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OT- I want to buy local but...A GC Story


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Just need to blow off some steam here.

 

My son wants to learn to play drums. Given that he has done extremely well learning guitar on his own (with the help of an iPhone, YouTube and Tabs app), I didn't want to squelch his musical enthusiasm and told him we could get an electronic kit. Truth is I'd like one at home as well. After doing the obligatory internet research on what's available, I called our local Guitar Center and asked if they had two specific models in stock and if they were playable in the store. The salesman gave affirmatives to both questions and asked us to find him at the store, so we made the 20 minute drive to have a look. Turns out there were 3 kits set up, none of which were the models or brands I requested and all were in terrible condition. When I mentioned this to the salesman, he just shrugged his shoulders and said that they have the models I asked about in the warehouse. I reminded him that he told me on the phone that the models I wanted to try out were ready to play. He (referred to from this point forward as the little twit) again just shrugged his shoulders and said in his 'I don't give a !@#$, mouth-breather twit attitude', "uh, OK". He went on to say that they only put out demo units that the manufacturers give them for that purpose. I told him that I understand, but the fact still remains that he told me there were playable units at the store and that it's not unreasonable to want to demo something like this prior to purchasing. Again with the shrug and unenthusiastic response. So we walked out. It so happens that a Sam Ash is on the opposite side of the shopping complex. They had 10 or so electronic kits set up and ready to test out. They had the one we decided on in a box which is now set up in our music room.

Wm. David McMahan

I Play, Therefore I Am

 

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Everything is a people business. Get them upset and they don't come back.

 

Enjoy the drumset - good job nurturing your son's interest.

 

Jake

1967 B-3 w/(2) 122's, Nord C1w/Leslie 2101 top, Nord PedalKeys 27, Nord Electro 4D, IK B3X, QSC K12.2, Yamaha reface YC+CS+CP

 

"It needs a Hammond"

 

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That's the kind of interaction that's worth at least an e-mail to the store's manager. The kid doesn't care if he loses a customer, but the manager should.

 

All-Store-613-Cincinnati-Retail-Managers@guitarcenter.com

 

 

I thought about doing that and may still. But what I did do today was call the store mgr. at Sam Ash and thank him for having proper, working displays and for salespeople that seem to care. He was very appreciative and said that the call made his day. Having been in music retail, and also customer/dealer support on the MI manufacturing side of things, I know that it is rare to get a positive call, so making that call made me feel as good as it did him.

Wm. David McMahan

I Play, Therefore I Am

 

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That's GC today they have over computerized how they sell and the employees including manager and just hands and feet for the computer system to tell what to do. This is what happens when corporate suits start just looking at numbers and not the shopping experience. It seems to me GC looks at the stores now as mainly regional distribution points for the many online stores they have.

 

I've only experienced a couple Sam Ash store, but they still tried to leave some leeway for the employees to demo and deal on gear and made shopping more like days gone past. Sadly the online stores and big chains have turned most local stores into just lessons, accessories, and repairs. Many of they get the customers who bought cheap instruments online especially brass and woodwinds to discover the stuff is barely playable. Then get mad at local store for cost to fix the instrument repairs.

 

Retail today is a mess.

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I went to my local GC early last year to place an order for a Ludwig drum set. The salesman was indifferent and told me to come back some other time. So I went back a week or so later and talked to another associate and he told they could get the set I wanted but to come back another time. I don't know what's up with them turning down a $2000 sale but I guess most of the guys there only handle guitars/amps and don't know how to place an order for drums. I ended up going to a local independent drum-oriented music store that was happy to make the sale.
C3/122, M102A, Vox V301H, Farfisa Compact, Gibson G101, GEM P, RMI 300A, Piano Bass, Pianet , Prophet 5 rev. 2, Pro-One, Matrix 12, OB8, Korg MS20, Jupiter 6, Juno 60, PX-5S, Nord Stage 3 Compact
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bear in mind that last year GC was Chapter 11 -- orders from above may have hamstrung the freedom of in-store demos. Which in no way excuses the attitude of the employee, but then maybe all the good employees left, but this guy still shows up.*

 

*speaking from personal experience of running a chain-store (Performance Bike) with only one employee besides myself

It's not the gear, it's the player ... but hey, look -- new gear!

