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Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3010928 10/03/19 06:19 PM
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I am in plan mode. I don't have any special music production requirements where the Fantom is critical today or in December.

I also see a strong surge on getting the Fantom now. But I have never followed the herd. On anything.

Since we are talking $4000, I follow the cautious route since NAMM is 4 months away. Sure , nothing
significant might occur. Meanwhile, Fantom will see some improvements and any concerns should
become crystal clear.

I am not as motivated or dependent on history, Or ulterior motives of a Roland, Time is going to answer
mostly all questions. This is my opinion but when any keyboard or music hardware based co puts out a
$2000, $3000, $4000 new product, they have put themselves in the bright spot lights. Thus they have put
the co under pressure to perform and follow thru.

I also don't characterize Fantom { or Montage or Kronos from 8 yrs ago} as a 'try as you go and see what happens '
type product. Thats my rationale, I see waiting 4 months as no big deal.

KC Island
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: GregC] #3010958 10/03/19 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GregC
Originally Posted by RABid
Ver. May sell my Kronos 3 76, Virus TI2 and System 8 to pick up a Fantom 7. My rule is sell 2 to buy 1 as I reduce my rig.

Only considering selling the Kronos 3 because I also have a 61 key version and an RD2000 for weighted action.


never heard of a official Korg Kronos 3

A Kronos 2, yes.



I've never understood why Korg chose to call the third version of the Kronos the 2. Since you also insist on users calling the third version the 2, maybe you can enlighten me on the logic behind such a seemingly illogical naming system.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: RABid] #3010963 10/03/19 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by RABid
Originally Posted by GregC
Originally Posted by RABid
Ver. May sell my Kronos 3 76, Virus TI2 and System 8 to pick up a Fantom 7. My rule is sell 2 to buy 1 as I reduce my rig.

Only considering selling the Kronos 3 because I also have a 61 key version and an RD2000 for weighted action.


never heard of a official Korg Kronos 3

A Kronos 2, yes.



I've never understood why Korg chose to call the third version of the Kronos the 2. Since you also insist on users calling the third version the 2, maybe you can enlighten me on the logic behind such a seemingly illogical naming system.


I suppose you can call it whatever you like. I stick with what Korg says to avoid confusion.

I don't work for Korg so what you read is my opinion.
You can also go to wikipedia for dates of the Kronos models

There is the original Kronos from 2011. Which is what I have.

They introduced the " X " model, sometime in 2012 [my recollection on date].

Why the " X" ? I think Korg wanted to make a distinction due to an occurrence of defective
key beds in the original 2011 model. Korg also expanded the SSD size.

The Kronos 2 appeared January 2015. It featured new sounds, a significant OS upgrade.
As we know, the OS upgrade worked on every Kronos.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3010973 10/04/19 12:41 AM
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I also started with an original Kronos. Skipped the X. Own two of the 3's. ... Oops. Excuse me. I own two of the third version models, call 2's. smile

I also owned a Fantom years and years ago. ... Oops. Excuse me. Fantom 76.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3011817 10/10/19 03:10 PM
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Hey people, I said I'd follow up with some findings on how noisy the Fantom's keyboard action is. I have the Fantom 7 here in my studio, which has the semi-weighted synth action, and compared it to a few other things: Yamaha MODX (unweighted) and CP73 (weighted), as well as a Dexibell Vivo S9 stage piano (weighted) and for giggles, one of my old Kurzweil K2000s. The Kurz was quieter than anything, though of the synth actions, the Fantom still gets my nod for smoothness and quiet on organ-style palm smears. Playing the keys intentionally hard to hear how they "bottom out," the Fantom was most certainly not louder than the MODX. The MODX action is lighter and bottoms out with more of a midrange-y "clack," whereas the Fantom is a lower-pitched, dull thud. I'm not sure why some folks are finding the Fantom's mechanical sounds distracting. Could be something to do with the particular frequency.


