Kurt W Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 The keybed, Well, it truly came down to the CP4, the RD2000 and the CP88. The CP4 was great for sure as was the RD2000 but after a number of jumps between the CP88 and the RD 2000 I found the RD was a little heavier than the CP88 and the CP4 was a little lighter so the CP88 was the perfect balance between the two. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and considerations before buying the CP88. Regarding the keybeds of the CP4 and CP88 this statement confirms their keybeds are identical except for the textured surface of the CP88: https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/cp88-keybed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 16, 2019 Author Share Posted August 16, 2019 Yeah, perception is a tricky thing. It"s really common we see different opinions of the same actions in different boards. The chassis they mount it on and the sound engines being used mess with our perception of the mechanics. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 16, 2019 Author Share Posted August 16, 2019 Is this what we"ve been waiting for? CP88/CP73 V1.10 Operating System Updater https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/cp88_cp73_os.html V1.00 to V1.10 New features You can now load a specific Live Set Sound from all data files. A new function 'MIDI Control Delay' has been added to the Advanced Settings. New Voices have been added. New Live Set Sounds have been added. CP is now compatible with Soundmondo. Fixed problems Fixed minor problems. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dockeys Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 The keybed, Well, it truly came down to the CP4, the RD2000 and the CP88. The CP4 was great for sure as was the RD2000 but after a number of jumps between the CP88 and the RD 2000 I found the RD was a little heavier than the CP88 and the CP4 was a little lighter so the CP88 was the perfect balance between the two. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and considerations before buying the CP88. Regarding the keybeds of the CP4 and CP88 this statement confirms their keybeds are identical except for the textured surface of the CP88: https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/cp88-keybed After owning a CP4 and playing a Cp88 there's no way I would have thought they had the same keybed apart from the textured finish. They felt like different keybeds to me. As Elmer said its probably the manner in which they're mounted plays a large part and indeed the way in which the software transmits the sound via whatever sensors they use. I've found the modx8 more playable than it's predecessor the moxf8 yet they apparently have the same keybed. Quote Yamaha MODX8, Legend Live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 Anyone know what the "new voices" are? Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 16, 2019 Author Share Posted August 16, 2019 Jimkost2002 just bought a CP88. He"s going to give the firmware upgrade a go. https://usa.yamaha.com/support/updates/cp88_cp73_os.html Hope he comes right quick afterward to let us know about the sound additions. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coker Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 The Yamaha website says this firmware was released in January. It"s been discussed previously on this thread. Quote CA93, MODX8, YC88, K8.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChazKeys Posted August 16, 2019 Share Posted August 16, 2019 Correct - the update was released ages ago. New sounds - C7 piano, 2 x 67 Rhodes sounds and a Wide Wurly. Next update is planned for September - I hope they beef up the Sub section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 16, 2019 Author Share Posted August 16, 2019 Ah. Bitch. I was just checking randomly to see when it shows up. Now I know. Thanks for the check in. Yes, the sub section! Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pa Gherkin Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 Has anyone here made use of the 1/4 inch inputs to mix a clonewheel or synth in lieu of using a mixer? Any downside to doing this? If I could eliminate having to lug a mixer for a 2 board rig it would be great. Looks like stereo or mono would be really easy. Whaddya think? I second this question. I"ve plugged my Mojo61 into the aux-in on my CP4 with excellent results. On CP88 there is a dedicated volume adjustment knob on the 1/4' inputs. On the CP4, the highest volume is a tad low with the Mojo61, which means I have to set the default Mojo61 to +10 rather than +4 pro level. Not a big deal, but I hope the highest volume on the CP88 for 1/4' inputs will be slightly higher gain than CP4. Well Barry,it looks like you or I will have to drop a couple grand in order to ascertain the answer to this question. If I'm first I'll post my results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkost2002 Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 Ah. Bitch. I was just checking randomly to see when it shows up. Now I know. Thanks for the check in. Yes, the sub section! just checked Elmer, its the old OS, the new update is Sept.... can"t wait! Quote "I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.