16" MBP

[Steve Nathan]

I'm about to drop 4 grand on fully tricked out 15" MBP, when I see rumors of a 16" new model expected later this year.

I know there are one or two members here with umbilical cords attached to all things Apple. Anyone know anything (other than it's got a bigger screen)?

[ElmerJFudd]

Hey, Steve. The cycle is endless, the next model is always going to be just around the corner.

For our purposes (live playing and recording as opposed to 4k or more video editing) the last few generations have already delivered ample performance. At the $4k mark we"ll assume you"re getting the Core i9 processor, probably 16gb of RAM, and an SSD drive or two. That"s the 2019 Model, it"s very current. You can always wait for the next one when you could have been making music with the current one already. Enjoy!

[nursers]

What Elmer said. For live work the 15" screen is plenty big enough. The big thing for me is having the SSD drive, would never go back to the optical drives.

 

[MPN21]

... At the $4k mark we"ll assume you"re getting the Core i9 processor, probably 16gb of RAM, and an SSD drive or two...

Only 16 gb of RAM for $4K? That's an Apple all right. I have a Macbook Pro (I have it because it was given to me. The only Apple stuff I buy is iPads), but I am a long time Windows user. I am not familiar with Apple computers. For $4k, what about a Mac MINI?

 

[o0Ampy0o]

A $4000 tricked out 15" MBP could have 32GB RAM.

 

There are various areas you can emphasize (i.e. graphics, RAM, CPU) you do have the option to get as much as 32GB RAM.

 

15" MBP

 

[Marzzz]

Supposedly a big step up, supposedly coming in October. They just refreshed the 15' MBPs, so this should be interesting...

[slowtraveler]

Anyone know anything (other than it's got a bigger screen)?

 

At this point it's still speculation rather than knowledge, but Ming-Chi Kuo (a respected industry analyst with a track record of making accurate though not infallible calls about Apple product announcements) believes a new 16" MBP will launch during Q4 of this year, featuring a new scissor keyboard mechanism to replace the much-criticized butterfly keyboard Apple has been using for the last couple of years:

 

https://www.macrumors.com/2019/07/25/kuo-16-inch-macbook-pro-scissor-keyboard/

 

Based on this information, I myself would consider putting off the purchase of a new MBP for a couple of months. There's been lot of discussion about mechanical failures caused by dust and debris getting into Apple's current keyboards, but these concerns aside, I just don't like the feel of the butterfly keyboard and would be glad to have the chance of a better one. It's a highly subjective thing, though. I know people who have no problem with (and even like) the butterfly keyboards.

 

 

[Synthoid]

I myself would consider putting off the purchase of a new MBP for a couple of months. There's been lot of discussion about mechanical failures caused by dust and debris getting into Apple's current keyboards... I just don't like the feel of the butterfly keyboard

 

This.

 

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

There has been a lot of chatter about the butterfly keyboards. Apple addressed the issue in the 2018 model by modifying the design of the keyboard. But it hasn't been out long enough to say if it is fixed.

Here is more on this issue: https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/05/25/tested-apples-updated-2019-macbook-pro-butterfly-keyboard

 

[video:youtube]

 

If there is no rush, then it doesn't hurt to wait through Q4 to see if this rumored update is happening. Of course no way to know if Apple is changing the design of the keyboard again.

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Add me to the group that, IF you have something that presently does the job for you, wait until the product announcement. My MBP is a 2011 15" with quad i7, 16G RAM, 1TB SSD - very fast machine. I deliberately sought out something that I could modify myself. As I get older screen size is more important (though I have a 12" screen HP Windows notebook for service calls - max portability). I really was looking for a quad i7 in the former 17" size, but ran into the 15" one that had just had video (and mainboard) replaced under warranty by Apple, and they had also changed out the magsafe (power) board and the battery while they had the unit - so I got an almost new machine at a used price. Yes - they are more expensive than typical equivalent power PC, but I look at computers as tools, and buying the best tool for the particular job is something that was ingrained in me from childhood (my maternal grandfather was a head mechanic, and my father worked in auto parts supply). I also tend to keep what I buy longer than the average person.

