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My CP88 experience so far


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So after much hand wringing and back and forth, I finally received delivery of a Yamaha CP 88 this past Thursday.

 

(For the record, my test were done thru a pair of QSC K 8.2s thru a Radial Key Largo. For headphone testing I used a pair of AKG K-712 cans.)

 

 

All I can say so far, is for APs, EPs and as a controller, there is NOTHING on the market that matches it.

 

 

That may seem like hyperbole, but I am prepared to back it up, especially since I have played or owned practically EVERY available (or discontinued) Stage Keyboard/Piano or Workstation.

 

First, a general assessment of the Yamaha"s fitness in the AP/EP/Controller category. As I stated above, there"s NOTHING which currently matches OR even comes close.

 

I say this because the combination of the the APs (namely CFX, Bosie and U1), EPs (Rhodes, Wurlis) and Clav and the Yamaha keybed is truly organic and absolutely flawless.

 

The action is THE MOST RESPONSIVE that I have played on an instrument of this class. (Stage Piano/Controller).

(I am eliminating the P515, CP1, V-Piano and Avant Grand as these instruments do not, imo, fall in the same class)

 

This action coupled with ANY AP/EP sounds available on the CP is so incredibly precise, that, thru my practice so far I have been shown flaws and holes in my playing that I haven't seen on ANY other keyboard in its class. So, I"ve got much more work ahead of me and I thank the designers of this great instrument for helping me find them!

 

There are many who don"t care for Yamaha"s pianos, but, hey, if it was Sviatoslav Richter"s instrument of choice in his later years, that"s good enough for me!

 

First of all build quality is top notch. Solid chassis, great switches and buttons, compact form factor for an 88 note stage piano, its only rival on that front being NP4. And it has pitch and mod controls that the NP4 lacks (Although the NP Transmits those messages!)

 

I"ll next assess the Yamaha in comparison with other instruments, I have owned or loaned in the past 18 months.

 

Korg Kronos- While the sounds on the Kronos may be initially more 'appealing' and 'colorful', perhaps almost cinematic in their scope, namely pianos and eps, if you strip away effects and eq-ing, the pianos and EPs don"t hold up to the Yamaha in their raw state. Plus, the Kronos RH3, while being the best of all Korg weighted actions, is still sorely lacking when sharp, rhythmic playing is needed. YES, IT IS SLUGGISH! I did side by side examples of shout choruses on both instruments and the CP ate the Kronos for breakfast.

Also, in regards to the RH3, please remember that, as with all actions, it"s not just the action mechanism itself, but also (just as crucially) what that action is housed or sits IN!

 

Nord Stage/NP4-Again, I"m speaking mainly of pianos and controller functions here. While not as blatant a difference as that between the Kronos and the Yamaha, it"s still miles apart. There"s something organic and satisfying about the way the Yamaha action and piano sounds work together that, in retrospect, was ALWAYS lacking on the Nords. Again, the Nord APs and EPs have lots of color, but there is a 'hard stop' at the end, or closer to the end, of the samples on the NORD that always bothered me and I constantly made excuses for it, but I would always turn to my VV for most of my practicing when I owned Nords.

 

Roland RD 2000- Great action, ultimately uninspiring APs, great EPs, great controller, way too heavy and bulky to gig with.

 

Kurweil Forte 7- Great action, but I've never really connected with Kurz APs/EPs, no matter how hard I tried. Excellent controller.

 

Overall, I"ll say again that you don't need 10 or 15 different APs and EPs, just a couple and a good onboard EQ.

 

The APs and EPs have to start with something that has a good, strong fundamental, and THAT is where Yamaha is unbeatable and THAT is why I like them.

 

These days, I look at all Modern Stage Pianos as fake APs, Fake Rhodes, Fake Wurlies, Fake Clavs.

 

The question is: who gets closest to a satisfying, organic emulation of these timeless instruments?

 

They have really taken the best points of Nord in the design and made it their own.

 

For those of you bitching about the quality of the sub sounds, ITS A STAGE PIANO! NOT a stage KEYBOARD!

 

'Sub' means subservient!

 

But, perhaps Yamaha will update the 'Sub' sounds in a further update!

 

Anyway, that"s it for now...gotta practice!

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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So after much hand wringing and back and forth, I finally received delivery of a Yamaha CP 88 this past Thursday.

 

(For the record, my test were done thru a pair of QSC K 8.2s thru a Radial Key Largo. For headphone testing I used a pair of AKG K-712 cans.)

