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For the jazz players here � channeling my inner Sven! :-)


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I guess I'm gonna show a part of myself I usually avoid. I hesitated posting this because I'm not the type to dog any musician out there making what I presume is a sincere effort to present their best work. I have to admit to some cognitive dissonance when it comes to this however. A French electronic music artist named FKJ (for "French Kiwi Juice") is featured here in an official video by the Montreux Jazz Festival, playing a solo piano set. Of course we all know that these days, "jazz festival" can mean many other styles of music besides jazz â I totally get that, these events have to make a profit and let's face it, "pure" jazz won't do that. As far as I can tell though, what he's doing on this video is not EDM, funk, r&b, rock, etc... it's JAZZ â or it's supposed to be.

 

If anyone is gonna indulge me and check this out, I would ask you to first read some of the comments below this video before you listen to it. If you don't have time for that, let me throw out a few cut & pastes from them:

 

'He's just a musical god'

'Didn't know FKJ was such a talented jazz pianist'

'FKJ is a musical god that exceeds any expectation. Amazing taste, great blend of jazz, modern styles a swaggy beats'

'An absolute musical genius'

'One of the most beautiful pieces I've ever heard....EVERY transition is amazing'

'Eargasm'

'He is a true genius'

'beyond description in any language'

'Talent aside, what impresses me more is that he played straight fire for 20 minutes straight'

'Piano CHOPS! I had no idea. Absolutely floored'

 

Since this is the official Montreux Jazz Festival video channel, I have to admit I was expecting something different from what I heard. Am I the only one? Listen if you dare. I won't blame you if you don't sit through the entire 20 minute set â I didn't â but scanning through & listening at various points, you'll get the idea.

 

I guess what I'm saying is this: anyone can record him or herself playing whatever they want, post it to youtube and claim it's jazz or whatever term they care to use. There's a lot of great music on the tubes, and some not-so-great, imo of course; that's the nature of the beast and I understand that. And as I said, I presume we're all doing our best â otherwise why post? However, for this person to sincerely present himself playing what I'm hearing, and have it be an official Montreux Jazz Festival video, well call me cranky but I am pretty disappointed at where the bar is these days. I'm curious if any other jazz player on this board agrees with me or am I being a dick? I'll stop here because there's a part of me that wants to go Pat Metheny/Kenny G on this but I don't have the cred. What I do have is an at-least-semi-informed opinion and I guess I just put it out there. After seeing this, I couldn't help myself.

 

[EDIT - OK I searched and found a few references to FKJ on this board. I sincerely don't want to offend anybody that thinks highly of him. I checked out a few of his videos where he does his looping stuff. He's a talented guy â plays bass, guitar, keys, sax and maybe more. That kind of music doesn't move me too much but I recognize the talent involved in putting it out there. My little diatribe above is more specifically about his SOLO JAZZ PIANO performance in the video I linked to â that's it! ]

 

[video:youtube]https://youtu.be/QTACugN67yc

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My take on this is that he demonstrates here what he, and many popular (electronic) musicians, do best and that it take a hook, run with it and milk it dry. The appeal as a promo for the jazzfestival is that it lowers the threshold of "jazz" for the listener of today. That listener consumes music rather than listens to it. You and I want to understand the emotional point the composer wants to make and try to get the interpretation of the player of that piece. But a lot of people are just addicted to the neverending high of climax after climax. Every song you hear on the radio is meticulously crafted so that every second draws the attention of the consuming audience. That is why I for one can't stand popular music, because I don't want to consume, I want to experience and understand.

 

For me, the performance of FKJ (what a name btw...) is too disorganized and shallow for my liking. But, to each his own.

Trumpet player by trade, but fell in love with keys too.
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This is actually a spoof like the videos below.

 

Seriously though, to be featured at Montreux is disturbing on so many levels it's hard not to think someone is having a huge laugh at the general public's expense. To me it sounds like a bunch of licks strung together at random with pointless noodling over the left hand doing independent pointless random stuff. The chord changes sound random and make no sense harmonically. Finally, there is no rhythm at all.

 

One of the comments on the video pretty much hit the nail on the head:

"So far he reminds me of the guy you always find playing the public piano at St Pancras station in London...."

 

All of these critiques are with this being presented as Jazz Piano by professionals running the festival. I'm all for anyone creating what they like at any level.

