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A Backline Story...


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...Or how I came to own a Roland Fantom G6 I don't particularly want.

 

Some of you may have seen the frantic post I sent out last week looking for a Fantom G6. Now that the dust has settled, I though you might enjoy the story behind it.

 

My company provides sound for the local county fair, including the main stage performers. Part of our contract is that we provide backline for the performers who require it, either we provide it ourselves from the collection of amps and drumkits that we own, or we contact a regional backline guy who pretty much always comes through for us. We bill the fair for the backline rental on top of our fee.

 

One of the acts this year was a dance-pop singer who had a number of hits in the '80's. Her rider called for us to backline her entire band, drumkit, guitar and bass amps, and keys. The rider called for a Nord Stage, and a Roland Fantom G6 or G7, no substitutions. When we got the rider several months ago, we called around the local providers, our usual guy couldn't get one, but we could get one from SIR in Portland, they'd have to ship one up from LA, and it'd cost $800 for one night rental, which is absurd, but the fair would cover whatever we had to pay.

 

After asking around our circle of musician friends, we found a local guy, a drummer actually, who said he had a G6, even confirmed in email that it was a G6. We agreed to pay him $200 for the rental, he was happy, the fair was happy we saved them some $$, and we were happy. So we thought.

 

Now, let me digress a bit. The Fantom is a something we never see on riders, usually people ask for Yamaha Motif, Korg Kronos or Triton series, or Nord Electro or Stage. Or, this is becoming more common, people ask for an 88 and a 61 key controller, and bring a laptop or a module with the sounds they need. And it's rare that we get that specific a request for one model, it said no XS or G8 or any other Fantom model, had to be G6 or G7. My first thought was this keyboard guy could have made it easier on us and himself, either get a Roland module that had those specific sounds. The G6 has not been made for at least 10 years.

 

So, last Monday, we have a day off between festivals and are getting stuff organized for the fair. We go to pick up the keyboard from the local drummer, and it's a Fantom Xs, not a G6 like the guy told us. Frantically, we call the advance person for the artist, they say no substitutions. We ask them to actually call the keyboardist, advance guy calls back a few minutes later, saying positively no substitutions, gotta be a G6. At this point, we're kinda frantic. we start searching, asking friends, posting to social media, etc. We find 2 for sale, one on ebay in Japan, and one about 80 miles away for $1800. We ask the guy selling it if he'd rent it, no way, and if he'd be flexible on price, nope. So, after a day of exhausting all our resources, we send one of our crew up with cash to test and buy the G6. It took nearly all the profit from our last festival to cover it, but you do what you gotta.

 

Keyboard works, is in pretty good shape. though not as pristine as the guy claimed in his ad, but whatever. Friday afternoon, the day of the show, the artist shows up with her band. Keyboardist is a killer NYC session guy, really badass player and totally nice guy. We tell him what we went through, and he says the Xs would have been fine, he'd never talked to his advance people, and he should probably update their rider. He says the G6 is pretty commonly available as backline on the East Coast, and he was sorry he'd put us through so much effort to get it for him, and he was really appreciative.

 

We soundcheck the band before the singer arrives, you can tell from the get go that they are all total badass players, great tones, major pocket. Singer shows up, and all she wants to hear in her monitors is the backing tracks, which have complete arrangements, and out from she wants 60% backing tracks and 40% band in the mix. The tracks are not terrible sounding, but she has a stage full of killer musicians who are basically being glorified mimes for most of her set.

 

There are 3 songs in her set that have no tracks, and the band just sounds killer for those, in fact, those 3 tunes are the highlight of the festival for me, amazing pocket, singer actually sounds great, the band stretches out. Rest of the set, I'm just trying to get a little bit of the band to shine through the wall of tracks. It seemed like such a waste of talent.

 

So, now my company owns a Fantom G6. Because we'd already worked out the budget for backline, we only got paid the $200 we'd agreed to earlier, so we lost $1600 on it. It's not a terrible board. but there are other instruments I'd personally spend that money on before it. Our local backline guy says he'll contact us if he gets a request for it, so maybe we'll pay it off someday, but probably not soon.

 

God, I love the music business sometimes.

