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Anyone using duplicate effects?


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Here's the idea - I perform in two different acts; one solo, as The Winston Psmith Project, one in the Synth-&-Guitar duo Novparolo. The 21st Century Pedalboard is my mainstay for my solo work, but I've been working with a much more compact FX-&-Guitar Synth rig for Novparolo; one small Guitar Synth (the GR-20), and one each from the Big 3, OD, Mod & Delay.

 

I've thought of getting a 2nd Malekko 616 Analog Delay and a 2nd Keeley Seafoam Chorus for my Novparolo pedalboard, so I won't have to swap out pedals from the bigger board. It seems like a good idea, at not a lot of added expense, and I like to have back-ups for anything I depend on for live shows, thus two Synth Access Guitars, two nearly identical SG's, you get the idea. I know some folks collect different model & era Tube Screamers or Big Muffs; DOD Envelope Filters are another favorite for collectors. I'm just looking at getting copies of 2 pedals I already have, for ease of use.

 

Sure, there are other Analog Delays, and plenty of Chorus pedals out there to choose from, but I really like how these two have worked with my current sound profile, and there are always used ones nearby for low $$$; I could get both for right about what one new Carbon Copy would cost me.

 

It's just a thought for now, but wanted to get some feedback from the Forum, see what others think. While performing isn't what I do for a living - I'd be broke, at best - it's a big part of my life, and something I put a lot of effort and attention into. We (Novparolo) have a string of shows coming up, so I'd like to start pulling this together soon.

 

Thanks for reading this, now let me hear what you think.

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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I only have a couple of duplicates in the myriad pieces of gear that I own. Why? Because I dont gig, I can indulge my whims without an eye towards practicality. So my gear arsenal looks like it was assembled by a mutant magpie.

 

But in your situation, buying duplicates is EXACTLY what I would do if I knew theyd do what I needed. Having grab & go rigs makes sense. Less stressful.

 

If nothing else, the duplicates become backups for your other rigs.

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ

 

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

 

http://murphysmusictx.com/

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Ah, brother, many thanks; I knew you'd hear me, at least.

 

"Grab-and-go" is exactly the phrase I had in mind. That was the original inspiration behind my switching over to MFX - that, and the aspiration to become, as Fripp described it, a "small, mobile, intelligent unit." Having gone back to individual pedals - there's nothing wrong with the magpie approach, BTW - I still find that having one pedalboard, packed & ready, makes my life simpler. I already have a Pedaltrain 1 for Novparolo, that can easily fit the GR-20 and four, maybe five, compact pedals, like the Seafoam, but for now, I've been swapping pedals in and out, as needed, for different shows.

 

Bev and I have a dense sound as it is, so my Guitar sound needs to stand on its own, without being overpowering. In this case, the "Less is More" mind-set works: some OD for presence, Modulation for texture, and Delay to fill out the sound, with everything in moderation. We have a bunch of dates lined up in the next few months, so setting up a dedicated Novparolo pedalboard will save me a good deal of time and effort, and possibly aggravation, between now and the holiday season. In any case, I won't likely be going gear shopping until sometime next week - still have work to catch up on this week - but I may go and grab them both when I can.

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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You might even look into an MFX as a backup. Just a thought.

 

They may not be as flexible or varied as discrete pedals, but they have far fewer points of failure- cables, power supply cords, jacks, switches, etc.- than a traditional pedalboard.

 

That would translate into a quick plug & play sub if something goes out, instead of having to search for exactly what went wrong.

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ

 

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

 

http://murphysmusictx.com/

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I used to run two compressors. An MXR Comp and a MXR Dyna Comp in front of a Boss Distortion and a Boss Blues Driver. I never ran the comps together as they got in each others way. But, they both provided some interesting boost, sustain and tone when working with either of the Boss OD Pedals. Guys would ask me why do you run two compressors? And I would give them a demo of the variations I could get using them in-line but individually with the other two Boss Pedals. I did not care for the Dyna Comp until I ran it in front of either of the Boss OD's...the MXR comp worked great as a clean boost as well. I have been playing without a compressor for many years now, but this year I bought a replacement Boss CP 1x to use as a clean boost and it works great. It's the only pedal I'm using now, so it's an easy grab and go! :cool:
Take care, Larryz
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If I were gigging regularly, I'd have more than one pedalboard; at the very least, one for the input of the amp, and another for the amp's effects-loop. Possibly a smaller, simpler "grab and go" 'board for less involved situations like jams or such.

