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Supply VS. Demand


p90jr

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This video, along with the vids of people who dig through dumpsters behind Guitar Center and pull out guitars that have been destroyed so the store gets credit for them just saddens me...

 

Not that I bought one of these ugly misguided monstrosities... but I would've maybe paid a few hundred on clearance for one... or if they'd asked I could've told them no one was going to buy one (how do you get one of those consulting gigs?).

 

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I never understood the destruction of unwanted but perfectly functional guitars (and other goods) simply because they were taking up space on the floor of a retail outlet. If nothing else, the manufacturers or the stores- depending on the structure of their sales agreements- could donate SOME of those to charities* and get tax writeoffs** AND public goodwill.

 

Donate to the right organization, and you might even place the seeds of desire in someone, creating a new potential customer.

 

 

* the USO, school music programs in underserved communities, Guitars 4 Vets, etc.

 

** for as much as 100% of retail price per unit donated

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ

 

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

 

http://murphysmusictx.com/

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I never understood the destruction of unwanted but perfectly functional guitars (and other goods) simply because they were taking up space on the floor of a retail outlet. If nothing else, the manufacturers or the stores- depending on the structure of their sales agreements- could donate SOME of those to charities* and get tax writeoffs** AND public goodwill.

 

Donate to the right organization, and you might even place the seeds of desire in someone, creating a new potential customer.

 

 

* the USO, school music programs in underserved communities, Guitars 4 Vets, etc.

 

** for as much as 100% of retail price per unit donated

 

In order to completely write them off at full retail price they have to be completely destroyed. I knew a guy who owned an industrial shredder business... he traveled the country "liquidating" excess merchandise from every category you can think of... he said it was depressing.

 

I worked in supermarkets as a kid, and probably half the inventory is eventually thrown away (the illusion of choice means that even though people buy the same 3 brands of everything they won't go to a place that doesn't have 20 brands they don't bother with...).

 

I chatted with a guy at a gig the other night... he works for an agency that pays farmers to destroy their yields or not plant at all, which is part of the elaborate system we have to keep the price of food high enough to be profitable on a mass scale. It depresses him.

 

I started typing all of this and more thoughts when I made this thread, but I feel like I'm wading into the verboten political zone... but I think there has to be a better way, no?

 

If every mass-produced guitar manufacturer shut down tomorrow there's enough instruments and parts already in circulation that none of us would go without an axe. Guitars are like guns... fewer people own them but the average owner has 3-10.

 

I don't know... I have bohemian tendencies and am a post-materialist... I just don't see how this is sustainable...

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I have seen this wasteful kind of thing firsthand, not about the guitars in the thread starter, but I have witnessed the wasting of property and money on a huge scale. I worked for the sub contractor ML MacDonald at the Anheuser Busch beer plant in Jacksonville Florida, and the policy there was to waste as much money as possible in certain cases, that is if they did not meet their projected repair costs for the year. I heard that they took multiple $50,000 huge plumbing valves, and just dug a hole in the ground and buried them because they did not want to lose any of their allotment for the year, because if they did, it would go to another plant in another city. We also worked doing tile repairs (I was a mason and tile setter) and we were on a cost plus basis. Which means they charged Anheuser Busch for each hour that we worked, and believe me I never had such an easy job. I would clock in at 7 AM and we would sit around the shanty for hours just goofing off and playing cards etc. If we worked 3 hours of the 8 that we got paid for (and the company got charged for), I would be surprised.

 

And the valve thing I talked about above was not the worst of it. We tore up thousands of square feet of industrial grade quarry tile set in epoxy every year for no good reason except the concept above about that plant not wanting to lose their allotment to go to another branch, and just to make sure they laid out enough money to keep their allotment going.

 

I can't complain about it because I was happily collecting my pay for about 10% of the work I would be doing outside in the mason trade. Easiest job I ever had. So I can't bitch about it because I would never quit a cake job like that truthfully.

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I have seen this wasteful kind of thing firsthand, not about the guitars in the thread starter, but I have witnessed the wasting of property and money on a huge scale. I worked for the sub contractor ML MacDonald at the Anheuser Busch beer plant in Jacksonville Florida, and the policy there was to waste as much money as possible in certain cases, that is if they did not meet their projected repair costs for the year. I heard that they took multiple $50,000 huge plumbing valves, and just dug a hole in the ground and buried them because they did not want to lose any of their allotment for the year, because if they did, it would go to another plant in another city. We also worked doing tile repairs (I was a mason and tile setter) and we were on a cost plus basis. Which means they charged Anheuser Busch for each hour that we worked, and believe me I never had such an easy job. I would clock in at 7 AM and we would sit around the shanty for hours just goofing off and playing cards etc. If we worked 3 hours of the 8 that we got paid for (and the company got charged for), I would be surprised.