 

 

All I can say so far, is for APs, EPs and as a controller, there is NOTHING on the market that matches it.

 

...

 

The action is THE MOST RESPONSIVE that I have played on an instrument of this class. (Stage Piano/Controller).

 

...

 

First of all build quality is top notch. Solid chassis, great switches and buttons, compact form factor for an 88 note stage piano, its only rival on that front being NP4. And it has pitch and mod controls that the NP4 lacks (Although the NP Transmits those messages!)

 

...

 

These days, I look at all Modern Stage Pianos as fake APs, Fake Rhodes, Fake Wurlies, Fake Clavs.

 

The question is: who gets closest to a satisfying, organic emulation of these timeless instruments?

 

They have really taken the best points of Nord in the design and made it their own.

 

For those of you bitching about the quality of the sub sounds, ITS A STAGE PIANO! NOT a stage KEYBOARD!

 

'Sub' means subservient!

 

But, perhaps Yamaha will update the 'Sub' sounds in a further update!

 

 

Thanks a lot for this report !

The CP is on top of my list, but up to now I was unable to decide which,- 73 or 88.

The portability vs better and wider range action syndrome, you know.

 

I dunno IIRC, but wasn´t it, when the CP73/88 was announced, Yamaha mentioned future updates also in regards of (additional) soundware ?

 

 

A.C.

 

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It's good to have a thorough review like that from someone who has put their hands on everything. I've been very happy with my CP73 even though the action is a big step down from the 88. But the finger to sound connection is superb and inspiring, and the combination of portability and action makes it a winner for me. If I could afford the extravagance, I'd have a CP88 set up at home and keep the 73 ready to go in its gig case.

 

Curious though why you put the P515 in a different category.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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Adan, I consider the P515 to be more of a 'home' unit than a stage piano.

Yamaha separates the 'P' series into a different category and so do I.

I will say the P515 action is even more premium than the CP88"s.

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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Adan, I consider the P515 to be more of a 'home' unit than a stage piano.

Yamaha separates the 'P' series into a different category and so do I.

I will say the P515 action is even more premium than the CP88"s.

 

Well done review, Jim. I"ve played the CP88 and P515 side by side and really think the action in both are the best I"ve played on a DP. I think the difference in feel may be in the connection perceived with having the on-board speakers. Could be wrong, but I think the actions are identical.

 

Enjoy!

____________________________________
Rod

Here for the gear.

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Al, you are correct.

Yamaha is making OS updates with new instruments once per quarter.

So far, the instrument updates have only been pianos, to my knowledge.

As far as the difference in action between the 73 & 88, I can say its a 'night and day' difference.

I, too, considered the 73 for quite some time, but when I REALLY sat down at the 88, my decision was made!

I loved playing the Stage and Suitcase 88s with those extra bass notes, and you can REALLY get that on the CP88 with the Rhodes"....

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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CP88 action is excellent. No doubt about it. Might be the best Yamaha has put in a portable slab.

And it pairs very nicely with the AP and EP sections they"ve included. Oh how I wish it had more sounds from the Montage in the last section. But at least it"s a good controller.

 

I found the RD-2000 sluggish in comparison.

The Kawai ES8 is also excellent, I"ve not ever sat at the MP7SE. The MP11SE isn"t very portable.

Haven"t played the Nord Grand, but it"s also big for gigging.

Haven"t played the NP4 (but I have played the Stage 3 - sounds great. Action is fast, but not as piano-like as the CP). Need to play a Forte 8 as well.

 

 

 

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Adan, I consider the P515 to be more of a 'home' unit than a stage piano.

Yamaha separates the 'P' series into a different category and so do I.

I will say the P515 action is even more premium than the CP88"s.

 

Well done review, Jim. I"ve played the CP88 and P515 side by side and really think the action in both are the best I"ve played on a DP. I think the difference in feel may be in the connection perceived with having the on-board speakers. Could be wrong, but I think the actions are identical.

 

Enjoy!

 

Hi Rod, according to Yamaha, the actions are different.

The P515 has the 'NWX' â natural wood with escapementâ- action.

 

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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CP88 action is excellent. No doubt about it. Might be the best Yamaha has put in a portable slab.

And it pairs very nicely with the AP and EP sections they"ve included. Oh how I wish it had more sounds from the Montage in the last section. But at least it"s a good controller.

 

I found the RD-2000 sluggish in comparison.

