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Are They Real Bands, or Tribute Bands?


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I saw Foreigner a few months ago. Several years ago, I had seen Lou Gramm and Mick Jones inducted at the Songwriter's Hall of Fame evening in New York, backed by a Harlem church choir. Even though I wasn't a huge Foreigner fan, it was a moving and musical experience.

 

The recent incarnation had neither Jones or Gramm. According to the Mercury News: "Theres been a ton of turnover, with nearly 30 different musicians appearing in the lineup over the years. The only remaining original member is guitarist Mick Jones, although hes missed a number of shows in recent years due to health reasons. Singer Lou Gramm, arguably the biggest ingredient in Foreigners original sound, left the band in 2003. The rest of the band members are vocalist Kelly Hansen, bassist Jeff Pilson, guitarists Tom Gimbel and Bruce Watson, keyboardist Michael Bluestein and drummer Chris Frazier."

 

Sounds like a farce, right? But then you find out Pilson joined the band in 15 years ago, and Hansen, 14 years ago. Gimbel's been there since 1995, and Bluestein's been there since 2008.

 

Okay, so they've put some miles on and they're doing the same songs...but are they Foreigner? Or are they a really long-running Foreigner tribute band? Or is the reality that only the songs matter, it's all about the music, and as long as the band sounds like Foreigner and puts on a show, then by golly, who cares - because that's enough to keep people happy?

I was recently approached about doing a Mandrake reunion. I didn't want to do it - it's not the band unless all the original members are there, and with one of them being dead, that's a long shot. It never happened. "The past is gone, I'm sure it can take care of itself now," to quote one of the UK's better songwriters :)

 

But is that the right attitude? As mentioned in another thread, I saw Little River Band and much to my surprise, thought they were great - but they may have been specifically because it wasn't the original lineup :)

 

Who knows? Should these nostalgia bands call themselves "Sorta Mostly [name of band]"?

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...but are they Foreigner? Or are they a really long-running Foreigner tribute band?"
A fair question.

 

With no original band members, the latter probably makes more sense. Foreigner members with a 14 or 15 year tenure adds a little street cred. Historically, bands that reform as a Mk II version of themselves have at least one or two original members. The absence of an original band member makes it looks like a money-making scheme.

 

The original, mid-70s Foreigner lineup was best IMHO. Their first two albums were killer. Can still remember playing Tramontane when I was in a NY club band.

 

Steve Coscia

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I don't have a good sense for this. Some bands have been doing this forever, like the Ink Spots. At least one of the other vocal groups had one or more lawsuits because there are groups running around saying they're the vocal group based on some tenuous tie to the original. I can't recall if it was The Temptations, The Platters, or another I'm forgetting. I believe several states passed laws saying you couldn't call yourselves a group unless you had a certain percentage of key members still performing.

 

Is Journey Journey without Steve Perry?

 

Last I checked, there are two versions of Yes, the one with Steve Howe and the other that was previously known as Anderson Wakeman Rabin, though the latter seems to have wrapped it up.

 

The Who is down to Townsend and Daltrey.

 

Led Zeppelin has done some one-off gigs as LZ, but seems to not want to really go at it and tour without Bonzo behind the kit, even though his son Jason can pull it off. (This seems to mainly be Plant not wanting to do it.)

 

To me, I'm not sure it's Little Feat without Richie Hayward, though Richie approved of Gabe Ford as his replacement. When Billy Payne is on tour with the Doobie Brothers or not with them for whatever reason, the band is billed as "Funky Feat."

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

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Hey, I like the idea of considering them a "licensed" tribute band. It is the same with Three Dog Night. Some friends went to see them last year. I warned them that there were only two original members and the two singers who sang the huge majority of hits was no longer with the band. They would have been better off going to the free concert at the state fair and watching Chuck Negron perform with the 60's and 70's supergroup that was appearing there. But, they went, they enjoyed it, they chose to pretend that it was the real band. Who am I to tell them that they are not allowed to enjoy themselves at the concert. It would be like going to a movie and telling the person with you "but it is not real".

