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Important or Not? #3005238 08/27/19 03:45 AM
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Delta Offline OP
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I have one grandson who lives 3,000 miles away but we do get young kids coming into our home once in awhile, Friends and relatives. I always make a point of taking the kids (and adults for that matter) into my little music studio to show them my guitars, gear and DAW set up. The kids always get excited. The parents, for the most part, not so much. It's like, "well isn't that nice". Hope for the future? I'm not hearing it in today's music. 99% of it is dreadful.


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Re: Important or Not? [Re: Delta] #3005239 08/27/19 03:59 AM
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Theodore Sturgeon’s Second Law- a.k.a. Sturgeons Revelation- states “90% of everything is crap.”

Thing is, the music world has become much more balkanized, and its harder for the truly good and great bands to catch people’s attention. There’s so much noise in relation to the signal...

But there are also plenty of people who love music out there, and either become musicians themselves and/or present the good stuff to those around them. Sometimes, it’s not even obvious, like when genuine musicheads ensure commercials or video games include the good stuff. Or homages to them.

I remember one commercial from years ago that featured a familiar jazzy progression that I knew. A friend hanging out with me that day watched in amazement as I walked over to my 5k+ CD collection and put Billy Cobham’s “Stratus” on my sound system. It wasn’t a cover, but it was damn close- you know how they do.

That’s not an accident. Someone did that with music aforethought.

Last edited by Dannyalcatraz; 08/27/19 04:02 AM.

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Re: Important or Not? [Re: Delta] #3005252 08/27/19 05:47 AM
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Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted by Delta
...we do get young kids coming into our home once in awhile... I always make a point of taking the kids...into my little music studio to show them my guitars, gear and DAW set up. The kids always get excited. Hope for the future?



Hope for the future? YES. Those kids getting excited is a good sign; encourage them, get them interested, help them make songs and recordings.


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Re: Important or Not? [Re: Delta] #3005290 08/27/19 01:50 PM
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Children are generally open to new things, except maybe vegetables, and they haven't told themselves that they can't play an instrument, so the possibilities excite them. Too many adults have already convinced themselves that they can't play, or that it's not a worthwhile use of their time, so it just doesn't reach them the same way.

I perform at a nearby event called Robotfest, which is pretty much what the name suggests. Generally, I'll bring a few strange toys, and a compact Synth. The people who are most interested in what I'm doing with all my Music gadgets are young people.

High school age, at least here in the U.S., seems to be the break point: I find that if someone hasn't been drawn to Music somewhere between 4th Grade and 8th Grade, say 10 to 14 years old, they may never take up an instrument. When I worked in Music retail, I also saw a lot of people in their 40's and 50's who'd set aside their Guitars or what-have-you 25 or 30 years ago, and finally decided to take it up again. Of course, very few of them were interested in creating new Music, they mostly wanted to learn to play the songs they loved growing up. Interestingly, their children weren't involved; maybe it wasn't cool to play the Guitar, if your dad already did.


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Re: Important or Not? [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #3005296 08/27/19 02:21 PM
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p90jr Offline
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Culture moves on...

My daughter, who a few years ago liked to sit and sing Beatles songs with me, informed me the other day in the car - at the age of 7 - "Dad... I don't know how to break it to you... I don't like the music you always play..." My tastes are pretty varied and I jump around, so that covered the gamut of American music: country, blues, jazz, rock and roll, rock, British invasion, soul, R&B, funk, disco, pop, yacht rock, new jack swing and old hip hop, hard rock, indie rock, punk, right up to some current hit things that strike my fancy, Since we have one of the Amazon Echo things in the car I let her program the music for the trip by voice command. "Old Town Road" and the new Billie Eilish single got played 4 times each... then some teen sensation songs... the point is that I'm not supposed to know or like that stuff, it's supposed to belong to her. I had to consider how musically suffocating I must be to live with... My dad played jazz constantly, I didn't dislike it or avoid it, but I had rock and punk and new wave to myself, which he thought was a crime against humanity. I'm "hip" to everything, and I don't leave her any space... she wants some independence... it's an important part of developing your own personality. I had an intern here at work who came in, looked at some CDs I had lying around in the office and said "man... you like the same stuff my parents like... they had me when they were 18 and they're too young and they love indie rock... they're always trying to get me to go see Radiohead or some crap with them... my Dad wants us all to go to some techno music festival in the desert together... that's why my brother and I love metal, my parents can't stand it!"

Every generation wants its own thing, and I think it's gotten to the point where that thing is even something other than music, altogether. Maybe "memes" are the new "songs" that kids share with each other... they generally serve the same social purpose. People watch TV series in binges the way they used to listen to albums. I don't know...

