Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

Why I won't be buying a fourth CP4


Recommended Posts

Some time ago, in a galaxy far, far away (all right, just the 'old' forum), I mapped out a plan to buy a Kawai MP11SE for home and use the Casio PX-S1000 as my gigging piano, saying sayonara for the third and last time to Yamaha's CP4.

 

Well, it's not happening.

 

While I'm very pleased with the way the Casio is working out, the market for second-hand keyboards here in the UK appears to have utterly stagnated. Of the four keyboards I put up for sale at the time of that previous post, only the Hammond SK1 sold eventually. I had only two ultra lowball offers for the CP4, some seriously deluded offers for the Tyros 5 and no interest whatsoever (and for about the third time of advertising) in the Kurzweil PC361.

 

So it has been borne upon me that it's just not worth selling the CP4. Instead, it lives to fight another day as my studio piano and who knows, it may yet get the odd shout out on the road. At least I have that flexibility in keeping it. The Tyros has also been taken off sale; it's unique and fun. Again, I decided it wasn't worth selling at any cost.

 

Which leaves the Kurz. Oh boy...

Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37

Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Replies 33
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Aidan, sounds like you've learned a valuable lesson thru a difficult path.

Ive been where you are many times.

From now on, I am working on paring down to the absolute minimum gear necessary to get the job done. I do love the Kronos, but as it breaks in, I am finding the RH3 to be just a bit slow to respond for where my playing is going. And I KNOW its not me: Ive played the same material on a comparable Yamaha or Nord board (CP4, NP4) and both respond perfectly. I would still keep the K2, but I have limited space and Im feeling the need for a full 88 note range, plus I need more real time tweakability, so Im going to a CP88 and Moog Matriarch (I have a Mojo 61/LM for organ).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can you lease equipment anymore? I did that all through the 1980s, when technology was in similar rapid advance as it is now. Wrote off the expense 100%, never stuck with a white elephant, till I found the best one to keep long term.

____________________________________
Rod

Here for the gear.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Can you lease equipment anymore?

 

Although I've done that with vehicles, I've never come across anyone offering such a service on keyboards in the UK.

 

Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37

Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aidan, have you had a serious sit down with the CP88 yet?

 

I was going to ask the same thing. IMO, it's a great keyboard, fully worthy of its predecessors, with ever better EPs and inyerface!

 

 

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im surprised no one wants the PC361.

The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers

 

People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is why I make a point of getting a good deal to begin with.

 

If I buy a refurbished (typically 20% off with full warranty), I'm coming close to the selling price of it used. If I buy it used and have good timing (and obviously have confidence in its working state), I've saved 25-45% from the original full price.

 

In either case, when I do need to sell it, I can either get what I paid for it or sell it more easily cause I can offer a really good price without feeling a major burn.

 

Of course these routes are not always available, and if time is a factor, ya gotta bite the bullet. But when it is possible, it makes the keyboard shuffle less painful.

Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425

Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder

QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus 

Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im surprised no one wants the PC361.

 

It is a cool synth, but sounds are getting a bit old. For the bread and butter it is a bit passed by the (lighter) Yamaha's, Rolands etc.

 

Also, I think in Europe Kurzweil is not a very popular brand for some reason.

Rudy

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aidan, I agree 100%, and its not just keyboards. Five years ago, you could place an ad with stuff for sale, set a reasonable price, and people would buy. These days, you get want ads telling you how much people are going to pay, and the prices are pitiful, 25% of list price in some cases.

 

I saw an ad yesterday in my local press, wanted, good amplifier for £50. These people are living in a dream world, they want stuff for nothing.

 

I have an absolutely mint Les Paul standard, worth £1300 of anyones money, and I got some troll slagging me off because I wouldnt let him have it for £800! I am putting my SK1 on eBay tomorrow, had it on Reverb for three months, not even a smidgen of interest. I have at least a dozen guitar pedals, a banjo, a 12 string, a two manual original Crumar Mojo and a HK Lucas Nano 300 all in mint condition, sitting in my spare room, and they will stay there until someone offers me a reasonable price. I dont want a fortune, just whats fair.

 

The bottom has dropped right out of the market for used music gear, at least in the UK. (Rant over)

Occasionally, do something nice for a total stranger. They'll wonder what the hell is going on!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Frank, while I'm sorry to hear of your own experiences, I'm glad it's not just me! I'm guessing the whole uncertainty over Brexit isn't exactly helping, either.

