elif Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 The last time I recorded direct from the board was using an Allen & Heath Qu-16 digital mixer. It recorded directly to an external hard disk via USB. It controlled the start/stop etc. I then copied the resulting multi-channel wav files into Reaper for editing. I no longer have the Qu-16 so I'm looking for another solution. I'm looking at buying the Behringer XR18 for live mixing, but only if I can successfully record the raw 18 channels. I have only just started studying the user manual, but it uses USB for audio transfer and requires installation of a multi-channel windows ASIO driver. I presume, and am willing to be wrong, that I will need a laptop and a DAW (probably Reaper), to record sets. Done anyone have any experience doing this with this box? Are there any pitfalls, experiences of disaster? Or on the other hand, has it worked flawlessly and with excellent results? The reality is probably somewhere in-between I expect. Thanks in advance. -- bradley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 Well, for what it's worth? I've done rehearsal recordings (not live) several times with the XR18 and have been more than satisfied with the results. I use a Mac and a few different DAWs as I'm experimenting around to see what works best for me. Live electric band, maybe 14 channels? Turn off all the effects on the XR18, watch your levels etc. and you end up with decent tracks in terms of sonic accuracy and S/N headroom. From there you're into DAW land and your own skills. I'm sure there are better recording consoles out there, but if all you want is reasonable quality for not much $$$ I'd have to recommend it. Also a kick-a$$ live mixer as well. Just don't forget to add an external router unless you want to have a really bad day. Quote Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfields Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 I've done rehearsal recordings from the X18 to a Linux laptop running Ardour. The only problems were due to my having no idea how to mic a band. OK, and independent of whatever software you use, it is a little clumsy having to deal with a laptop. Only a little--once you get it started up you can ignore it. But I can see how the ability to record direct to a USB drive would be convenient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Williams Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 When I bought my XR18, it came with a coupon for the Traction recording (recoding? I thought it was going to be a discussion of computer programs...) -- Uh, what was I saying? Oh yeah, Traction recording software, which includes the 18 channel driver. Worked fine on Windows 7 and 10. Quote -Tom Williams {First Name} {at} AirNetworking {dot} com PC4-7, PX-5S, AX-Edge, PC361 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyMoe Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 I have used the XR18 for recording in the past and it has worked out well. Although you do need a laptop or desktop to record to. I have not experienced any issues with loading the required drivers on my laptop. Another option might be the XR 32 rack and the X-live recording card which allows you to record directly to a memory card. The X-live expansion card for the X32 runs about $130. This setup allows for recording up to 16 individual tracks simultaneously in an uncompressed wave format. Can be expanded to 32 tracks with additional inputs. I have had great results with the X32 as well. Quote Montage 7, Mojo 61, PC-3, XK-3c Pro, Kronos 88, Hammond SK-1, Motif XF- 7, Hammond SK-2, Roland FR-1, FR-18, Hammond B3 - Blond, Hammond BV -Cherry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elif Posted July 15, 2019 Author Share Posted July 15, 2019 I have looked at both the XR18 and X32 Rack. One nice thing about the XR18 is that all connections are on the front so it can put on the floor like a snake stage box. However recording requires a USB capture device. Could both control and audio capture be done with a single laptop? I have no idea what processing power is needed to simply record. I wonder if a Raspberry Pi 3+ or 4 could do it. One nice thing about the X32 Rack is that it has a display that could be used as a backup in case someone steps on the controlling iPad. You wouldn't really need to bring a laptop for backup, though I suppose one could struggle by with a phone or something. Also, the X32 Rack manual says it records two channels direct to a USB flash drive, so no an X-live card is required apparently to record multiple channels. However, because it has all the connections on the back, it can't be used like a snake stage box. Rather it would be mounted in a rack. It would be a more like a traditional mixer, though without a surface. Still, the ease of recording has some appeal when the X-live card is added. Edit: Corrections in red. I should have read the manual more closely on recording capability and believed information posted by a user. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalman Stern Posted July 17, 2019 Share Posted July 17, 2019 The Behringer/Midas units provide class compliant USB audio interfaces, so on any recent computer you just plug it in and it should work. Still needs recording software. Some versions of Windows may work better with a driver. One can plug it in to an iPad ir maybe iPhone and record there if a laptop is a hassle to bring. My only complaint the MR18/Xr18 as a live recording interface is it looks to be a some channels short of running everything plus the live mix for recording. (One gets 18 channels to the computer IIRC. There are 16 mic/line inputs plus two stereo pairs of line inputs, then the mix busses, so more outputs could be used.) The Zoom LiveTrak L-20R is a bit newer and offers direct to SD card recording. The only down side I see to the Zoom is no built-in WiFi. Zoom rack version is quite new, if available at all yet. Both Behringer/Midas and Zoom offer rack and control surface mixer versions. -Z- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elif Posted July 17, 2019 Author Share Posted July 17, 2019 My only complaint the MR18/Xr18 as a live recording interface is it looks to be a some channels short of running everything plus the live mix for recording. (One gets 18 channels to the computer IIRC. There are 16 mic/line inputs plus two stereo pairs of line inputs, then the mix busses, so more outputs could be used.) Great comments. Thanks for that. Comparing the XR18 and L-20R, the XR18 is looking better for my situation. However, I'm a little confused about your comment I quoted regarding more outputs. I don't see two stereo pairs of line inputs, rather one pair of mono TRS line inputs. What am I not seeing here... As it turns out, I have an iPad Air (128GB). I was looking at some apps to use for tracking, Auria, MultitrackStudio, some others. Would it be possible to use the iPad to do both functions, control and recording simultaneously? The USB recording bandwidth looks to be about 2.6 MB/sec for 18 channels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalman Stern Posted July 18, 2019 Share Posted July 18, 2019 IIRC, the issue I was thinking of on the MR18/XR18 is one can't get all 18 inputs *and* the stereo mix out to the audio interface. You can send the stereo mix, and maybe busses too, but the total number of outs to the audio interface is a bit smaller than what is needed to send everything. Not by much, but it is nice to record the FOH stereo mix so one doesn't have to remix in the DAW to get a quick and dirty stereo track for immediate sharing. The Zoom seems spec'ed to have more tracks on the audio interface and will record all of them to the SD, or I think a USB drive. (It will also do 96kHz.) None of this stuff really matters all that much, but I figured I'd mention it. I expect the Zoom is will put a bit of price pressure on the Midas MR18. I really like Mark Of The Unicorn's interfaces and theoretically they should be great for live mixing and recording as well. But they're more expensive and they don't have a dedicated application for mixer control. It's a web app. That should be really a great way to go, but in practice, it doesn't work very well for live use. Depending on whether one is using Chrome of Safari on an iPad, there are different rendering/UI bugs that make it very problematic. My initial poking at the Midas/Behringer iOS app for the MR18/X18 is more promising. Like they're actually testing it for live sound work. But I haven't actually done a gig with one yet. Auria is pretty good, but in my experience, switching to another app or letting the iPad lock/sleep while it is recording is game over. In both cases, I've lost entire recording sessions. In fact I pretty much gave up on using the iPad for recording because when things go wrong, it is possible to lose the entire tracking session. The nicest thing about doing everything in Auria is one can mix and then share stuff very portably. It would be possible to let an iPad do double duty if not making any mixing adjustments while recording, but that seems fairly limiting. Also, the iPad needs to be on a USB cable for recording while mix control can be entirely wireless. USB bandwidth really isn't an issue for 44.1/48kHz work. -Z- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elif Posted July 20, 2019 Author Share Posted July 20, 2019 IIRC, the issue I was thinking of on the MR18/XR18 is one can't get all 18 inputs *and* the stereo mix out to the audio interface. You can send the stereo mix, and maybe busses too, but the total number of outs to the audio interface is a bit smaller than what is needed to send everything. I see. While many things can be selected to be recorded, there is a limitation in the number. I found this tracker project using a Banana Pi M1 to capture tracks from an XR18, X32 or M32. Control of it is via an android device. AFAIK the M1 does not have built-in WiFi, so a little confused there how it is supposed to work. External WiFi dongle maybe. The M1+ does have built-in WiFi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjones Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 I've recorded with the XR18 and the QSC Touchmix16. I currently own the Touchmix and I recorded last night's show. It worked great. I bought the Touchmix because I can plug in a small USB SSD drive and multitrack record directly to it. I don't have to bring a laptop and manage a DAW to record... I just plug in the SSD, arm the right tracks, and press record. I throw the tracks in Logic after the show. The XR18 will function as a computer audio interface, so it's better if you'd like to use it in that way. I have a decent interface in my studio, so I didn't need that functionality in my live mixer. I also like that the Touchmix has a screen interface if something goes wrong with the iPad... or if I don't wish to bring the iPad. Quote My Big Live Rig: Nord Stage 3 Compact StudioLogic SL88 Grand The CAT by Octave Hohner Melodica Leslie 145 Silverface Bassman 70 -> Custom 2x10 cabinet 2 - QSC K8.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elif Posted July 24, 2019 Author Share Posted July 24, 2019 Base on comments here, along with the others mentioned, I am now studying both the QU-SB and the Soundcraft Ui24R headless mixers. Geesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elif Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 Quick update: I bought the X32 Rack and built the Banana Tracker to record up to 32 tracks. All works well so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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