Music is different from "the music business." I love the former and loathe the latter...the music business is perpetually dying in some way or other, can "music" exist without it? Is it better off without it?

Re: Important or Not? [Re: Delta] #3005347 08/27/19 06:29 PM
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I have 3 grandkids playing instruments, soccer, flag football, basketball, school plays, etc. and old grandpa is always in the audience...these extra activities opens their minds and gives them a feeling of accomplishment. It doesn't matter whether or not they stick with anyone thing but I am glad that music and entertaining has entered into their lives. I would love to see them go on and become great artists but I also understand that just might not be in the cards. I just enjoy being involved whenever I can and I know they still like having me showing my appreciation and support.

As for music in my life, my music is what is important and I can entertain myself with what I like to play and study. I'm not that interested in the new music that is out there and seldom listen to it (or even my old stuff) anymore. I think I'm finally getting ready to head in my own direction and do some creating and writing...I no longer wish to gig or travel or hump equipment. I'm more into just relaxing in my home atmosphere and play for my own enjoymetn. I may do an open mic now and then. I have one or two gigs I'm committed to and after that I'm free! abduct

Last edited by Larryz; 08/27/19 06:30 PM.

Take care, Larryz
Re: Important or Not? [Re: p90jr] #3005395 08/27/19 09:54 PM
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d / halfnote Offline
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I think yer question does raise an important point.
Kids get interested in what they're exposed to & music, while used as a mktg tool, etc, may not be as available in "pure" forms as much as in the past so it's good to expose them & also for them to know someone they can ask questions of or otherwise get info from, esp as it sounds as thoughtheir parents may not do that.
I'd make sure that the parents don't really mind what you do, else they may reverse all that once away from you !

I definitely second both of these opinions....
Originally Posted by Caevan O'Shite
Hope for the future? YES. Those kids getting excited is a good sign; encourage them, get them interested, help them make songs and recordings.

Originally Posted by p90jr
Culture moves on...

My daughter, who a few years ago liked to sit and sing Beatles songs with me, informed me the other day in the car - at the age of 7 - "Dad... I don't know how to break it to you... I don't like the music you always play..." My tastes are pretty varied and I jump around, so that covered the gamut of American music: country, blues, jazz, rock and roll, rock, British invasion, soul, R&B, funk, disco, pop, yacht rock, new jack swing and old hip hop, hard rock, indie rock, punk, right up to some current hit things that strike my fancy, Since we have one of the Amazon Echo things in the car I let her program the music for the trip by voice command. "Old Town Road" and the new Billie Eilish single got played 4 times each... then some teen sensation songs... the point is that I'm not supposed to know or like that stuff, it's supposed to belong to her. I had to consider how musically suffocating I must be to live with... My dad played jazz constantly, I didn't dislike it or avoid it, but I had rock and punk and new wave to myself, which he thought was a crime against humanity. I'm "hip" to everything, and I don't leave her any space... she wants some independence... it's an important part of developing your own personality. I had an intern here at work who came in, looked at some CDs I had lying around in the office and said "man... you like the same stuff my parents like... they had me when they were 18 and they're too young and they love indie rock... they're always trying to get me to go see Radiohead or some crap with them... my Dad wants us all to go to some techno music festival in the desert together... that's why my brother and I love metal, my parents can't stand it!"

Every generation wants its own thing, and I think it's gotten to the point where that thing is even something other than music, altogether. Maybe "memes" are the new "songs" that kids share with each other... they generally serve the same social purpose. People watch TV series in binges the way they used to listen to albums. I don't know...

Music is different from "the music business." I love the former and loathe the latter...the music business is perpetually dying in some way or other, can "music" exist without it? Is it better off without it?



I'd have to agree w/P90.
Most of us had preferences for certain more modern music when younger & as we grew older either kept some degree of openness to ongoing forms...others of us maybe not.
An important thing might be to chk what these kids like &, w/out twisting things too much try to nudge them into forms & styles that go in directions that seem good but still allow for their own sense of what's cool.
Possibly even hip them to old music that they might not hear elsewhere.


d=halfnote
Re: Important or Not? [Re: Delta] #3005493 08/28/19 03:14 PM
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Someone brought up on facebook that Sha Na Na played Woodstock, in 1969, playing music from the late 50s, and seemed incredibly corny and old fashioned.

Why should we expect a young person today to still stylistically want to recreate music from the 1960s and 1970s... in 2019. That's the equivalent thing that Tiny Tim was doing with his 1920s ukelele routine in the 60s...

