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Rock Goddesses Rule #2998557 07/14/19 07:50 PM
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MotiDave Offline OP
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So we had one of those “all star” charity benefit jams where people from lots of different bands come together and learn 3 or 4 sets of tunes and the proceeds go to some cause. Last night’s was “Rock Goddesses” meaning it was all women - ladies who play in local or regional rock bands - from standard classic rock to blues to hard to heavy and all rock in between (short of death metal - oddly no death metal contributors lol). They put together a very interesting eclectic song mix spanning from late 60’s to 90’s, with about 15 or so (more?) rock goddesses - a handful of them shuffling on and off stage from the side green room every couple songs or so depending on song and who was taking what role. Constant mix n match the entire show and they just nailed it seamlessly and flawlessly, never more than a few seconds between song - except where intended (e.g. discuss the cause - which was bring arts to the homeless community - which is a big problem in San Diego and much of California).

I’ve seen many of these, as i’m sure many here also have. Usually its either all male “all star” or its co-ed which again is usually 80% men. As i listened to these great ladies rocking it from tune to tune, it struck me how tight and on point they were consistently. They put on a much better show than the typical all-star jam which i usually don’t like as it sounds like something between a hack fest and a cluster fuck of guys you can’t tell if they ever even know the song they are playing, much less are all playing the same song at the same time. As I drove home, i was thinking about why:

1. Women are better musicians
2. Women are more professional in their craft
3. They care more about their cause
4. They dedicated more time to self-study
5. They had better organization/“band” management
6. They actually rehearsed together more
7. Other?

Who dares to opine?

Side note: A lead guitarist for one of my bands is female and she took part in it (which is why i went by). She played on probably 30% of songs as they had another 4 or 5 guitarists who lead their bands and also are lead singers (hence a bit more “Alpha” in personality). She shredded her leads, from Benatar to Heart to this n that. Her rhythm parts were spot on in both chords/notes, technique and tone. #proudpal.


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Re: Rock Goddesses Rule [Re: MotiDave] #2998558 07/14/19 07:56 PM
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MAJUSCULE Offline
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Every woman on that stage last night has had to prove herself infinitely more times than any other man. Every time they step on stage, every time they show up to a soundcheck, a jam, an audition, whatever. They're battle-tested and they know how to bring it, because they unfortunately have to.

Cool show concept, by the way.

Last edited by MAJUSCULE; 07/14/19 07:57 PM.

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Re: Rock Goddesses Rule [Re: MotiDave] #2998562 07/14/19 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MotiDave
...
1. Women are better musicians
2. Women are more professional in their craft
3. They care more about their cause
4. They dedicated more time to self-study
5. They had better organization/“band” management
6. They actually rehearsed together more
7. Other?

Who dares to opine?

8. Most women have less testosterone than most men
9. Most women are better looking than most dudes
10. Women naturally generate an aura of family which involves management of people, energies, tasks, facilitation, motivation, etc.
11. Women are more effective because they don't make everything competitive and are instead more cooperative and in line with an event's objective whether it is a charitable event or a kid's birthday celebration at a pizza parlor.

Re: Rock Goddesses Rule [Re: MotiDave] #2998567 07/14/19 08:57 PM
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In our extended cluster of Bay Area jazz / funk / R&B musos, there are a fair number of female bass players, drummers, horn players. Not many guitar players, only a couple of KB players.

Majuscule is right on the money - our sisters have gone through so much sh*t just to be on stage, more so than any guy has to. Just played Thursday with a female drummer who was bringing the firepower - what a great solid player. It's still very much a fraternity in many ways (I don't mean that in a good way), but in my neck of the woods, the millennials are miles ahead of old guys in support, acceptance, and being gender-blind.

And I know it helps that I'm part of one of the most inclusive, welcoming, no-vibing community I've ever seen.


