ElmerJFudd Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 IKnuckles, are you running a VST host on your Surface Pro 4 2018 for live performance/playing? Have you been able to get low latency performance with your Scarlett in this scenario? What VSTs are you using? Thanks! Hi Elmer. Apologies to the extreme delay in replying....busy summer. :-) I never use my computer for live performance (except to read music from sometimes) so I am afraid I can't really help much with your question. I am far from being an expert - or even decently competent in the use of midi etc. , but my approach towards latency is usually one of the following:: 1. Attempt to get rid of it through using a small buffer size. 2. Not turn on the little monitoring symbol on the track to be recorded. This eliminates latency entirely for certain recordings. 3. Put up with it if it is an easy midi recording...or play the track entirely by feel without hearing what I am doing. 4. Listen to the keys directly through headphones and play the backing through speakers. I expect there are better ways of dealing with it........... But It is not always a problem ....it seems to depend on various other factors .... My vsts are mostly the ones which come with Cubase as well as a drum one which came with my little finger drumming machine. :-) I like the virtual instruments included with Cubase. Some nice timbres in there. Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheelHead Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 The most trouble I had was with Pianoteq I wrote before about and had no solution (except not use Pianoteq with the SP4) until I lucked on to a post after researching it for quite a while with no solution. The fix was not on the Molten site AND a serious issue. Pianoteq Pro would crack, pop, CPU-error and ran terrible. The solution was to go into the Device Manager and disable the battery tracking percentage. Worked like a charm WH Just to correct my previous remarks in this thread regarding Pianoteq and a fix that worked, Windows 10 updated and Pianoteq again is no longer usable, yet with large sampled pianos playing at high speed I get 12 to 15 percent of CPU with no issues. Pianoteq flags out with "CPU" not fast enough (i7 with 16GB Ram). (Same Pianoteq Pro will run fine on a 10 year old MacBook with an SSD with a CPU probably less than a quarter as powerful.) WH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheelHead Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 Just to correct my previous remarks in this thread regarding Pianoteq and a fix that worked, Windows 10 updated and Pianoteq again is no longer usable, yet with large sampled pianos playing at high speed I get 12 to 15 percent of CPU with no issues. Pianoteq flags out with "CPU" not fast enough (i7 with 16GB Ram). (Same Pianoteq Pro will run fine on a 10 year old MacBook with an SSD with a CPU probably less than a quarter as powerful.) WH Updating my effort to get Pianoteq Pro to work on the i7 Surface Pro 4: Went over to the Molten site again and tried the 'high power' tweaks again. (last time did not help to any great extent on a previous Windows 10 version) You have to go into the Registry to find CSEnable and place a '0' into it for the "High Performance" settings to be visible otherwise it is a hidden option in the Power Settings. You also have to go to advanced settings and set the CPU to run at 100 percent or 99 minimum and maximum and disable any USB interrupts among other things. Rebooted and going back to Power options the menu for "High Performance" is enableable, editable and visible and not hidden. After the tweaks I rebooted and tried Pianoteq Pro. Ran LantencyMon and now it said that the real-time audio should work. (previous test said CPU power management issues) Played a multi-mic Pianoteq piano with some fast classical passages. It worked. However, I got an occasional loud glitch Adding to the high performance settings I changed: I went into the Device Manager and disabled the "Battery" (2nd driver down the list) that gives percentage. Now there were no glitches and where I got a "CPU not powerful enough" error, the highest (monitoring through the Task Manager) I got with very fast playing and sustaining was near 50 percent CPU. (large sample pianos go like 12% or 15-20) Back in business with the SP4 and Pianoteq Pro. When Windows 10 updates again will be concerned that this still works. I think it may. It is easy (obviously) to go back to the normal settings in the Power menu when desired. WH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElmerJFudd Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 a lot of talk this month on throttling issues with Surface devices - news again due to a Surface Pro 6 firmware update that has heat sensors throttling the CPU to 400mhz in some cases. https://www.techrepublic.com/article/microsoft-surface-pro-6-and-surface-book-2-devices-are-throttle-locking-to-400-mhz/ Quote Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted August 17, 2019 Author Share Posted August 17, 2019 Surface Pro 6 i5 has no fan, so throttling is the only method it has to reduce heat buildup. If it's throttling, I suppose you could put a small fan on it externally to help keep it cool. You should certainly at least take care to keep it away from heat sources to the extent that you can. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheelHead Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Surface Pro 6 i5 has no fan, so throttling is the only method it has to reduce heat buildup. If it's throttling, I suppose you could put a small fan on it externally to help keep it cool. You should certainly at least take care to keep it away from heat sources to the extent that you can. My Surface Pro 4 now is running unbelievable and no matter what settings I am using no clicks or dropouts to a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (first generation). I am thrilled. This is a great and small interface with touch screen to use for audio. Fits nicely right on top of controller. (mine is also ported to a 32" screen via the SP4 mini display out for enlarging sheet music for easy reading.) About the temperature throttling of the Pro 6: If it's in the BIOS, the BIOS of the Surfaces are pretty basic with little (except devices like cameras) to be able to turn on and off. Not like a lot of the PC BIOSs of old with a litany of adjustments (obviously) Windows 10 power schemes like the High Performance mode will probably over ride it unless there actually is a turn-off switch for the temperature throttling but all this is good to check before purchasing the 'latest'. I would buy a SP6 but this SP4 is going to be expensive to replace with an i7 and 512GB SSD like this that now runs perfect. (always ran the large sampled pianos perfectly like I said before and DAW - Pianoteq was the problem) This is running unbelievable now and just a put a check mark in the power schemes and you are out of the high performance mode though mine has not gotten hot in the high performance mode even in long use. WH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 I could see where, to help assure performance doesn't degrade over the length of a performance (esp. in a hot environment), you might want to specifically get a Surface Pro model that has a fan. That would include the the i5 or i7 SP4, or the i7 versions of the newer models. Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WheelHead Posted August 20, 2019 Share Posted August 20, 2019 "you might want to specifically get a Surface Pro model that has a fan. That would include the the i5 or i7 SP4, or the i7 versions of the newer models" Perhaps it should be noted the Surface Pros (recent) are not the only 'game in town' on that class level. The HP X2 1013 G3 is a competitor (not affiliated) and looking up to see if the ease of service changed with the upgrade from the 1012 G2, you can take the screen off and replace it in minutes with screws, change the SSD in 10 minutes to a larger one and there is no glue but 4 screws holding the battery in according to iFixit. Everything in the Surface Pro is aggressively glued including the screen that usually only a seasoned repair person using a heat gun can take the screen off without damaging the WIFI antenna module on the top (and hard to get a replacement - find one, this antenna being just a piece of plastic with like a 'tin foil' on it, is 60 to $100-the tin foil easily rips from the glue during disassembly) I did see a battery replacement note once a couple of years ago that to send in to Microsoft SP with $500 and they send you a replacement with new battery. Have no idea if that is still on. Private tablet servicers can probably replace battery cheaper. No need with the HP. Change the battery in a half and hour or less and probably the tablet can get 10 years easily if desired to keep The HP has 10-point multi touch so put a set a drawbars on screen one should be able to drag them. I will probably purchase this next. They are slightly more expensive. In fact I have been looking for one to add. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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