Music Player Network

Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Miscellaneous stuff #3003004 08/13/19 02:48 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,222
Dave Ferris Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
OP Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,222
I try to write at least 8 bars a day for transposing to all keys. Here's some stuff I've been working on the last few days. Hopefully my writing is legible.
There are a couple of references to the tunes I came up with these lines for -- the Monk tune Eronel and Clear Day.
The thirds can work over a Dm, G7, or Bm7b5-E7-Am.

edit typo- on the Eronel example, bar 2, first note should be F# and 3rd note F natural.

Attached Files
IMG_0902.jpg (391.06 KB, 468 downloads)
Last edited by Dave Ferris; 08/13/19 04:22 AM. Reason: posted as pdf. instead of photo
KC Island
Re: Miscellaneous stuff [Re: Dave Ferris] #3003028 08/13/19 11:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 831
G
George88 Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
G
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 831
Thanks for sharing this, Dave. That sounds like a serious day!

Re: Miscellaneous stuff [Re: Dave Ferris] #3003078 08/13/19 05:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 819
montunoman Offline
Gold Member
Offline
Gold Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 819
Thanks for sharing! I don’t write out lines, but maybe I should start to? I do work out lines from jazz books and transcriptions, and play them in all 12 keys. Usually RH plays the line, the LH does rootless voicings, or walking bass or stride. This is great practice for the fingers, ears and mind! Sometimes I also just comp and sing the lines instead of playing them. I’d be interested in hearing others approaches to practicing lines.

Re: Miscellaneous stuff [Re: Dave Ferris] #3003110 08/13/19 10:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,347
Al Quinn Offline
Platinum Member
Offline
Platinum Member
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,347
Dave, thanks for sharing. Cool lines!

What's your thinking about the A natural in the second bar of the sixth line? I hear it as an anticipation of the third of the F7 chord in the following measure rather than the natural sixth of C-7b5 . It's three beats ahead but I've heard Herbie anticipate upcoming changes a few beats in advance. It sounds kind of out but cool, while at the same time propelling the music forward. At least that's my rationalization of what I'm hearing; I'm curious to learn your take. Or perhaps you're just playing with different flavors of F7 for two bars instead of a measure of C-7b5 followed by a measure of F7. Either way nice tension that resolves soon after with Bbm.

The interval of C# and F over Am in the second bar of the last line sounds great. Not an obvious choice to me but I'm thinking is fits in so nicely because it's a major third interval among other major third intervals and it leads beautifully to the next major third interval (E and G#).


Re: Miscellaneous stuff [Re: Al Quinn] #3003133 08/14/19 12:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,222
Dave Ferris Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
OP Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,222
.
Originally Posted by Al Quinn
What's your thinking about the A natural in the second bar of the sixth line? I hear it as an anticipation of the third of the F7 chord in the following measure rather than the natural sixth of C-7b5 . It's three beats ahead but I've heard Herbie anticipate upcoming changes a few beats in advance. It sounds kind of out but cool, while at the same time propelling the music forward. At least that's my rationalization of what I'm hearing; I'm curious to learn your take. Or perhaps you're just playing with different flavors of F7 for two bars instead of a measure of C-7b5 followed by a measure of F7. Either way nice tension that resolves soon after with Bbm.

The interval of C# and F over Am in the second bar of the last line sounds great. Not an obvious choice to me but I'm thinking is fits in so nicely because it's a major third interval among other major third intervals and it leads beautifully to the next major third interval (E and G#).



Thanks Al, much appreciated !

Regarding that Cm7b5 to F7- I think I just heard it has part of the Cm7b5. I've been somewhat infatuated as of late with the Half Dim. chord and have been trying to probe for different, somewhat out and angular sounds.

But yes, you're right, it is an anticipation of the next bar. But it could be heard/analyzed as just one long line for the F7 altered. And yes on a lot of Herbie early solos, I see/hear him do that all the time. I read somewhere awhile back where he said he was influenced by Bill Evans after hearing him push and play with the time like that.

When I was starting out, it didn't sound "right" to me. I was used to straight up and down Be Bop phrasing , where each line corresponded to each chord change , on each bar. It's a more sophisticated way of "speaking" for sure. Shows how far ahead of his time Herbie was when he was in his early 20s. Unbelievable really.

Yes, that C#/F third interval on the Am. You know that's the first time I've ever come up with anything like that and I knew someone might say...hey what is that ? But yes again you're hearing what I am. If you just hear it as within the whole phrase it sounds kinda cool, all those Major 3rds a Minor 3rd apart, and it ends on the Minor Maj.7. Definitely Debussy influenced. His second Etude in thirds, " Pour les Tierces" in particular.

Originally Posted by montunoman
Thanks for sharing! I don’t write out lines, but maybe I should start to? I do work out lines from jazz books and transcriptions, and play them in all 12 keys. Usually RH plays the line, the LH does rootless voicings, or walking bass or stride. This is great practice for the fingers, ears and mind! Sometimes I also just comp and sing the lines instead of playing them. I’d be interested in hearing others approaches to practicing lines.