 

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In all the years I have hung out on the KB corner (on and off) I don't recall ever reading a positive review of GC. There are a lot of reasons businesses go belly up, but poor Customer Service is one BIG reason. Upset a customer that wants to BUY something, they leave and don't come back.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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You should trying to spend money in The Middle East!

 

Tried to get all $1200 worth of my Gibraltar rack/stand stuff here. No chance from the distributor here. Not an email or call or anything back.

 

Same with an RD2000 I wanted to try. Can I come play it in the store? 'Yes'

Get there, same as the OP 'We have them in the warehouse...'

 

Just bought 2x Kronos" second hand from friends instead. I"d obviously prefer the local warranty etc, but it"s easier to fix stuff yourself here, too.

 

Weather"s nice, and the $$$ can be, though.

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I've been buying from GC since forever. I'm lucky, there's a large store here in SF.

 

Pros:

- great selection of keyboards, large store

- biggest online selection of used gear, besides Reverb, that I know of. You find something you want and they ship it to you or the store free of charge. Even used gear gets their 45 day return, and because I've got a local store, I can return gear without having to ship it.

- maybe half of the keyboards are hooked up to speakers

- mostly helpful staff

- 45 days is longest return in the industry that i know of, and unlike some stores, like ProaudioStar and others, there's almost never a re-stocking fee

 

Cons:

- have rarely encountered someone working keyboards that knew half as much as I do, and I'm no great expert

- I've noticed that they've changed their haggling policy over the years. These days they don't allow the sales staff to re-negotiate the price unless there's a price check with another store, which they call in.

 

Being that taxes are charged now, they're in a better bargaining position, the out-of-state retailers can't undercut them because of sales tax, so I imagine that it'll be harder to squeeze a better deal out of them. But still, I LOVE having a large store I can go to and try out the merch before buying

 

Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425

Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder

QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus 

Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB

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I don't consider buying from any chain, GC, SA, Walmart, Best Buy, etc. to be "buying local." I would argue that while you might be helping a local dude or two with their paycheck, most of that money supports the big corporation.

 

That being said, even here in Houston where we do have a lot of local businesses in other categories including record stores and guitar shops, buying keyboards, pro audio, etc., usually requires a chain.

 

(I know Dave probably meant "local" as opposed to buying online sight unseen.)

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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Its really hard to buy from mom and pop when they are more expensive (often by a lot) than the chains...and the chains are more expensive (often by a lot) than certain online vendors who will happily give a quote lower than the stated price!

 

What I don't get is how the keyboards at most of the stores stand a good chance of not even being plugged in (power and/or audio). The nearest sam ash has a bunch in a room, half of which have no cables running to them, while the ones that do are ALL plugged into a single Roland keyboard amp (I won't start that one up again....)

 

Granted, I would bring headphones to audition something in blessed silence (two gospel dudes who spent my entire lunch break jamming with one sound, looking at you), but the mentality of not setting up your wares properly is baffling. The other odd thing is the complete lack of any salesperson at any of the stores. I don't like pushy people who bug you, but there's just no interest in actually helping the customer at these stores. (to be fair, at Sam Ash the guitar dept guys have asked me if I needed help.)

 

"Oh, you want to buy a mattress? Well, I've got one back in the back in a box--no,you can't lay on it--but I'll ring it up for you!"

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In all the years I have hung out on the KB corner (on and off) I don't recall ever reading a positive review of GC.
Here's one.

 

Last year, with a trip to Richmond VA pending, I called the guitar center there and said "Hey, do you have an AX-Edge?"

 

"No but we can get one. When?"

 

"I'll be in town for two days at the end of next week, with some trade-ins."