 

Sometimes I do need maximum portability (but then I have to make sure to have my pocket magnifying glass with me). Other times, I want larger screen real estate. Both my primary PC and the MBP are connected to a 32" HDTV when at home.

[Marzzz]

MacRumors is n ow reporting a possible September launch; usually Apple introduces new computers in October. I agree if you can wait another 8 weeks or so it may be advantageous.

[Reezekeys]

There's a lot of nostalgia for the old 17" machine Apple killed. This thread got me motivated to do a quick search and I found a 17" refurb for $850. A 2011 vintage that actually compares favorably specs-wise with my late-2013 MBP (2.2Ghz quad-core i7, only 4GB ram but upgradeable, a spinning 750GB drive, again upgradeable with a now-cheap 2.5" SSD). As worthwhile as it seems I can't see anyone wanting a 2011 Mac unless they absolutely need to see stuff bigger on the screen - its 1920 x 1200 resolution is still better than my retina's 1440 x 900 pixel-doubled rez and everything would be bigger too, though I might miss the retina's crystal-clear look â my daughter's old Mac Air display's pixels jump out at me whenever I look at it!

 

My .02 - there's always going to be the next model with better specs or new features but a new 16" might be worth waiting for if you felt the 15 was tough on your eyes. I would guess that it's not gonna be as dramatic a diff as going from a 15 to a 17 though. A bezel-less 16 would probably be the size of a current 15 so that's pretty cool, but will that extra single inch make that much of a difference? And you'd probably want to order it maxxed with ram and SSD size, since neither are upgradeable anymore.

[drawback]

Interesting dilemma. I freelanced for many years on a Mid-2010 MBP 13" and later on I maxed out RAM and put in an SSD. For me, 13" was so portable and powerful. I still like the form factor.

 

Now I'm working on a Late 2016 iMac 21". I don't believe in large internal hard drives. I'd sooner spend the extra money on processing and RAM. I like the iMac but I really miss the versatility of a MBP. So with that in mind, and if I were at the end-stage of the desktop I'd go back to a laptop, and I'd very likely wait for the 16" MBP as a best-of-worlds between the 13 and the 21. Spend every extra dollar I could on processing & RAM.

 

 

[Steve Nathan]

So it is max speed, max turbo boost processor, 32gig & 2TB internal SSD.

Ram and drives can"t be added to after the fact.

I"m also getting a new UAD interface/OCTO processor plugs host.

I"m hoping to be ready for whatever comes calling in the next decade.

[slowtraveler]

Moar details from the rumor mill:

 

https://www.macworld.com/article/3411979/16-inch-macbook-pro-display-keyboard-specs-release.html

 

 

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

So it is max speed, max turbo boost processor, 32gig & 2TB internal SSD.

Ram and drives can"t be added to after the fact.

I"m also getting a new UAD interface/OCTO processor plugs host.

I"m hoping to be ready for whatever comes calling in the next decade.

 

Yeah. You take care of this machine it"s going to serve you for a bunch of years.

As we all have learned. No rush to upgrade the OS. When you have it all up and running leave it alone.

 

You"re call. You can see what they"ve improved on the rumored 16' or be aware that there"s a question if the butterfly silicon fix on the 2019 is doing the job. Get the Apple Care and they will take care of you.

 

 

[Marzzz]

The cycle is endless, the next model is always going to be just around the corner.

This is of course an axiom of computer purchasing. But if you somehow know Apple is about to make a large leap forward, it is worth waiting. The last big update was October 2016, this one is coming a bit early. I usually upgrade my laptop when they do major revision.

 

Question- is 32 GB RAM useful for music apps?

[Reezekeys]

Question- is 32 GB RAM useful for music apps?

My .02 since I've been laptopping since a Titanium PowerBook G4 in 2001.... more ram is never a bad thing, but one could easily overestimate how much is actually needed to do what we do. For making music on a stage or recording session, sample-streaming VIs need disk space, not necessarily ram. Synth plugins that don't use samples mostly need processor juice. And I think it's obvious (to me anyway!) that you're not on a stage or at a session with your music rig going and suddenly start editing on Final Cut or open 20 browser tabs.

