(1) sustain pedal; (2) keyboards ??

[engineerjoel]

I'm wanting to use only (1) sustain pedal to "sustain" (2) different keyboards at the same time. (note: Midi'ing one keyboard to the other keyboard is not an option)

 

I have a Yamaha S80 and a Yamaha P115.

 

Currently, each keyboard has its own Yamaha FC4A sustain pedal.

 

Since the Yamaha FC4A works for both Yamaha keyboards, I assumed that I could omit one of the FC4A's and use a Y-cable to connect the remaining FC4A to both keyboard's Sustain inputs. I would like to be able to sustain both keyboards at the same time -- as many times I'll play one keyboard with one hand and the other keyboard with the other hand.

 

Here's what I've assembled:

FC4A plugged into a Hosa GPP-105 (1/4"-to-1/4" female coupler);...... to reverse the male gender of the FC4a to female gender.

Then, connecting a Hosa YPP-111 (1/4" TS male to dual 1/4" TS female) Y-cable;

Then, use (2) TS patch cables to connect one side of the Y-cable cable to the S80's sustain input and the other side of the Y-cable to the P-115's sustain input.

 

Although, in theory, I thought this would work perfectly. But, no!

 

The Y-cable seems to upset the P115 and causing the P115 to sustain indefinitely. But, the sustain for the S80 works perfectly and has no issue with the Y-cable.

 

Help! anyone have a solution to the problem?

 

Thanks

 

[Stephen Fortner]

I have a couple of guesses here but someone with more recent experience of trying to do the same might have a better answer.

 

First, it's possible that some part of your adaptor chain is wired such that it's flipping the polarity of the path to your P115. When you press the sustain pedal down, do the sustained notes stop (i.e. does the pedal behave in reverse)? If so, see if the P115 has a pedal polarity option in its global settings or setup menu.

 

Second â and this would be the harder scenario to correct â sustain pedals work by opening or closing a circuit, depending on the polarity. It could be that regardless of polarity, the split signal and extra cabling adds just enough impedance that your P115 is not seeing enough current to change the status of the circuit. If the notes are always on and pressing the pedal down does not turn them off, that suggests that your polarity is flipped AND that the P115 sustain jack isn't seeing enough electrons.

 

If one keyboard can transmit sustain on/off messages via MIDI and the other can receive it, your best bet would be to connect the sustain pedal to the transmitting keyboard, connect it's MIDI out to the MIDI in of the receiving keyboard, and make appropriate menu settings so the pedal does double duty.

[Joe P]

A company made one called Dual Sustain Single Pedal, I don't think they do anymore but maybe you can find one used? Here is an old Amazon listing for it. Good luck!

 

DSSP

[EscapeRocks]

Stephen is pretty much right on.

 

It's a voltage issue. Also it's a keyboard preservation issue. Tying the pedal to two boards will connect their grounds, and this is NOT something either board is designed to deal with. It could cause all kinds of issues with your keyboards. You'd actually need to build a small box with a relay and some diodes to isolate each line, and maintain proper voltage.

 

For error free use, you really have two options. 2 sustain pedals, or MIDI, as Stephen suggested.

 

[engineerjoel]

Thanks for everyone's comments and suggestions.

 

The reason I said "Midi was not an option" is because the P115 does not have the standard 5-pin MIDI I/O's. The P115 only has USB. The S80 only has standard midi and no USB. Also, even if both keyboards were MIDI'ed together, then the sounds from the two different keyboards would be "layered" on the master keyboard...and I don't want a layered sound.

 

Instead of having to spend $100+ on a something like an iConnectivity device, I thought maybe a $6.00 y-cable would be sufficient...But, apparently, I'll have to breakout the credit card......

 

[EscapeRocks]

The iConnectivity audio 4+ is awesome. I use it now and then especially for it's MIDI Host ability.

 

I use it when I am not running my Mainstage rig and still want to use my wireless Keytar. I just plug the wireless receiver into the Audio 4+ and I can now control either keyboard in the rig from the Vortex

[JimboKeys]

Voltage issue could also be that the keyboards are applying sense current at different voltages (another reason to not tie the sustain pedal inputs together).

And (as the OP mentioned) MIDI is not a possibility - in this case because the P115 lacks DIN MIDI connections.