Turn up the speaker

Hop, flop, squawk

It's a keeper

-Captain Beefheart, Ice Cream for Crow

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So you got screwed because the person from the fair didn't check with you about the backline before agreeing to the woman's ryder on her contract. I'd be all over the fair people to pay you you more to help cover the cost of that keyboard. Crap like that goes on where I live the city for events and fair doesn't know jack about gear all they know is who's creap even if every band in town hates who they hire. I'm one of those known to be unafraid to rock the boat, because nothing is going to change until some of the bands turn down gigs unless a different sound company in my case gets hire.

 

Me I would of call the fair said that keyboard you agreed to on Madame X's ryder is only available in L.A. and will cost $X to have it shipped here. You want Madame X you pay for that rental and shipping bill. That way the ball is in their court, if Madame X doesn't get her keyboard.

 

Sorry old roadies like me are allergic to BS.

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So you got screwed because the person from the fair didn't check with you about the backline before agreeing to the woman's ryder on her contract. I'd be all over the fair people to pay you you more to help cover the cost of that keyboard. Crap like that goes on where I live the city for events and fair doesn't know jack about gear all they know is who's creap even if every band in town hates who they hire. I'm one of those known to be unafraid to rock the boat, because nothing is going to change until some of the bands turn down gigs unless a different sound company in my case gets hire.

 

Me I would of call the fair said that keyboard you agreed to on Madame X's ryder is only available in L.A. and will cost $X to have it shipped here. You want Madame X you pay for that rental and shipping bill. That way the ball is in their court, if Madame X doesn't get her keyboard.

 

Sorry old roadies like me are allergic to BS.

 

Yeah, my partners talked to the Fair and explained the situation, and apparently they are going to attempt to find funds to cover part of the keyboard. They had agreed to the $800 from SIR already after all, and given the outcome, we probably should have just stuck with that. When we found out Monday, it was too late to get it from SIR.

 

We actually have a pretty good relationship with the Fair. They send us riders, and we confirm we can fulfill them before they sign final contracts. When we originally arranged with the local drummer, final contracts had not yet been signed.

 

I should have visited the drummer and confirmed that it was the right board, I'm the only keys guy on the crew. I still think it's kinda ridiculous for the keyboardist to expect to be provided with a board that hasn't been made for a decade, especially when the same sound set is available from other sources. Oh, and I forgot to mention, when the keyboardist showed up, he asked for a Roland 1080 module, which we didn't have and wasn't on the rider we got. When we showed him the rider, he said that what we got was outdated. This is an ongoing source of frustration, I think at least half of the touring shows we do have provided us with outdated riders.

 

Turn up the speaker

Hop, flop, squawk

It's a keeper

-Captain Beefheart, Ice Cream for Crow

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So you got screwed because the person from the fair didn't check with you about the backline before agreeing to the woman's ryder on her contract.

 

When I was tour manager for Well Known Country Artist it was my responsibility to call the sound/backline company and work out the details regarding the tech rider. If there was something that the backline company didn't have I called the band member to discuss options. New&Improv's situation shouldn't have happened if the tour manager had done their job correctly.

9 Moog things, 3 Roland things, 2 Hammond things and a computer with stuff on it

 

 

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A number of years ago we were opening for a major smooth jazz (saxophone) artist here in Dallas. I arrived fairly early to the event since we typically we have to setup around the headliners gear. To my surprise the stage was completely bare other than front of house, stage monitors, risers and lights. Huge National act type stage sponsored by the local smooth jazz radio station. So I asked the FOH guy about the stage plot and setupsetup. In the conversation I asked him about the headliner's back line gear and he said they were brining there own. Not unusual other than it not being there. I said wow, since we were only a couple of hours away from start time. He said I know, just go ahead and setup and shrugged his shoulders and walked away. So we setup and started the show.

 

Long story short, the headliner band arrives with only their personal gear, saxes, guitars, a small carry on keyboard rack and a few other items. Apparently there was a mix up and back line was never ordered. We ended up playing an hour longer as the production team scrambled. They ended up using our gear and the show went on without a hitch. Really nice bunch of guys and were extremely appreciative. One gig I will always remember.

Montage 7, Mojo 61, PC-3, XK-3c Pro, Kronos 88, Hammond SK-1, Motif XF- 7, Hammond SK-2, Roland FR-1, FR-18, Hammond B3 - Blond, Hammond BV -Cherry
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You should be able to sell that Fantom G and get something out of it. They're considered the culmination of the Fantom line, and have a number of improvements over previous models. $1200 should be easy - a few hundred more if you are patient.