 

And the valve thing I talked about above was not the worst of it. We tore up thousands of square feet of industrial grade quarry tile set in epoxy every year for no good reason except the concept above about that plant not wanting to lose their allotment to go to another branch, and just to make sure they laid out enough money to keep their allotment going.

 

I can't complain about it because I was happily collecting my pay for about 10% of the work I would be doing outside in the mason trade. Easiest job I ever had. So I can't bitch about it because I would never quit a cake job like that truthfully.

 

Now A-B and the other major beer companies are losing customer share like crazy to all of the small "microbreweries" that are in every decent-sized city (I think we have 3 here)... so those days may be over... but maybe not.

 

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Nothing good about that, either, in my humble but honest opinion... maybe coulda gone to a benevolent charity of some sort one way or another, mighta been parted-out for reusable components...

 

I never understood the destruction of unwanted but perfectly functional guitars (and other goods) simply because they were taking up space on the floor of a retail outlet. If nothing else, the manufacturers or the stores- depending on the structure of their sales agreements- could donate SOME of those to charities* and get tax writeoffs** AND public goodwill.

 

Donate to the right organization, and you might even place the seeds of desire in someone, creating a new potential customer.

 

 

* the USO, school music programs in underserved communities, Guitars 4 Vets, etc.

 

** for as much as 100% of retail price per unit donated

 

Much agreed.

 

I hate when that happens to books at book-stores, as well. I once met a nation-wide chain book-store employee (a manager?) who would try to secretly

save some of those books and get them out and offer them at reduced prices or even for free (most often for free) when he'd meet someone, especially younger people, who might be interested in or even inspired by the specific selections he'd ferreted away. The conversation began when I'd asked about some specific books that I was looking for, and he said that he'd just given some of those titles away to some "kids", and sadly couldn't order any more... I was glad that he'd done what he did!

 

I have seen this wasteful kind of thing firsthand, not about the guitars in the thread starter, but I have witnessed the wasting of property and money on a huge scale. I worked for the sub contractor ML MacDonald at the Anheuser Busch beer plant in Jacksonville Florida, and the policy there was to waste as much money as possible in certain cases, that is if they did not meet their projected repair costs for the year. I heard that they took multiple $50,000 huge plumbing valves, and just dug a hole in the ground and buried them because they did not want to lose any of their allotment for the year, because if they did, it would go to another plant in another city. We also worked doing tile repairs (I was a mason and tile setter) and we were on a cost plus basis. Which means they charged Anheuser Busch for each hour that we worked, and believe me I never had such an easy job. I would clock in at 7 AM and we would sit around the shanty for hours just goofing off and playing cards etc. If we worked 3 hours of the 8 that we got paid for (and the company got charged for), I would be surprised.

 

And the valve thing I talked about above was not the worst of it. We tore up thousands of square feet of industrial grade quarry tile set in epoxy every year for no good reason except the concept above about that plant not wanting to lose their allotment to go to another branch, and just to make sure they laid out enough money to keep their allotment going.

 

Now A-B and the other major beer companies are losing customer share like crazy to all of the small "microbreweries" that are in every decent-sized city (I think we have 3 here)... so those days may be over... but maybe not.

 

Indeed! And YUM. :2thu: When I have a beer, I like GOOD BEER.

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Every economic system has inefficiencies.

 

I'm an "Agnostic" on Economics... I've taken classes, I still read an awful lot about it, I think most of it is Bullshit.

 

 

Indeed. Many keep selling the same antiques and collectibles etc. etc. back and forth to each other for escalating prices, telling ourselves that we're making a profit. In much the same way, many keep telling and selling their stories and theories (not always in the scientific sense of the word) back and forth.

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Now A-B and the other major beer companies are losing customer share like crazy to all of the small "microbreweries" that are in every decent-sized city (I think we have 3 here)... so those days may be over... but maybe not.

 

My comments were based on my experience with the Anheuser Busch Jacksonville plant back in the mid 90's, that was before the company got sold to the Belgium beer maker InBev.