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Re: Rock Goddesses Rule [Re: MotiDave] #2998584 07/15/19 12:06 AM
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Totally agree. I grew up with two sisters, now the father of two grown daughters and have 3 granddaughters and one lonely grandson, haha. I've been woman centric all my life. Woman Centric? Is that a phrase? Whatever, I've been all for women's rights forever even including combat in the military. I'd hate to see a granddaughter go to some shithole overseas but if that's what she wants, then go for it girl. They're already proven, capable fighter pilots. I'm a UFC fan and Dana White famously said years ago, no way would he have women fighters. Look at it now. The ladies put on some of the very best fights ever and some of the highest PPV numbers and no, it's not just a bunch of guys wanting to oogle some babe in tights, these ladies bring it. My friends and I watch because they're excellent fighters with awesome technique. And I'm sure it's because they all know they have something to prove. Years ago women were not the biggest fight fans but now watch a UFC show. The audience is easily 30-40% women and they're yelling and screaming as much as anybody.

Bob


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Re: Rock Goddesses Rule [Re: MotiDave] #2998586 07/15/19 12:16 AM
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Another hand up in agreement here wave

Re: Rock Goddesses Rule [Re: MotiDave] #2998602 07/15/19 04:24 AM
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MotiDave Offline OP
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No guys, i think you’re all missing it. This wasn’t a brave gal fighting to be respected and accepted as a musician night. It wasnt that at all. they could easily have had 20 accomplished individual female musicians still go put on a crap all-star show. Thats what guys often do. The ladies outdid the prior male all star event because they prepared as a TEAM.

I know my guitarist went to 3 rehearsals and she only played on about 1/3 of the show. How often do guys go to 3 rehearsals for an all-star show? Lol ... cmon! You know the answer ... how often do we go to one is the real question.

The ladies had stage movements mapped for every song. Ladies knew when to enter and to where, when to exit and which way, etc etc. They broke down every song and designated specific parts including backup rhythms, 2nd and 3rd harmony parts, etc etc. Keys on this song, violin on that ... etc etc. Details, they prepared in detail.


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Re: Rock Goddesses Rule [Re: MotiDave] #2998605 07/15/19 05:18 AM
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My limited experience in dealing with both female and male musicians is that (in general) female musicians are more skilled and responsive communicators. This is notable in much of the behind the scenes stuff that goes into putting a band or performance together. The result of this is I have usually found women to be easier to deal with from an organisational and management point of view than men, in a musical context.

This said, I could easily provide isolated examples of male performers who are excellent communicators and female performers who are terrible at it.

I've not noticed that either gender has the upper hand when it comes to talent or the propensity to work hard.

Re: Rock Goddesses Rule [Re: MotiDave] #2998607 07/15/19 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by MotiDave
No guys, i think you’re all missing it. This wasn’t a brave gal fighting to be respected and accepted as a musician night. It wasnt that at all. they could easily have had 20 accomplished individual female musicians still go put on a crap all-star show.


I think what Majuscule said still applies.


Quote
The ladies outdid the prior male all star event because they prepared as a TEAM.

I know my guitarist went to 3 rehearsals and she only played on about 1/3 of the show. How often do guys go to 3 rehearsals for an all-star show? Lol ... cmon! You know the answer ... how often do we go to one is the real question.

The ladies had stage movements mapped for every song. Ladies knew when to enter and to where, when to exit and which way, etc etc. They broke down every song and designated specific parts including backup rhythms, 2nd and 3rd harmony parts, etc etc. Keys on this song, violin on that ... etc etc. Details, they prepared in detail.



I don't know that what you are describing has anything to do with gender except that in your specific example the ladies did a great job preparing. I think in any killer pro high level band or production all the details you list here will have been addressed.


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Re: Rock Goddesses Rule [Re: MotiDave] #2998609 07/15/19 06:55 AM
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zeronyne Offline
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The cause seems admirable, and I'm not doubting MotiDave's experience whatsoever, but since you asked, I will opine that no conclusion can be drawn AT ALL from your tiny sample set if you are trying in any way to say that your list applies to any group of people in general in any meaningful way. It's anecdotal, and it's important to acknowledge that if you are trying to draw some conclusion from the behavior or phenomenon you observed.

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION...not attacking anyone personally.

Last edited by zeronyne; 07/15/19 08:30 AM.