 

Chick and Herbie on the Merv Griffin show:

[video:youtube]

Hans Groiner on Thelonius Monk

[video:youtube]

J a z z  P i a n o 8 8

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I haven't checked this out, will later. What I will say is that:

 

-People love to buy into hype.

-The YouTube video suggestion algorithm has been utter garbage for a while and for some reason, FKJ has been a beneficiary wherein his stuff gets suggested all over the place. My point is that most of those fawning comments are probably from people who have no idea what Montreux is.

-YouTube comments, or any online comment section, are generally to be avoided for one's sanity.

-Something something public funding and education of the arts down the drain something something whatever.

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Hmm, I don't know. Does it come off as a spoof? Other than he's wearing a winter hat and jacket while he breaks a sweat at the piano?

For an EDM guy you have to give him that he's listened to piano music and spent some time on the instrument building some dexterity to play chords, melody and some bass.

But no, it's shallow for jazz - or we just don't get it. The latter is most likely.

 

Here's a little bio, "Paris-based producer Vincent Fenton creates mellow, sample-based electronic sounds under the name French Kiwi Juice, or FKJ for short. He started out working as a theater sound engineer while teaching himself the basics of music production at the same time. Finding a style within electronic music that melded the pulse of house with smoother organic elements, he and other artists on the Roche Musique label worked toward the development of an electronic subgenre of new French house near the start of the 2010s. A series of EPs arrived on the label, with The Twins showing up in 2012 and Time for a Change dropping the next year. A strong online profile served as the basis for much of FKJ's fame, and he developed a strong live set to match his studio output on-stage. The Take Off EP followed in 2014, and FKJ spent much of the next two years working toward the recording of a proper full-length, which arrived in March of 2017 as a self-titled long player on the Believe Direct Limited label. A single, "Is Magic Gone," arrived the following year."

 

Here's some other stuff he does. Sounds the same when he's on drums, bass or guitar... sax as well.

150 million views. I think this is just his style. It's a lot better when he invites players to sit in.

[video:youtube]

 

[video:youtube]

 

[video:youtube]

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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I suppose it could be a spoof but it definitely is not. Mr. Kiwi Juice is dead serious as he plunks out his diatonic ditties. BTW that Chick & Herbie shred is fantastic! I love it. And "Groiner", well some of the comments are as entertaining as the video. And, bottom line, Larry Goldings is a monster player. That's why I enjoy those spoof shred videos â you KNOW those folks can really play! This FKJ solo "jazz" â that's an entirely different animal imo. It's the opposite of a shred video â an unwitting spoof-y vid put out as a serious work.

 

Like I said, I'm not busting on the guy for what he does most of the time â building up loops with simple diatonic harmonies, layering different instruments, then manipulating the different elements with pitch or modulation effects, bringing parts in & out, etc. It's listening to the particular video I linked to, along with reading the comments, that triggered me!

 

PS - there are a very small number of comments on that video from folks that share my opinion instead of the general consensus that FKJ is a jazz god. Look hard enough and you'll find one of mine!

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My first jazz instructor, Johannes Wallman, once described certain types of playing as "jazzy" or "jazz-ish" but not really jazz. Meaning, to the listener unfamiliar with jazz, it has "some" of the elements found in jazz (and not so much in other genre - improvisation, some major seventh chords, a few upper extensions).

 

But it's somewhat like me trying to sound like I can "speak" German. Because I know nothing about actual German, I'd start spitting out gutturals and stringing nonsense syllables together to try and "sound" like what the language seems to me. But a true German speaker would immediately recognize it as random gibberish.

 

There's nothing wrong with 20 minutes of "jazz-ish" noodling. It's not dissimilar from how I started getting interested in jazz a long time ago.

 

But featuring "jazz-ish" on the main stage at Montreaux makes me shake my head.

 

My 0.02

 

 

..
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Listened to about half. I'd like to think I play more interesting stuff on background gigs. :idk:

 

Again, reading the comments... just clear proof that you shouldn't pay attention to these people. How could anyone reasonably watch this piano session and ask for collaborations with Cory Henry and Jacob Collier, two true phenoms? They don't have a clue. Granted, if it's in the usual electric looping context like with Tom Misch (another musician clearly a cut above, though he's not quite on the Henry/Collier level), it would probably be fine.

