Maybe Lars Ulrich was right

[J. Dan]

Everybody thinks he's kind of an a-hole but he was really early on complaining about streaming and how it would destroy income. I think he was onto something.

 

Only counting streams, not sales of physical CDs or digital sales through iTunes, Amazon, etc.....just streams, so like Spotify. 1300 streams all around the world. $17.00. We have to split that 6 ways. I can't get a line of Coke for that. We have 95 streams in South Africa. Shouldn't that earn me enough to buy a cheeseburger and a Diet Coke?

 

I don't actually car because I never thought I would make anything playing originals....but isn't it a little sat that we are at a place where nobody expects to make anything?

[MotiDave]

I agree, Lars was right about Napster, he"s right about streaming.

 

Your friends should be giving you lines of coke so they can hang out with your groupies.

[J. Dan]

Lol. You crack me up.

[CowboyNQ]

I don't know Lars. He's probably a lovely man.

 

I do know that I was in an original band back when streaming probably meant going to the local creek to catch yabbies. Surprisingly, we didn't make any money either.

 

Mind you, I am prepared to accept that our financial paucity may have had more to do with our talent levels than anything else. Although with songs as evocatively titled as "Fruit Shop" and "Chewing Gum", I can't see where we went wrong?

[SamuelBLupowitz]

The sad thing is, all the technology could be utilized for the true benefit of musicians. As technology could be used to truly benefit everyone on the planet.

 

But as George Carlin pointed out long before I stared to hear it discussed by my peers, the table is tilted.

[area51recording]

He WAS right about all that....he wasn't right about the being a drummer part.....

[drawback]

[video:youtube]

[Dr Mike Metlay]

Anil Prasad, host of INNERVIEWS and probably the best music interviewer alive, has made the absolute criminality of the streaming services a personal crusade of his for years now. Essays and interviews on his site have the real meat of the discussion, but Facebook threads like this one are frequent and pull in comments from some of the most famous musicians in the world.

 

What's a stream worth?

 

Interesting stuff, and why I don't actively seek out placement on streaming services. I make twenty bucks from one CD sale and my thousands of streaming plays add up to pennies. Screw that noise.

 

mike

 

[Dr Mike Metlay]

On that note, a quote or two of Anil's:

 

"By the way, I would like to, for the trillionth time, state that I am NOT anti-streaming. Spotify and those of moronic intelligence say this about me. I am ONLY anti-screwing over of artists. If the streaming companies and their investors would increase their royalty payouts instead of fighting to the death to lower them as frequently as possible, I would shut the hell up. People conflate my 'pay the artists more and your six-figure employees less' argument as 'anti-streaming Luddite' because it is a great way to avoid the FACT that artists and indie labels are being screwed over in an unfathomable way. But let"s call Anil 'out of touch' instead when the fact is I know hundreds of musicians personally. I am more 'in touch' with the reality of musicians than probably the entirety of Spotify employees worldwide, combined."

 

"I realize another problem is entitled users, fully trained and brainwashed specifically by Spotify. I was at a well-known friend"s show the other night. I was there when a person came up to the merch table and said 'Your music is not on Spotify. You expect me to buy it?' Artist response: 'Only if you want to.' Person: 'But what if I just want it for free on Spotify?' Artist: 'That"s not how we do things. Spotify pays us nothing. It costs us a lot of money to make music. You can buy it on Bandcamp and stream it there or download it.' Person, now indignant: 'This is ridiculous. I can"t believe I have to buy your music to hear it.' And yet the person was okay to pay for a ticket to hear the music. This was clearly an educated, affluent person with an Apple Watch, iPhone and expensive clothing. This person was okay paying for those. And yet their synapses have been so corroded by Spotify that they couldn"t make the intellectual leap to consider the artist would like to be paid for a recording."

[Markay]

It is somewhat ironic that digital disrupters like Spotify and Uber have succeeded in driving down the cost of their main input, human endeavour, pursuing a business model that will never generate a profit. The only way Spotify can be profitable is to further drive down the cost per stream, and Uber's case, retain more than 50% of each fare. The odds are that at some in the future neither will exist but the value of music might take a lot longer to recover.

 

But the elephant in the room is the expecation that Apple will attempt to dominate the streaming market. Being able to offset streaming loses against hardware sales means they will be around for a long time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Synthoid]

I do know that I was in an original band back when streaming probably meant going to the local creek to catch yabbies.

 

I'd like mine with Old Bay seasoning please.

 

 

[CowboyNQ]

I do know that I was in an original band back when streaming probably meant going to the local creek to catch yabbies.

 

I'd like mine with Old Bay seasoning please.

 

Had to look that up - but now that I'm educated - consider it done. Let me know what beer you like too.

[Synthoid]

I was going to bring the beer.

 

 

 

[BluMunk]

Without diving too deeply into the weeds, I think that "recording artist" as a viable career path for even a relatively select few was a product of a confluence of technology and culture, and, like buggy-whip manufacturers, are being made obsolete by tech and cultural shifts.

[zeronyne]

Without diving too deeply into the weeds, I think that "recording artist" as a viable career path for even a relatively select few was a product of a confluence of technology and culture, and, like buggy-whip manufacturers, are being made obsolete by tech and cultural shifts.

