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A Minor Scale and Backing Track #3006029 09/01/19 07:23 PM
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Larryz Offline OP
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Playing around on YouTube, I ran across this clip and thought I would post it for those that are learning their scales seeking to learn some improvisation concepts. It is a pretty cool presentation of the Aminor Aeolian Scale and the Aminor Pentatonic Scale chart with a backing track. It shows the octave and interval pattern correlation using both scales. (I like to add the b5 between the 4 and 5 to my Pentatonic scales). The author posts a lot of minor scales with charts and backing tracks if you search on his name. They are all the same scale just using different starting points for the key you wish to play in...




Here's the same Aminor scale being used to play over a Cmajor chord pattern



Or, how about moving the same pattern(s) and intervals up to Dminor @ 0:53 to play a little jazz?




Have fun with it! cool


Take care, Larryz
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Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3006053 09/01/19 10:42 PM
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Way cool Larryz, I use the same scenario when playing over certain progressions, in other words, I play an A minor tune using A minor pentatonic and mix in the full Aeolian (Natural Minor) scale when needed for effect. When I play over a country tune I use the same A Minor (and Pentatonic) scale only it is called C Major (Ionian) (and Pentatonic) against a C progression. (Thank you to the late Emily Remler for hipping me to the modes, and how to apply them)


dbm
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Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3006079 09/02/19 02:27 AM
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Thanks DBM, After reading many of your posts on this subject in the past, I knew we were on the same page. Until now I couldn't find a good chart on YouTube to show what we were both describing. I hope this helps some of the players out there with their improvisation scale work using the Aeolian and Pentatonic Minor scales interchangeably. The pattern in this scale will open the door to all the others. I hope they will grab their guitar and put on these YT clips and play what comes from the heart and to their ear...the intervals on the chart will help players remember certain sounds that can referred back to and will help with chord study as well. cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3006162 09/02/19 07:55 PM
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@Larryz cheers


dbm
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http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3006290 09/03/19 03:48 PM
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OK, so I got my acoustic guitar out just now and played along with the charts and backing track(s) again using my lap top...and a few of thoughts came to mind. 1). playing in 3 different genres in major and minor keys, gave me some new ideas and ear training while zeroing in on the intervals. 2). playing with a band (instead of a metronome) makes practice a lot more fun and interesting while working on my timing. 3). I would change the b6 on the chart to a #5, as that's an important sound and a better way of remembering it for augmenting chords, etc. IMHO. 4). my next step is to plug this lap top into my amp/pa to make things more fun and really improve the sound while playing over the 3 backing tracks using my electric guitars. 5). might as well record these 3 tracks on my looper and be ready to call them up any time for practice without needing to use the lap top again until I want to stare at the charts some more...and then it's back to my acoustic LOL! cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3006350 09/03/19 08:22 PM
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Cool. cool


Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

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Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3006411 09/04/19 02:49 AM
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Larryz Offline OP
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thu


Take care, Larryz
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3007162 09/08/19 08:58 PM
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Update: I recorded the 3 YouTube backing tracks on 3 separate loops on my Digitec looper and they came out great at just the right volumes for playback on my Roland Cube Street EX4. Hard to believe how much better the YouTube clips sound when using the bigger speakers and amp adjustments, than just using the lap top speakers. I played along with them one at a time which takes a total of 25 minutes max for all 3. A great way to start a practice and review session. Lots of fun and I'm already hearing some new improvisational licks along the way. My new Conti guitar sounded great playing over the tracks and I made some nice adjustments on it for tone and volume while playing along as well... cool

Last edited by Larryz; 09/08/19 09:03 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009047 09/22/19 02:47 PM
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Larryz Offline OP
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<Bump> We have about 300+ views on this thread with very few comments (i.e. 7 or 8), so I'm thinking a lot of players out there are revisiting the OP and seeing the correlation of the Pentatonic Minor and Aeolian Minor scales and playing along with the backing tracks. We have a new member (Music With Marky) that has a YouTube video on how to dress up your pentatonic scales by adding just one note from the diatonic scales (i.e. 2nd, 6th, b5, b3, major 3rd, etc.) I think it would help to juice things up on the Pentatonic if I post his video here and I will be studying his ideas while using the charts in this thread's OP. Check it out:





Hope this is fun and useful. I have mentioned adding the b5 to my pentatonic minor scales. I add the same note to my major Pentatonic scale. When charting out the relative major Ionian and Pentatonic scale (using the same concepts in the Aeolian and minor Pentatonic scale in the OP) the b3 serves in the major Pentatonic the same function as the b5 in the minor Pentatonic...Anyway, Thanks MWM! thu

Last edited by Larryz; 09/22/19 02:53 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009098 09/22/19 09:30 PM
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Neat post Larryz, I definitely use the half step notes by adding some of those from the full major or minor scale to my pentatonic scale use.


dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
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Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009139 09/23/19 03:36 AM
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Thanks so much for sharing this, dude! I've been teaching 30 years and haven't charged a student for a lesson in over 20. I have a full time career - but I just love passing on info to people eager to learn. So, finally I dragged my butt to YouTube to share what I can with a larger audience. I'm also finding out (based on comments) just how much I suck. =]


Music With Marky - A YouTube Channel For Guitarists Who Want To Make Better Music
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009190 09/23/19 02:34 PM
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Larryz Offline OP
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@ MWM, I'm glad it's OK with you that I shared your YT video on the forum. I think it fit right in with the OP helping to get some new ideas out there. We post a ton of YT clips by all sorts of bands, artists, music, training, equipment demos, pedals, etc., but encourage people just posting their own music to do it on the "Post Your Music Here" thread part of this forum. I think you play very well and there is no way that you suck, the common thread among the critics is most of them suck LOL! Each of us plays at a different level. I'm pretty much on the bottom feeder level, but for some reason I keep trying to teach this old dog new tricks. Now and then I get on a theory kick and I plan to spend more time on it now. My last gig will be at a wedding this November and after that, I plan to just play at parties with my buds and have fun learning at home. I'm always on the lookout for new ideas and concepts and ways to understand our most favored instrument. Teaching for free (and even when charging) can be very rewarding. It helps you learn even more, when preparing lessons for others... thu

@ DBM, +1 on adding notes from the full major or minor scales to the Pentatonic. I love switching back and forth too. I'm always adding the b5 to the minor (or b3 to the major) so my 5 note scale is really a 6 note. The 5 positions of the Pentatonic also help me remember where I'm at with the major and minor scale frameworks. Both of them create a great roadmap. I'm more of a pattern player and have no idea where I'm at note and interval wise most of the time LOL! But, I like to go back and [pick] up on the theory and fretboard study now and then. The minor pattern in the OP contains all of the 7 mode patterns once you learn to shift it (using the octave pattern contained in each of them) for the mode one wishes to play in... thu



Last edited by Larryz; 09/23/19 03:33 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009243 09/23/19 06:08 PM
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desertbluesman Offline
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Originally Posted by Larryz
@ DBM, +1 on adding notes from the full major or minor scales to the Pentatonic. I love switching back and forth too. I'm always adding the b5 to the minor (or b3 to the major) so my 5 note scale is really a 6 note. The 5 positions of the Pentatonic also help me remember where I'm at with the major and minor scale frameworks. Both of them create a great roadmap. I'm more of a pattern player and have no idea where I'm at note and interval wise most of the time LOL! But, I like to go back and [pick] up on the theory and fretboard study now and then. The minor pattern in the OP contains all of the 7 mode patterns once you learn to shift it (using the octave pattern contained in each of them) for the mode one wishes to play in... thu

I generally think in sound to sound not note names or what interval they are. I simply create my solos using scales either full Major or minor scales or Major or minor pentatonics with a few notes added from the full scales.

Plus there is always a few clams in the solo's here and there if my mind wanders a bit.

cheers


dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: desertbluesman] #3009268 09/23/19 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by desertbluesman
Originally Posted by Larryz
@ DBM, +1 on adding notes from the full major or minor scales to the Pentatonic. I love switching back and forth too. I'm always adding the b5 to the minor (or b3 to the major) so my 5 note scale is really a 6 note. The 5 positions of the Pentatonic also help me remember where I'm at with the major and minor scale frameworks. Both of them create a great roadmap. I'm more of a pattern player and have no idea where I'm at note and interval wise most of the time LOL! But, I like to go back and [pick] up on the theory and fretboard study now and then. The minor pattern in the OP contains all of the 7 mode patterns once you learn to shift it (using the octave pattern contained in each of them) for the mode one wishes to play in... thu

I generally think in sound to sound not note names or what interval they are. I simply create my solos using scales either full Major or minor scales or Major or minor pentatonics with a few notes added from the full scales.