"I'm just a confused musician who got sidetracked into this damned word business..." -Hunter S. Thompson

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Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3011890 10/10/19 11:42 PM
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Thanks for the update, good to know thu

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Devnor] #3011988 10/11/19 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Devnor
I've had my Fantom 7 for 4 days. At least 40 hours on the machine already. The organ is all PCM and drawbars control the registrations. There is nothing to see here. There are 380 ish PCM waves but there are empty banks so expansion looks very possible. There's a ton of old presets with familiar names but they often don't sound as good as the Jupiter. Some basic editing brings them to life...replace a PCM partial with VA and filter adjustments. The control surface makes it super easy to get to into and around the synth. Many of the new presets make use of the step LFO and they like routing that to pitch which created a few intonation issues in 1 particular composition. I spent a couple days with loop player and TR REC seq stuff. It's fun, ideas go down quick but workflow could be improved and it needs editing functions. By day 4 I was back in Logic and that's where things opened up. MacOS driver installation was a bit tricky, it could be documented better. Before you do anything set the USB setting in Fantom to "vendor" and write/reboot Fantom. 32 inputs and 6 outputs appeared plus MIDI over USB. Nice. DAW control works mixer adjustments, transport control via the pads. I'm Logic key commands guy so it's still faster using QWERTY but if you don't already know this stuff, you won't need a dedicated control surface for DAW. Fantom is 16 part multitimbral. Voices are big enough so they can stand on their own or in pairs. Have to say Fantom is light on EFX, 1 insert per part and 2 master.

Fantom 7 synth action is very nice. Better than anything else I've owned. Few quirks...V Piano can only be in zone 1. All the INIT presets in the machine are not fully initialized so watch out (velocity limited to 80, probably other things). Just init the scene before you dive in. Current presets pretty bad.

Friends are asking me "are you going to sell the Jupiter? The Kronos?" The answer is neither. They all have their strengths and I've got years learning and understanding these instruments. All together, it sounds glorious. Really wonderful time to play electronic instruments I'm blessed. It's been a very exciting couple weeks!


Best synopsis I've read, thank you!

Organ "nothing to see here"....how bad is it? LOL Could you tweak up a decent B3/122 sound with what is there now? How would it compare to the B3 in Logic these days?

It may be a long list, but generally, what does the Kronos do better? More specifically how do sequencing cababilites compare Kronos/Fantom. I hear alot of cursing about the Kronos sequencing.......


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Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: uhoh7] #3011991 10/11/19 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by uhoh7
[quote=Devnor]I've h

It may be a long list, but generally, what does the Kronos do better? More specifically how do sequencing cababilites compare Kronos/Fantom. I hear alot of cursing about the Kronos sequencing.......


I love the Kronos SEQ- created +60 songs on it. One gripe is the tiny font size Another is polyphony limit- this is related to the processor/OS , I believe. . Other than that, I am comfortable with the work flow and my recordings sound good.

I haven't gotten my brain around the Fantom's approach. I expect it to be different. Just the same, and per the demos, it appears the sequencing is a strength , and the results should be stellar. I know that is 'iffy ' since I don't have one, but the Fantom has my interest/attention, as a song writer.

Last edited by GregC; 10/11/19 08:49 PM.
Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: uhoh7] #3011997 10/11/19 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by uhoh7

Best synopsis I've read, thank you!

Organ "nothing to see here"....how bad is it? LOL Could you tweak up a decent B3/122 sound with what is there now? How would it compare to the B3 in Logic these days?.


Thank you! If you dial up any Fantom organ patch & close your eyes, you're instantly transported back when you first played organ on a Fantom X only with nicer reverb.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Devnor] #3012029 10/12/19 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Devnor
Originally Posted by uhoh7

Best synopsis I've read, thank you!

Organ "nothing to see here"....how bad is it? LOL Could you tweak up a decent B3/122 sound with what is there now? How would it compare to the B3 in Logic these days?.


Thank you! If you dial up any Fantom organ patch & close your eyes, you're instantly transported back when you first played organ on a Fantom X only with nicer reverb.


OMG......well at least you can get to those Logic/Mainstage organs with a nice interface......

I kinda realized what I really want is a Genos........now that I realize how heavy on "sound design" read "not live" the workstations are now. Crikey, you can sing right into the thing with 4-part...etc. I was all excited tonite about the Pa4x untill I watched Adian fall in and out of love for it.

The hilarious thing is how the "arranger" boards are so looked down upon (over here), yet the good ones seem to have a alot of features NA on Kronos/Forte etc.

The Fantom is demonstrated essentially as an arranger board.....really the best demos have it being used like one.