 

But, there is another factor in this. Not everyone is Gladys Knight with a sweet voice at the golden age. There are way too many singers in their 60's trying to perform like they did at 20 and failing miserably. I remember watching Blondie on TV 20 years ago and thinking "doesn't she realize how bad she sounds?" Honestly, I think most of them are in total denial. So that brings me to the dilemma. Would I rather see a totally original band with failing chops and horrible vocals, a partial band with two insignificant members and enough young guns to make the band sound good, or a totally manufactured tribute band that can nail it. After buying way too many concert DVD's of bands performing in their 60's and struggling, give me a good tribute band.

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It's a good point.

For instance would Jethro Tull be Tull without Ian Anderson and Martin Barre?

Just possibly without Martin, but without Ian puffing and grunting into his flute, especially with songs like Locomotive Breath, it just wouldn't be Tull. IMHO.

Are there any Tull tribute bands?

Can anybody else conquer the flute the way he does?

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I don't think a hard and fast taxonomy applies. I think it's purely personal. I have an acquaintance who is in Heart by Heart, which has two founding members of Heart in it. What would you call that? Obviously, they don't own the name, but as a band (not a recording entity), they are more Heart than the current version of Foreigner is Foreigner.

 

A good friend of mine just became the lead singer of Paul Revere's Raiders, which used to have the original guys. I don't know if ANY of them are original at this point, but they have quite a following. And to add to the murkiness, they do quite a few non-Raiders covers.

 

So I think it's on a spectrum from cover band to actual band, and I'm not sure, apart from arbitrary distinction, if it makes any real difference. Vibe has a lot to do with it. I think it really points out that band identity in the live context is purely branding, not musical integrity. I mean, they're not mutually exclusive, but they certainly are not intertwined.

"For instance" is not proof.

 

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I don't think a hard and fast taxonomy applies. I think it's purely personal.

 

seems to be based on reading all the posts just now.

 

Hey Joe, Funky Feat is playing here in DC early August if you want to fly up and catch them with me.

 

:nopity:
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Led Zeppelin has done some one-off gigs as LZ, but seems to not want to really go at it and tour without Bonzo behind the kit, even though his son Jason can pull it off. (This seems to mainly be Plant not wanting to do it.)

 

Your point is well taken. I sometimes prefer to see older bands with substitutes that are more technically proficient or "more" like the record. I was going to reference Journey, but Steve Perry has always sounded pretty damn good when I used to see him, better than the replacements they've had.

 

Would you rather see Jimmy Page with JPJ and a very technical singer and drummer or would you rather see Plant and JPJ with a very technical guitar player and drummer?

 

 

 

"For instance" is not proof.

 

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I think about the current incarnation of Kansas. Yeah, Phil Ehart and Rich Williams are there but still basically playing Kerry Livgren's songs after he's been gone for nearly 40 years. But the current lineup with the new singer is definitely more enjoyable than Kansas with Steve Walsh in the 90s, those were painful years. Got to see them in 2008 after Walsh got sober and he was much better. Is it Kansas without Kerry Livgren, Steve Walsh, Robbie Steinhart and Dave Hope? Billy Greer's been the bassist for 35 years now, 3 times longer than Dave Hope. Hard to saw where the tribute line gets crossed. Similar to what Yes is although they had so many lineup changes even in their "classic" years it's enough to make 2-3 versions of "legitimate" Yes (as long as Jon Anderson is singing of course).

 

I got the privilege of seeing Ike Willis with Project Object perform Joe's Garage at the Lions Den in NYC in the 90s. It was an awesome experience and Zappa had never performed it in entirety. Definitely on the other side of the tribute line, but having the original "Joe" perform his part certainly brought something that could never be duplicated.

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Hey, I like the idea of considering them a "licensed" tribute band. [snip]...Would I rather see a totally original band with failing chops and horrible vocals, a partial band with two insignificant members and enough young guns to make the band sound good, or a totally manufactured tribute band that can nail it. After buying way too many concert DVD's of bands performing in their 60's and struggling, give me a good tribute band.