Re: Important or Not? [Re: Delta] #3005542 08/28/19 07:30 PM
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I’m playing with some young cats. They are good players. I wish I had had the information access they have had when I was young. For what it’s worth .... around here most the good players seem to have cut their teeth playing in modern Protestant praise band situations. Their chops are good and their sound discipline is excellent. There is a local original music scene attracting young players but the musicianship seems much less than stellar in general.

My children are EXCELLENT musicians. So is my wife. I’m the worst musician in the house. She is a brass expert. The kids play / played in municipal bands and orchestras and in University symphonies. Heck I’m the worst musician in the house. The wife should shop for contest music for the kids and would sing the scores by sight and she is in concert pitch. The children want absolutely nothing to do with combo gigging. Probably saw what it did to their old man.

Last edited by CEB; 08/28/19 07:37 PM.

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Re: Important or Not? [Re: p90jr] #3005572 08/29/19 12:17 AM
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Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Originally Posted by p90jr
Someone brought up on facebook that Sha Na Na played Woodstock, in 1969, playing music from the late 50s, and seemed incredibly corny and old fashioned.

Why should we expect a young person today to still stylistically want to recreate music from the 1960s and 1970s... in 2019. That's the equivalent thing that Tiny Tim was doing with his 1920s ukelele routine in the 60s...


OTOH, retro bands can still carve out a notch in popular culture...if they’re delivering the goods or a fresh take. Look at Brian Setzer. Ot the resurgence of Tony Bennett’s career post RHCP shoutouts and album with Lady Gaga.

Me? I have no kids, but I have relatives of all ages. I can entertain or annoy them pretty much at will with my music- my CD collection is at 5000+ and covers a lot of territory, except most opera and C&W.

Still, even within genres I love, there are sub genres I dislike. Even though I can do the vox no prob, I don’t care for most modern metal with the “cookie monster” singing. And there’s a techno channel I don’t play anymore after listening to it in the background for several hours while working on a project- every other song had a section featuring the same (or some minor variation) of an accelerating break. Don’t know what it’s called technically, but I call it annoying and lazy as all hell.

Last edited by Dannyalcatraz; 08/29/19 12:26 AM.

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Re: Important or Not? [Re: Delta] #3005587 08/29/19 03:18 AM
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I think Sha Na Na did a great job of bringing back the 50's vibe...and +1 on Brian Setzer and the Stray Cats bringing it back again...Chris Isaak does a great job on his Sun Sessions album and his musical performances keeping the 50's hope alive too...I hope the kids coming up in the future will set the way back time machine to the old rock and roll and come up with the vibe again with a little twist. +1 on Bennet and GaGa, what a fantastic job they did as a duo on the old pop jazz standards. I love the old 30's and 40's vibe. I think this group of youngins: Postmodern Jukebox really gets me thinking there is hope for the future...I mean the vocals and the old band instrumental sound (with clarinet!) and their golden era vibe really gets to me! Keeping hope alive in the future by revisiting the past will be up to the next generation(s).




thu


Take care, Larryz
Re: Important or Not? [Re: Delta] #3005599 08/29/19 05:27 AM
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PMJB is a killer ensemble, no doubt!


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Re: Important or Not? [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #3005635 08/29/19 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz
Originally Posted by p90jr
Someone brought up on facebook that Sha Na Na played Woodstock, in 1969, playing music from the late 50s, and seemed incredibly corny and old fashioned.

Why should we expect a young person today to still stylistically want to recreate music from the 1960s and 1970s... in 2019. That's the equivalent thing that Tiny Tim was doing with his 1920s ukelele routine in the 60s...


OTOH, retro bands can still carve out a notch in popular culture...if they’re delivering the goods or a fresh take. Look at Brian Setzer. Ot the resurgence of Tony Bennett’s career post RHCP shoutouts and album with Lady Gaga.

Me? I have no kids, but I have relatives of all ages. I can entertain or annoy them pretty much at will with my music- my CD collection is at 5000+ and covers a lot of territory, except most opera and C&W.

Still, even within genres I love, there are sub genres I dislike. Even though I can do the vox no prob, I don’t care for most modern metal with the “cookie monster” singing. And there’s a techno channel I don’t play anymore after listening to it in the background for several hours while working on a project- every other song had a section featuring the same (or some minor variation) of an accelerating break. Don’t know what it’s called technically, but I call it annoying and lazy as all hell.


I'm "old," now... everybody wants me to play 80s music... which is fine, I like it. The 60s stuff seems to be aging out. The 70s "Yacht Rock" is enjoying a second ironic resurgence...