That is the future: a Genos/Kronos board, 30lbs Fantom Synth action which has your back OMB or Studio sound designer, and takes the place of your Audio interface, drum machine, mixer and all that, but will let in your eurorack stuff and anything else.

The Yamaha Genos is so buttoned up, and youd need to spend some time in a re-education center to get the lingo.

A good used Kronos 2 61 is about 1K cheaper than a new Fantom 6.....but that Fantom back panel has CV and the guts look pretty strong.....up to date...except for some more arranger functions wink

Last edited by uhoh7; 10/12/19 04:46 AM.

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Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: GregC] #3012038 10/12/19 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by GregC
I have never followed the herd.


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Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Stephen Fortner] #3012158 10/13/19 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Stephen Fortner
Hey people, I said I'd follow up with some findings on how noisy the Fantom's keyboard action is. I have the Fantom 7 here in my studio, which has the semi-weighted synth action, and compared it to a few other things: Yamaha MODX (unweighted) and CP73 (weighted), as well as a Dexibell Vivo S9 stage piano (weighted) and for giggles, one of my old Kurzweil K2000s. The Kurz was quieter than anything, though of the synth actions, the Fantom still gets my nod for smoothness and quiet on organ-style palm smears. Playing the keys intentionally hard to hear how they "bottom out," the Fantom was most certainly not louder than the MODX. The MODX action is lighter and bottoms out with more of a midrange-y "clack," whereas the Fantom is a lower-pitched, dull thud. I'm not sure why some folks are finding the Fantom's mechanical sounds distracting. Could be something to do with the particular frequency.

Thanks for the follow up, Stephen.
Aside from loud mechanical noise leaking into the microphone, a loud keybed can get on my nerves after a while, and I think it's true that the lower frequencies tend to be more distracting than the higher frequencies.
Additionally, even if you use headphones, playing a noisy keybed in a house or apartment with thin walls can turn the neighbors into sworn enemies determined to make it impossible for you to make music.
I've been in situations like that, and it made me aware of the need for either a quiet keybed or to build some kind of booth or enclosure to keep the noise down.
When it comes to live playing it's a non-issue.

Fortunately, there are manufacturers who recognize the need for a quiet keybed action, such as Kawai, just try the VPC1 or the MP11se, for a hammer action they are remarkably quiet.
I haven't had the opportunity to try out a Fantom 6 or 7, so I have to go by what I can hear on videos,

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: John64] #3012163 10/13/19 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by John64
I haven't had the opportunity to try out a Fantom 6 or 7


I gave up on GC stocking one any time soon. rolleyes


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Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: Synthoid] #3012269 10/14/19 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Synthoid
Originally Posted by John64
I haven't had the opportunity to try out a Fantom 6 or 7


I gave up on GC stocking one any time soon. rolleyes



come west....southwest.

two of my local GC's have at least the Fantom 6 in stock, and also on display to audition.


David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-S3000 | Yamaha MODX6 |

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3012275 10/14/19 02:39 PM
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OK... as long as there's BBQ. laugh


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Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3012910 10/19/19 04:59 AM
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I spent some more time with it today, and walked away feeling it’s a bit of an unfinished product. I look forward to what software updates will bring.

This time I got to play the 6, and felt the action was a bit shorter than what I’m used on my X7.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3012976 10/19/19 10:27 PM
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Played the 8 today - went planning to pull the trigger. I thought the action and the piano very nice. Organs - puzzling how bad they are. I found many sounds seem like from my old JV1080/Fantom S.

Nice looking and solid keyboard. Great potential, needs a better soundset IMO. Didn't get it - not for me....Yet.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: echo66] #3012982 10/19/19 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by echo66
I found many sounds seem like from my old JV1080/.

makes sense, since the sound banks include the XV-5080 sound set.


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Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3012983 10/19/19 11:42 PM
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Yeah that's it, seemed like a flashback those patches. Not a bad thing just besides the vpiano it felt like that's all it had going. Nothing new and pricey. !

