MODX vs PXS3000 keybed questions

[SaskiaHamilton]

So am tying myself in proverbial knots to come to a decision in regards to setting up a new keyboard rig based on some potential gigging opportunities. I have some solo/small local gigs (coffeehouses/weddings) type of things where it will mainly be piano/organs and some extra instruments and then also the opportunity to gig with a couple of bands where I'll need some more expansive sounds, synths and midi options (splits etc). I have limited transport options and budget so am trying to go with the most portable/affordable options available.

 

Based on the above have settled on the PX-S3000 which ticks the box for the smaller gigs (v portable, speakers and good sound pallette, plus keybed feels pretty good to me), and then going for the MODX7 for the other scenario because IMHO its a great sounding machine at a great price.

 

Is my thinking sound? or should I go with the MODX8 to cover both. The later scenario means am only dealing with one board (though it is heavier) and is cheaper, though I don't have the speaker option of the Casio. The main issue is am eally struggling to try out a MODX8 to see how the keybed is compared to the Casio. Has anyone on here got a comparison? Can I cover both scenarios with the MODX or is having something for each a better fit.

 

Happy to hear any thoughts / suggestions

[AnotherScott]

solo/small local gigs (coffeehouses/weddings) type of things where it will mainly be piano/organs and some extra instruments...limited transport options and budget so am trying to go with the most portable/affordable options available

If piano and organ are equally important (or even close), I'd look at the Numa Compact 2X instead of the Casio PX-S3000, because while both have perfectly good piano sounds, Numa is in another league on organ (though I'd also try to add a rotary pedal like the Lester K for an improved Leslie effect). Action will always be a compromise in one direction or the other, but again assuming that both sounds are nearly equally important, I'd rather play piano on the semi-weighted Numa than organ on the hammer action Casio. Plus the Numa is even lighter than the Casio. However--though I have not made a direct comparison--I'd assume that the speakers on the Casio are substantially better. If the Casio speakers are good enough to use in a solo situation, and the Numa's are not, that could be a big complication here. However, I would not necessarily assume that either are good enough for your solo gigs, you may need supplementary amplification either way, which would negate that difference. Possible additional benefit to the Numa... it's not impossible that it could be all you need for your other kinds of gigs as well.

[SaskiaHamilton]

Thanks for the reponse. Sadly the Compact is semi-weighted so that would rule that out as tbh the PXS3000 is mainly for piano, the other sounds are nice to have (but I probably need more than the PXS1000 offers), so I don't need anything that specifically benefits an organ.

 

My question might have been better phrased as to whether MODX8 is good enough from a piano players perspective to negate the need for the Casio? Or really is it betetr to have a more dedicated DP and leave the MODX to what its better at?

[jimkost2002]

Thanks for the reponse. Sadly the Compact is semi-weighted so that would rule that out as tbh the PXS3000 is mainly for piano, the other sounds are nice to have (but I probably need more than the PXS1000 offers), so I don't need anything that specifically benefits an organ.

 

My question might have been better phrased as to whether MODX8 is good enough from a piano players perspective to negate the need for the Casio? Or really is it betetr to have a more dedicated DP and leave the MODX to what its better at?

 

Unfortunately, the MODX8 keybed is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. End of story. Truly unfortunate since the sounds are top notch.

 

Maybe your solution would be get the Casio for piano and then Midi a a MODX6 to it, and have a little submixer next to you to mute the Casio when you need the MODX sounds?

 

[ElmerJFudd]

Thanks for the reponse. Sadly the Compact is semi-weighted so that would rule that out as tbh the PXS3000 is mainly for piano, the other sounds are nice to have (but I probably need more than the PXS1000 offers), so I don't need anything that specifically benefits an organ.

 

My question might have been better phrased as to whether MODX8 is good enough from a piano players perspective to negate the need for the Casio? Or really is it betetr to have a more dedicated DP and leave the MODX to what its better at?