 

It's pretty easy to deduce who the unnamed artist is. She had a number of highly sequenced synthpop minor hits that would be hard to reproduce live - no matter how talented the band. So I can kind of understand the reliance on backing tracks if she wants to stay buried in the 80s.

 

However If I were to see her live, I would greatly prefer the material brought up to date with a live band. There's no iconic 80s hits, so she could get away with it. I briefly listened to a couple of her tracks on Youtube as a refresher, and it's painfully obsolete - synthpop at it's worst.

 

Wow what a story New&Improv! Great reading on a quiet Sunday night. Thanks for posting! :thu:

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So you got screwed because the person from the fair didn't check with you about the backline before agreeing to the woman's ryder on her contract.

 

When I was tour manager for Well Known Country Artist it was my responsibility to call the sound/backline company and work out the details regarding the tech rider. If there was something that the backline company didn't have I called the band member to discuss options. New&Improv's situation shouldn't have happened if the tour manager had done their job correctly.

 

I crewed on a Yes tour a long time ago and their ryder was like two-inch thick document, even with that we'd get to stops that things weren't right and we'd have to improvise. Problem was concert promoters would say well they don't really need that much power, our stage is one few feet narrower, they don't need that many local stage hands to assist, and on and on. So even double checking doesn't always mean it's going to be right, and you don't know until the day of the show and tickets are sold and people expect a show. For me twice once with a Yes show and again with a Jackson Brown show the stage wasn't big enough for the PA and we ended up actually using our monitor system for FOH.

 

Now one time on the Yes tour our managers (we had four of the management team on the road with us) screwed up big time. They added another date to the tour in Buffalo at the football stadium. We realized our PA was going to be too small and since Clair Brothers also did Elton John we were able to borrow Elton's PA for the Buffalo show (great sounding PA). The problem is no one thought to check the weight difference between the two PAs so during setup the wings of the stage for the PA started to crack and breakdown. So quick call to local lumber yard and a truckload of 4x4 and stage wings reinforced and show was only a little over an hour late to start.

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I still think it's kinda ridiculous for the keyboardist to expect to be provided with a board that hasn't been made for a decade, especially when the same sound set is available from other sources.

Only problem I see here is, the Fantom G"s soundest isn't available in any module or other board. At least not in its entirety. A shame, because I like it, honestly, better than the current FA06/7/8 set. (this is going off of recordings). Also I believe that board has quite a few features not available on others. Including a better action than the current models. So as a keys person, I don"t think it"s ridiculous, but he should have a backup plan.

Yamaha: Motif XF8, MODX7, YS200, CVP-305, CLP-130, YPG-235, PSR-295, PSS-470 | Roland: Fantom 7, JV-1000

Kurzweil: PC3-76, PC4 (88) | Hammond: SK Pro 73 | Korg: Triton LE 76, N1R, X5DR | Emu: Proteus/1 | Casio: CT-370 | Novation: Launchkey 37 MK3 | Technics: WSA1R

Former: Emu Proformance Plus & Mo'Phatt, Korg Krome 61, Roland Fantom XR & JV-1010, Yamaha MX61, Behringer CAT

Assorted electric & acoustic guitars and electric basses | Roland TD-17 KVX | Alesis SamplePad Pro | Assorted organs, accordions, other instruments

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You should be able to sell that Fantom G and get something out of it. They're considered the culmination of the Fantom line, and have a number of improvements over previous models. $1200 should be easy - a few hundred more if you are patient.

 

It's pretty easy to deduce who the unnamed artist is. She had a number of highly sequenced synthpop minor hits that would be hard to reproduce live - no matter how talented the band. So I can kind of understand the reliance on backing tracks if she wants to stay buried in the 80s.

 

However If I were to see her live, I would greatly prefer the material brought up to date with a live band. There's no iconic 80s hits, so she could get away with it. I briefly listened to a couple of her tracks on Youtube as a refresher, and it's painfully obsolete - synthpop at it's worst.

 

Wow what a story New&Improv! Great reading on a quiet Sunday night. Thanks for posting! :thu:

 

Yeah, the tunes that didn"t have tracks were more in an R&B/Adult Contemporary style that really suited her band and, imho, her mature voice. She"s actually a very good singer. It was a kind of weird scene watching videos of her in her 20"s on the video wall while she"s onstage in her 50"s.