� Robert Bosch, 1919 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 17, 2019 Author Share Posted August 17, 2019 Me either. The CP88 is very compelling. I"m this close to selling things off to get my hands on it. But as we"ve discussed. Better if that 4th section with the misc. sounds gets fattened up. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pa Gherkin Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Two reviews on the Sweetwater page for the instrument claim that the black keys on the CP73 don't produce full velocity when played "fast and hard". I suspect both reviews are from the same person. Can any CP73 owners here either confirm or deny this from their experiencie? Should be easy to tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Two reviews on the Sweetwater page for the instrument claim that the black keys on the CP73 don't produce full velocity when played "fast and hard". I suspect both reviews are from the same person. Can any CP73 owners here either confirm or deny this from their experiencie? Should be easy to tell. Denied. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pa Gherkin Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Thank you Adan. I crave the 73. Going to try it asap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkost2002 Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Two reviews on the Sweetwater page for the instrument claim that the black keys on the CP73 don't produce full velocity when played "fast and hard". I suspect both reviews are from the same person. Can any CP73 owners here either confirm or deny this from their experiencie? Should be easy to tell. Denied. also deniedâ- i own an 88 but i put the 73 thru multiple tests with various jazz and classical examples at multiple dynamics and velocity... SW poster dude just doesn't have thoroughness or good technique or both..... beware always of overly negative un-specific reviews-or overly positive un-specific reviews as well! Quote "I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.� Robert Bosch, 1919 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_G Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Hi, my CP73 shows this "black keys bug" too. And some other users here in Germany confirmed. It is also dicussed at the Yamaha Forum and the software department is checking.... I hope for the September update and a fix.... Quote Studio: Hammond XK5-XLK5, Roland Fantom 8, Kurzweil PC3A6, Prophet 5, Moog Sub37, Neo Vent, HX3-Expander, LB Organ Grinder Live: Yamaha CP88, Yamaha Motif Rack ES, Hammond SKX Pro, Hammond XB2-HX3, Kurzweil PC3-61, Leslie 251, Roland SA1000, Neo Vent2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Now I see what they"re talking about. Playing a black note repeatedly, quickly, at maximum velocity, volume drops a little for the successive notes. I would have assumed that"s intentional, trying to replicate the limits of return of s real mechanism, but I don"t notice the same effect for white keys. For me, this would make no possible difference in real playing. To hear this 'bug', I have to use a technique I"d never use while making music. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 What are they saying... unique to the 73s action - or on the 88 as well? Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_G Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 Yes, 73 only. It is not on the CP88! I noticed it when playing some boogie/RnR stuff.... Quote Studio: Hammond XK5-XLK5, Roland Fantom 8, Kurzweil PC3A6, Prophet 5, Moog Sub37, Neo Vent, HX3-Expander, LB Organ Grinder Live: Yamaha CP88, Yamaha Motif Rack ES, Hammond SKX Pro, Hammond XB2-HX3, Kurzweil PC3-61, Leslie 251, Roland SA1000, Neo Vent2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 I guess I can see why this would be noticeable playing some styles, like a percussive rock hammer technique. "Noticeable" does not necessarily mean problematic. I think it's fairly subtle. I'd be very curious if you put a CP73 next to a real Yamaha grand whether you could do on the grand what you can't do on the 73. In other words, are people wanting a perfect key response that is beyond what the real instrument can do? But what is most strange about it, to me, is that it's only the black keys. That it's different for black v white keys suggests it should be fixed. I was in Guitar Center yesterday and played the CP73 and 88's that were next to each other. First time I've done that since getting my 73. It just reinforced my view that the CP88 is the one to get if your focus is acoustic piano, while the 73 is better if your focus is on EPs. I made the right choice for my band gigs because for those I'm playing almost exclusively EPs. Would I do an AP-focused gig with the 73? Sure I would, and it would be fine, but it would be better with the 88. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 20, 2019 Author Share Posted August 20, 2019 For sure the 73 is for reduced weight size and some cost. The 88k has one of the best actions we"ve ever had on a stage piano, certainly at 41lbs. The CP4 is also excellent at 38lbs. Definitely preferable if you don"t mind the size and weight and you are playing acoustic piano mostly. But Yamaha historically doesn"t have a horrible weighted action, GHS, GH, GH3, GH3X, NW, NWX will all get the job done with AP sounds. The BHS in the 73 I"m assuming is a balanced GHS, and the NW-GH in the 88 must be a variant on the GH with the wood. The MODX is way more versatile sonically and in programming than the CPs, but the MODX8 uses the GHS action. I didn"t find that to be a problem playing acoustic piano on it. It speaks quite well. But I"d still pick the CP88 if acoustic piano was very primary even with the huge sound palette coming from the Montage. Looking forward to more sounds in the Sept. firmware update, however. I recently played the Crumar Seven - which has a TP-100. I typically do not care for this action on most models that use it. However it actually feels very Rhodes like on the Seven with the modeled Rhodes sound engine. I didn"t care for it for acoustic piano and obviously it"s not great for clavs. But that"s the crux of it with digitals we expect to do everything. We just pick the one that suits the gigs we"re doing. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_G Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I guess I can see why this would be noticeable playing some styles, like a percussive rock hammer technique. "Noticeable" does not necessarily mean problematic. I think it's fairly subtle. I'd be very curious if you put a CP73 next to a real Yamaha grand whether you could do on the grand what you can't do on the 73. In other words, are people wanting a perfect key response that is beyond what the real instrument can do? But what is most strange about it, to me, is that it's only the black keys. That it's different for black v white keys suggests it should be fixed. . I have to disagree. It's not subtle and maybe not problematic for your playing but it's not a "normal" behaviour for black keys (none of my weighted and unweighted boards shows this). Should be an easy fix in the scan routine firmware. We'll see. Quote Studio: Hammond XK5-XLK5, Roland Fantom 8, Kurzweil PC3A6, Prophet 5, Moog Sub37, Neo Vent, HX3-Expander, LB Organ Grinder Live: Yamaha CP88, Yamaha Motif Rack ES, Hammond SKX Pro, Hammond XB2-HX3, Kurzweil PC3-61, Leslie 251, Roland SA1000, Neo Vent2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I have to disagree. It's not subtle and maybe not problematic for your playing but it's not a "normal" behaviour for black keys (none of my weighted and unweighted boards shows this). Fair enough. After deliberatly looking for the problem and finally noticing it, I can see why folks who play a particular way might find it problematic. Prior to that, I had been playing the CP73 every day for a couple months and never even noticed it. I'm just trying to give folks who might be reading this, and who can't actually play one, some perspective to help them decide whether this is a deal-breaker. But I think there's an argument to be made that if you play the sort of piano styles where this might a problem, you might want to be leaning towards the CP88 in the first place, because it's going to work better for you regardless of this bug. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pa Gherkin Posted August 22, 2019 Share Posted August 22, 2019 Wow,glad I asked. Thank you Adan,jimkost,and M_G for your comments on the black key issue. I also searched out the black key phenomenom on a couple of Yamaha forums and came away seemingly enlightened. Rock,boogie woogie and New Orleans piano along with other styles are significant contents in my trick bag and as such I'm really going to have to vet the action on the 73. I once had a Roland dp that exhibited this same trait on both black and white keys and ,for me, it was miserable. BTW, Roland was no help whatsoever. The weight and size of the 73 along with some of its other features are what got me interested in it as a gigging piano. I can get all the great 88 key action I want at home on my acoustic. I still look forward to trying the 73. Thanks again guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Well I pulled the trick on the CP88 and got a great deal. I will let you know what I think about it when I dive into it more. I will still keep the Forte though. The CP88 will work well for soul gigs or an Americana band I play with sometimes. Quote "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleer Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Please tell us about the deal too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 I will let you know what I think about it when I dive into it more. I'm most curious what you think about the Wurlitzer EP's. I love the AP' s, really dug the upright piano. We all know Yamaha does great with Rhodes EP's. The only keyboard company that I am 100% sold on for Wurlitzer EP's is your fav red ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleer Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Well, that orange Vox Continental comes pretty close too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 OT to this thread but agree, I own a Vox 63 and had it sitting on top of my Wurlitzer 200 for quite a while. It's pretty close, but it's not all the way there. Yes, this is only my opinion but as I can A/B them to the real thing it's an educated opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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