 

A few days later, in Richmond with my 4-year-old used AX-Synth and a couple of pedals, I went into GC. They had the AX-Edge in the back waiting for me. They took it out, and let me play with it for as long as I wanted. Then we tallied up my trade-ins, and then they discounted the new piece by 15% or so, and then they honored a 20% coupon -- and I left the building with a new AX-Edge, having traded in a 4-year-old synth and $150 boot. All my GC purchases, whether in store or over the phone, have been quite good, as has been their followup when there were technical issues.

 

-Tom Williams

{First Name} {at} AirNetworking {dot} com

PC4-7, PX-5S, AX-Edge, PC361

 

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Another positive review...

 

I was gassing for an Arturia Minilab MKII. Not only did I find one online at my local Guitar Center, but they had one of the "limited edition" black ones. Traditionalist!

 

I called them up and asked for keyboards, which is also recording or live sound... I forget and digress. Got patched thru to employee dude, and had the essential conversation for successful customer service...

 

- I want this board.

- Here's the GC ID number you need to make your job easy... do you have it?

- Would you please go find it and put my name on it? If so, I'll be there at lunch to get it.

- What's your name again? Thanks , look forward to seeing you in a bit!

 

Arrive at GC. Hi, I'm looking for . Hi, I called... you got it? Looks great, ka-ching... see ya!

 

Did I mentioned they price-matched a competitor? Easy-peasy! :keynana:

MainStage; Hammond SK1-73; Roland XP-80, JV-90, JV-1080, JV-1010, AX-1; Korg microSAMPLER;

Boss DR-880; Beat Buddy; Neo Instruments Ventilator; TC Electronic ND-1 Nova Delay

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Another positive review...

 

I was gassing for an Arturia Minilab MKII. Not only did I find one online at my local Guitar Center, but they had one of the "limited edition" black ones. Traditionalist!

 

I called them up and asked for keyboards, which is also recording or live sound... I forget and digress. Got patched thru to employee dude, and had the essential conversation for successful customer service...

 

- I want this board.

- Here's the GC ID number you need to make your job easy... do you have it?

- Would you please go find it and put my name on it? If so, I'll be there at lunch to get it.

- What's your name again? Thanks , look forward to seeing you in a bit!

 

Arrive at GC. Hi, I'm looking for . Hi, I called... you got it? Looks great, ka-ching... see ya!

 

Did I mentioned they price-matched a competitor? Easy-peasy! :keynana:

I'm curious what you had to do to price match? Every time I've tried that they want to know the store name and they call to verify the price I said I was getting. Seems a little awkward, getting another store to tell a GC person their low price. Not sure how to navigate that one.

 

Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425

Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder

QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus 

Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB

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Well the positive stories here are exceptions to the rule it seems like. I know our local rep that runs the audio portion here locally. His hands are tied when it comes to certain things. It's a depressing department to walk into.

"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"

 

 

noblevibes.com

 

 

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Yet another positive experience:

 

The day I bought my Korg M3, I walked into GC with a "20% off" coupon in my wallet. On that particular day, the M3 was also on sale for approximately 20% off the regular price. I was told I could either pay the sale price, or use my coupon with the regular price (not both)... which would give me 20% off either way.

 

However, when I got up to the register, the sales rep made a phone call to the store manager and a few minutes later, I was the happy recipient of BOTH discounts! :w00t:

 

 

When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray.
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I'm curious what you had to do to price match? Every time I've tried that they want to know the store name and they call to verify the price I said I was getting. Seems a little awkward, getting another store to tell a GC person their low price. Not sure how to navigate that one.

I think I showed them a competitor's website on my phone, I don't recall which one. They pulled it up on their computer to confirm.

MainStage; Hammond SK1-73; Roland XP-80, JV-90, JV-1080, JV-1010, AX-1; Korg microSAMPLER;

Boss DR-880; Beat Buddy; Neo Instruments Ventilator; TC Electronic ND-1 Nova Delay

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Where I feel GC is really excellent is for used gear.

 

Prices aren't always great, but they tend to be good and sometimes excellent.