Turn up the speaker

Hop, flop, squawk

It's a keeper

-Captain Beefheart, Ice Cream for Crow

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It's pretty easy to deduce who the unnamed artist is. She had a number of highly sequenced synthpop minor hits that would be hard to reproduce live - no matter how talented the band. So I can kind of understand the reliance on backing tracks if she wants to stay buried in the 80s.
If we're thinking about the same person, I thought she was pretty hot! Maybe not the same person, the one I'm thinking about had some pretty big hits.

 

Maybe we can play the blind item game here. Our singer shares the same name as a current major star?

 

Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands

Tommy Rude Soundcloud

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I thought she was pretty hot! Maybe not the same person, the one I'm thinking about had some pretty big hits.
I had to read that last word a couple of times to be sure.

:)

 

[wipes spewed seltzer off monitor]

 

Dr. Mike Metlay (PhD in nuclear physics, golly gosh) :D

Musician, Author, Editor, Educator, Impresario, Online Radio Guy, Cut-Rate Polymath, and Kindly Pedant

Editor-in-Chief, Bjooks ~ Author of SYNTH GEMS 1

 

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There were a few hundred female synth-pop artists in the 80's, how about a few more hints as to which one you are talking about please?

Agreed. Is it really that big of a deal to just say who it is?

 

Also, how typical is it to not be able to talk to the band members themselves to discuss these things? Sounds like a less than 5-minute phone conversation with them would've cleared it up.

MainStage; Hammond SK1-73; Roland XP-80, JV-90, JV-1080, JV-1010, AX-1; Korg microSAMPLER;

Boss DR-880; Beat Buddy; Neo Instruments Ventilator; TC Electronic ND-1 Nova Delay

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You"d think they would occasionally tailor the rider to the venue, but I suppose some artists would never deign to do that.

 

 

ryders are typically minimum requirements, so promoters or clubs etc know what they need to handle an artist.

 

Or last minute changes like a benefit for the church I was working at. We had a big name female artist who wanted to do the benefit and could be done cheaply since she lived in L.A. where the church was located. Then after months of planning and ticket sales she started adding conditions, like her own band, lucky for us they were local and agreed to do the benefit for just some expense money. The big pain in the ass was two days before benefit her manager calls and says. Madame X is going to be busy the day of the benefit running errands and whats a full dressing room with shower. We say she lives in town she can't go home before come here???? Manager oh she quirky if she goes home she won't leave, once she's home, she home for the night? So long story short we have to rent one of the big Winnebago to get her a dressing room with shower. So that benefit Madame X want to do to help ended up not make a lot of money after all the expenses were covered.

 

Oh show almost didn't go on because during sound check Madames X own teleprompter guy was having trouble with his computer controlled teleprompter with her lyrics. Can't expect Madame X to remember the lyric to her own hits.

 

Last Madame X's sound man was great, but took ALL DAY to get monitors system tweaked to her liking, or as he warned us she wouldn't sing very good. So her sound man arrived about 8am to start setting up. About 10am the band shows up for their sound check. One of the band's assistant doubles as Madame X to get general idea if her guitar and vocal should be good for FOH. They leave about 45 minutes later. The sound man spend until about 5pm tweaking our system (full Avid Venue system) and moving monitors so Madame X will feel comfortable to sing. He leave about 6pm to get dinner before show at 8pm.

 

So this all started as Madame X wanted to help the benefit for one of the hurricane disasters and be PART of a benefit. To Madame X deciding she didn't want to be part, she had to be the whole herself, to no you can video it to raise more for the disaster relief, to the constant depends for special food, showers, and etc. I've worked with way bigger artists that were far less of a pain in the ass some were a lot of fun to work with.

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Honestly guys you can't get more hint-y than Samuel! :D
If only one person gets the joke, that's enough for me. Glad it was appreciated.

 

Understood if the OP doesn't want to name names (or have the name named on the forum). A little internet sleuthing satisfied my curiosity.

Samuel B. Lupowitz

Musician. Songwriter. Food Enthusiast. Bad Pun Aficionado.

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Only problem I see here is, the Fantom G"s soundest isn't available in any module or other board. At least not in its entirety. A shame, because I like it, honestly, better than the current FA06/7/8 set. (this is going off of recordings). Also I believe that board has quite a few features not available on others. Including a better action than the current models. So as a keys person, I don"t think it"s ridiculous, but he should have a backup plan.