 

Re: the CP88, it's important to remember that I'm happy with the option of either the Casio or my MODX for gigging, dependent on the setting and sound palette needed. If I replaced the CP4, it would be with a 'nicer' straight digital piano for home practice. Perhaps a lightly-used Clavinova might serve the purpose.

 

However, it looks like the state of the second-hand market, for now at least, might be imposing the status quo, and that's not necessarily a reason to complain. The CP4 and all the others in my stable are nice instruments, and I've been fortunate enough to have been able to to afford to buy them in the first place, and having the option of keeping them in the second.

Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37

Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aidan, firstly, dont get me started on Brexit, Id get banned from here so fast that it would make my head spin. Secondly, you are a lot more sanguine about things than I am. The current rip-you-off money for nothing cheating scamming culture we seem to have spawned in recent years makes my blood boil. Decent people seem to decline every year, and are being replaced with chavs and b*****ds.

 

Anyway, apart from that, its good to hear from you again. Stay well, regards, Frank.

Occasionally, do something nice for a total stranger. They'll wonder what the hell is going on!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aidan and Frank,

 

Its not just in the UK.

 

Here in the States, I have to put my used gear at 20-25% off street to get bites and even then I get cheapazz mfers trying to knock me down even further!!

 

Frank, you had me at :

 

The current rip-you-off money for nothing cheating scamming culture we seem to have spawned in recent years makes my blood boil

 

Personally, Id call it millennial entitlement culture and I know Ill get flamed for it, but I calls it like I sees it. Its all pervasive, including those that think they dont have to pay for music, but will happily pay 1k or more for the latest hand held microwave tracking device (cell phone).

 

And before the under 35s come at me with torches and pitchforks, Im talking about a majority percentage, not every single under 35-er. I had an ex who would complain to me about this quality in the recent college grads on her team at work.

 

And my apologies for the rant, I dont want to hijack the thread, I just had to vent!

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Aidan and Frank,

 

 

 

Here in the States, I have to put my used gear at 20-25% off street to get bites and even then I get cheapazz mfers trying to knock me down even further!!

 

 

 

Jim, I wouldnt mind 20-25% off street, Im talking about people offering 25% of shop price, ie 75% off street!

 

And feel free to rant, if more people did it, maybe things would improve.

 

Ive got to the stage now where I rarely offer anything for sale, if I see an ad from someone wanting something specific, and I happen to have it, I may contact them, but they are usually offering about 50% of what I would accept, so I have £££thousands sitting, that someone could use if only they were willing to give me a fair price.

 

Such is life.

 

Occasionally, do something nice for a total stranger. They'll wonder what the hell is going on!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, Frank, that is messed UP!!

....and thats for guitars you listed, too??

From what I hear from guitarist colleagues, its not quite that dire in the guitar market, but it may turn that way if that clown occupying 1600 Pennsylvania Av and our thoroughly corrupt Supreme Court continue on their current courses.

(Sorry, moderators, for dipping my toe into the political, but it is only relevant to the economic aspect of our discussion here...)

 

I totally get where you are coming from...after I unload this Kronos, I am DONE and DONE !!

(Famous last words, lol!)

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With the explosion of new fantastic keyboards the last 10-15 years, it's not surprising that the market is overfull with equipment and prices coming down. Behringers promises of releasing one mission new boards doesn't really help the used market. Again, as a keyboardist I feel very fortunate to play all those new fantastic boards released. On the flip side I actually earned money on selling my Roland JDXA which I bought used, just had to wait for the right buyer. It's been the same with some of my gear that's been on my shelf unused for ages, just had to wait. I'm also holding back on CP88 even though I really wan't a keyboard with a good keybed, I have to suffer my nord stage 88.....damn that new white grand was great.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the majority of people offering ridiculous low-ball offers have the same mentality as those selling vintage gear for ridiculous high prices. Theyve got nothing to lose asking and hoping theyll find someone stupid enough to go for it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have donated equipment to schools and small music cooperatives. Okay tax benefits. And I feel good passing it forward

Hammond C3, Leslie 122, Steinway B, Wurlitzer 200A, Rhodes 73,

D6 Clav

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the majority of people offering ridiculous low-ball offers have the same mentality as those selling vintage gear for ridiculous high prices. Theyve got nothing to lose asking and hoping theyll find someone stupid enough to go for it.

 

 

Word

 

Occasionally, do something nice for a total stranger. They'll wonder what the hell is going on!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, Frank, that is messed UP!!

if that clown occupying 1600 Pennsylvania Av and our thoroughly corrupt Supreme Court continue on their current courses.

(Sorry, moderators, for dipping my toe into the political, but it is only relevant to the economic aspect of our discussion here...)