Plus there is always a few clams in the solo's here and there if my mind wanders a bit.

cheers


"Clams" I like that. I have to use that!


Music With Marky - A YouTube Channel For Guitarists Who Want To Make Better Music
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009324 09/24/19 12:00 AM
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Formulae are great for learning new things
& everything's new to each of us at diff times
so there's nothing inherently wrong with them.
Music, like medicine, is an art of practice.

Personally, I've found that at some point one just hasta let go & play, as DMan said, sounds.
That's what takes us beyond formulae & more into the realm of what magic music can convey to ppl.

That's where new ideas get their start

FWIW....
Here's something that seems to fit the concept of the thread
but reveals itself to be something else entirely. rawk grin


d=halfnote
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009419 09/24/19 03:46 PM
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Larryz Offline OP
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+1 "Clams" is a term I have been familiar with for many years as Lord knows I've made my share LOL! In order to make an omelette you have to break a few eggs (without leaving a little piece of the shell in the mix). They are usually notes that fall outside of the key, scales, melody, etc. Que The Twilight Zone or Out of Limits...sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. When you are playing around with sounds, notes, intervals, patterns, clams, improvisation, etc., you'll know if it sounds good to you or if it's a clam. At home no one is the wiser. In front of an live audience it can be a little embarrassing. I've heard stories from the pros on how they deal with the clams as the audience will sometimes react with sour surprised looks on their faces. The main advice is to play through, don't apologize and don't stop. Sometimes you get away with it LOL! The pros will hit one now and then and see the sour faces and when the song comes back around they will repeat the same clam and make a joke out of it and the audience/musicians laughs with them...or if it's their own improv, they can sometimes make it work and get away with it...


My buddies and I were practicing an oldies tune that we will be playing at a wedding next month. When the song came to a certain chord (there was a much bigger clam than the certain note clam) my buddy hit a B7 instead of a D7. It threw me off on the vocal and I thought that I must of hit a clam and played the wrong chord. I almost got lost but remembered to play on. When the song came back around to the chorus, my buddy hit that B7 again and it stopped me in my tracks. My memory faded and I was lost again LOL! Anyway, we discovered that we needed to make a correction. I told my bud that there are lots of B7's in the verse but in the chorus I always used a D to a D7. He said he always played it with a B7, but he would play the D7 for me. I thanked him and said at least we'll both be playing the same chord. I looked it up as I didn't want to steer him or myself in the wrong direction. It is a D7. This is just a good reason to "practice" most of those "sounds" before taking them out to a live audience... cool

Last edited by Larryz; 09/24/19 03:52 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009422 09/24/19 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Larryz
+1 "Clams" is a term I have been familiar with for many years as Lord knows I've made my share LOL!


I might hit a few in each song during early practice sessions, after I get warmed up I hit fewer clams. Sometimes they fit, other times, oops.........
cheers


dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009423 09/24/19 04:01 PM
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cheers


Take care, Larryz
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Music With Marky] #3009475 09/24/19 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Music With Marky
"Clams" I like that. I have to use that!


I plagiarized that one from Larryz.


dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009485 09/24/19 09:20 PM
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Larryz Offline OP
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@ DBM, That term has been around for so long that I can't lay claim to it or remember if it was the jazzers that came up with it LOL! Maybe it's a West Coast thing as I remember going clamming at Pismo Beach back in the '70's... cool


Take care, Larryz
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009504 09/24/19 10:17 PM
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Common Jazz slang, it's been around forever.


Scott Fraser
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009593 09/25/19 02:15 PM
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Larryz Offline OP
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+1 Scott, I went on a jazz site last night and about half of the jazzers said they never heard of the term! Then I went on Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_jazz_and_popular_music and found this: "clam
A slang term which refers to a mis-played or out of tune note, often by a horn player, but even more often and more regrettably by a too-loud guitar player who plays a painfully wrong note."