 

There are lot of interesting comments in this thread, but let me zero in on the "licensed band" thing. That makes a lot of sense. I believe in the case of Foreigner, Mick Jones called the shots on who got hired, so you can legitimately claim that the current version of Foreigner fits his vision - licensing would take that one step further. For example, if some (or all) original members don't want to tour, have health issues, or whatever, they could license the name, train the musicians, and put their stamp of approval on a tribute band. So people attending the concert would at least know they were seeing a band that met the approval of the original band.

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I saw Foreigner a few months ago.

 

I saw them also recently, I believe it was late last year. Mick Jones was with them and they billed it as having a symphony orchestra backing them. The band was great and it all sounded real good although the symphony was kind of buried on stage behind them and none of those players seemed to be "featured" or took any solos, in fact, they seemed hard to hear and almost appeared to be an afterthought.

 

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Okay, so they've put some miles on and they're doing the same songs...but are they Foreigner? Or are they a really long-running Foreigner tribute band? Or is the reality that only the songs matter, it's all about the music, and as long as the band sounds like Foreigner and puts on a show, then by golly, who cares - because that's enough to keep people happy?

To use quite a different example, the Count Basie Orchestra still tours. I haven't seen them in a long time, but I would - and it would definitely be all about the music!

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Lots of bands in my world go on forever even though there are no longer any original members. The Seldom Scene is a good example. The current band plays most of the songs that the original band was particularly well known for as well as some new songs, and and some old songs that the band never got around to doing. In bluegrass music, there isn't the compulsion to write a whole album's worth of new songs when it's time to go into the studio.

 

I think there's still a Persuasions, too, though I'm not sure if the current edition does Greatful Dead songs.

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I

 

Last I checked, there are two versions of Yes, the one with Steve Howe and the other that was previously known as Anderson Wakeman Rabin, though the latter seems to have wrapped it up.

 

Yes was the first band I thought of when I started reading this thread.

 

I also just thought of Sun Ra Arkestra, which has been led by Marshall Allen since the passing of Sun Ra.

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Let me give you my perspective from being on the inside one of these bands. Basically there are two of us (out of four) left from the original band in the 60s. There were the remaining 3 of us, but our guitarist is in pretty poor health and it keeps him from traveling to shows. We get hassled about being a cover band by promoters most probably as our lead singer and most famous member of the group passed away about 10 years ago. He was still performing up to the night before he died. But frankly, he was a shadow of what he was in the day. Funny though, as he actually hand picked his own replacement about 8 years before he died.

 

So there was a documentary movie made about us a few years ago and we started getting offers. Up until that point we really hadnt seen each other for 40 years. So what do we have? Well the guy that sang the songs isnt there, but most of the guys that played the music are. And since were not gonna have a dead guy singing, its as close as we can get. Most of the fans probably dont know our names but they do know the words to all the songs. So this is as close as anyone is gonna get to what our 60s shows sounded like. Funny though ... I have to remember to play drums using my 60s chops and try to refrain from playing with more modern chops.

 

We often play with other survivors from the 60s and none of the bands still have all their original members still living. Musicians die young :) (I hope not)

 

So it is what it is. I dont think anyone that catches our show walks away disappointed. We have a book of 5 albums of material and we dont play anything new as no one really comes to here anything they didnt already know from the past. Besides since no one actually buys records anymore its not like were gonna get another gold record :).

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Thanks for the compliment, Craig :)

 

Bands, like perishable food, should be labelled with a sell-by date

 

The Beatles did it correctly - broke up at the right time and never re-formed. Perfect

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Hey, I like the idea of considering them a "licensed" tribute band. [snip]...Would I rather see a totally original band with failing chops and horrible vocals, a partial band with two insignificant members and enough young guns to make the band sound good, or a totally manufactured tribute band that can nail it. After buying way too many concert DVD's of bands performing in their 60's and struggling, give me a good tribute band.

 

There are lot of interesting comments in this thread, but let me zero in on the "licensed band" thing. That makes a lot of sense. I believe in the case of Foreigner, Mick Jones called the shots on who got hired, so you can legitimately claim that the current version of Foreigner fits his vision - licensing would take that one step further. For example, if some (or all) original members don't want to tour, have health issues, or whatever, they could license the name, train the musicians, and put their stamp of approval on a tribute band. So people attending the concert would at least know they were seeing a band that met the approval of the original band.