 

I'd enjoy having two or three Strymon El Capistans, for different uses: one for my 'standard' echo effects, with a "Favorite" pre-set saved; one for moody, character-laden looping; and another on a stand for easy hands-on manipulation a la Jimmy Page, Bauhaus, and Belew/Crimson forrays. Mmmmmaaayybee a Catalinbread Belle Epoch Deluxe for some o' dat, probably in front of the amp's input, possibly on a stand, too...

 

I already have too many octave-fuzzes, and will surely get more. I really have a thing for those... I'll probably always have at least two on a 'board at a time, such as my Foxrox Octron and my Fulltone Octafuzz, as they each do different takes on octave-fuzz (both fOXX Tone Machine fashioned octave-up and Mu-Tron Octave-Divider type octave-down combined along with a "Direct" blend, and vintage Octavia stylee, respectively).

 

I wouldn't use a flanger very often, but when I do, I really like particularly excellent examples of the effect, and many of the various classic flavors; so I have one fairly hifalutin specimen, an original vintage 1979 MXR M-117 Flanger, and would enjoy collecting a few other flangers like a vintage EH Electric Mistress, 1980's Arion Stereo Flanger, a vintage '80s TC Electronic Stereo Chorus/Flanger " + Pitch Modulator" :D , and even a Foxrox TZF2 and/or Strymon Deco for "through zero" studio tape-style flanging. The Deco also does a number of other cool studio tape machine effects, as well... I can get carried away; see octave-fuzzes, above...

 

Not exactly a 'duplicate', but I have both a FANTASTIC VFE BumbleBee 'swell' pedal, and a very fine Rockman RV-1 active/optical Volume Pedal (Michalik design/Czech republic, nothing to do with Tom Scholz' co. or products). They overlap a little in what they do- they both do 'volume' duties and effects- but offer different options of just how much and what they each can do.

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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You know, Ive seen a fair number of pedalboard rundown type articles, but never one for a guitarist who is in multiple bands covering more than one style.

 

I would imagine they either have dedicated pedalboards for each group or high end MFX units. Maybe both.

 

I still want to go the former route, more or less, by having dedicated boards for specific genres. ...but that would require focus, thought and $$$ that I cant seem to muster simultaneously. :laugh:

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ

 

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

 

http://murphysmusictx.com/

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+1 Caevan, on having certain pedals on a stand. Makes it easy to tweek them on the fly without having to bend over. A little difficult to kick them in and out, but works well if they are left on the whole time...and can still be used with the floor units. When testing out a new pedal, I like to put it on the stand and experiment with all the knob and toggle switch adjustment sounds before they go on the floor :cool:

 

+1 Danny, on MFX units, makes it easy to avoid buying duplicates as each setting for each pedal can be saved to 99 pre-set patches with different amp models, speakers, etc., and put in different banks. Plus you can switch to a loop and combine your individual favorite stomp boxes that just can't be duplicated on the MFX. You can leave the amp home and go direct to the PA with noise gates, ground lift, left and right XLR's or 1/4" for two channel adjustments. Lots of whistles and bells... :cool:

Take care, Larryz
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All good thoughts, friends. I had prepared a MUCH longer response, but let me condense it.

 

One funny thing is that you're repeating many of my own arguments in favor of using MFX live, convenience, fewer connections, swap rigs with a toe tap, no Amp to haul, all of which are still true, but the sounds have grown completely stale for me, and that's after designing all my own sounds from the ground up. I also find the what they offer in consistency, you sacrifice in spontaneity. You can't suddenly decide to kick on the Muff Fuzz model in your Arena Rock patch, if you've programmed it with the Guv'nor OD model. There are other limits I've gotten tired of, without elaborating here. While I haven't gotten to the point where I'm ready to trade them in yet, I've dedicated the GT-10 for use with the new 7-string, and set the others aside.

 

I am playing two different styles of Music, in this case. Novparolo's Music is groove-oriented improvised Electronica, where my job is to enhance and embellish, while adding some element of melody. I don't need to over-process my Guitar sound for it to stand out; rather, the reverse is true. While a dry signal would sound lifeless, a little 'thickener' is all I need.

