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Is this extreme compression (Taylor Swift)?


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So Taylor Swift has this new hit: You Need To Calm Down.

 

Without judging the art and craft of songwriting, I've found that the song just fatigues me, even a few seconds in. My ears get tired:

 

 

I notice that everything about it feels "loud". The kick and snaps percussion that opens the song is at air-pushing volume (or gives that impression . . . I'm not sure about the psychology between perceived and actual volume), and the song never gets louder or softer the whole way through. When the chorus arrives with the layered vocals . . . it fills out the song frequency-wise, but doesn't really add any volume or dynamic energy.

 

I don't know that I'm articulating myself well, but it seems that every voice and instrument in this song is turned up to 11, and it makes me physically tired to listen to.

 

Bottom line, what could have been an enjoyable bubblegum song for me is un-listenable.

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Didn't seem any worse than 90% of the pop music being generated these days. Sadly.

 

Heh.

 

But, as a point of comparison, here's one of Swift's other huge hits from just a few years ago:

 

 

Right from the beginning it sounds/feels different. The different components of the percussion sound have different relative volumes in relation to each other. The horn section clearly feels "behind" the vocals.

 

To me, the production differences feel night and day.

 

Or, here's Katy Perry's Roar:

 

 

. . . the bass synth and compy synth/organ/whatever just sit nicely as supporting instruments behind the vocals. When the chorus comes in, the bass backs off. Still modern pop mixing, but with more taste, more variety, and less ear fatigue. In my opinion of course. :)

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It sounds better in the car ;)

 

That's actually me being semi-serious, because I've heard it while driving around. It was probably mastered for people being out and about during the summer.

 

We have a winner :)

 

I actually like the song, and it sounds great on the system in my truck. I also hear it around the pool.

David

Gig Rig:Casio Privia PX-5S | Yamaha MODX+ 6 | MacBook Pro 14" M1| Mainstage

 

 

 

 

 

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It sounds better in the car ;)

 

That's actually me being semi-serious, because I've heard it while driving around. It was probably mastered for people being out and about during the summer.

 

We have a winner :)

 

I actually like the song, and it sounds great on the system in my truck. I also hear it around the pool.

I agree, and those stacked vocals actually do pop out from the mix in that environment. Overall, I think it was rather skillfully mastered.

 

Not all pop is compressed to death. Old Town Road (which has been #1 on the Billboard Hot 100 for like forever) starts out very quiet and then hits hard at the drop. If you are streaming the track or listening to it on Youtube it may not be apparent, but as a DJ playing the MP3 I absolutely have to aware of it.

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I wouldn't say it's extreme compression, but I think the production sucks. Very fatiguing musically. And I'm not anti-pop music either. It also could simply be the instrumentation.

 

So 100% with you BluMunk.

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Here's a couple of other guilty pleasures I have in current female pop. Not expecting anyone else to agree with me :D

 

This one has been really big in the UK and elsewhere - not so much here in the US:

[video:youtube]

 

This one just came out. I love this track because of it's weird vocal loop hook, but I can see how it would drive some of you nuts:

 

[video:youtube]

 

Both have lyrics that really connect with young females (verified by my daughter :) )

 

 

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It"s a mix that carries on a cell phone"s speaker(s) and ear buds.

Which is how it"s delivered to 99.9% of her fans.

Which begs the question... is this significantly different than how music was mixed for AM radio back in the day?

 

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AM radio wasn"t the destination or even main delivery system. It was 45s and LPs. In the early days, disc jockeys were just playing the records. The radio broadcasting equipment altered the signal significantly. And just like today, the typical fan heard only the main ideas of a song - the lyric and the tune. Only audiophiles and musicians obsess over high quality audio.

 

 

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Stuff is being master these days for "good enough" systems because they know most are going to hear it on ear-buds or streaming. Then YouTube and I imagine streaming services are trying to cut down on bandwidth usages and compressing more. Most stuff mastered for good system now their target is for movie theaters, or some TV, but TV is getting to be stream based so bandwidth is an issue so compress the puppy.

 

Mastering engineers these days keep busy doing multiple masters based on target theater, vinyl, car, home, TV, stream, headphone, and radio and except for first two the targets are all "good enough" devices.

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When I think of extreme compression TayTay is nowhere near top on the list. I've typically found that her producers leave a lot of space (comparatively). I think her early stuff is wonderfully produced/recorded. (I have a now teen age daughter if you're wondering why I would even deign to know).

 

When I think of extreme compression I think of NuMetal. Drop that wavefile into your DAW and it just looks like a black stripe. Even the quiet parts of this sound squashed.

 

While I don't necessarily hate these songs, I hate the way these are produced. It's like they intentionally got rid of all dynamics and feel. IMHO way worse than Taylor Swifts new pop stuff.

 

[video:youtube]

[video:youtube]

 

[video:youtube]

You want me to start this song too slow or too fast?

 

Forte7, Nord Stage 3, XK3c, OB-6, Arturia Collection, Mainstage, MotionSound KBR3D. A bunch of MusicMan Guitars, Line6 stuff

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Here's a couple of other guilty pleasures I have in current female pop. Not expecting anyone else to agree with me :D

 

This one has been really big in the UK and elsewhere - not so much here in the US:

[video:youtube]

 

 

I like this one as well. It's often played in The Netherlands. Fun fact, Mabel is the daughter of Neneh Cherry, half-niece of Eagle Eye cherry and grand daughter of Jazz trumpeter Don Cherry. So, I guess it runs in the family.

 

About the Taylor Swift song, I understand what you mean. It is mastered pretty "dense". The shake it off song has much more space indeed. Different styles for different settings I think.

