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My new gift, a DX7


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This guy seems to get some nice analogish sounds out of the original DX. Lots of tutorials on his page.

 

[video:youtube]

 

Great vid and a funny comment on it: "Best quote I heard about programming the DX7 was it was akin to painting the interior of your house through the letterbox."

 

:D

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This guy seems to get some nice analogish sounds out of the original DX. Lots of tutorials on his page.

 

[video:youtube]

 

I call BS

 

I played the DX7 and NEVER heard analog timbres like that.

 

The DX7 is monotimbral. For the demonstration of "Subdivisions" he has a different patch between LH and RH, and his RH part includes the horn timbre layered with choir. The DX7 cannot do splits or layers. Also his demo of "Alaska" is using splits. He is either miming the parts while the track is playing, or he is triggering another synth over MIDI.

 

There is stereo FX chorus processing on the RH part of "Subdivisions" and "Alaska". The DX7 is mono output with zero internal FX. At the same time, the LH part doesn't have the same FX applied. I configure many effects processing of my own and I know the difference on the processing between the two hands. There is no way both of those RH/LH sounds are coming from the DX7.

 

Filter cutoff sweeps such as "Tom Sawyer": the DX7 has no internal filter. In all likelihood he is using an external filter processor as emulating filter sweeps using FM is extraordinarily difficult. I've tried, and I'm no slouch on sound design.

 

When I put up videos of synth demos, I am up front about whether or not any effects processing is used. The only reference in his description is "remastered" and there is very obvious external processing being used.

 

There is no way those sounds are coming from a DX7.

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I dont know much about FM, but couldnt you mimic a filtersweep by just FM programming? I doesnt have to be real filter sweep I think. That doesnt explain all your other arguments though MG! I think you are probably right!

 

Thanks for the trebuchet Moe! I knew it was coming:)

Rudy

 

 

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Forwarded this to my not so local FM guru to debate. A closer look at the makers comments are helpful too.

 

The stereo image is from Chorus/Reverb - personally, I stick Chorus/Reverb or delay on an analogue or virtual analogue as well.

And it doesnt sound like a filter, perhaps it just oscillates through the eg and the lfo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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This guy seems to get some nice analogish sounds out of the original DX. Lots of tutorials on his page.

 

[video:youtube]

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is fake...

Korg Kronos 61 (2); Kurzweil PC4, Roland Fantom-06, Casio PX-350M; 2015 Macbook Pro and 2012 Mac Mini (Logic Pro X and Mainstage), GigPerformer 4.

 

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The creator himself is up front that you're not hearing him play 'live' - it's a multi-track recording with each track using the guy's own DX-7 patches and applying chorus within the DX-7 plus post-effects as well. I don't doubt it's all DX-7 sounds, just well tweaked ones.
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It is totally possible to get splits (of sorts) through the use of keyboard scaling. I remember programming a Cars song that started with a gated noise sound, then went to a synth line. There was a big dead area in the middle of the board that was neither syn nor noise, but two totally different sounds at either end.

Chorus and reverb enhances the DX7 immensely- Yamaha should have put them in there, even cheapo-crap ones would have been nice.

Professional musician = great source of poverty.

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Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is fake...

 

It´s not.

He´s not only playing the DX7 ...

There´s a TX802 w/ a RAM4 card inserted in addition (see 07:08),- offering split/layer functionality,- at least like you get from a DX7mkII (single/ dual) and more when going monophonic/duophonic and using it like "a poor man´s TX816".

I never liked the latter on the TX802 ´cause it introduced voice allocation issues,- but the combo of "old" DX7 w/ TX802 allows playing of 3 different polyphonic patches in realtime at least, 16 voices on DX7 and 2x 8 voices on TX802 safely.

When panned hard L and R, 2 TX802 parts can go to separate mixer channels and consequently benefit from individual FX processing.

And even the original DX7 and TX802 don´t offer the DX7mkII´s 4-voice detune feature,- it can be mimiked on the TX802 w/ some programming skills.

 

I´d really like to have access to these patches,- using ´em in my DX7mkIIFD, TX816 and TG77, but obviously there´s no availability, commercial or free.

Would also be interesting using ´em in Dexed and/or NI FM7/FM8.

 

Finally,- I don´t mistake those patches w/ the analog originals, it´s clearly recognizable as Yammi FM.

But when owning old FM synths already, layering w/ a real analog polysynth will sound BIG for sure.

 

A.C.

 

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I call BS

The DX7 is monotimbral.

There is no way those sounds are coming from a DX7.