 

Having said this â we all know that ram and disk space in new Macs are non-upgradeable. We also can't predict the future as far as new software that may suddenly need gobs 'o ram to work. IMO if you have the money to spend and want a computer to last you a long time, more is probably better. In my case, the phrase "if you have the money to spend" is key. Maybe not so much for other folks here!

[Geoff Grace]

The cycle is endless, the next model is always going to be just around the corner.

This is of course an axiom of computer purchasing. But if you somehow know Apple is about to make a large leap forward, it is worth waiting. The last big update was October 2016, this one is coming a bit early. I usually upgrade my laptop when they do major revision.

 

Question- is 32 GB RAM useful for music apps?

The answer is that it depends on what you're trying to do. For most gigging keyboard setups, 32 GB should be more than enough. If you're creating orchestral mockups, however, 32 GB RAM is the bare minimum you'd need, unless you plan to work with disabled tracks. Personally, I'm waiting for a 64 GB MacBook Pro (which possibly could be right around the corner) before upgrading my laptop.

 

You may find this thread to be useful:

 

What does 32 gigs of RAM allow for samples?

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[EscapeRocks]

There's a lot of nostalgia for the old 17" machine Apple killed. This thread got me motivated to do a quick search and I found a 17" refurb for $850. A 2011 vintage that actually compares favorably specs-wise with my late-2013 MBP (2.2Ghz quad-core i7, only 4GB ram but upgradeable, a spinning 750GB drive, again upgradeable with a now-cheap 2.5" SSD).

 

As you and I have discussed before, this is exactly what I did. Two years ago I bought an Apple Certified Refurb 2012 13"MBP for $550.

I already owned a nice Samsung EVO 500gb SSD so I swapped that in, then bought another one and used the adapter kit to put in in the superdrive bay.

I then maxed out the RAM at 16gb. My local computer store had a sale on the SSD so I picked it up for $85. The 16gb ram cost me $70.

 

For @$700 I have a great gigging machine that runs Mainstage or Gig performer flawlessly with Kontakt, PianoTeq, Arturia, and Syntronik. All my libraries reside inside, so no more external drives.

Music is the ONLY thing I run on this machine. I still have my old anemic late 2013 13" Retina with 4gb ram, and 128gb SSD for daily use.

[dongna]

I did a similar thing a couple of years ago-- bought a 2012 Mac Mini. These were the last models that were upgradable. Came with an i7 processor... I swapped in an SSD drive and replaced the stock 4GB with 16GB. Runs blazingly fast now for anything music-related I throw at it (actually, -anything- I throw at it).

[Reezekeys]

Yes, after all the lusting for the latest & greatest, fastest, most ram, biggest SSD, etc etc... it turns out most music rigs don't need all that! 13 years ago I was doing gigs with a Powerbook G4, using a firewire 400 external drive for samples. It might have had 2GB of ram. My basic setup hasn't changed all that much in terms of # of plugins or even the ones I use, though I have gotten the buffer setting down to 128 in my current machine. The point is that things worked fine then and they work fine now, with my late-2013 MacBook Pro that I just put a 1TB SSD into. Milk 'em for all they're worth, I say â there is no more upgrading of anything on the new Macs â and I'm too lazy to switch platforms! I'll be on this 6-year old computer until it dies, I think.

[zephonic]

Yes, after all the lusting for the latest & greatest, fastest, most ram, biggest SSD, etc etc... it turns out most music rigs don't need all that! 13 years ago I was doing gigs with a Powerbook G4, using a firewire 400 external drive for samples. It might have had 2GB of ram. My basic setup hasn't changed all that much in terms of # of plugins or even the ones I use, though I have gotten the buffer setting down to 128 in my current machine. The point is that things worked fine then and they work fine now, with my late-2013 MacBook Pro that I just put a 1TB SSD into. Milk 'em for all they're worth, I say â there is no more upgrading of anything on the new Macs â and I'm too lazy to switch platforms! I'll be on this 6-year old computer until it dies, I think.

 

 

I don't know about that. My 6-core MacPro could handle everything I threw at it until Keyscape. Some of the latest Spectrasonics patches cause audible artifacts when I play more than one note at a time. Some of the newer algorithmic reverbs heavily tax the system as well.

