character.

I want to have a better idea of the architecture and possibilities before I take the plunge, but it would take something major to hold me back, I think.


Stop these positive stories I cannot afford one of these damn things grin

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: nursers] #3007870 09/13/19 02:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,401
K
KeyMoe Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
K
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,401
Originally Posted by nursers
Originally Posted by zephonic
Had a brief encounter with the F8 just now. Looks like there’s a bit of a learning curve (zones/scenes/tones), it’s different from the Rolands of yore.

Soundwise, it feels hifi and up to date, while retaining that Roland character.

I want to have a better idea of the architecture and possibilities before I take the plunge, but it would take something major to hold me back, I think.


Stop these positive stories I cannot afford one of these damn things grin
. THIS!


Montage 7, Mojo 61, PC-3, XK-3c Pro, Fantom X-7, Kronos 88, Hammond SK-1, Motif XF- 7, PC361, Hammond SK-2, Roland FR-1, FR-18, Hammond B3 - Blond, Hammond BV -Cherry
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007874 09/13/19 02:34 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
Yep.
I’ve got to stop going to GC and messing with the 6 they have


David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Yamaha MODX6 |

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: GregC] #3007875 09/13/19 02:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,332
Originally Posted by GregC
Originally Posted by Charleston
I always needed a bodyguard more than a roadie. Someone to be on the lookout when loading out, and loading back into my house in the middle of the night.


I agree. Its no diff in my area. Would have a g/f or buddy with a cell phone keeping watch.
And in the crowd

In addition to the muscle


This one of the things, among many, I enjoy about the Biker gigs we do. They totally take care of you, prospects are your roadies and security. And they’re really cool to everyone in the band.

We have a good relationship with a couple clubs here and we play about 2 shows a year.


David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Yamaha MODX6 |

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: zephonic] #3007893 09/13/19 08:35 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,172
Originally Posted by zephonic
Had a brief encounter with the F8 just now. Looks like there’s a bit of a learning curve (zones/scenes/tones), it’s different from the Rolands of yore.

Soundwise, it feels hifi and up to date, while retaining that Roland character.

I want to have a better idea of the architecture and possibilities before I take the plunge, but it would take something major to hold me back, I think.


Let me add some context: I didn't spend much time with the bread and butter sounds (piano, EP, organ, clav, gtr, etc.) but what little I played didn't impress me much. Serviceable, but a bit déja vu.

I was mostly interested in the synth stuff; you know, Roland's pads, synthleads, bell-like sounds etc. They have traditionally excelled at that, and my first impression is that the new Fantom has it in spades, and it seems there's plenty of new flavors to discover and savor.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3007945 09/13/19 04:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 114
K
kbrkr Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
K
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 114
I thought this review / Demo was pretty interesting in terms of feature set and sound quality. Also a nice demonstration of song makeup possibilities.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZLJyHm506k

Page 1 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Moderated by  Dave Bryce, Stephen Fortner 

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3