A big YES, to writing your own lines and chord voicings out ! After strictly taking lines and standard voicings for years from the Masters, I started to branch out, a little at a time, on my own maybe 25 years ago. I look back at old notebooks and some of the lines and voicings weren't all that great. Even much stuff I used to post here 10-12 years ago, I wouldn't play today. So that tells me I'm on the right track has being more particular and hearing things differently.

I feel it's still important to refer to the Masters like Bud Powell, Bird, etc. etc. But slowly and a little at a time, come up with your own stuff. It's your own voice !

I practice essentially what you do sans the singing and walking bass. I do play everything in parallel octaves, Lh & Rh two octaves apart. But it's important to always play the LH voicing to hear how the line works/corresponds to the harmony. Often I'll play the root of the chord down low with the LH before the voicing, to reinforce the sound of the harmony even more clear...if that makes sense.

Re: Miscellaneous stuff [Re: Dave Ferris] #3003138 08/14/19 01:23 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,222
Dave Ferris Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
OP Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,222
A couple more things- I've been practicing this way for over 40 years now and for me I feel it's the best way to improve your vocabulary and coming up with new, interesting ideas. You feel like you're not stagnating and playing the same old same. Aside from expanding your harmonic knowledge, you're also working your technique.

And as Clare Fischer told me 35 years ago, when you write your own stuff out, it also improves your reading.

Re: Miscellaneous stuff [Re: Dave Ferris] #3003149 08/14/19 05:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,222
Dave Ferris Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
OP Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,222
Some Minor stuff I came up with after dinner. One with the parallel octaves, the other with the James Bond LH thing.
On the Bbm bar 3, another typo- should be eighth notes tied to the half, with a dotted quarter rest in front.

Attached Files
Image.jpg (266.82 KB, 203 downloads)
Re: Miscellaneous stuff [Re: Dave Ferris] #3003317 08/15/19 05:11 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,222
Dave Ferris Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
OP Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,222
I was working on the Chopin Etude in thirds tonight and came up with this short excerpt.

Attached Files
IMG_0914.jpg (289.66 KB, 146 downloads)
Re: Miscellaneous stuff [Re: Dave Ferris] #3004791 08/24/19 05:45 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,222
Dave Ferris Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
OP Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,222
One line/melody- 3 different chord applications. First example, B Maj7b5, has possible two hand voicing accompaniment written. All three examples have possible LH voicings.

Original example deleted. New version down 5 posts, sorry.


Last edited by Dave Ferris; 08/25/19 01:58 AM.
Re: Miscellaneous stuff [Re: Dave Ferris] #3004813 08/24/19 01:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 96
R
re Pete Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
R
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 96
Thanks for posting these Dave. I'm trying to get better at those dense beautiful chords. Tried writing out some of your chords on your recording of Polka dots but hard to pick out right notes with my ears. Would love to see some chords from that. Do you tend to think in naming chords more as an extended altered chord or more like polytone / chords?

Re: Miscellaneous stuff [Re: re Pete] #3004815 08/24/19 01:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,222
Dave Ferris Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
OP Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,222
Hi Pete. I don't get too hung up on naming chord structures has there are so many possibilities. I do use a lot of triads on top of triads as you might have noticed. But yes, when there are a lot of color notes I just tend to think of it as an altered chord as opposed to trying to name it.

I might have posted Polka dots & moonbeams here before but I'll re-post again now that we have the attachment feature. I'll have to do in two posts as the arrangement is 3 pages and we can only do two attachments per post.

P&D pages 1 & 2


Attached Files
Polka Dots and moonbeams .jpg (370.67 KB, 85 downloads)
Polka Dots pg2 .jpg (322.73 KB, 83 downloads)
Re: Miscellaneous stuff [Re: Dave Ferris] #3004816 08/24/19 01:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,222
Dave Ferris Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
OP Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,222
Polka dots page 3. And the audio for reference:

https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris/polka-dots-and-moonbeams-van

Attached Files
Polka Dots pg3.jpg (374.38 KB, 68 downloads)
Last edited by Dave Ferris; 08/24/19 01:52 PM.
Re: Miscellaneous stuff [Re: Dave Ferris] #3004819 08/24/19 02:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 96
R
re Pete Offline
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
R
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 96
Wow thats great. I only get so far transcribing by ear before frustration sets in. Getting better at these complex sounding beautiful voiced substitutions is on my to do list.
I'm amazed at what Dick Hyman does. Puts just enough of them in there tastefully so people probably think 'what was that'? That's what I like.

Re: Miscellaneous stuff [Re: Dave Ferris] #3004892 08/25/19 01:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,222
Dave Ferris Offline OP
MP Hall of Fame Member
OP Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,222
Guys sorry about this but I deleted those one line/ three chords application examples from last night. post # 3004791

I sat down with it today, started taking it through a couple of keys and changed the notes around quite a bit. It makes more sense musically and most importantly, sounds better.

So if you are digging into this, please delete the first version and use this one.

I should test things out more thoroughly the next day with fresh ears. There are quite a few eraser marks, if anyone has any note questions let me know.


Attached Files
Image.jpg (328.18 KB, 17 downloads)

Moderated by  Dave Bryce, Stephen Fortner 

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3