 

But yeah, I guess Montreux wanted some hits on their YT channel. That's about it.

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Well I hate to say anything negative because to me the guy comes off as sincere with what he"s creating. Plus I think he"s a decent pianist. He doesn"t move me but obviously he moves others. Is it jazz? I guess it depends on the definition one chooses. Is Keith Jarrett"s Koln Concert jazz? It sounds to me like FKJ is aspiring for that type of aesthetic. For me, FKJ"s performance isn"t jazz but incorporates some jazzy sounds.

 

On a somewhat related note my daughter"s best friend asked me to play her wedding ceremony next month. She sent me the original recordings of the songs she wants (country and pop songs) and also piano covers she found on YouTube. A couple of the piano covers are what I would call amateur performances. Yet they had lots of views, lots of likes, and lots of comments of the highest praise imaginable. WTF is going on? Seems we live in a different world than the one I know. Oops, now I sound grouchy :(

 

I attended the Montreux Jazz Festival in the early 80"s. The non-jazz artist included to draw people was Stevie Ray Vaughn. He blew the roof off the place!

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Ya

Well I hate to say anything negative because to me the guy comes off as sincere with what he"s creating. Plus I think he"s a decent pianist. He doesn"t move me but obviously he moves others. Is it jazz? I guess it depends on the definition one chooses. Is Keith Jarrett"s Koln Concert jazz? It sounds to me like FKJ is aspiring for that type of aesthetic. For me, FKJ"s performance isn"t jazz but incorporates some jazzy sounds.

 

On a somewhat related note my daughter"s best friend asked me to play her wedding ceremony next month. She sent me the original recordings of the songs she wants (country and pop songs) and also piano covers she found on YouTube. A couple of the piano covers are what I would call amateur performances. Yet they had lots of views, lots of likes, and lots of comments of the highest praise imaginable. WTF is going on? Seems we live in a different world than the one I know. Oops, now I sound grouchy :(

 

I attended the Montreux Jazz Festival in the early 80"s. The non-jazz artist included to draw people was Stevie Ray Vaughn. He blew the roof off the place!

 

Reminds me of the outrage over Kenny G. He sold a boatload of records and inspired sound alike music for the next decade and beyond regardless of fans and detractors. Was it jazz? Was it 'good'? Ear of the beholder.

 

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Yeah, I don't get it. I'm all for people creating music and expressing themselves, whatever their abilities. But when top institutions promote it as representing something worthy of being at the pinnacle of our concert and performance experience... I have to shake my head.

 

There are so many truly great players of all ages, to promote this bland noodling as worthy of our time seriously disappoints me. And I don't believe that it all has to be about chops. There are plenty of young players/bands whose videos come around and everyone marvels at their technique and production values, which far exceed my abilities. But many leave me cold because they are too "choppy" and frenetic.

 

I wish this guy well, but come on Montreux... you should know better, and you have plenty of people to pick and promote.

 

Jerry

 

 

 

 

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He's a bit samey, it's true. And that Montreux performance was like "I know this scale and that scale. And I know these four chords. What if I do this scale with this chord? Now this scale with that chord?". There was no sense of motion, of tension/release, of setup and resolution.

 

I quite liked the Tom Misch collab though (Misch is cool: check out "Money" with Michael Kiwanuka - can you say Shalamar?), but would have preferred a "100% constitutes live performance" groove to the looping.

 

Cheers, Mike.

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Reminds me of the outrage over Kenny G. He sold a boatload of records and inspired sound alike music for the next decade and beyond regardless of fans and detractors. Was it jazz? Was it 'good'? Ear of the beholder.

 

Nice take, I immediately thought of the 2019 version of Kenny G (who I liked for the same reasons as FKJ although I would never listen to him. I did sometimes listen to Kenny G as I liked his tone on soprano.

 

I don't mind the performance for what it is ( I did listen to whole video.) If people get some kind of pleasure, good for them and FKJ, but Pleeeease don't call this jazz in the literal sense. :facepalm:

 

I feel bad for anyone giving this kind of performance repeated listens. It seems with repeated listening, there would be an epidemic in the world like the movie, Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

 

AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251

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For me, and has been noted by a few posters on this thread, it's not about whether this is jazz or not, or whether one is being elitist by expressing any negative criticism. It's the extreme disconnect between what I hear and how it's being presented and promoted. Put it this way: if I was the director of a high school jazz band and a pianist auditioned for me and played like this, I would probably pass on the person â or at least encourage them to work harder at improving themselves. Now the Montreux Jazz Festival is proudly showcasing such a performance for the online world.