"For instance" is not proof.
Re: Rock Goddesses Rule [Re: zeronyne] #2998622 07/15/19 12:23 PM
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MotiDave Offline OP
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Originally Posted by zeronyne
The cause seems admirable, and I'm not doubting MotiDave's experience whatsoever, but since you asked, I will opine that no conclusion can be drawn AT ALL from your tiny sample set if you are trying in any way to say that your list applies to any group of people in general in any meaningful way. It's anecdotal, and it's important to acknowledge that if you are trying to draw some conclusion from the behavior or phenomenon you observed.

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION...not attacking anyone personally.


Probably the fairest response of all is not to draw too large of a conclusion from a sample of 1. Thx.


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Re: Rock Goddesses Rule [Re: MotiDave] #2998628 07/15/19 01:24 PM
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I'm very happy to be in a position where very few of my gigs are all men. And it's not just vocalists, I get to play with some great lady guitarists, drummers, and keyboard players. The more different backgrounds and experiences you have in the club, the more interesting the art becomes.

If I ever have kids, and they play music, I hope they have even more opportunity to learn from and bond with different people than I have.


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Re: Rock Goddesses Rule [Re: MotiDave] #2998693 07/15/19 07:57 PM
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Cool night. Any amazement that 'girls can play music good too' seems kind of outdated and condescending. Players are players. Plus the added factor of Eric's observation. Anyway, I saw that Michelle sang some, and she's fully bad-ass IMO.


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Re: Rock Goddesses Rule [Re: MotiDave] #2998722 07/15/19 10:28 PM
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"Women are better musicians".......I've played with people of both sexes that took me to school from note one, and people of both sexes who couldn't play their way out of a wet paper bag, so where is THIS going?

Re: Rock Goddesses Rule [Re: MAJUSCULE] #2998731 07/15/19 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by MAJUSCULE
Every woman on that stage last night has had to prove herself infinitely more times than any other man. Every time they step on stage, every time they show up to a soundcheck, a jam, an audition, whatever. They're battle-tested and they know how to bring it, because they unfortunately have to.
^ This.

You don't even really need to dive into (controversial) gender differences to understand why. In a male dominated genre in a male dominated world, women just need to fight twice as hard and have twice as much chops. I firmly believe it would be the same if the roles were reversed, regardless of biology. By the time you have to put up with that much bullshit you A) have to FUCKING LOVE your craft, and B) have to be the best you can be or you will get stepped on.

Seriously, I play in a pretty "liberal" place with supposedly very openminded values, but the moment the ladies are out of earshot, the misogynistic judgements start flowing. Usually that's when I head home.


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Re: Rock Goddesses Rule [Re: EricBarker] #2998753 07/16/19 04:51 AM
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I mostly like where Our friend Eric is coming from. I think it's inherently misogynistic to suggest any gender is better than another outside of obvious biological differences. I think the real key is that they worked harder because they were forced to fight against a male dominated industry. Anybody who worked that hard would win regardless of gender. That said, I am happy for their success and the reward for their hard work and hope it leads to some enlightenment and acknowledgement of more of our female peers....who are exactly that - our peers. I'm always uncomfortable when somebody bashes the "female singer" or the "mom" or the "girlfriend or wife" as if they are identified by their female association with the male band member. I have not admittedly had the experiences some of you have described, despite playing with a total of 4 female musicians. Maybe it's different in St. Louis. Maybe we're actually more progressive that the coasts. Or maybe I just look at them as an equal.


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Re: Rock Goddesses Rule [Re: MAJUSCULE] #2998761 07/16/19 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by MAJUSCULE
Every woman on that stage last night has had to prove herself infinitely more times than any other man. Every time they step on stage, every time they show up to a soundcheck, a jam, an audition, whatever. They're battle-tested and they know how to bring it, because they unfortunately have to.


As James said, "This is a man's world." And it's a damn shame that we still can't just listen to the music and enjoy it. There was a band that crossed our paths from time to time in the early Oughts, Cowboy Crush. The keyboard player, Becky Priest and I were friendly and I greatly enjoyed watching the band. Not because they were women but because they were fucking good. Well-rehearsed and ready to rock. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Becky_Priest They had one of those disembodied scrotums hanging from the trailer hitch of their tour bus. In this context it was completely appropriate and hilarious.


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