 

My own sound is more Experimentalist than Electronica, and I'm finding pedals that fit my sound better, even if it takes a bit more work to have them all get along.

 

As far as compactness and convenience, I can fit the GR-20 Guitar Synth on one of my Pedaltrain 1's, along with 4 compact pedals, which is as compact a rig as I can haul; one HSC for the pedalboard, one HSC for my Guitar, a shoulder bag with some cables and a power strip. The Guitar pedals go in the Guitar S/R Loop on the GR-20, the Stereo Out jacks from the GR-20 go to FOH, or to a small sub-mixer for Bev and I, and we're done. If I do need to bring the sub-mixer, it has its own padded bag that fits in the same bag with the cables & power strip. I tell people that I learned how to pack gear from my maiden aunt, Mary Poppins . . .

 

If I were in a working band, playing more or less the same set list, night after night, and making $$$ at it, I'd probably have two matching state-of-the-art MFX, with all my sounds stored in both, and all the sounds backed up on a thumb drive, so if one crashed, I'd pull out the other, and if both of them crashed, I'd buy a third and dump the sounds into it. No working mechanic owns just one wrench, after all . . . In my case, while I have more than one wrench, so to speak, I don't need them all for every job, but it wouldn't hurt to have duplicates of the ones I use most often.

 

Sideways thought - On-Stage stands made a pedalboard tray(?), the GPB4000, that I'd seen online, but apparently it's been discontinued. It was made to fit on top of a folding Keyboard stand. A few places still seem to stock it, if anyone's interested. Must not have been popular, it wasn't out for long.

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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I run multiple GE7s if that counts. One to shape the base tone. The second one for a lead boost. I have ran multiple TS808 type pedals but one had a clean blend which gives it a different character.

"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

 

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!

So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

 

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Some thoughts:

 

1) If youre looking for good, compact pedals, Wren & Cuff products are as good as anyones.

 

1a) if you use Wahs...I cant speak to its actual quality, but the Plutoneium Chi Wah Wah is as small a Wah as Ive seen.

 

2) Im still thinking MFX as backup/supplement, not replacement. One really good one could probably handle emulations for most of your settings for both of your discrete pedalboards.

 

3) I like the idea of the keyboard stand mount or even a rack of some kind- your experiences with real-deal synth setups might make that a fairly natural arrangement for you. Especially if you have big feet & tiny pedals. ;)

 

4) and reiterating: yes, use duplicates you know. Familiarity breeds comfort. Comfort breeds relaxation. Relaxation means fewer barriers between your conscious and unconscious during performance.

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ

 

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

 

http://murphysmusictx.com/

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@CEB - I know of players using EQ's before and after OD/Distortion pedals, for tone contouring, and I've seen the dual-OD configuration, as well.

 

@Dannyalcatraz - I've definitely been seeking out compact pedals, as opposed to mid-sized or larger, and there's a Wren & Cuff Russian Muff Clone (Tall Font) up the street, but I'm more than covered for Fuzz, right now.

 

As deep as I've gone into my various MFX, some of the pedals I've come into lately do things that I just can't emulate with the MFX, which is why I've converted, yet again. It may be that I eventually do something like what Larryz suggests, using some of my more exotic pedal FX in the S/R loop of my MFX; I'd already done that to create patches for the Mel9 and the MIKU Stomp. Still, the MFX themselves really won't give me the sounds I'm getting from the current pedal array.

 

I also like the idea of a compact, convenient "Standing desk" sort of rig, and I've been thinking about incorporating some of my more compact hardware Synths into my set-up.

 

Finally, having a couple of duplicate pedals would make it very easy to switch rigs, without worrying about switching settings on everything. Open the case, plug in, everything's ready to go.

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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The W&C Tall Font is a nice fuzz. And I understand priorities & budgets, but IMHO, unless youre a bear, NOBODY is covered for fuzz! :D. Seriously, if I dont have a dozen, I dont have any: an EHX Russian plus at least 2 pedals inspired by it, a couple ARC Effects. 2 Magnetic Effects, a SolidgoldFX, 2 ThorpyFX, 2 Black Arts Toneworks, Wren & Cuff, Catalinbreads, Earthquakers...