 

A fairly typical use case for me is an instance of Omnisphere with two of the latest patches, an instance of H-verb, a few instances of Neutron, Waves API2500 on the buss, and my computer starts to huff and puff to the point where I need to freeze tracks. And that's a modest project, many have two instances of Omnisphere, more than one reverb, a whole lot of Neutron etc. not to mention VariAudio etc.

 

I haven't tried it myself, but people say deep softsynths like Diva can also bring a reasonably modern computer to its knees. Developers are always gonna find a way to utilize more processing power.

 

That said, if you're basically running Kontakt and a few other older VI's and plugins, you won't need the latest and greatest computer. My 2015 MBP runs GP with Omnisphere, Kontakt, UVI and AIR just fine, as long as I stay away from the newer Spectrasonics patches.

 

 

[Synthoid]

Runs blazingly fast now for anything music-related I throw at it (actually, -anything- I throw at it).

 

http://laptopinthebox.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/macbook_pro_broken_glass.jpg

 

 

[Marzzz]

Ouch!!

[PianoMan51]

Runs blazingly fast now for anything music-related I throw at it (actually, -anything- I throw at it).

 

http://laptopinthebox.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/macbook_pro_broken_glass.jpg

 

I know what broke the screen...

[video:youtube]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=axSnW-ygU5g

[Steve Nathan]

New wrinkle to the decision (it's always something!).

Without getting "political", new tariffs announced for September 1 will make the 16" even more expensive than is already expected.

[ElmerJFudd]

Hmmm, I"m not sure how that"s playing out.

Pricing out your high end processor and the 32gb and 2tb HD is $3999.99 today before tax.

[Iconoclast]

Yes, after all the lusting for the latest & greatest, fastest, most ram, biggest SSD, etc etc... it turns out most music rigs don't need all that! 13 years ago I was doing gigs with a Powerbook G4, using a firewire 400 external drive for samples. It might have had 2GB of ram. My basic setup hasn't changed all that much in terms of # of plugins or even the ones I use, though I have gotten the buffer setting down to 128 in my current machine. The point is that things worked fine then and they work fine now, with my late-2013 MacBook Pro that I just put a 1TB SSD into. Milk 'em for all they're worth, I say â there is no more upgrading of anything on the new Macs â and I'm too lazy to switch platforms! I'll be on this 6-year old computer until it dies, I think.

 

 

I don't know about that. My 6-core MacPro could handle everything I threw at it until Keyscape. Some of the latest Spectrasonics patches cause audible artifacts when I play more than one note at a time. Some of the newer algorithmic reverbs heavily tax the system as well.

 

A fairly typical use case for me is an instance of Omnisphere with two of the latest patches, an instance of H-verb, a few instances of Neutron, Waves API2500 on the buss, and my computer starts to huff and puff to the point where I need to freeze tracks. And that's a modest project, many have two instances of Omnisphere, more than one reverb, a whole lot of Neutron etc. not to mention VariAudio etc.

 

I haven't tried it myself, but people say deep softsynths like Diva can also bring a reasonably modern computer to its knees. Developers are always gonna find a way to utilize more processing power.

 

That said, if you're basically running Kontakt and a few other older VI's and plugins, you won't need the latest and greatest computer. My 2015 MBP runs GP with Omnisphere, Kontakt, UVI and AIR just fine, as long as I stay away from the newer Spectrasonics patches.

Don't forget that the smaller 13 inch MBP does not have a full up graphics card. It has "integrated graphics". I had huge problems with Keyscape, Arturia Piano, Arturia DX7, and Arturia Pigments. Then I upgraded to a new 15 inch and it just cruises using all of those programs. Literally all of my problems disappeared. Both computers had SSD's and maxed out RAM and the best chip you could get at the time, the real big difference is the 15 inch has a dedicated graphics card freeing up the chip. I have written a couple of threads about this subject and a lot of smarter people than me commented on computer requirements.

[TommyRude]

I say get the 15" now. The clock is ticking, no time to waste, get that thing and make some great music with it. Any incremental mojo the 16" might have is probably negligible and likely greatly outweighed by the time you would lose waiting. Get that thing, it's state of the art!