 

The Yamaha MODX8 is carried at most chain music shops. And the Casio is starting to show up as well. I would not dismiss the MODX8 as not good enough for piano work since it uses the GHS action that appears in so many budget Yamaha digital pianos. You need to try them out. It felt pretty decent on the MODX8's that I have sat down at. Does it compare with the Yamaha CP4 or CP88? No, those Yamaha actions are a step up and then some. How great would it be to have all the MODX sounds in the CP88? Pretty #$&^ great. But does it compare to the compact action Casio is putting in the PX-Sx000? Probably, although I need to get into the shop to play this revision (will be doing so this week).

[AnotherScott]

Unfortunately, the MODX8 keybed is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. End of story. Truly unfortunate since the sounds are top notch.

While I agree that there is pretty much consensus that the recent vintage Privia actions are superior to the Yamaha GHS actions, there are many owners of MODX8 who are perfectly content playing piano on them. People have different thresholds of "good enough" and I don't think anyone can definitively make this determination for someone else.

 

Maybe your solution would be get the Casio for piano and then Midi a a MODX6 to it, and have a little submixer next to you to mute the Casio when you need the MODX sounds?

It's not an ideal solution. The Casio has no standard DIN MIDI jacks, so you need another device between them. The Casio only transmits on one MIDI channel, and the MODX is limited in what it can do when driven by a single channel controller (though it's probably good enough in this case, as the limitations really only come into play when you want to play the internal and external keys simultaneously, each triggering different combinations of MODX sounds). Assuming the only real issue is the DIN MIDI jacks, an option could be to go with the Casio PX-360 instead of the PX-S3000. BTW, no submixer needed, you can just turn the volume knob down on the Casio itself, it will have no affect on it MIDI.

 

[SaskiaHamilton]

Sadly, that seems to be the general consensus about the MODX keybed, sounds like much better to go with the 6 or 7 and go with two boards if thats the case.

 

 

[gg22]

I personally prefer MODX8 keybed and sounds to Casio, so I would just get the MODX8. But you need to try them both yourself.

[Dockeys]

It's a very difficult question to answer. Obviously very subjective. I have both boards and I bought both to cover different gigs. The casio was to cover small choir rehearsals to save bringing an amp as well as some jazz gigs, pre dinner wedding gigs etc. The yamaha is to cover musicals, wedding bands or anything that requires a large palette of sound and necessitates quick patch changes, multiple layers etc.

 

I started using the Casio first on gigs and it worked well however its lack of patch names in the user registration (a glaring omission for me) meant its a no nó for any gigs where I have lots of layers or scene changes. I've read where some people resorted to cheat sheets sellotaped to the piano to remind them of the patch name. I can't really work like that So the casio has been used primiraly as a jazz gig keyboard.

 

I have used the modx8 on all types of gigs and it's worked out well so far. The action isn't up there with the likes of the motif ES/XS/XF8 or S90 series. When I demoed it in store It felt like the keys came to a shallow end when depressed. The model I bought didn't feel as drastic as that though but it's still not perfect. However the CFX piano patch on the modx8 is street's ahead of previous iterations so the finger to ear connection is really nice imo.

 

I've had the MOX8 and Moxf8. I eventually sold both because the action just frustrated me. Even though its the same action on the modx8 I find it a lot better. I've used it for jazz gigs as well as more patch intensive gigs. If I had 2/3 gigs in a day I would have no hesitation in bringing the modx8 to cover everything.

 

One caveat, I was using a Kronos 73 up to a few months ago and I was tired to carrying the 23kilo monster to gigs. I had already made up my mind that there would be several trade offs if I wanted a lighter machine. In this case its probably a lesser action but its not bad imo. I'm glad I sold the Kronos and I'm happy playing the Modx8 and find it doesn't hinder my playing an any manner. Also there's a bosendorfer sample available for the modx8 which I haven't tried yet but apparently it's very nice.