 

Yes Elmer, of course Kenny G sells a lot of records â probably more than Coltrane ever did. I could care less about that, I'm not one to be bitter or angry that "smooth" or "pop" or "jazz-lite" is more accessible or popular than "real" jazz, that's been the case for a long time and I understand why. I actually think a lot of that is the musicians' fault but that might be a topic for another thread, maybe on another forum too. In this case though, I really think it"s more than the 'ear of the beholder.' What I hear are very simple diatonic (and repetitive) chord progressions that a lot of beginning jazz students might play. That"s fine â post them on your youtube channel or facebook. Montreux Jazz Festival?

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Corollary - how many times have you heard something called "jazz" because it had no vocals/lyrics? This seems like that. Once in a while, it seems like he started something that I thought sounded like actual jazz, and then he went somewhere else before he developed it fully. :idk:

 

FKJ can play piano better than some guy you might grab off the street, but I'm not sure he should have a spot like that at the festival. Clearly from the comments, people didn't know he could play piano at all, so to them, this seems like a big deal.

if I was the director of a high school jazz band and a pianist auditioned for me and played like this, I would probably pass on the person â or at least encourage them to work harder at improving themselves.

I would ask them to play something else, or if they could, something that was appropriate to the gig. OTOH, you'd question his initial choice to play at the audition for the gig and here, I would question the choice of playing like this for a big jazz festival. So I think we agree, basically.

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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For me, and has been noted by a few posters on this thread, it's not about whether this is jazz or not, or whether one is being elitist by expressing any negative criticism. It's the extreme disconnect between what I hear and how it's being presented and promoted. Put it this way: if I was the director of a high school jazz band and a pianist auditioned for me and played like this, I would probably pass on the person â or at least encourage them to work harder at improving themselves. Now the Montreux Jazz Festival is proudly showcasing such a performance for the online world.

 

Yes Elmer, of course Kenny G sells a lot of records â probably more than Coltrane ever did. I could care less about that, I'm not one to be bitter or angry that "smooth" or "pop" or "jazz-lite" is more accessible or popular than "real" jazz, that's been the case for a long time and I understand why. I actually think a lot of that is the musicians' fault but that might be a topic for another thread, maybe on another forum too. In this case though, I really think it"s more than the 'ear of the beholder.' What I hear are very simple diatonic (and repetitive) chord progressions that a lot of beginning jazz students might play. That"s fine â post them on your youtube channel or facebook. Montreux Jazz Festival?

 

I understand. To me the improv was very shallow, melodically, harmonically and rhythmically. Like Tim said, it's "jazzy" or "jazz"-ish but it's not jazz. And like Dave said - nothing surprises us anymore about programming at a Jazz festival.

Someone brought up Stevie Ray Vaughan - oh man, from what we've seen from FKJ here - that's a no-comparison.

But on the other hand, he's making music someone is digging it. If it wasn't "jazz"-ish sounding and on the ticket at Montreux we wouldn't be talking about it. We can leave it at that.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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For all those here bagging this guy out, well, post some examples of YOUR playing....pure solo stuff. I for one would be keen to compare the "great" players here and their chops with this guy.

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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He's a bit samey, it's true. And that Montreux performance was like "I know this scale and that scale. And I know these four chords. What if I do this scale with this chord? Now this scale with that chord?". There was no sense of motion, of tension/release, of setup and resolution.

 

This! His performance was interesting for a little bit, but then it got old quick.

Granted, he's a much better player than I am. Obviously very talented.

But I agree with Reezekeys that he doesn't deserve all the "OMG he's the greatest ever" comments.

 

But then again, if ZZ Top (who I like well enough) played Montreux, well then I guess it's more of Jazz-ish Festival.

 

FWIW, I couldn't listen to the Chick Corea / Herbie Hancock video either.

I was too embarassed for Herbie.

... it's like he couldn't get a good lick in. It was all Chick.

Almost seems like Chick was sabotaging Herbie.

Nah, I'm probably imagining there was any rivalry.

 

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FWIW, I couldn't listen to the Chick Corea / Herbie Hancock video either.