 

I believe it's real.

As mentioned above, with keyboard scaling there were indeed split capabilities within a single program. The factory patch Train (31) was included as an example.

However, if you read the text under the Youtube posting, the backing tracks are documented as being separate.

-Tom Williams

{First Name} {at} AirNetworking {dot} com

PC4-7, PX-5S, AX-Edge, PC361

 

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The DX7 is monotimbral. For the demonstration of "Subdivisions" he has a different patch between LH and RH, and his RH part includes the horn timbre layered with choir. The DX7 cannot do splits or layers.

 

Can't comment on the sounds since I'm at work and can't play the video at the moment. BUT, the original DX7 can certainly have a hard split. Can't remember if it was Gary Luenberger or Bo Tomlin that did the programming, but there were a series of sounds that consisted of real, hard splits, not keyboard scaling, but real splits. How they did this I don't know, these two guys were the masters of the DX7 when it first was introduced.

 

I will comment on the lack of filters and the inability to create filter sweeps. It is possible to create a patch that mimics a filter sweep. Will it be as good as a true analog synth,um...no. But it will get the point across. The DX7 was an incredible machine. It opened up an entire new set of sonic capabilities that didn't exist prior to it's introduction. Did it sound like an analog synth, no. Then again, an analog synth can't possibly create the timbres created through FM. It comes down to this. If authentic analog filter sweeps float your boat, then get an analog. Frankly, I enjoy a good filter sweep every now an again, but it gets very tiring when I check out some new analog synth video and all they seem to show is the opening and closing of a filter while an arpeggiator is playing some seemingly random group of notes. "Sorry, didn't mean to jump ship on the original topic".

 

Enjoy your new DX-7. And if you need help programming, I'm sure there are one or three folks around here that see the value in the instrument and love programming the beast. ;)

Wm. David McMahan

I Play, Therefore I Am

 

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I had a TX7 for a decade or two but did not get into it.

So... what does a DX7 give you that software doesn't?

They're both just bits and bytes...

 

One thing that can make a difference in the final output, even if the parameter settings are the same is the design of the Digital to Analog converters. Signal to noise ratio and so forth.

Wm. David McMahan

I Play, Therefore I Am

 

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They're both just bits and bytes...

 

Deserves a LOL !

 

Bits and Bytes have no sound at all !

Run ´em in your DAW application they will sound like your (ASIO) soundcard does, - which is a piece of hardware!

Run ´em on any processor inside a "hardware" keyboard instrument,- it will sound like THAT keyboard instrument´s audio interface does,- and that´s not only a stereo/dual channel DA converter !

 

A.C.

 

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They're both just bits and bytes...

 

Deserves a LOL !

 

Bits and Bytes have no sound at all !

Run ´em in your DAW application they will sound like your (ASIO) soundcard does, - which is a piece of hardware!

Run ´em on any processor inside a "hardware" keyboard instrument,- it will sound like THAT keyboard instrument´s audio interface does,- and that´s not only a stereo/dual channel DA converter !

 

A.C.

 

You have a favorite software FM synth?

I really like PX7 - https://www.propellerheads.com/shop/rack-extension/px7-fm-synthesizer/

 

 

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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One rookie question... is it possible to mute internal sounds if want to use in the future just as a controller? I know it would be just not plugging the cable, but it would be nice to know ig muting is an option.
I hate to be a party pooper, but you probably don't want to do that at all.

 

One of the maddening aspects of the original DX7 was that its key velocity infamously went only to about 100 -- on a scale of 1-127. Which meant that when used as a controller, you could never get full volume (or other velocity-controlled characteristics, e.g., brightness) out of remote modules. Your DX7 keyboard could never drive your external sampled piano beyond mezzo-forte.

 

If you still want to proceed, you could create a voice that made no sound. That's what I use on a Casio PX-5S when I want to use it as a controller.

-Tom Williams

{First Name} {at} AirNetworking {dot} com

PC4-7, PX-5S, AX-Edge, PC361

 

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You have a favorite software FM synth?

I really like PX7 - https://www.propellerheads.com/shop/rack-extension/px7-fm-synthesizer/

 

 

Well, all components for my z97 rackmount computer build are on the way now,- so yesterday nite I ordered Phead Reason 10 and NI Komplete 12 updates for 99 bucks each ...

That PX7 looks tempting and I´ll probably buy it, but I´m not sure.

Up to now I use Dexed and FM7/FM8 from previous NI Komplete versions since I use NI Komplete beginning w/ version 2 "special edition".