 

You might dig this one for future fun...

https://www.wrenandcuff.com/white-elk-small-foot

 

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ

 

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

 

http://murphysmusictx.com/

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Right now, I have a NYC Big Muff, a Voodoo Lab Bosstone, a Mojo Hand Iron Bell, a Fuzzhugger Algal Bloom V2, an Acoustic Imaginearing Quantum Drive, the Subdecay Harmonic Antagonizer, and a truly nasty little box, the Dano Grilled Cheese, among other OD & Distortion pedals. If I didn't already have the Iron Bell, I'd probably grab the Tall Font. I was also checking out a Devi Ever Hyperion, which is clearly another Russian Muff clone, it's even the same green as the Tall Font. Side-by-side, on a dark stage, I'd have a hard time telling them apart, at least by sight.

 

Fuzz was my first love, in terms of Guitar pedals. I bought my first Big Muff at Manny's, back when I was still living in NYC (1972/73?), and Manny's was just a subway ride away. The one I have now was a birthday present from my wife, some years ago, who knew how much I loved that sound.

 

Other than the Seafoam Chorus and the 616 Delay, I've been stalking a used Catalinbread Heliotrope (Fuzz/Ring Mod/Octave/God-knows-what), and a Malekko Scrutator (Bit Crusher), any of which would take precedence over another Fuzz, at least for now. Don't get me wrong, Fuzz was my first love, in terms of Guitar pedals, but I'm very happy with the Fuzzes I have, while I don't have anything quite like either the Heliotrope nor the Scrutator.

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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Nice artwork on all of those pedals, but damn, they're not cheap!

 

I have to wonder if the double Werewolf isn't a version of the Wolf Computer?

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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Now, I liked my HomeBrew Electronics ComPressor Retro- aka the HBE CPR, and a gift from a friend- so much that when I saw a GREAT deal on one with an additional "Attack" control, I bought that one, two, ehrr, too. I have no intention of selling either one! They're fantastic, just magic, with a Tele, and quite damned excellent with Strat-style single-coils, and pretty nice with P-90's. Alright but not incredible with humbuckers- go directly to optical-circuit based compressor pedals to squeeze double-coils, IMHO.

 

I liked the Boost side of my Fulltone Full-Drive 3 so much that I bought a Fulltone 2B ("Tubey"), which is the same clean-boost in a single free-standing pedal. The 2B will be a resident of the pedalboard, while the F-D 3 might hang in the wings for specialty needs, or I might just cozy up with it more and more in time and make it an addition to the neighborhood, as well- I don't have a lot of frequent use for a Tube Screamer stylee, but when I do, the F-D 3 is excellent and extremely versatile.

 

If I were gigging regularly, I could even see having one 2B for big LOUD boost and overdriving purposes, particularly for slamming the input of a tube-amp, and having another one for subtler massagin' 'n' squeezin' squish that's somewhat like a compressor, but not. I suppose that I could just reach down and hastily adjust its two controls, but...

 

I think that everyone could benefit from the 2B and they're CHEAP! Especially as "Blem" specimens, available brand-new/full-warranty/free shipping direct from Fulltone. Perhaps the best buffer/clean-boost/limiter out there!

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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@Caevan - You've spoken highly of Fulltone gear before, and I often see used Full-Drive's (2's & 3's), Fat-Boost 3's, & OCD's for reasonable, even blow-out prices. Worth a thought. Send me a PM, if you would, and tell me more. I still need a mid-gain OD.

 

The only pedal effects I tend to double up on are Delays and Dirt boxes, and both of those are just into double digits (11 & 12, respectively) without any duplicates among them; I even traded in a Delay and a Distortion last week, along with some other pedals, so it was 12 & 13 before that. (Yes, I really do get rid of gear I'm no longer using.) I'm down to one of pretty much anything else I have, except Expression Pedals. Those things tend to proliferate.

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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ThorpyFX pedals arent cheap, but you know the price is warranted.

 

The Peacekeeper Low/Mid OD

[video:youtube]

 

The Gunshot Mid/High OD

[video:youtube]

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ

 

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

 

http://murphysmusictx.com/

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@Dannyalcatraz - Nice work, but at nearly $300 for an OD pedal, I probably won't be adding a new one of these anytime soon. OTOH, if I see a used one nearby at a reasonable price, I'll be sure to plug in and try it out. I am looking for a mid-gain OD.