 

One other thing is that the keys on the px3000 are textured and the ones on the modx8 are not. It does make a difference. I find the modx8 non textured surface a little too smooth and slippy at times.

 

So in summary for me the modx8 has worked well for all gigs as does the px3000 for smaller ones and I'm using it as my main controller for pianoteq in the studio. Modx8 with the casio action or even the Cp73 action would be killer but thats not on offer at the price point so no use dreaming about it. Hope this helps.

[SaskiaHamilton]

So frustrating that no-one in the vicinity stocks the MODX8 (plenty of 6/7) to get the comparison. I am by no means a great player so am not sure how much better one keybed will be than the other to me. Soundwise I thought MODX had the edge on most of the instruments

 

One thing I have noticed though from online videos (not best i judge I know) is how much noisier the keybed of the MODX seems to be which worries me a little

 

[SaskiaHamilton]

Dockeys - that's really helpful to know, thanks for your input. This forum is invaluable!

[jimkost2002]

Sadly, that seems to be the general consensus about the MODX keybed, sounds like much better to go with the 6 or 7 and go with two boards if thats the case.

 

 

 

I had one for 3 weeks and I tried EVERYTHING i knew physically to make the keybed work adequately.

.......'good enough' is not good enough on a professional level!

[Dockeys]

One thing I have noticed though from online videos (not best i judge I know) is how much noisier the keybed of the MODX seems to be which worries me a little

 

Yeah I heard about the noisy and clacky keys too before I purchased. I read about it on the yamahamusicforum I think? There were about 4-5 users with clacky keys at certain points. I did experience this with the ghs action when I first bought the moxf8 and I sent it back for a replacement and never had that issue again.

 

So I was a bit apprehensive when buying but then again 4-5 cases out of possibly thousands of units is very small and for me not big enough to warrent a major issue. Anyway I bought, crossed my fingers and its been fine. Perhaps it was an early batch issue?

 

 

[drawback]

So frustrating that no-one in the vicinity stocks the MODX8 (plenty of 6/7) to get the comparison. I am by no means a great player so am not sure how much better one keybed will be than the other to me. Soundwise I thought MODX had the edge on most of the instruments

 

One thing I have noticed though from online videos (not best i judge I know) is how much noisier the keybed of the MODX seems to be which worries me a little

 

This post helps. I"d go for the one board solution. You may even want to sidetrack and take a look at another brand ie Kurzweil, but you may not be able to find one to try. I wouldn"t worry about keybed noise - you"re going to need amplification anyway. Yamaha makes good gear. If you can get away with the organ sound, the MODX8 is it.

[SaskiaHamilton]

Drawback - I see you have a Keylab 88, as do I - how does the Keybed on the MODX8 (am assuming you've tried one) compare?

[gg22]

So frustrating that no-one in the vicinity stocks the MODX8 (plenty of 6/7) to get the comparison. I am by no means a great player so am not sure how much better one keybed will be than the other to me. Soundwise I thought MODX had the edge on most of the instruments

 

 

There are many other Yamaha boards with this keybed action (GHS) - MOXF8, P125, P45, etc. One of them should be in the store to try.

[SaskiaHamilton]

That's handy to know - when I asked in two local stores they had no idea and both had the P125 in!

[drawback]

Drawback - I see you have a Keylab 88, as do I - how does the Keybed on the MODX8 (am assuming you've tried one) compare?

 

It's noticeably lighter than a Fatar TP100/LR (I wish I knew what LR stands for.... like, for those who use both hands at the same time? ) which is in my former SL88 Studio controller and my new Keylab MKii 88. I don't know if Arturia has its own adjustments ordered for their keyboards, but I find the new Keylab to be more assertive-feeling, less bouncy/flubby than the SL88 and the original Keylab 88.