 

But,- the software versions were just only helpers for the "quick & dirty" jobs I prefered doing w/ software.

I still love using my DX7mkIIFD, TX816 and TG77 and w/o doubt that´s a different experience always.

I agree on, sound-library management and preset-editing is more comfortable w/ software,- so I´m still using Emagic Sounddiver on old Mac Powerbooks and PPC desktops for the vintage hardware.

 

A.C.

 

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... the original DX7 ... its key velocity infamously went only to about 100 -- on a scale of 1-127. Which meant that when used as a controller, you could never get full volume (or other velocity-controlled characteristics, e.g., brightness) out of remote modules. Your DX7 keyboard could never drive your external sampled piano beyond mezzo-forte.

 

The original DX7 is one of the nicest synth actions and worth using it as a controller.

There were several "workarounds" available for the velocity issue:

 

I used EES M3 Velocity Transformer boxes for the DX7, DX7mkII and KX76.

Even the DX7mkII and KX76 transmitted full velocity scale in theory, the velocity curve was not ideal for that purpose.

The EES velocity Transformer fixed the original DX7 by offering a special setting and for the others there were several different curves user selectable by a stepped rotary encoder.

I still have 2 of these boxes in stock and when soldering a jumper inside they can be powered over MIDI as well.

 

When I got my Miditemp PMM88E MIDI processor/matrix-switcher in the past, it had freely programmable velocity processing built in already,- solution for DX7 explained in the manual,- so programming was easy.

 

I think today´s solution would be Midisolutions Velocity Converter.

 

A.C.

 

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The DX7 is monotimbral. For the demonstration of "Subdivisions" he has a different patch between LH and RH, and his RH part includes the horn timbre layered with choir. The DX7 cannot do splits or layers.

 

Can't comment on the sounds since I'm at work and can't play the video at the moment. BUT, the original DX7 can certainly have a hard split. Can't remember if it was Gary Luenberger or Bo Tomlin that did the programming, but there were a series of sounds that consisted of real, hard splits, not keyboard scaling, but real splits. How they did this I don't know, these two guys were the masters of the DX7 when it first was introduced.

 

I will comment on the lack of filters and the inability to create filter sweeps. It is possible to create a patch that mimics a filter sweep. Will it be as good as a true analog synth,um...no. But it will get the point across. The DX7 was an incredible machine. It opened up an entire new set of sonic capabilities that didn't exist prior to it's introduction. Did it sound like an analog synth, no. Then again, an analog synth can't possibly create the timbres created through FM. It comes down to this. If authentic analog filter sweeps float your boat, then get an analog. Frankly, I enjoy a good filter sweep every now an again, but it gets very tiring when I check out some new analog synth video and all they seem to show is the opening and closing of a filter while an arpeggiator is playing some seemingly random group of notes. "Sorry, didn't mean to jump ship on the original topic".

 

Enjoy your new DX-7. And if you need help programming, I'm sure there are one or three folks around here that see the value in the instrument and love programming the beast. ;)

 

I did the "hard split" programming hack, and voices using it were sold as part of one of Bo's libraries. From the front panel, the Operator Level range is 0-99. Via MIDI Sysex you could send values from 100-127, and certain values in that range would randomly glitch the OS to bypass the "normal" Output Level and +/- Lin or Exp level keyscaling behavior and access the underlying "output level set for each 3-note key range" tables as in the GS1/GS2. So you could do hard splits by allocating the Operators to the 'high' or 'low' sound. You could store the sound, and change the Split point by the Level scaling "Break Point" value, but if you accidentally even just viewed that Operator's Level on the front panel, the OS would correct the 100-127 value to 99 and the hard split would be lost. So, Operator "level" had to be changed by altering all of it's Envelope Levels.

 

Re: Filter sweep emulation -- can be very faithfully done in pure FM, but very dependent on combination of Cutoff & Resonance and the modulation rate you're trying to copy. A DX7 (traditional 6-Op) can do the basics. The 4-Op engines of the DX11/TX81Z and especially the Reface DX are better at it in having the additional non-sine waveforms. AFM in the SY77/99 with the 3 patchable feedback loops and phase control can be setup to be a true virtual analog even without using the filters, and FM-X in the Montage nearly so.

 

Even after all these years the ignorance about the capabilities and timbral palette of FM is still widespread, though programmers like the guy who did the aforementioned video are helping to inform the masses. FM really is the most usably versatile synthesis method out there.

 

Manny

 

 

People assume timbre is a strict progression of input to harmonics, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timbrally-wimbrally... stuff

 

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