Rudy

 

 

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Here's a couple of other guilty pleasures I have in current female pop. Not expecting anyone else to agree with me :D

 

This one has been really big in the UK and elsewhere - not so much here in the US:

[video:youtube]

 

 

I like this one as well. It's often played in The Netherlands. Fun fact, Mabel is the daughter of Neneh Cherry, half-niece of Eagle Eye cherry and grand daughter of Jazz trumpeter Don Cherry. So, I guess it runs in the family.

 

About the Taylor Swift song, I understand what you mean. It is mastered pretty "dense". The shake it off song has much more space indeed. Different styles for different settings I think.

 

I didn't know that about Mabel thanks for the info :) What originally drew me into the track is it's super catchy synth loop that forms the backbone for the entire song. Once you hear it, you can't get it out of your head :freak: . That loop (as well as the whole track) has become a favorite with remixers. There's a version of Rihanna's Cheers with that loop floating around that's gaining popularity.

 

And you're right about Taylor Swift. Shake It Off came out - what... 5 years ago?... anyway it was right after Pharrell William's huge hit Happy which also featured more of a traditional sound at fast tempo. That's where pop was then - not so much now.

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In "You Need To Calm Down", it sounds like the percussion track has been massively overloaded/clipped, and that gives the fatiguing sound familiar to every muso of disco speakers of insufficient quality being pushed beyond their limits.

The mix is actually fairly spacious in the verse, but the chorus is dense, and headache-inducing for a different reason: pitch-correction :deadhorse:

 

And another thing, what's with the singing style, Mabel? It seems every girl and half the guys have got that "street" accent/affectation when they sing. Sounds very fake to me.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

 

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Distorted DJ speakers of insufficient quality has become a sound itself, seemingly enjoyed by 'modern listeners.' Somebody shoot me.

Barry

 

Home: Steinway L, Montage 8

 

Gigs: Yamaha CP88, Crumar Mojo 61, A&H SQ5 mixer, ME1 IEM, MiPro 909 IEMs

 

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I agree that the heavy handed flattening of dynamics can make the music exhausting to listen to, not only pop music, but in any genre, recorded or in live performances. If the drummer is hitting everything as hard as he can for most of the night I will literally fall asleep. On the other hand, when I hear guys like Al Green or Dr Lonnie Smith using dynamics masterfully, I am drawn in. I find it funny to have to talk about and plan dynamics with some of my rock musician friends, especially after I have had opportunities to play with other musicians who just make expressive dynamic levels happen, because they listen so well. (Sorry for the OT rant.)

 

While I spent many years mostly ignoring pop/commercial music (I got to gig a lot in other genres over the years), in the past couple of years I have tried to pay more attention to it. It seems to me that the dynamics that we DO get in pop recordings are due to the arrangements where instruments/parts drop in and out. I find some of the modern arrangements to be fairly clever for that reason. I wish my drummer friends would just drop out of the mix in the same ways that pop producers drop the drum machines out...How can we miss you, if you won"t go away? I agree that I would rather hear singers use their actual voices, rather than use affectations to imitate each other. WTF? It"s like listening to a guitarist play SRV licks all night. While I"m at it, could you just stop using the pitch altered vocal samples that everyone else is using too please? ...

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Distorted DJ speakers of insufficient quality has become a sound itself, seemingly enjoyed by 'modern listeners.' Somebody shoot me.

 

Nothing new, at all.

 

There was the "completely overdriven Mackie mixer" sound of the mid-to-late '90s (Björk's "Yoga" and "Army of Me", for example). That utilised distortion from the (pre-VLZ) input stages and the fact that those old Mackies will start massively compressing a mix if you hit it a little harder.

 

And the "drive it hard, cuz a little distortion never hurt nobody" Motown attitude of the '60s, with mastering slammed right up to the limit a needle could handle.

"The Angels of Libra are in the European vanguard of the [retro soul] movement" (Bill Buckley, Soul and Jazz and Funk)

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I would draw a distinction between distortion purposefully put into a mix recording vs. lame playback equipment that doesn"t reproduce faithfully.

Barry

 

Home: Steinway L, Montage 8

 

Gigs: Yamaha CP88, Crumar Mojo 61, A&H SQ5 mixer, ME1 IEM, MiPro 909 IEMs

 

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And the "drive it hard, cuz a little distortion never hurt nobody" Motown attitude of the '60s, with mastering slammed right up to the limit a needle could handle.
Tape and valves (tubes) handle overloading very differently from Pro Tools. Plus with musicianship like Berry Gordy could attract, you can't go wrong.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

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I would draw a distinction between distortion purposefully put into a mix recording vs. lame playback equipment that doesn"t reproduce faithfully.

So would I.

 

I was talking entirely about the former.

"The Angels of Libra are in the European vanguard of the [retro soul] movement" (Bill Buckley, Soul and Jazz and Funk)

The Drawbars | off jazz organ trio

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I've found that the song just fatigues me, even a few seconds in. My ears get tired:

That"s the Rick Rubin disease.

 

'Loudness war"

 

Since at least 1999, Rubin has been criticized by listeners for contributing to a phenomenon in music known as the loudness war, in which the dynamic range of recorded music is compressed and sometimes clipped in order to increase the general loudness.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Rubin#%22Loudness_war%22

The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers

 

People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin

 

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It"s a mix that carries on a cell phone"s speaker(s) and ear buds.

Which is how it"s delivered to 99.9% of her fans.

Which begs the question... is this significantly different than how music was mixed for AM radio back in the day?

The radio stations added the compression at the point of delivery, not the engineers of the songs.

The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers

 

People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin

 

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