 

I've played on the GHS action at a retailer. Can't recall whether it was a MODX8, but for sure on a DGX-660. For multi-use keybed, I felt that it would suit me because it covers a lot of middle ground. I played for years on a one-board NordStage2 SW73. I got used to the compromise for piano (in a band context) and AnotherScott's recommendation was a good one, but since you're not into semi-weighted the next compromise/solution could be the GHS. Now you know about the P125, you can try it for yourself.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

I have nothing of value to add to this discussion, I just wanted to let the OP know that I'm a big fan of their handle.

 

Never heard her voice, never seen her smile, but I'm in love with Saskia Hamilton. :grin:

 

[video:youtube]

[CEB]

Everything is subjective. They are all probably good enough in terms of action and sound.

 

Less subjective is how many different sound setups do you need to call live and how fast do you need to call them and how do you want to handle patch management in a live situation. Yamaha Live Sets are less powerful than Korg SetLists but still really good. If you need to call 12 or fewer sounds a night it won't matter. If you use multiple performance setups in a single song then it becomes a big deal. Of the choices listed I would take the MODX just for sound management possibilities whether I need it NOW or not because I don't know who may call next. It could be a Vangelis tribute act.

[ElmerJFudd]

Got to play the Casio PX-S1000 today. It's light, it's priced well, it's slim, it's sleek looking, key texture is nice, acoustic piano is quite decent, internal speakers are pretty good, runs on batteries, great. The hall effect widens the stereo field for the player significantly and I thought that was pretty cool. The user interface was not immediately intuitive. Had to fiddle a bit to figure out you need to use the keys to input a value - not great for changing sounds and making adjustments on the fly. Speaking on the S1000's action, the key path has reduced "wobbliness" from the previous Casio action. Key movement is free and fast. However, whatever they had to change to make the action fit in this slim case weakens being able to trigger strong dynamic levels close to the fall board. I'd say the last 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch at the back of the keys are where it is weakest. Previous models were better in this regard. Personally I hope they keep the other improvements but don't go with this exact design on the $1k+ Casio models like the PX-5S/560. The GHS action on the MODX8 does not exhibit this, certainly not to the same extent, and for this reason alone I'd prefer to play piano parts on the MODX8.

 

But it's not fair to compare these two keyboards (MODX8 and PX-S3000 as they aren't even close in price or capabilities. If you need to have something really slim and light around the house to grab and go, that's the only reason I can think to even consider a PX-Sxxx. From $800 for the PX-S3000 to $1199 for the PX-560. I'd take the 560 (S3000 weighs in at 24.7lbs vs. 26lbs on the 560).

[SaskiaHamilton]

samuelblupowitz - glad someone enjoys the reference, my real name is a lot less euphonious!

 

drawback - that's a really useful comparison, your description of the KeyLab 88 is spot on - flubby is the right word for the action

 

Found a deal for a MODX88 which is only a couple of hundred more than the Casio - so starting to seem like the one board option really is a no brainer

 

 

 

 

[jimkost2002]

So frustrating that no-one in the vicinity stocks the MODX8 (plenty of 6/7) to get the comparison. I am by no means a great player so am not sure how much better one keybed will be than the other to me. Soundwise I thought MODX had the edge on most of the instruments

 

 

There are many other Yamaha boards with this keybed action (GHS) - MOXF8, P125, P45, etc. One of them should be in the store to try.

 

 

I had a P 125 on loan, it is NOT the same keybed as MODX8.

 

The P 45 (entry level weightedDP) is the same keybed as MODX8.

 

Had Yamaha used the P125 keybed on the MODX8, it would have been an infinitely better experience and I would have probably kept mine then!

[AnotherScott]

There are many other Yamaha boards with this keybed action (GHS) - MOXF8, P125, P45, etc. One of them should be in the store to try.

I had a P 125 on loan, it is NOT the same keybed as MODX8.

 

The P 45 (entry level weightedDP) is the same keybed as MODX8.

 

Had Yamaha used the P125 keybed on the MODX8, it would have been an infinitely better experience and I would have probably kept mine then!