 

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When I see this sort of wanton waste, and there's no other word for it, I don't just think of the Guitars the might have been donated, or the parts that might have been recovered and re-used, but the entire chain of production, including the human capital that went into harvesting the wood, mining the minerals, refining, processing, shipping, and this is the house that Jack built.

 

I don't know how many trees that represents, how much pollution generated to produce and destroy something no one seems to have wanted, how much money went spinning around the globe to wind up in a landfill somewhere. It's not sustainable, it's suicidal. Resources aren't simply disposable, period: there is an environmental cost to production and distribution (never mind marketing, but that's a whole other subject) that is magnified by this kind of waste.

 

It really would have been better if those Guitars had never been made, for many reasons, and seeing this should convince most of us not to buy any new Gibson gear, because we'll be helping to pay for, and even justify, what you see in that video.

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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It really would have been better if those Guitars had never been made, for many reasons, and seeing this should convince most of us not to buy any new Gibson gear, because we'll be helping to pay for, and even justify, what you see in that video.

 

+1 Winston Psmith, and I will probably never buy a new Gibson for many reasons. Price vs value is my main reason. But such waste is appalling.

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A lot of good suggestions. Only thing worse that turning over guitars is turning over food crops and throwing food away. Too many people starving out there! I think giving them to boys and girls clubs, Guitars for Vets and other charities is a good idea. Or we could ship them over to China and have them cut into flying V's and sell them to Dean? :cool:
Take care, Larryz
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This was a limited batch of irreparable Firebird Xs. This happened quite a while ago. I have a copy of the memo from Gibson explaining this and how they have ramped up the Gibson Foundation. But the attachment manager doesn't work for me I'll put the press release on the Facebook group if anyone is interested. People on social media are just begging for excuses to hate on Gibson right now. Traditionally Gibson never did 2nds and never let them leave the factory.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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Gibson has release the following statement in response to this video.

 

'The Firebird X destruction video that surfaced months ago was an isolated batch of Firebird X models built in 2009-2011 which were unsalvageable and damaged with unsafe components. This isolated group of Firebird X models were unable to be donated for any purpose and were destroyed accordingly."

 

'Gibson recently announced its re-launch of the Gibson Foundation. Since 2002, the Gibson Foundation has provided thousands of guitars and donations to schools and charities in excess of $30 million. As a starting point, Gibson has committed to giving a guitar-a-day away over the next 1000 days. 100% of donations to the Gibson Foundation go directly towards giving the gift of music, re-affirming Gibson"s commitment to giving back, helping under-served music education programs, empowering music culture and encouraging the creation of music.'

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I don't know. Trogly thinks it is part of the Memphis plant closure. BJ World who posted the video on YouTube has a few other vids of Gibson stuff being dismantled and destroyed at Memphis. Theory is he works for the demolition company clearing out what is left of Gibson so Fed Ex can move in. It makes sense because Gibson destroys guitars all the time they usually just saw them up. I can't imagine why they would do it this way.

 

FWIW. Sometimes stuff makes it out of the plant tha shouldn't. I have interesting stories of things that have showed up in the shop the Gibson did think went out. It can be interesting having to deal with it. Someday I'll tell you the story about the 335 that came in with the bridge post installed in the wrong place that was bought at a charity auction... Long story short Gibson considered it a stolen guitar. The guy that gave it to the charity was fired. They wanted the guitar back.

 

The Alpine white SG with the finish that went bad was a fun one ......

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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FWIW, I have seen Gibson Guitars with "2nd" stamped onto the back of the headstock, right under the serial number. They may have discontinued the practice, but at some point, those Guitars were getting out.

 

I have to wonder about the unsafe components, too? Unless we're taking about a Lithium battery that was prone to self-immolation, I don't know what could be so potentially dangerous?

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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That would have been 1974? Norlin controlled Gibson from 74-85 I think.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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My Epiphone (owned by Gibson) Joe Pass is a factory second. The clear lacquer finish has a few runs and spots in it, but you have to look for the flaws to see them. They're on the side and back, which makes the flaws not noticeable when I play the guitar.
I rock; therefore, I am.
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Not to defend Gibson, but I would be surprised if they were the only ones doing it.

 

They are not the only ones. A friend of mine was a product consultant for Yamaha. He tells of watching a crew wield a machine which was punching 6" diameter holes through synths back in the 90s. He pleaded with them to let him drive the keyboards to local schools, & the company insisted that for tax reasons the synths had to be 100% unusable/unsalvageable or else they would have to pay for the inventory.

Scott Fraser
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