I know that Journey/Neal Schon is very particular about how tribute bands brand themselves. He wants to make sure that the tribute bands aren't making it easy for people to think it might actually be Journey playing, I think. I know the keyboard player for the Journey tribute based in Dallas, he's active on KC here and I just saw them last night, and he could give further details.

 

IIRC, when Chris Squire was alive, he supposedly held the rights to the name Yes but after he passed and the two subsequent sides had their dispute, that was claimed to not be so, so I don't know.

 

Hey Joe, Funky Feat is playing here in DC early August if you want to fly up and catch them with me.

Thanks, Dave!

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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This went through my head a couple of weeks ago. I got an email advertising a show at the Iridium: Ten Years After performing their entire set from Woodstock- a 50 year celebration. But Alvin Lee died in 2013. A couple of original members are still with the band, and I would imagine some people might not realize Alvin is gone.
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Let me give you my perspective from being on the inside one of these bands.

 

Can you say which one it was...or will someone sue you? :)

 

So it is what it is. I dont think anyone that catches our show walks away disappointed.

 

And there you have it. The best reason for tribute/nostalgia bands to exist.

 

We have a book of 5 albums of material and we dont play anything new as no one really comes to here anything they didnt already know from the past.

 

OTOH...I think that's a problem with audiences, not the bands. But maybe the premise is not always correct. In reference to LRB, the audience gave the new material (two new songs) a really great response. One woman said "I never liked them much, but the new songs are really good." However, that may have had something to do with the way they were introduced. The bandleader said he was glad people enjoyed the memories, and hoped the new songs would create new memories for people years from now. So he made it really clear they were making a departure from the norm, and I think people were willing to give them some slack...if they didn't like it, the band would get back to the hits.

 

 

 

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Bands, like perishable food, should be labelled with a sell-by date

 

The Beatles did it correctly - broke up at the right time and never re-formed. Perfect

 

I respect what Led Zeppelin did, too. It would not be the same band without John Bonham (sorry Jason Bonham). They did a couple one-offs (IIRC for charity?) and left it at that. Robert Plant could make a fortune if they toured again, and the fact that he doesn't take the bait is very cool.

 

I tend to agree that music has its time and place, and then it's time to move on. But, I also think that some groups are more like musical collectives, with interchangeable parts. For example, I don't think Pink Floyd ever equaled the insane levels of creativity they had when Syd Barrett was the bandleader. Yet they continued on, and forged a different sound that was successful in its own right, for its own reasons. I've also seen in interviews where the members of Pink Floyd have said that the group isn't about them, there's this Pink Floyd thing that's bigger than any of them. With that kind of attitude, if even one of the original members put together a Pink Floyd, I tend to think the object would be to have the band fit within the world Pink Floyd represents.

 

Maybe in addition to licensing, version numbers would be good to indicate different lineups...then you'd know where along the career curve Foreigner 7.2 fell :)

 

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Let me give you my perspective from being on the inside one of these bands.

 

Can you say which one it was...or will someone sue you?

 

 

 

I might have to sue myself :)

 

Www.facebook.com/seedsbandofficial

 

OMG!! MEGA RESPECT! That's so cool.

 

Who from that era doesn't remember "Pushin' Too Hard"?!? The Seeds were the prototype for many bands to come. And given that you joined in 1968, hell, that qualifies in my book as an original member. The things you learn about people on the internet...wow.

 

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I just joined this forum and haven't the time to read all the posts (I'll catch up later) so please forgive me if I'm repeating already covered ground.

 

IMO when all the famous recording members or even just the recording soloists are gone, they have become a tribute band.

 

If Paul McCartney and Ringo Starr hired a couple of people to replace John Lennon and George Harrison, would you still call them The Beatles?

 

If you go to see an Elvis Presley or Frank Sinatra impersonator can you call them the real Elvis Presley or Frank Sinatra?

 

I was playing in a club and 'coming soon' was Neil Zirconium - a Neil Diamond clone. Nobody thinks he is the real deal Neil.