Jim,

I'm not a moderator, but I call foul. Please leave your political crap at the door.

-Tom Williams

{First Name} {at} AirNetworking {dot} com

PC4-7, PX-5S, AX-Edge, PC361

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, Frank, that is messed UP!!

if that clown occupying 1600 Pennsylvania Av and our thoroughly corrupt Supreme Court continue on their current courses.

(Sorry, moderators, for dipping my toe into the political, but it is only relevant to the economic aspect of our discussion here...)

Jim,

I'm not a moderator, but I call foul. Please leave your political crap at the door.

 

Tom,

I had my rant and Im finished with the political crap. As you would see from any of my posts, Ive not dipped my toes into the political waters before. It was only because of the economic aspect discussed herein and YOU need not be concerned with any further rumination from me on any political subject.

 

I also think it is interesting that you cut out the body of my response which illustrates that my outburst/rant was tied to the economic conditions I described. Context is everything, you cant cherry pick to prove a point.

 

Sincerely,

Jim

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, Frank, that is messed UP!!

if that clown occupying 1600 Pennsylvania Av and our thoroughly corrupt Supreme Court continue on their current courses.

(Sorry, moderators, for dipping my toe into the political, but it is only relevant to the economic aspect of our discussion here...)

Jim,

I'm not a moderator, but I call foul. Please leave your political crap at the door.

 

++100000!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, Frank, that is messed UP!!

if that clown occupying 1600 Pennsylvania Av and our thoroughly corrupt Supreme Court continue on their current courses.

(Sorry, moderators, for dipping my toe into the political, but it is only relevant to the economic aspect of our discussion here...)

Jim,

I'm not a moderator, but I call foul. Please leave your political crap at the door.

 

++100000!

 

Did you read my response to Tom, or did you just hit reply without looking?

(no snark, just a simple question)

 

To bring it back around to the original question, has anyone else noticed a devaluation in the used instrument market, specifically keyboards and have you noticed a difference in price according to country or region?

 

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, Frank, that is messed UP!!

if that clown occupying 1600 Pennsylvania Av and our thoroughly corrupt Supreme Court continue on their current courses.

(Sorry, moderators, for dipping my toe into the political, but it is only relevant to the economic aspect of our discussion here...)

Jim,

I'm not a moderator, but I call foul. Please leave your political crap at the door.

 

++100000!

 

Did you read my response to Tom, or did you just hit reply without looking?

(no snark, just a simple question)

 

To bring it back around to the original question, has anyone else noticed a devaluation in the used instrument market, specifically keyboards and have you noticed a difference in price according to country or region?

 

I didn't read your last post, but do you blame your president for low gear prices on a used market?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

gg22

 

I will reply to you via PM, so as to hold to my word of not furthering any political discussion on the forum

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

Link to comment
Share on other sites

gg22

 

I will reply to you via PM, so as to hold to my word of not furthering any political discussion on the forum

And I will reply to you here - mandating online retailers to collect taxes on used equipment doesn't devalue used items, it actually makes them more expensive, like when you sell your used Korg you have an advantage compared to online retailers, as you don't have to change tax and can price your items higher. So you have it backwards.

For example in Canada we pay taxes on online purchases (new and used) since long time ago, and it's 13-15%, not like your 7-8%. And gear prices on used marked actually went up in recent years.

 

So I'm not that one who "doesn't have cognitive bandwidth" ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

gg22

 

I will reply to you via PM, so as to hold to my word of not furthering any political discussion on the forum

And I will reply to you here - mandating online retailers to collect taxes on used equipment doesn't devalue used items, it actually makes them more expensive, like when you sell your used Korg you have an advantage compared to online retailers, as you don't have to change tax and can price your items higher. So you have it backwards.

For example in Canada we pay taxes on online purchases (new and used) since long time ago, and it's 13-15%, not like your 7-8%. And gear prices on used marked actually went up in recent years.

 

So I'm not that one who "doesn't have cognitive bandwidth" ;)

 

Im happy for you that you live in a world where you get fantastic returns when selling your gear, pal, but when guys here are saying theyre taking a 75% hit when they sell their used gear, thats devaluation and a depressed market to boot.

 

Peace out, hermano.

 

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jim, you've misconstrued my actions: I quoted the part that was out of line in what was otherwise a discussion of economic trends.

 

But, Tom, its all part of the same discussion! The actions of leaders as well as Supreme Court rulings have impact on what happens in our economy despite what some theorists and scholars would like to think.

 

Anyway, as Ive said, rest assured Ill not dip my toes back in THAT water....

 

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...