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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The ThorpyFX Ive bought in the past were usually under $200, but it was a year + ago. Plus theres all that Brexit chaos. Even with the pounds value in flux, prices may have gone up if his supply costs have risen.

 

Still, if I somehow lost or broke one, I might have to wait, but I wouldnt blink at replacing it. So. Much. Control.

Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: âNinety percent of everything is crapâ

 

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

 

http://murphysmusictx.com/

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Someday when I'm rich I'm getting the dual silicon Sasquatch fuzz.

www.tortugaeffects.com

 

surfergirl- Living in Hawaii, do you play, or are you likely to be playing, any places where and when it might get pretty warm, even hot? Outdoor gigs with lots of sunshine?

 

If so, a silicon-transistor fuzz is a good choice over a germanium-transistor fuzz (and forgive me if you already knew this) when and where temperatures rise. Germanium-transistors often don't behave cooperatively when they get hot and bothered. Silicon transistors don't seem to care much either way. Now, germanium diodes- as opposed to transistors- aren't terribly finicky about the fahrenheit, either, any more than silicon diodes, as far as I know.

 

I believe that only one of my fuzzes uses germanium transistors, and if conditions ever dictate that I need to switch to one that uses silicon transistors, or diodes of either type, I've got that covered ;) , essentially with "duplicate effects"- or, at least, multiple fuzzes to choose from. I haven't had a full-on ge-trans fuzz long enough for it to have been tried in the Sun's heat- yet...

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Someday when I'm rich I'm getting the dual silicon Sasquatch fuzz.

www.tortugaeffects.com

 

surfergirl- Living in Hawaii, do you play, or are you likely to be playing, any places where and when it might get pretty warm, even hot? Outdoor gigs with lots of sunshine?

 

If so, a silicon-transistor fuzz is a good choice over a germanium-transistor fuzz (and forgive me if you already knew this) when and where temperatures rise. Germanium-transistors often don't behave cooperatively when they get hot and bothered. Silicon transistors don't seem to care much either way. Now, germanium diodes- as opposed to transistors- aren't terribly finicky about the fahrenheit, either, any more than silicon diodes, as far as I know.

 

I believe that only one of my fuzzes uses germanium transistors, and if conditions ever dictate that I need to switch to one that uses silicon transistors, or diodes of either type, I've got that covered ;) , essentially with "duplicate effects"- or, at least, multiple fuzzes to choose from. I haven't had a full-on ge-trans fuzz long enough for it to have been tried in the Sun's heat- yet...

 

I was just going to ask about that on the fuzz thread when I saw this. Mostly outdoors, maybe 70 to 30 night to day. That is the reason I went for the silicon version. It's hot here at night also, 10pm now and it's about 80.

Jenny S.
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Someday when I'm rich I'm getting the dual silicon Sasquatch fuzz.

www.tortugaeffects.com

 

surfergirl- Living in Hawaii, do you play, or are you likely to be playing, any places where and when it might get pretty warm, even hot? Outdoor gigs with lots of sunshine?

 

If so, a silicon-transistor fuzz is a good choice over a germanium-transistor fuzz (and forgive me if you already knew this) when and where temperatures rise. Germanium-transistors often don't behave cooperatively when they get hot and bothered. Silicon transistors don't seem to care much either way. Now, germanium diodes- as opposed to transistors- aren't terribly finicky about the fahrenheit, either, any more than silicon diodes, as far as I know.

 

I believe that only one of my fuzzes uses germanium transistors, and if conditions ever dictate that I need to switch to one that uses silicon transistors, or diodes of either type, I've got that covered ;) , essentially with "duplicate effects"- or, at least, multiple fuzzes to choose from. I haven't had a full-on ge-trans fuzz long enough for it to have been tried in the Sun's heat- yet...

 

I was just going to ask about that on the fuzz thread when I saw this. Mostly outdoors, maybe 70 to 30 night to day. That is the reason I went for the silicon version. It's hot here at night also, 10pm now and it's about 80.

 

 

:like:

 

 

Ask yourself- What Would Ren and Stimpy Do?

 

~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~

_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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Cold is an issue with Germanium, too. I think it was Roger Mayer who once said something about putting a Germanium pedal on a cold concrete floor . . .

"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

 

http://www.novparolo.com

 

https://thewinstonpsmithproject.bandcamp.com

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