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: AnotherScott] #3012987 10/20/19 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by echo66
I found many sounds seem like from my old JV1080/.

makes sense, since the sound banks include the XV-5080 sound set.



tough crowd. Ya think the XV owners would like to play their legacy 70's/80's patches on the new Fantom ?
wink

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: GregC] #3012990 10/20/19 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by GregC
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by echo66
I found many sounds seem like from my old JV1080/.

makes sense, since the sound banks include the XV-5080 sound set.



tough crowd. Ya think the XV owners would like to play their legacy 70's/80's patches on the new Fantom ?
wink



For sure, that's a good thing. Although if that's all it's got, why upgrade?

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: echo66] #3012991 10/20/19 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by echo66
Originally Posted by GregC
Originally Posted by AnotherScott
Originally Posted by echo66
I found many sounds seem like from my old JV1080/.

makes sense, since the sound banks include the XV-5080 sound set.



tough crowd. Ya think the XV owners would like to play their legacy 70's/80's patches on the new Fantom ?
wink



For sure, that's a good thing. Although if that's all it's got, why upgrade?


all its got ?

Roland must have everyone brain washed. wink

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3012992 10/20/19 12:26 AM
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Good point. I'm just talking soundwise. As a Montage/Kronos owner I was disappointed.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: echo66] #3012996 10/20/19 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by echo66
Good point. I'm just talking soundwise. As a Montage/Kronos owner I was disappointed.


fair point. 8 yr Kronos owner + the FA07.

Montage+ Kronos= very powerful. Tough to top that.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: echo66] #3013001 10/20/19 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by echo66
Good point. I'm just talking soundwise. As a Montage/Kronos owner I was disappointed.


IMO Trying one in store doesn't give you a true idea of its power. I've owned every workstation there is, and so far Fantom is my favourite. Different strokes I guess, all depends what you use it for. I play covers so for me the UI and being able to emulate a patch very quickly, control external gear all via the Fantom and its sheers quality of sound when going direct to the PA is better than I got from the Kronos or Montage... anything else Roland add to in in future. is going to be a bonus for me. Going back to a Kronos or Montage now after using the Fantom for a couple of months would feel clunky and slow...

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: echo66] #3013003 10/20/19 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by echo66
For sure, that's a good thing. Although if that's all it's got, why upgrade?

It's not all it's got. From a gearslutz post, besides the V-Piano bank...:

Quote
-Bank A new unpublished sounds
-Bank B contains the first 459 tone list from the AX-Edge Keytar
-Bank C is the 128 patches from the Integra-7 Synth Legends expansion.
-Bank D contains the 1109 SuperNatural Synth Tones from the Integra-7 / FA synths
-Bank E contains the 896 patches from in the XV-5080.
-Bank CMN contains the remaining 837 tone list from the AX-Edge Keytar (from 460 to 1296)

All the 1296 tone list from the AX-Edge Keytar are included in the new Fantom. All the PCM 1083 multisamples of XV-5080 (included in Roland Cloud JV1080 and in Integra -7) and all the 450 PCM SuperNATURAL Synth Tone of Integra -7 are included in the new Fantom


Besides the presets, of course there is also the possibility of creating your own patches with its updated engine.

Other than that, there is the promise of future sound set/technologies yet to be provided, we'll see...

Besides the sounds, there's also the entire ergonomic control surface and Logic/Mainstage integration.

So it's not for everyone, but there's a lot that people could like... even if they already own something with the old XV sounds. ;-)


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Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3013976 10/28/19 07:17 AM
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Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3013978 10/28/19 07:42 AM
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Update 1.10 coming in the next few hours includes:

-Added EXPANSION function for ZEN-Core.
-Added a pattern editing function using a piano roll.
-Added scene search function.
-Added ZONE assign function and playback level function for sample pads.
-Added The Noise Suppressor function to the analog filter.
-Added switching function at the pattern end. (Pattern Seq) -Added copy function in TR-REC.
-Added function to play / stop the target pattern.
-Added normalize function to Sample Edit.
-Added WAVE EDIT endpoint preview.
-Added parameters to ZEN-Core system.
<Functional improvement>
-Supported high resolution velocity recording when recording patterns.
-Improved the list display when double-tapping, such as a roar name.
-Improved tone category button operation on the SCENE SELECT screen.

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3014088 10/29/19 03:28 AM
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How are the new epianos?

Re: New Roland Fantom [Re: gino] #3014907 11/04/19 07:09 PM
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Sorry if it’s been posted in this thread already, but the Sound-On-Sound review is up.

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/roland-fantom


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