I was too embarassed for Herbie.

... it's like he couldn't get a good lick in. It was all Chick.

Almost seems like Chick was sabotaging Herbie.

Nah, I'm probably imagining there was any rivalry.

Are you referring to the Chick/Herbie video posted in this thread? The one of them on the Merv Griffin Show?

 

Should I break this to you... nah...

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Did he actually perform solo piano at the festival? My impression of the video is that it's a special one-off thing. I think his actual Montreux performances have been with his full setup. Dunno if that really changes anything for anyone.

As I said, my whole premise for starting this thread was his solo piano performance, NOT his "full setup" rig where he's doing what he usually does â which I think he's good at; that's his thing and he does it well! It's the solo piano performance I'm a little dubious over â that and only that!

 

To answer your question, I believe he did perform solo piano at the festival â but looking at the video, it appears he was at a smaller "club"-size space, not the main hall where the big acts play (you know, the jazz groups like ZZ Top :/ ). It's possible â but I don't know for sure â that he did perform in the hall with his loopy-electro act.

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There's a startling gap between the artistry you hear in his looping versus the aimless noodling in this vid. I didn't expect him to be great, but I also didn't expect him to sound like a 14 year old who just discovered the blues scale.

 

On the other hand, is it his fault that someone acting under the auspices of the storied Montreaux Jazz Festival decided to squeeze every possible hit and click out of his popularity? Of course not. I'm not sure who deserves to drink my bile for this offense, but I'm sure it's not JKF.

 

JKF did not superimpose his playing over a recording of Thelonius Monk. Nor did he ask a technical question without first reading the manual in 4 different languages or try to find the answer using 6 search engines. So I'm inclined to go easy on the lad.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

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He sat down and did a 20 minute piano improv on one of the free stages in front of what sounds like about 20 people, with the side benefit of getting a promo video out of it. His main set was first on a sold out three act bill on the fourth biggest stage at the festival. The kid's a talented multi instrumentalist, trying to make his way in the music business. How is that done other than trying to impress fans with promos?

For those of you who pretend to know what Montreux is just because it has jazz in its name, look at the 2019 lineup here: https://www.montreuxjazzfestival.com/2019/MJF_Programme_Flyer.pdf . I hardly think a festival with Sting, Janet Jackson, Tom Jones and the Chemical Brothers on the lineup needs to rely on this guy to get

hits on their YT channel

 

Who's done what wrong here to attract KC's righteous ire? The muso trying to make his way, the festival, the fans?

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He sat down and did a 20 minute piano improv on one of the free stages in front of what sounds like about 20 people, with the side benefit of getting a promo video out of it. His main set was first on a sold out three act bill on the fourth biggest stage at the festival. The kid's a talented multi instrumentalist, trying to make his way in the music business. How is that done other than trying to impress fans with promos?

For those of you who pretend to know what Montreux is just because it has jazz in its name, look at the 2019 lineup here: https://www.montreuxjazzfestival.com/2019/MJF_Programme_Flyer.pdf . I hardly think a festival with Sting, Janet Jackson, Tom Jones and the Chemical Brothers on the lineup needs to rely on this guy to get

hits on their YT channel

 

Who's done what wrong here to attract KC's righteous ire? The muso trying to make his way, the festival, the fans?

 

I couldn't agree with this more.

 

It's a big world. There's room for all of us in it.

 

Obviously he has some deficits. He's also got some strengths. I can't get too worked up either way, it is just a planet orbiting a neighboring star...

 

Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material.
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Nope.

Just.

Nope.

 

This kind of s***t gets me tight.

It just shows how far standards have dropped that FKJ is marketed as 'jazz'.

And then, people who DONT know this music associate THIS stuff with 'jazz'

It"s the Kenny G syndrome all over!

For the record, there"s people out there who adeptly and convincingly mix many different styles, but his solo piano doesn't fall in that category.

 

 

I"m with reezekeys and jeerythek on this one!

 

To play a particular genre of music (no matter what it happens to be) one has to learn the grammar and syntax of the genre in question. Anyone who has really studied the music called 'jazz' can hear he hasn't put that kind of time in.

 

his other stuff is ok and he"s a talented guy, but, sorry.

Stay in your lane, dude!

 

 

Btw I love the shred videos and the Groiner episodes! ;-)

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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