The Kawai ES8 is also excellent, I"ve not ever sat at the MP7SE. The MP11SE isn"t very portable.

Haven"t played the Nord Grand, but it"s also big for gigging.

Haven"t played the NP4 or Forte8.

 

 

 

Elmer, I, too, wish they"d put some Montage sounds in the 'sub' section..... maybe in an OS update?

 

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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CP88 action is excellent. No doubt about it. Might be the best Yamaha has put in a portable slab.

And it pairs very nicely with the AP and EP sections they"ve included. Oh how I wish it had more sounds from the Montage in the last section. But at least it"s a good controller.

 

I found the RD-2000 sluggish in comparison.

The Kawai ES8 is also excellent, I"ve not ever sat at the MP7SE. The MP11SE isn"t very portable.

Haven"t played the Nord Grand, but it"s also big for gigging.

Haven"t played the NP4 or Forte8.

 

 

 

Elmer, I, too, wish they"d put some Montage sounds in the 'sub' section..... maybe in an OS update?

The lack of extra sounds (and I need a lot of them) was the only thing that prevented me from walking out of Sweetwater with one. Along with the Nord Stage, I thought it was the coolest keyboard in the room.

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

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I, too, wish they"d put some Montage sounds in the 'sub' section..... maybe in an OS update?

 

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/cp88_73/update.html#product-tabs

 

 

The second content pack is CP OS v1.2 and is scheduled to be released in September, 2019

 

we will just have to wait and see. :drool:

:nopity:
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Congrats on the CP88.

 

Too many actions, too many choices. FWIW, i liked the action on the Montage 8 but did not like the action on the CLP645 (NWX action ala P-515). I think it also has a lot to do with the sound-to-action immersive experience hence i enjoyed the CFX piano on the montage much more than i did with the CLP 645.

 

It's the whole package, if you found the one (which you did): Jackpot.

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I, too, wish they"d put some Montage sounds in the 'sub' section..... maybe in an OS update?

 

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/music_production/synthesizers/cp88_73/update.html#product-tabs

 

 

The second content pack is CP OS v1.2 and is scheduled to be released in September, 2019

 

we will just have to wait and see. :drool:

Good news, thanks for posting Dave! My hope is that the available memory is such that a fair number of new sounds can be added to the existing sounds instead of replacing them (or a means to upgrade memory capacity).

 

Also, does anyone know if the sounds in each category (Piano, E. Piano, Sub) are all accessible via MIDI, or is it only the sound that is selected via the dial in each section?

 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

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Thanks for the review Jim ! The CP88 sounds nice, I haven't bought a keyboard since May of '14. Just not sure I'd have a lot of use for it as I'm not gigging that much anymore. I turn down most calls and the others I do take there's either a piano or a keyboard there already.

 

Literally at the point of total retirement from live playing. I get more fulfillment just practicing 2 to 3 hours on my piano everyday.

 

 

You"re welcome, Dave, I ALWAYS appreciate your perspective! If you"re thinking of making the transition away from live playing, then the CP may not be for you....

 

Do you have the 515? Somewhere in your posts, I thought you said you have it(?) If you do, then you won"t need the CP

 

 

 

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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Congrats on the CP88.

 

Too many actions, too many choices. FWIW, i liked the action on the Montage 8 but did not like the action on the CLP645 (NWX action ala P-515). I think it also has a lot to do with the sound-to-action immersive experience hence i enjoyed the CFX piano on the montage much more than i did with the CLP 645.

 

It's the whole package, if you found the one (which you did): Jackpot.

 

 

Very interesting, keepitsimple. I, too, enjoy the CFX pianos on the Montage8 also. I didn't know that the CLP645 had the same NWX action as the P515. I, however, do not share your dislike. Quite the contrary....

 

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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I couldn"t find this so far: Can you insert a new entry between two existing entries in the CP88 live set? One frustration for me on cp4 is that I have to store a bunch of duplicate performances to make sure I don"t erase my work when rearranging a set list.

Barry

 

Home: Steinway L, Montage 8

 

Gigs: Yamaha CP88, Crumar Mojo 61, A&H SQ5 mixer, ME1 IEM, MiPro 909 IEMs

 

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Damnit I want one. I absolutely loved it when I got to play it at NAMM. Then I saw mixed feelings about it on here and kind of doubted myself. A CP4 with Nord level EPs and Wurlys would be a huge winner for me.

Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37

 

My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section

https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native

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I couldn"t find this so far: Can you insert a new entry between two existing entries in the CP88 live set? One frustration for me on cp4 is that I have to store a bunch of duplicate performances to make sure I don"t erase my work when rearranging a set list.