 

IIRC this topic was discussed in another thread recently - i remember someone mentioning that they had something that they had gotten a tech to build long ago, using relays to close the connections for each pedal input.

 

- Jimbo

 

 

[hardware]

I use a Henry Engineering Patch II.

It"s a port multiplier and a Swiss Knife.

I don"t like thru ports on most powered Cabs so I use this and send from there to IEMs, FOH and Stage Monitors, or all.

 

 

[J. Dan]

You could potentially replace the switch in the pedal with one that is DPDT.

 

I use the small Roland plastic square pedals and have them essentially taped together. I can use them independently if needed or can just step on both of them together. I can even keep one sustained while pedaling the other one just by rotating one side of my foot up and down.

[AnotherScott]

I'd take Dan's approach. Simple, flexible, inexpensive, and foolproof.

[J. Dan]

Note: I use the Roland DP-2 pedals. I've tried other similar styles of pedals that seem like they are made better, but these cheapies last longer than any other that I've tried. First set I used ended up mounted to a sheet metal base with a multipin connector to plug into my snake. Used that set for about 15-20 years before I changed rigs and dumped the snake, so I just bought another pair, which I've been using for about 10 years now. Never had a failure. So why did I try other pedals, you ask? I wanted duplicate sets of pedals at home, rehearsal space, and in my gig bag, and guitar center didn't have the DP-2 in stock.

 

I keep the cables cable tied together and have a piece of blue tape on one of the pedals, as well as the corresponding connector to identify which plugs into which board.

[MathOfInsects]

I do something like Dan does for two-board set-ups: I have two pedals velcroed together with the cables snaked, so it amounts to one pedal for two boards. Easy enough to step on either one individually or both together.

 

I seem to remember making a hinged board for a set-up like this at some point in my musical life, where I could flip up the front edge of the pedal board to push both pedals down with one step, but I can't picture a scenario where this would be easier than just stepping on both at once, so it must have been for some other kind of pedals at that point.

[Losendoskeys]

I use this - foolproof for a dual input

 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/midi_solutions_dual_footswitch_controller.htm

 

You need one of these:

 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/midi_solutions_footswitch_to_midi_controller.htm

 

You'll also need one of these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adapter-USB-to-Midi-In-Out/dp/B000XRI3CC

[Reezekeys]

May I guess (like a lot of folk here, lol)? Mine is as good as everyone else's, I suppose.

 

According to the owner manuals I just quickly perused, the P115 can use a continuous damper pedal. The P80 uses the typical on/off pedal. This may be why you're seeing the issue you describe. Sorry I can't offer a solution.

[Margo P]

Is this the latest potential resolution to this issue (I'm also having)?

[drand48a]

A Y-cable is a bad idea for a number of reasons.  I suspect in the OP's case, one keyboard is set to normally-open and the other to normally-closed.  Otherwise, it would have seemed to work, but still a really bad idea, because not only does it connect the grounds of the two keyboards, it connects the power of the two keyboards together.  With limiting resistors, of course, so not immediately fatal, but sheesh.  Not what they're intended to do.  We have enough issues with ground loops to add another ground loop AND a power loop to boot.

 

In any case, you need to know the "sense" (often mislabeled "polarity") for the two keyboards.  It can be normally open or normally closed.  Many keyboards allow you to configure it.  Some keyboards "figure it out" but for NC, it only works if you plug the pedal in in before powering up.

 

I like J-Dan's idea, but today's pedals aren't as easy to modify.

 

I just opened up my On-Stage pedal (with a "polarity" switch) and I see that unlike the leaf spring from the bad ol' days (which would be easy to replace), this has the kind with the little black disks in the rubber sleeves (just like keyboard action contacts.)  Those wouldn't be easy to replace.  BUT -- if you're just lucky enough that one keyboard can be in "normally open" mode and the other in "normally closed" mode, then you can very easily rewire this pedal to have two cables.

 

Post back if you want the details.

 

It's the On Stage KS100 sustain pedal; cheap and available anywhere.

 

Those old leaf springs would eventually break; I've fixed a few so glad to see they're now history.  I can't say whether the newer ones are more reliable, though.  I think they're just not guaranteed to fail, like the leaf springs.