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This forum looks like it's all studio applications. #3002932 08/12/19 05:09 PM
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CEB Offline OP
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This forum looks like it's all studio applications which is very cool. I have a question geared toward live guitar. Not sure if it has a place hear or on my Facebook guitar group. It's about guesstimating sweet spots on unfamiliar backline especially when quality of production personnel can be a high variance condition.


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Re: This forum looks like it's all studio applications. [Re: CEB] #3002933 08/12/19 05:10 PM
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Duh. Sorry. The forum title says Recording hacks right in the title. I'm not with it. Sorry again.


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Re: This forum looks like it's all studio applications. [Re: CEB] #3002947 08/12/19 07:13 PM
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Mike Rivers Offline
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I don't see any reason why we can't discuss mics for live sound here as long as it's not "What's the best mic for my Stratophonic into a Bluegurger 6-10?"

There are different things to consider when choosing a mic for studio and live use --- sometimes, and sometimes not. What's your question?

Re: This forum looks like it's all studio applications. [Re: CEB] #3002957 08/12/19 08:15 PM
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Mostly knowing safe micing techniques for backline guitar amps or amps you are not familiar with. The 50 Watt Boogie that was my main amp from 91 till 2016 had to be mic'ed on the speaker edge. If you got
Anywhere near the center it was like an Ice Pick in the head. My VHT is more forgiving and the sweet spot is in s little more. The Filmore driver in my Mesa RectoVerb 25 is sort of in between the two. Mics are usually
SM57s or Sennheiser e609s. I guess I should buy my own e609 to always have a fallback but I don't like to co-mingle gear with production.

I guess my question is there a safe fallback positioning method on 12" guitar speaker? or is it always a case of rolling the dice? I guess this is another case for going direct with a Helix or Kemper or Axe Fx etc...

Last edited by CEB; 08/12/19 08:18 PM.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt
Re: This forum looks like it's all studio applications. [Re: CEB] #3002985 08/12/19 11:06 PM
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I agree 100% with Mike's comment that stage / live sound applications are fair game.

CEB, thanks for your question. I personally find it difficult to predict mike positions for unfamiliar cabinets, so I start with what I tend to prefer but experiment until I'm happy with the result. That would be true on stage or in the studio. Needless to say, the results can vary with the material, and the guitar sound itself. So there's really no substitute for listening and iterating. Or going direct. ;-)

If you were asking as a sound guy who needed to get a good sound out of an artist's unfamiliar cab, I would recommend putting up two different-sounding mics, or two mics in different positions. That would allow you to choose one or the other, or a blend, during the show -- without having to go move mics around on the stage.

I'm not a touring guitarist, but I bet some other folks here are... feel free to chime in!


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Re: This forum looks like it's all studio applications. [Re: matthew mcglynn] #3002986 08/12/19 11:12 PM
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Dave Bryce Offline
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Originally Posted by matthew mcglynn
I agree 100% with Mike's comment that stage / live sound applications are fair game.

Absolutely!!!

dB

Re: This forum looks like it's all studio applications. [Re: CEB] #3003805 08/18/19 11:51 AM
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Mike Rivers Offline
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Originally Posted by CEB

I guess my question is there a safe fallback positioning method on 12" guitar speaker? or is it always a case of rolling the dice? I guess this is another case for going direct with a Helix or Kemper or Axe Fx etc...


That's an "it depends" question, for sure. If you're working with a band and you'll be miking them up on stage on a regular basis, then, sure, experiment with mic position. You can do this at home or wherever you rehearse. Or if it's a big show, there will almost certainly be a sound check and that will give you a little time to experiment. Between a Shure SM57 and a Sennheiser MD-421, it will take just a few minutes of listening and moving the mic around a bit to get a decent sound.

But if it's a one-shot deal where a band comes on stage that you've never heard before, they have an amplifier you've never seen before, and they'll be off stage in an hour never to be seen again, then put an SM57 about 8 inches out and a few inches off center and go. You should be able to work with the console EQ to get it to work. It might not be like the perfect setup you've spent a couple of hours with, but when you don't have the time to fuss, you have to use what's most likely to work.

I do live sound at folk festivals, which, for the past 30 years or so, nearly always involve some bands with electric guitars. Frequently I don't know the band, may not know the music they play, or what they're plugging into their amplifiers. A Fender Strat, a Gibson L5, and a bouzouki all get plugged into the same Fender Twin because that's what the festival rented, and they all need a different kind of sound coming out (the bouzouki players expect it to sound like an ice pick in your ear). But I find that the old reliable SM57 always gives me something to work with. If you can't get a workable sound with that, it's because the player isn't getting the right sound out of his amplifier, and when you're on the spot, that's not a problem you can deal with.

Another thing, particularly with small venues, is that the amplifier is often loud enough on stage so that you don't need to send it through the PA at all, but if you put a mic on it and look like you know what you're doing, the player will think you're taking care of things. And if the player points to the amp and says "put the mic here," do it.

Re: This forum looks like it's all studio applications. [Re: Mike Rivers] #3006278 09/03/19 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike Rivers
Originally Posted by CEB

I guess my question is there a safe fallback positioning method on 12" guitar speaker? or is it always a case of rolling the dice? I guess this is another case for going direct with a Helix or Kemper or Axe Fx etc...


That's an "it depends" question, for sure. If you're working with a band and you'll be miking them up on stage on a regular basis, then, sure, experiment with mic position. You can do this at home or wherever you rehearse. Or if it's a big show, there will almost certainly be a sound check and that will give you a little time to experiment. Between a Shure SM57 and a Sennheiser MD-421, it will take just a few minutes of listening and moving the mic around a bit to get a decent sound.

But if it's a one-shot deal where a band comes on stage that you've never heard before, they have an amplifier you've never seen before, and they'll be off stage in an hour never to be seen again, then put an SM57 about 8 inches out and a few inches off center and go. You should be able to work with the console EQ to get it to work. It might not be like the perfect setup you've spent a couple of hours with, but when you don't have the time to fuss, you have to use what's most likely to work.

I do live sound at folk festivals, which, for the past 30 years or so, nearly always involve some bands with electric guitars. Frequently I don't know the band, may not know the music they play, or what they're plugging into their amplifiers. A Fender Strat, a Gibson L5, and a bouzouki all get plugged into the same Fender Twin because that's what the festival rented, and they all need a different kind of sound coming out (the bouzouki players expect it to sound like an ice pick in your ear). But I find that the old reliable SM57 always gives me something to work with. If you can't get a workable sound with that, it's because the player isn't getting the right sound out of his amplifier, and when you're on the spot, that's not a problem you can deal with.

Another thing, particularly with small venues, is that the amplifier is often loud enough on stage so that you don't need to send it through the PA at all, but if you put a mic on it and look like you know what you're doing, the player will think you're taking care of things. And if the player points to the amp and says "put the mic here," do it.


WELL DONE. Thank you for that! I have very little experience with mics- never owned one, have rarely used them myself (I either let the sound-op place them, or went DI, or a bit of both), and I appreciate such tips from an experienced source.


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