 

I agree. I think from the first recording, it was inevitable that being a "band" was going to end up being a sustainable vocation at best for 99.9% of people who got into one.

 

What i DIDN'T foresee was the jaw-dropping greed of these streaming companies and the inability of songwriters to band together and simply say no. So now, you have the same ratio of successful/struggling acts, except the struggling acts have to work just as hard as the successful ones...they are just being ripped off a bit more.

 

 

[SamuelBLupowitz]

Dr. Mike, I've really enjoyed having you around the forum lately. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and insight in such a friendly, community-minded manner.

[EricBarker]

He wasn't wrong, but he was kind of spitting into the fan and not proposing any creative solutions. Boning Napster wasn't going to fix anything, and if he really thought that, then he's dumber than I even think he is. (I'd rather like to think he was postponing the inevitable so he could milk the industry for a couple more years).

 

OT: I went to a lecture by an architect who designed one of his houses. Lot's of spats back and forth about putting the drum studio as far away as possible from his estranged wife's den. The quips further cemented my impression that Lars is not a particularly good egg, and probably not all that intelligent either.

[Ulf]

But the elephant in the room is the expecation that Apple will attempt to dominate the streaming market. Being able to offset streaming loses against hardware sales means they will be around for a long time.

 

That is a really good point (and likely one of the reasons Spotify is suing them for anti-competitive behavior).

 

Then, the good thing about the collapse of the recording artists is that live music is once again live and well. Sure, concerts are more expensive to attend, but it also means I can make a decent living playing live.

 

You lose some, you gain some...

[J. Dan]

I may be hijacking my own thread and countering my own point, but here it goes..... I wonder in some ways if the reason people value streamed music less is because there is less of an EXPERIENCE. You don't pay directly to listen to songs on the radio. You pay indirectly trough the advertisers, assuming you don't switch stations like me.

 

Buying a record was an experience. The artwork, the liner notes, even the journey and experience of listening to side A vs side B. Streaming a single song is more like listening to something on the radio. But that said, radio play I BELIEVE but don't know for sure, maybe somebody can verify, paid more than a digital stream. At a bare minimum, the digital age should make it easier to pay artists based on actual streams of their material, instead of the formulas used by the likes of ASCAP and BMI.

[Ken Beaumont]

I bought albums in the 70's, loved the liners, artwork etc. Hated the fact they didn't last long, easily scratched wore out and had to listen to them at home. The signal to noise level wasn't great either. Then I started driving so it was off to cassette tapes. These had their own set of issues. Along came CD's and problems mostly solved, except storage. Couldn't keep too many in the car and I had hundreds of them. My wife complained as much about that as the multiple instruments all throughout my house. And my lifestyle changed, I don't get time to listen to music at home most of my listening is done in my 40 mile each way commute. On the radio, most of that can be advertising or DJ's incessant blathering. For awhile I had XM radio and it worked but was a bit too expensive and I couldn't choose what I wanted to hear and they tended to play the same thing every day at the same time. And their business practices are shady to say the least. Try and quit them and you will see. Along came Spotify, I pay for the premium service I get commercial free content and a lot of it. Plus during band practice, we can listen to the song were are working on from my phone. Listening to music has changed as has our connected lifestyle. I'm a musician and I can't find the time to just relax and listen to music. So it has been relegated to the background of my life. Even when I gig, between conversations and devices our music is mostly background. There are fans and some dancing. But more and more live music is being replaced by play buttons. Times change. I own a lot of apple products, but will not buy their service. I would rather not pay one company for everything. Plus Apple ain't the same company they used to be.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

At a bare minimum, the digital age should make it easier to pay artists based on actual streams of their material, instead of the formulas used by the likes of ASCAP and BMI.

Should, yes. CAN, yes. But if history has taught us anything, it's that the relationship between artists and businessmen is, to say the least, fraught.

[J. Dan]

I would argue that artists need to learn more about business, not the other way around.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

I would argue that artists need to learn more about business, not the other way around.

Sure, to make a living and not get screwed, it's a necessity.

[Dr Mike Metlay]

Dr. Mike, I've really enjoyed having you around the forum lately. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and insight in such a friendly, community-minded manner.

 

How very kind! Thank you, that's much appreciated... especially coming from a fellow member of the Bad Is Good (If You're Talking About Puns) Society.

 

I know I'm very new to you all, at least those of you who didn't read RECORDING when I was there, but I really do hope that the stuff rattling around in my skull proves useful to folks. I love playing and recording and all it encompasses, and it's good to have a community where the things I know are welcome and useful.

 

I know it's early days yet, but I'm glad that some of you have already discovered the Computer Lab forum and are finding it useful. More to come!

 

 

[Dr Mike Metlay]

I do know that I was in an original band back when streaming probably meant going to the local creek to catch yabbies.

 

I'd like mine with Old Bay seasoning please.

 

Had to look that up - but now that I'm educated - consider it done. Let me know what beer you like too.

 

Old Bay and butter - all you need for everything from crawdads to salmon, baby. Big ups.

 

mike

(cider drinker, sorry)

 

[retrokeys]

The sad fact is, and always has been, that these easiest folks to exploit are those who love what they do.