 

None of these 'impersonators' get the money, ticket prices, or the crowds that the tribute bands calling themselves the real thing do. So why should a tourning group with no original members calling themselves the original charge the big bucks? (Nice work if you can get it?)

 

I remember when I was a kid, a lot of the "big bands" of the 1940s like Glenn Miller, Dorsey Brothers, and so on were touring without the deceased band leaders. The older musicians at the time called them "Ghost Bands". Pretty much what we call "Tribute Bands".

 

When I was working with Motown there were even multiples of the recording bands touring at the same time. After that I worked with a singer who was in one of the four touring bands called "The Platters". And what about "The Clovers", "The Ink Spots", and others. Looking at their google list of members reads like a shopping list.

 

I friend of mine went to see "The Kingston Trio" at a local theater a year or so ago. I googled them and found all the original members are deceased. I didn't have the heart to tell my friend that it was a Tribute Band.

 

When I was growing up, before EDM, it was important for us to sound like the hit makers of the day. When we did a Beatles song, we were expected to sound like The Beatles. When we did a Rolling Stones song we were expected to sound like The Stones. When we did a Jethro Tull song we were supposed to sound like Tull. Same for Beach Boys, Kingsmen, Miracles, Animals, Sly/Family Stone, Earth/Wind/Fire, and solo acts like Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye, Neil Diamond, and anybody else who had a top40 hit. So were we cover bands or multi-tribute bands?

 

I have a buddy in an "Eagles" tribute band. I joked around and told him that he had it easy, only having to imitate one band. He grew up with me so he knew exactly what I meant.

 

So IMHO if the original "star members" of the band aren't there, it's a tribute band. Of course if I was in one of those star tribute bands and making the big bucks, I might have a different opinion. ;)

 

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Hi Bob, welcome to MPN! I've seen you around on the BIAB groups.

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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Glad you finally got here, Bob.

 

There's a different between impresonators, tribute bands, and members of dissolved bands hiring musicians to tour or record with them.

 

An impersonator is just that, a sound-alike, look-sorta-alike, who does all the songs as closely as possible to the original, and everyone who attends the show knows it.

 

A tribute band is similar, though often less look-alike unless it's a Kiss tribute band, and it works like a band - the same people all the time (allowing for some turnover), the same instruments, vocals, and arrangements as the original.

 

After The Beatles dissolved, Paul formed Wings and didn't call it The Beatles, and they did Wings songs. And now he tours under his own name with a reasonably stable band, and that's not The Beatles either.

 

At least that's how I see it. In a previous post, I mentioned the bluegrass band The Seldom Scene, They formed and played their first gigs as a band in 1971, and the last original member left in 2018. But the band still exists, the name exists (there's a business arrangement) and they still play the hits as well as new music. On the other hand, there was a Flatt and Scruggs tribute band, the Earls of Leicester (that's pronounced "Lester" in England), made up of contemporary bluegrass heavyweights, recreating the classic songs of Lester and Earl. They made one record, and get together to play festivals. They're a tribute, but I wouldn't really call them a band.

 

At least that's how I see it all.

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To me, a tribute band is a group of guys with no ties to the original band who get together to basically form a cover band recreating the original artist.

 

Lots of bands have members come and go over time. I don't think they necessarily have to have any of the members who originally formed the band, if the progression occurred naturally over time.

 

However, if the band broke up, then got back together some time later for a reunion, then pretty much by definition, there would have to be at LEAST one member of the band, or else it goes back to my first definition of a Tribute band. I would also argue in that case, that the original member would need to be significant in some way - one of the songwriters, lead singer, somehow iconic on their instrument, etc.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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So IMHO if the original "star members" of the band aren't there, it's a tribute band.

 

Great to see you here, Dr. Norton!

 

Where it gets complicated is if some of the original members are there, and the others are dead or not interested...particularly if the "real" members get to choose the additional band members, and thus set the vision for the group.

 

And what about classical music? All symphony orchestra are "tribute bands" at this point :) Or you can say the music Beethoven wrote is immortal, and that the music is of greater importance than the artist who left that music behind. People still want to hear Beethoven's music. Maybe it is just "all about the music"...

 

.

 

 

 

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