And here we're back to the issue that not every GHS action necessarily feels the same. There have been some changes over time (it's at least obvious that GHS black keys shifted from glossy to matte, and we really don't know what other under-the-hood tweaks they could have have made over the years), but this is an example where even contemporaneous models feel different, something I noticed myself comparing a MODX8 with a DGX660 that were on display in the same store. Is it that the same action can feel different in a different chassis? Do they have unit-to-unit variation, perhaps a consequence of sourcing some components from multiple suppliers whose pieces may may both meet spec but not feel completely identical? Was it a consequence of the MODX8 being brand new and the DGX660 having been on the floor for a while and having been played a lot? I don't think it's that one, because if actions really felt very different over time, I'd expect my own keyboards to start feeling different toward the center where they are played a lot compared to the extremes where they are played less frequently... but maybe they do and the gradual change becomes unnoticeable, or maybe it's that my boards don't get as much constant playing as floor models. I thought it might be the presence of speakers or different velocity curves, but at least in this case, I think I ruled that out by comparing the two with the sound off, and they still felt different to me. but it's hard to be sure, as you can be fooled by your expectations, too. Do all DGX660 feel like the DGX660 I played, and do all MODX8 feel like the MODX8 I played, or can different units/runs of a MODX8 feel as different from each other as that MODX8 felt from that DGX660? It's a mystery. If anyone is friendly with any Yamaha techs, one clue could be whether the action-related replacement parts for the MODX8 and DGX660 are identical or if they have different part numbers. But even that would only address one piece of the puzzle.

[SaskiaHamilton]

FWIW - went for the MODX in the end. Early days but think am going to love it . Keybed-wise it certainly wouldn't be for everyone. I wouldn't want to be doing a huge amount of classical/cocktail hour stuff on it, but given the amount of sounds on the machine it works "pretty good" for all so far, which is by no mean task, if not necessarily amazing for any one instrument. However my early thoughts are that everything else it offers mean theres some exceptionally awesome stuff on this board which makes adapting to any playing shortcomings very much worthwhile.

 

Thanks again for everyones input - I can see myself potentially buying a more specific DP if a good deal comes up, but I think 80% of my time will still be spent with the MODX

[jimkost2002]

There are many other Yamaha boards with this keybed action (GHS) - MOXF8, P125, P45, etc. One of them should be in the store to try.

I had a P 125 on loan, it is NOT the same keybed as MODX8.

 

The P 45 (entry level weightedDP) is the same keybed as MODX8.

 

Had Yamaha used the P125 keybed on the MODX8, it would have been an infinitely better experience and I would have probably kept mine then!

And here we're back to the issue that not every GHS action necessarily feels the same. There have been some changes over time (it's at least obvious that GHS black keys shifted from glossy to matte, and we really don't know what other under-the-hood tweaks they could have have made over the years), but this is an example where even contemporaneous models feel different, something I noticed myself comparing a MODX8 with a DGX660 that were on display in the same store. Is it that the same action can feel different in a different chassis? Do they have unit-to-unit variation, perhaps a consequence of sourcing some components from multiple suppliers whose pieces may may both meet spec but not feel completely identical? Was it a consequence of the MODX8 being brand new and the DGX660 having been on the floor for a while and having been played a lot? I don't think it's that one, because if actions really felt very different over time, I'd expect my own keyboards to start feeling different toward the center where they are played a lot compared to the extremes where they are played less frequently... but maybe they do and the gradual change becomes unnoticeable, or maybe it's that my boards don't get as much constant playing as floor models. I thought it might be the presence of speakers or different velocity curves, but at least in this case, I think I ruled that out by comparing the two with the sound off, and they still felt different to me. but it's hard to be sure, as you can be fooled by your expectations, too. Do all DGX660 feel like the DGX660 I played, and do all MODX8 feel like the MODX8 I played, or can different units/runs of a MODX8 feel as different from each other as that MODX8 felt from that DGX660? It's a mystery. If anyone is friendly with any Yamaha techs, one clue could be whether the action-related replacement parts for the MODX8 and DGX660 are identical or if they have different part numbers. But even that would only address one piece of the puzzle.