I was just talking about my daughter and her generation. People ask me if I'm going to "make" her like "good music." I tell them that's against what music is about... she can like whatever she likes. One of the people judging her audition for the Talented music program in the school system (the school submitted her for the program because she sings all day long... I was beaten by Nuns until I stopped singing when I was her age) chastised me for not taking her to church and having her immersed in hymns (we're a Secular Humanist household) and for allowing her to listen to "lowly" pop music, suggesting we force her to listen to Opera. I don't really like Opera... my mother, who taught Opera, doesn't really like Opera... I will not force her to listen to only Opera, that's torture in my mind... plus, I know a lot of trained Opera and choral singers who are miserable and under-employed and wish they'd learned more popular music. She'll be aware of it all and have the chance to explore it should she feel compelled to, but those days of forcing people to pursue things are gone, in my mind. I had to fight to play guitar since my Dad was determined that I would be a jazz trumpeter... something I had no interest in...

But I was speaking to the people who think every 13 year old should have the tastes of a 13 year old in 1970. That makes no sense.

Re: Important or Not? [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #3005636 08/29/19 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz
Originally Posted by p90jr
Someone brought up on facebook that Sha Na Na played Woodstock, in 1969, playing music from the late 50s, and seemed incredibly corny and old fashioned.

Why should we expect a young person today to still stylistically want to recreate music from the 1960s and 1970s... in 2019. That's the equivalent thing that Tiny Tim was doing with his 1920s ukelele routine in the 60s...


OTOH, retro bands can still carve out a notch in popular culture...if they’re delivering the goods or a fresh take. Look at Brian Setzer. Ot the resurgence of Tony Bennett’s career post RHCP shoutouts and album with Lady Gaga.

Me? I have no kids, but I have relatives of all ages. I can entertain or annoy them pretty much at will with my music- my CD collection is at 5000+ and covers a lot of territory, except most opera and C&W.

Still, even within genres I love, there are sub genres I dislike. Even though I can do the vox no prob, I don’t care for most modern metal with the “cookie monster” singing. And there’s a techno channel I don’t play anymore after listening to it in the background for several hours while working on a project- every other song had a section featuring the same (or some minor variation) of an accelerating break. Don’t know what it’s called technically, but I call it annoying and lazy as all hell.


I'm "old," now... everybody wants me to play 80s music... which is fine, I like it. The 60s stuff seems to be aging out. The 70s "Yacht Rock" is enjoying a second ironic resurgence...

I was just talking about my daughter and her generation. People ask me if I'm going to "make" her like "good music." I tell them that's against what music is about... she can like whatever she likes. One of the people judging her audition for the Talented music program in the school system (the school submitted her for the program because she sings all day long... I was beaten by Nuns until I stopped singing when I was her age) chastised me for not taking her to church and having her immersed in hymns (we're a Secular Humanist household) and for allowing her to listen to "lowly" pop music, suggesting we force her to listen to Opera. I don't really like Opera... my mother, who taught Opera, doesn't really like Opera... I will not force her to listen to only Opera, that's torture in my mind... plus, I know a lot of trained Opera and choral singers who are miserable and under-employed and wish they'd learned more popular music. She'll be aware of it all and have the chance to explore it should she feel compelled to, but those days of forcing people to pursue things are gone, in my mind. I had to fight to play guitar since my Dad was determined that I would be a jazz trumpeter... something I had no interest in...

But I was speaking to the people who think every 13 year old should have the tastes of a 13 year old in 1970. That makes no sense.

Re: Important or Not? [Re: p90jr] #3005643 08/29/19 05:20 PM
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When opera singers try their hands at more mainstream stuff, sometimes, the results are...well...



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Re: Important or Not? [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #3005686 08/29/19 11:46 PM
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Luciano has that deer-in-the-headlights look of someone who just got taken to school.


Scott Fraser
Re: Important or Not? [Re: Scott Fraser] #3005815 08/30/19 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Fraser
Luciano has that deer-in-the-headlights look of someone who just got taken to school.

Haahhaahhaahh... !! grin cool


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Re: Important or Not? [Re: Delta] #3005849 08/31/19 05:50 AM
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The first time I heard that performance, I was driving my Mom to an appointment in her car, and she had just gotten that CD. So we’re driving down the road, more (her) or less (me) enjoying the music, and BB fires up his classic tune...

The LP delivers his beached whale solo over it, and I start laughing so hard, I damn near wrecked the car, so I pulled over to the shoulder. Mom was laughing hard as well.

Then she had me replay the tune, just to see if it was us or them. It was them. We laughed some more.

It took us a few minutes to dry our eyes and get back underway, and months before we could listen to that performance without the giggles.


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Re: Important or Not? [Re: Dannyalcatraz] #3005873 08/31/19 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dannyalcatraz
The LP delivers his beached whale solo over it, and I start laughing so hard


That was a pretty strange sit in. Never saw that one before. I do not know what Pavarotti was thinking to do that little bit of wailing..... idk


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