I first heard the tune from a friend/teacher that clued me into playing improvisation from the scales. "The scales help you avoid the clams". This was back around '79. I only studied with him for about 3 months as I was moving to a distant city. I've been in search of how to improvise ever since and I'm still on that journey. Speaking of which, while cruising around on YouTube, I found this Sax player teaching the basics of how to improvise using a major scale. I have heard a lot of guitar players recommend listening to the horn players: single note runs, taking a breath, phrasing, timing, chord tones, etc., as a way to make improvisation more tasty. So here's a sax lesson I found on YT which I think is a cool way to figure out a strategy to make your scales (major or minor) more valuable. This is a G major improvisation sax lesson that can be applied to any instrument:




cool


Last edited by Larryz; 09/25/19 03:29 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009641 09/25/19 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Larryz
@ DBM, That term has been around for so long that I can't lay claim to it or remember if it was the jazzers that came up with it LOL! Maybe it's a West Coast thing as I remember going clamming at Pismo Beach back in the '70's... cool
I lived in Shell Beach for a few weeks around that time amigo. We used to go to Pismo shopping and touristing.Then we moved to a town called Lewistion Ca. way up north in Ca. near Lewistoin Lake, and later moved into a cabin in Weaverville. And we stayed there off an on for several years. Some of my hippy buddies from back east went to the Height in the late 80's and "went back to the land" in Northern Ca in the early 70's so when I heard where they were all staying in Lewiston I moseyed on up there and got familiar with that part of Cali.

And I did steal the "clam" note name from your posts on GP mag forums.


dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
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Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009655 09/25/19 06:43 PM
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OT: My last surfing/camping trip was down in Pismo Beach in 1990 at the age of 40. Too crowded to teach my son by the peer where the locals were so we moved down to mile marker 14. We camped with friends at the beach camp ground. Rode the dunes in our jeeps. Played guitars all night by the campfire rings on the beach. Stayed about a week. We would also go to the movies in or near Shell Beach and get pizzas to go. Took the jeeps through the car wash on the way out to wash the salt water off the under carriage from the little stream we had to cross to get to the water. Had a great time... thu

ps. feel free to harvest all my clams LOL! thu

Last edited by Larryz; 09/26/19 03:10 AM. Reason: ps.

Take care, Larryz
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009733 09/26/19 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Larryz

ps. feel free to harvest all my clams LOL! thu


I used to tread for clams when I was a teenager. I had a speed boat and I would go to the mud flats and tread for clams, I would get a hundred and had gas money for the boat and lunch in the bay (opening the clams and eating them raw) I learned how to bring the clams up my leg with the other foot so I did not get my Fonzie jitterbug hair wet.
cheers


dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009741 09/26/19 03:06 AM
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OT: We used to harvest those Pismo Claims found only at Pismo Beach at low tide down by the peer. We used a clamming fork (which is a small pitch fork with thick tines). I think the limit was 10 each and they had to be 4 or 6"s across. We had a little special 4 or 6" clam scale to measure them with (I can't recall which). They were big and very tasty though. I remember some Vietnamese people on the beach caught by the game wardens with about 100 undersized clams all laid out for the pictures getting ticketed...felt sorry for them as they just didn't know the rules. The Game Wardens were being a bit of the A-hole variety as all they had to do was throw them back in the ocean. But I guess the poachers did have to be policed or they would deplete the numbers if they kept coming back LOL! I ate a couple raw undersized ones when the wardens weren't looking LOL! cool

Last edited by Larryz; 09/26/19 03:02 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009816 09/26/19 03:35 PM
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My understanding is that the Pismo clams have pretty much been completely depleted for a number of years now. I have family in Shell Beach & they say clamming has pretty much been over since the 1980s.


Scott Fraser
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009831 09/26/19 04:15 PM
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Larryz Offline OP
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That's probably true Scott...my last surfing trip to Pismo was in 1990. My last clamming trip was in 1979...so I have lost track of the clams. Now if I can just do that on the guitar LOL! cool

but seriously, I would hate to see the clams disappear at Pismo...


Take care, Larryz
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009871 09/26/19 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Larryz
I would hate to see the clams disappear at Pismo...


I think they're now a protected species, so no hunting allowed.


Scott Fraser
Re: A Minor Scale and Backing Track [Re: Larryz] #3009875 09/26/19 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Larryz
OT: We used to harvest those Pismo Claims found only at Pismo Beach at low tide down by the peer. We used a clamming fork (which is a small pitch fork with thick tines)


We had clam rakes and clammer tongs which were like a big rake on both sides and two handles so you would open up the tongs, shove them down in the mud and close them and bring up whatever you grabbed with them. I never used them as I was definitely not going to make my living in the bay, (we lived on an Island 6 miles out to sea and 18 miles long and the bay was 18 miles long & 2 to 6 miles wide) so the bay was very well stocked with fish, clams, crabs, and mussels.


dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick
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