 

 

 

The MODX8 is the same action as the P 95

( I believe that is correct model number of the current Yamaha entry level weighted action DP)

 

Had Yamaha decided to use the P125, I might still have my MODX8â but, that is still speculation that the MODX8 housing would adequately support the action.

 

[peplum]

Hello,

I once went to a store to try the modx8 and many of the keys were already out of order. I've already read some bad comments about the keyboard aging. Who's gonna send back this kind of keybed to be repaired after tha warranty period ?

I who used to use a PX-S3000, I found the keyboard worse and this is very unfortunate. Unfortunately montage 8 is too much expensive. Too bad that Yamaha has put a keyboard that is quite low end while the modx engine is really good and versatile. Has anyone had problems with aging since time?

Personally, I am tempted to take one more modx6 but goodbye versatility even at home. I don't gig at all.

I's quite easy to find a used modx8 as the same price of a new PX-S3000 (very difficult to find used) so the prices for me are almost equivalent.

Regards

[miden]

Drawback - I see you have a Keylab 88, as do I - how does the Keybed on the MODX8 (am assuming you've tried one) compare?

 

It's noticeably lighter than a Fatar TP100/LR (I wish I knew what LR stands for.... like, for those who use both hands at the same time? ) which is in my former SL88 Studio controller and my new Keylab MKii 88. I don't know if Arturia has its own adjustments ordered for their keyboards, but I find the new Keylab to be more assertive-feeling, less bouncy/flubby than the SL88 and the original Keylab 88.

 

I've played on the GHS action at a retailer. Can't recall whether it was a MODX8, but for sure on a DGX-660. For multi-use keybed, I felt that it would suit me because it covers a lot of middle ground. I played for years on a one-board NordStage2 SW73. I got used to the compromise for piano (in a band context) and AnotherScott's recommendation was a good one, but since you're not into semi-weighted the next compromise/solution could be the GHS. Now you know about the P125, you can try it for yourself.

 

But the Keylab only transmits on two channels, it did with the one I had, so unless that's changed? It's a big deal breaker, well it was for me anyway.

[MotiDave]

FWIW - I have MODX7, and I love it. I"ll bang out AP songs in a rock band setting but as all AP players know, you can"t get nuanced expression from any unweighted keybed. Works for my rock situations good enough and is the righttrade off for the much more synth type work i do. I HATE playing synth or organ tones on a weighted bed.

 

Anyway - I tried out an MODX8 in the store while waiting for my pal who worked there to break free to hook me up on the 7. I didn"t like it at all - not sure how much was just me used to a semi/un weighted synth for 7 yrs vs the actual MODX8 board but it was like running in thick mud. I thought its as mostly the board and not me. Slow unresponsive heavy ... blech.

 

MODX7 isn"t the end all be all. I do some travel gigs so I want a board+case < 50 lbs and case <62' or its $150 extra out of my pocket plus a total schlep thru airports, hotels, etc. I don"t trust backline companies anymore and I never learned to program MS to get the exact signature sounds i need. For a light weight all-in-one board, its the perfect tool for my job. I got it for $1200 - thats an absurd amount of synth power in a 16 lb box. All the many limitations are known, i just don"t worry bout what its not and I focus on what it is. Ymmv.

[timwat]

Unfortunately, your real answer is....get a Montage 8.

 

Great palette of sounds, very nice key bed for piano. And it weighs 64 pounds.

 

In real life for gigs, I have tried to keep in mind the years of doing "house piano" gigs as a sobering reference.

 

So in that context, the PX3000 is really nice. The MODX8 is much less nice, but better than a house upright with broken keys and a non-functional sustain pedal.