 

What makes it really nice for a customer is that you can return for any reason LOCALLY within 30 days, even if you bought it from a GC elsewhere. You might eat shipping if there's no actual problem with it, but that tends to be pretty low.

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In reading the positive experiences above, I should have titled this thread 'a bad salesman story'. I'm sure there are GC's around the country that have properly trained sales staff, working demos in good condition, etc. So the blame isn't directed at the company as a whole. Then again, in the case of the location I went to at least, some of the blame could be traced back to the store manager and/or sales manager and their choice in hiring guys like I experienced. When I was selling retail MI, I did exceptionally well. The reason for that was because I intimately knew the products I was selling, listened to the customers needs and desires, and then directed them to what would do the best job for them. But to give the store management a possible break, it has become increasingly difficult to find knowledgeable, friendly people who are willing to work the long hours required for low wages offered. Which brings up the question, why the low wages? Brick and mortar mom and pop stores have a rough time these days. Consumers use these stores as showrooms and then make their purchases online. Many consumers don't care about the lack of knowledgeable staff because most of what they need to know can be found on the internet, although I still believe there is no replacing live face-to-face interaction with a salesperson to help you make a smart purchase. Big box and online only stores get preferential treatment from manufactures in the way of product availability and discounts in response to large orders. Personally, I am very willing to pay a little more in order to buy locally. And while the store in question is a big box store, it still employs guys and gals that live in the area. Unfortunately there are no mom and pop stores in town that stock much in the way of pro MI. So it's GC or Sam Ash. Another issue that has hurt the small MI businesses are the insane return policies of the big corporate owned stores. Being able to return an item is one thing. But how long does it really take to determine if the product is right for you? I've known several folks who have taken advantage of the lengthy return policies by using an instrument for performances or recording sessions with no intention of actually keeping it. That's wrong.

 

I feel the wood of the soapbox I'm standing on starting to bend so I'll stop now. ;)

Wm. David McMahan

I Play, Therefore I Am

 

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I'd like to address a few things here. For context, I was a GC employee for years, and I was also an employee of Gand Music, which was a boutique music store north of Chicago ("Boutique" as in Fairlights, Gleemans, OSCs, etc).

 

You always need a store like GC in an ecosystem. They are the store that does everything by numbers. Everything is opportunity-cost evaluated. When I worked at GC, it was in MIDI's infancy. The keyboard room was always full of all three keyboard sizes of Korg flagship, all models of Kurzweild Ks, etc, etc. Literally 60 keyboards or more out for display. And they were all hooked up to speakers. All carefully labeled by me, ziptied, and all the mixer channels labeled.

 

And the next day, at LEAST 50% of the cables were pulled out, things were moved around...just a mess. And I was IN the room the whole time. So it would take me from 8:30am to 11:00 to put everything back into place. So that's one hour after we were open that I wouldn't be making commission. Fast forward to today. Since everyone is on flat pay, it makes no sense to put them on maintenance mode when you could just have two quarter inch cables behind the counter and a few amps scattered around. It looks like crap, but I've never had a GC employee turn me away when I asked for them to hook something up for me.

 

So there always has to be a mass market retailer around to wield the power of scale, and the GC/MF/WWBW/M123 conglomerate is that retailer. It helps expose new people to product in a way that a mom and pop cannot, especially the mom and pops in my area. I think any semi-serious musician realizes by now that GC employees are not hired for their expertise. I'm not saying that places like GC Hollywood don't have experts...I'm saying that's not a prerequisite at GC Yuma or Schenectady.

 

The wrench in the works, though, is online. As mentioned above, the requirement, in my state anyway, that online retailers collect tax has been a great equalizer (pardon the pun).

 

And in terms of try before you buy, that's why GC has a 45 day return policy. As a music store employee, it sucks to get electronic drums returned, though, they never go back into the box correctly.

 

I agree that retail as an industry is in an upheaval, and MI is even worse than the norm. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out.

"For instance" is not proof.

 

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