Right, there's no other board or module that has the Fantom G sound set. The FA has the much older XV-5080 sound set, plus VA synth, Clonewheel (kinda), and a handful supernatural Acoustic sounds. Basically, nothing in the FA was in the Fantom G. The Juno DS comes a little closer, because at least its basic sound set is Fantom-derived, but it certainly does not have anything like the entire Fantom G sound set.

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Honestly guys you can't get more hint-y than Samuel! :D
If only one person gets the joke, that's enough for me. Glad it was appreciated.

 

Understood if the OP doesn't want to name names (or have the name named on the forum). A little internet sleuthing satisfied my curiosity.

Got it. I just figured Samuel has an impressive vocabulary. ;)

 

Also, it's too bad nobody has the cajones to 'tell it to her face' that she has great musicians without relying on backing tracks.

MainStage; Hammond SK1-73; Roland XP-80, JV-90, JV-1080, JV-1010, AX-1; Korg microSAMPLER;

Boss DR-880; Beat Buddy; Neo Instruments Ventilator; TC Electronic ND-1 Nova Delay

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I would guess based on my years when a Fantom X7 was at the heart of my rig, that it's not just a matter of the "sound set" but also the whole architecture of the instrument, i.e. he had combi's set up (trying to recall, I think it's "programs" in Roland-speak) that they want to load. I used to have different sets of songs-specific set-ups, each set saved onto a 2GB smart card, for each of the bands I played with at the time, and when I was lucky enough to be doing some flyaway gigs here and there, would request an X7 or X8 on our equipment rider and then it would be an easy matter to pop the smart card in and have all my stuff. (I'd also bring the Roland SRX cards I was using for additional sounds and install those on the rental.) Anyway, I don't think that data would have been compatible with and loadable onto any other flavor of Fantom instruments (so I too wouldn't have been able to use any "substitutes"). Even back then the Fantom X was a bit outdated but to my surprise I never had any problem having one provided; I guess they were a popular choice among traveling keyboardists, probably still are.

Rich Forman

Yamaha MOXF8, Korg Kronos 2-61, Roland Fantom X7, Ferrofish B4000+ organ module, Roland VR-09, EV ZLX12P, K&M Spider Pro stand,

Yamaha S80, Korg Trinity Plus

 

 

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Honestly guys you can't get more hint-y than Samuel! :D
If only one person gets the joke, that's enough for me. Glad it was appreciated.

 

Understood if the OP doesn't want to name names (or have the name named on the forum). A little internet sleuthing satisfied my curiosity.

 

You might very well think that, I couldn"t possibly comment...

Turn up the speaker

Hop, flop, squawk

It's a keeper

-Captain Beefheart, Ice Cream for Crow

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Honestly guys you can't get more hint-y than Samuel! :D
If only one person gets the joke, that's enough for me. Glad it was appreciated.

 

Understood if the OP doesn't want to name names (or have the name named on the forum). A little internet sleuthing satisfied my curiosity.

 

I didn't pick it up first time but great work :D

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I would guess based on my years when a Fantom X7 was at the heart of my rig, that it's not just a matter of the "sound set" but also the whole architecture of the instrument, i.e. he had combi's set up (trying to recall, I think it's "programs" in Roland-speak) that they want to load. I used to have different sets of songs-specific set-ups, each set saved onto a 2GB smart card, for each of the bands I played with at the time, and when I was lucky enough to be doing some flyaway gigs here and there, would request an X7 or X8 on our equipment rider and then it would be an easy matter to pop the smart card in and have all my stuff. (I'd also bring the Roland SRX cards I was using for additional sounds and install those on the rental.) Anyway, I don't think that data would have been compatible with and loadable onto any other flavor of Fantom instruments (so I too wouldn't have been able to use any "substitutes"). Even back then the Fantom X was a bit outdated but to my surprise I never had any problem having one provided; I guess they were a popular choice among traveling keyboardists, probably still are.

 

Yeah, I thought that might be the situation, or maybe that he had her entire show sequenced in the G6. But he basically just used factory patches, and mostly used the G6 for synth leads and comps. All the really specific synth parts were in the tracks.

Turn up the speaker

Hop, flop, squawk

It's a keeper

-Captain Beefheart, Ice Cream for Crow

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