 

Anyone try this? Maybe I gotta ask on Yamahasynth forum.

Barry

 

Home: Steinway L, Montage 8

 

Gigs: Yamaha CP88, Crumar Mojo 61, A&H SQ5 mixer, ME1 IEM, MiPro 909 IEMs

 

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Great review! Although I own the CP73, I can definitely affirm the quality of the raw samples with no effects or EQ. Coming from the SV1, on which the only way the EPs sounded good was when the amp sim and effects were on, the CP's raw samples blow me away. I can also speak to the playability of the the keybed on the 73. I played a wedding reception gig last week with a quartet, and I was using the Bosendorfer and CFX for the first hour and a half before switching to the 78 Rhodes. The key to sound connection for the pianos was great, but I've never played EPs on keyboard that just felt so good. I suppose it's hard to describe, but the 73 keybed is just killer for EPs.

"...and that TV channel at the hotel that's, like, ABOUT the hotel?"

 

Yamaha CP 73 / Numa Organ 2 / Korg Prologue 8

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the 73 keybed is just killer for EPs.

 

I played both models at my local GC this past Saturday evening after I got off from work. The action on the 73 reminded me of the action on my Wurlitzer 200. Like Sam, I came to the same conclusion. For stage piano use, you can't go wrong with either one of these. The only thing that I didn't love was the overdrive, but I am very fussy about that, so it wasn't surprising to me.

 

:nopity:
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Coming from the SV1, on which the only way the EPs sounded good was when the amp sim and effects were on

The only thing that I didn't love was the overdrive, but I am very fussy about that, so it wasn't surprising to me.

I think often the key to a great EP sounds IS the amp sim/overdrive. It's something that makes the SV1 as good as it is, so it's not something you want to take out of the equation. If you don't have a tube like the SV1, I'd be back to thinking about some high quality overdrive pedal, like I was talking about at https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3000158

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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I think often the key to a great EP sounds IS the amp sim/overdrive. It's something that makes the SV1 as good as it is, so it's not something you want to take out of the equation. If you don't have a tube like the SV1, I'd be back to thinking about some high quality overdrive pedal, like I was talking about at https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3000158

 

I guess it's the same as people who are willing to spend $400/$500 on a Neo Instruments Ventilator because they can't live with the leslie sim in their clonewheel. I will have to re visit the Yamaha keyboard and see if it would be worth US$400/$500 to add a Audient Sono.

 

:nopity:
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I'm curious as to whether the Rhodes/Wurli are different/better compared to what's on the Montage/MODX. Though the latter have the advantage of being able to download Busch's Purgatory Creek EPs into them, which I expect would beat either.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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IMHO, the first Rhodes on the CP88 (I think they call it a 78) is one of the best I've ever played on a slab. Just the right amount of bell for my tastes, and dynamics really responds well to my fingers.

 

I'm less impressed by the Wurlies, and it seemed to me there was a strange artificial metallic-ness to the CFX (I was playing the CP88 at a GC with two Yamaha near fields). I prefer the acoustic piano experience on the PX-S3000.

 

Back to the CP88, agree with others that the keybed itself is nicely responsive. And the Rhodes I could gig that every night.

..
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^^^

I played the CP88 side by side with the Crumar Seven and the P515 recently. CP88 Rhodes libraries are excellent - side by side some sound very similar to the modeled Rhodes on the Seven. 515 Rhodes is nothing special. CP88 and 515 acoustic pianos are beautiful (weak spot on the Seven). I agree with Dave the AP timbres differ between 515 and CP88 - the 88 would be preferable in band context. The upright on the 88 is a pleasure to hear and feel under your fingers. Actions on the CP88 and P515 are both excellent. The Seven"s TP100 action feels authentically Rhodes-like when using that engine but falls flat on Clav and Acoustic Pianos. The Seven needs more attention by the developer on getting dynamic response matched to these timbres). Yamaha is doing a great job on actions with their piano centric boards this product cycle - we already liked the CP4 and it"s nice they haven"t buggered that up.

 

I have a rebuilt Chickering from the golden age, so need need for the 515 as a console. I"m inclined to go for a CP88 over a Seven for practicality gigging. Although the Seven is the vibiest digital I"ve ever had the pleasure to play with and it"s so much cheaper than the Waldorf Zarenbourg or a Vintage Vibe Electric Piano.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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