Organ registrations for loud hard rock

[EricBarker]

I play in a very loud rock party band. I've come to use B3 on a lot of material that otherwise doesn't really have keyboards. In that context, I find myself mostly pulling down all the drawbars. Even when playing hard rock songs that DO have B3 (Whipping Post, Radar Love, etc), I find registration changes don't really make a lick of difference, and particularly on solos, I just have to crank it. It's frustrating, because I'd really love to work the timbre changes more, and bone up on a lot of the classic settings. I love softer material like "Don't Dream it's Over" where a very particular sound can be heard.

 

I'm wondering what other people and feel is best for balls to the walls rock. Are there some harmonics that get in the way and actually make things muddier in these situations? I've always wondered. I'm in the back of the stage and have no way of knowing how it sounds in FoH.

[mate stubb]

I assume you are talking about live sound on stage, as one can hear anything in IEMs or with good monitors. Here's the thing about organ: it has such a wide dynamic range from a single drawbar to full 8's that you need to be able to hear yourself really well at that whole volume spectrum.

 

You can always go Jon Lord on them (get a Marshall.)

 

Or you can go high powered leslie on them. I have a 1500W leslie rig and it projects with authority any registration I choose to use.

 

But trying to use an old tube leslie will cause you to be dominated by guitars. So you have to either get it into the monitors loud enough to give you some dynamic range or get some stout stage amplification.

[Konnector]

Yes.....what mate stubb said above. You'll need enough monitor power to hear a single drawbar setting cut through the mix if that's the sound you choose to use....and then you'll have ample juice handy when you yank all those drawbars out and blow the guitar players clean off the stage!

[SamuelBLupowitz]

I hear you on getting drowned out when things get loud. Gain staging is something I have to play with all the time on organ because drawbars alter volume as well as tone, so a reasonable range on the swell pedal on a song where you go from one drawbar out to screaming full drawbars is tricky. One of my bands, Noon Fifteen, covers CSN's "Wooden Ships," and the drawbar settings range from all drawbars out/Leslie fast/C3 chorus in the intro, to 8' drawbar only in the verses, and everything in between. Sometimes I just have to tweak the master volume and gain on my Nord from section to section, no matter how much I'm working the swell pedal. Or I'm just screaming in the loud parts, and I start getting looks from my bandmates...

 

I gravitate to the the stereotypical first four drawbars out for a basic "rock" sound, sometimes with C3 to give it a little excitement without having to have the Leslie on fast the whole time. That same band just started doing a Deep Purple-esque original where I'm basically playing heavy metal rhythm guitar on the organ, and it's a mix of root-fifth voicings and a lot of rhythmic key slaps to simulate palm muting. I do that on 888800000, with the overdrive turned up on my Nord. When I'm rehearsing with the built-in sim, it's just the turn of a knob; what I've started doing onstage where I run through a Motion Sound rotary speaker is turn on the Marshall amp sim on the Nord and get the drive there, pre-rotary). Too much overdrive can muddy it up too, of course, but the right amount helps it cut. But I can still run into issues when things start escalating, and/or I start soloing; I very often wind up with all the drawbars out before I want to hit the ceiling (or, conversely, I try to get all John Medeski and do aggressive drawbar manipulation during a solo, but just lose too much volume and power by removing harmonics).

 

Key click is your friend, too. If I'm not mistaken, you play a Mojo 61 -- does that have the continuous control knob for click like the dual Mojo? I know some people find too much distracting, but I love it.

 

Josh Paxton told a great story on the forum after Art Neville died about playing Art's B3, where the percussion was so loud it tore his head off. Apparently it was so he could be heard over Leo's guitar. The struggle is real.

[drawback]

I"d rather use click than percussion in a loud rock setting. A lot of times without a full range in the mix, I hear the percussion harmonics too up front, with nothing in support, to my ears sounding like the wrong notes (apples to oranges, but Time Of The Season comes to mind). If you must use percussion, I"d go with 2, fast decay, low level. Otherwise, you"re good with click, which you can dial up on the front panel of your Mojo61.

 

Just a preference and for hard rock only. Jazz/Gospel are different animals.

 

 

[MAJUSCULE]

Yeah, sounds like more of a monitoring/stage volume issue to me. I tend to stick to 888000000 or 888800000 with the octave sometimes thrown in. There are times for full stops but I find it overbearing harmonically if it's overused.

[Steve Nathan]

What model Leslie? What brand of 6550s?

[Delaware Dave]

I don't pull drawbars to be heard, i use the drawbars for texture. I run my rig through a 1000 watt EV speaker and have no issue hearing myself even if i have only the single 8 drawbar pull out. And I can't even remember the last time I pulled out all the stops.....

[Jim Alfredson]

For hard rock I usually use 888 800 000

[Doerfler]

For hard rock I usually use 888 800 000

 

of course you do

 

[WesG]

You need support from the PA in order to be able to use the organ to its fullest in a loud situation.

 

Get a f--- ton of Leslie in your wedge, and make sure plenty is coming out the FOH.

 

An organ that is playing balls out for the entire night just to keep up with the band is not being used to its full potential. I play a lot of classic rock. My go-to registrations are 8888, 888888888, 888, 008, 83888226, 668, and octave transpositions thereof (ie 00686 instead of 668). With and without C3. 888888 soft 2nd is worth mentioning, too. Stole that from Benmont (Refugee). I also like to solo with stuff like 0888 fast normal 2nd. The missing sub fundamental is wack.

[Tom Williams]

Disclaimer: I play my organ parts on a Kurzweil PC361; B3 and Actual Leslie may vary -- make that "will" vary, even from one B3 to another...

 

On rock I default to 888, C1 (almost dry), Percussion 3rd Harmonic, fast, and (usually) soft. Most notably, though, I add some overdrive, approximately 0.25 Lords, to provide grit when comping and add a bit of extra punch when I go high and loud. As mentioned elsewhere, I use Bill W's Leslie effect setting, and send that straight to the PA system with no backline speakers. I listen through IEMs, and other band members listen through wedges.

[mate stubb]

If you're ever in my neck of the woods stop by, and you can give the Spinning Wall of Leslie Death a whirl:

 

 

http://www.hotrodmotm.com/sounds/roadbox/decimator.jpg

[WesG]

moe - I'd like to know more about your motors?

[mate stubb]

moe - I'd like to know more about your motors?

 

The motors are not stock leslie motors. They are single speed something or other that Speakeasy sourced, and use Caribbean Controller boards for slow speed. They are not the greatest - they are light weight but get pretty warm when you leave it on slow for hours.

 

What I should do is replace them with single stack OEM leslie motors. They would handle the motor control board better.

[WesG]

The next time you have them out, could you snap a picture of the plate? That might be useful for a project I have been consulting on with BookerLab. They have a nice motor controller, but the motors aren't quiet enough.

[mate stubb]

Will do.