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Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! #2993335 06/08/19 02:24 PM
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Authentic be-bop approach. Barry Harris is the real thing.

Barry Harris Workshops | VIDEOS

Some of the pearls of wisdom:
Practice playing scales up from the root "to the 7th", NOT to the 8th.
Practice playing scales "down from the 7th" not from the 8th.
Use "5 4 3 2" phrases "to get out of trouble".
We don't think about the ii chord scale, "we think the V7 scale".
Practice the half step "rules".
The three important arpeggio triads.
Interrupt your chromatic scale with some 3rd leaps (chord tones) along the way.

KC Island
Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Jazz+] #2993341 06/08/19 03:01 PM
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.
Barry teaches what he calls the "5 4 3 2" phrases.
Here's a nice example of practicing the "4" and the "3" phrases on the bridge of Cherokee. In this case starting on beat 2 and descending from the 5th.
Of course you would first need to learn what the "5 4 3 2" phrases are from a previous workshop video.



Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Jazz+] #2993342 06/08/19 03:05 PM
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5 4 3 2 using #9s and open 4ths.
That's Monk-Ville.
And while himself wasn't BeeBop during BeeBop the Bird and others he played with were nothing but.

Thanks,
I'll check them out because I could use a bee bop brush up.
We transcribed Bird Solos for ear training class.
Now days there so many great software tools.
Anything beats our cassette Marantz half speeders.

Cheerz


Magnus C350 + FMR RNP + Realistic Unisphere Mic
Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: hardware] #2993484 06/09/19 08:17 AM
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Barry is a pure gold mine, and the nicest human ever.
You have to get an in person lesson or master class while this man is still with us!


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Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Jazz+] #2993694 06/10/19 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jazz+
Authentic be-bop approach. Barry Harris is the real thing.

Barry Harris Workshops | VIDEOS

Some of the pearls of wisdom:
Practice playing scales up from the root "to the 7th", NOT to the 8th.
Practice playing scales "down from the 7th" not from the 8th.
Use "5 4 3 2" phrases "to get out of trouble".
We don't think about the ii chord scale, "we think the V7 scale".
Practice the half step "rules".
The three important arpeggio triads.
Interrupt your chromatic scale with some 3rd leaps (chord tones) along the way.


Love love love this Icon... "Authentic be bop", is on the money.



You don't have ideas, ideas have you
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Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: I-missRichardTee] #2993716 06/10/19 09:42 PM
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After seeing this thread I pulled out my DVD set of the Barry Harris Workshop and always enjoy watching him work those students and pickup something new every time. The DVD's aren't cheap but I really enjoy them.

Also Howard Rees who is Barry's music and business partner has online classes covering Barry's materials. Here's the link he has the classes and sells the Barry Harris Workshop DVDs.

http://www.jazzschoolonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=featured&Itemid=435


Last edited by Docbop; 06/10/19 09:42 PM.
Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Docbop] #2993803 06/11/19 01:48 PM
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Not to hijack this Barry Harris thread, but I also wanted to mention an online jazz training site recommended by Doug McKenzie whom some of you may know from YouTube as Jazz2511.

Mr. McKenzie himself is a very experienced Jazz Pianist and professor based out of Australia. I learned about him via a recommendation from 7NoteMode on his Web site. Doug McKenzie had listed the following gentleman's online training on his site: Gjermund Sivertsen. The folks at the pianoworld forum have said some nice things about his training, although there are quite a few free video's available on YouTube from him as well. In full disclosure, I have not signed up for any of this training myself. But the YouTube video's are very interesting.

https://www.popjazzonline.com/

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjoZsS7OmH-VuHXNzrFaDyA

It's also worth mentioning that Mr. McKenzie also offers a DVD with all of his online video's (basically his solo and trio interpretations of jazz standards with his own analysis of what he's playing). This DVD is very inexpensive and would keep a person occupied for a very long time! They come with adobe pdf and midi files of the performances.

http://www.bushgrafts.com

~ AnthonyM

Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: AnthonyM] #2993825 06/11/19 05:12 PM
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I can vouch for the Doug mckenzie course. I bought his dvd about 7 years ago and I'm still sifting through it. It cost maybe $20 and contained an enormous amount of material, transcription pdfs, videos, midi files, bass and drum audio files to practice to. He also offers an options to pay a nominal few every few years and hell send you on any newer files he's uploaded since you last purchased. It's a great resource if you put in the hours.

Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Jazz+] #2993827 06/11/19 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: Jazz+
.
Barry teaches what he calls the "5 4 3 2" phrases.
Here's a nice example of practicing the "4" and the "3" phrases on the bridge of Cherokee. In this case starting on beat 2 and descending from the 5th.
Of course you would first need to learn what the "5 4 3 2" phrases are from a previous workshop video.




The man is a goldmine in a mostly clueless world.

As far as the fine pianist McKenzie... I do not mind at all, the bringing of his name into the conversation. But this causes me to compare the two pianist teachers.

McKenzie, a creative spirit no doubt, is a watered down Bill Evans. That is an unfair comparison, because Bill Evans is a deeper pianist than just about anyone, in a certain respect. His European connection ( Chopin, Ravel ) is unparalleled, in my opinion.
But if one of the top jazz pianists ( Bill Evans ) could be said to have a "weakness" it would be on the African American side of the reckoning... rhythm and Blues.
Don't over react, I adore worship Bill Evans, and view him as a better pianist, with more knowledge even than Barry Harris. But Barry Harris has more be bop, and blues in his nature.
And McKenzie is not in the same conversation, in spite of his excellence... we are talking the Greatest in the history of jazz piano... think hierarchally.

What Barry has to offer, NO ONE in jazz academia has, period. The closest is Mike Longo.
But for the more euro side of jazz, Bill Evans surpasses all but a tiny handful, perhaps Herbie Hancock.
I think of jazz as a wide ranging spectrum between players heavily on the African American side eg
Les McCann, Gene Harris
the opposite side might be Lennie Tristano ( I could be mistaken, just an opinion )

Players who are more all encompassing within that spectrum, are Barry Harris, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea.
If this offends, sorry bout that, merely an opinion.

Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: I-missRichardTee] #2993848 06/11/19 08:43 PM
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Great thread! Thanks for posting!

My curiosity was piqued about the 5-4-3-2 thing and I found this analysis:

https://blog.uvm.edu/tgcleary/2015/03/06/charlie-parker-and-alan-turing-anthropology-is-the-bombe/

I also found this workshop report from "Hector", who mentions a "1" lick in addition to the 5,4,3,2 licks:

Quote:

5: 5 7 1 11 3 (5 as the highest note)
4: 11 9 #9 3 (I'm guilty of using this one far too much!)
3: 3 5 b7 9
2: 9 b7 7 1
1: R 7 b7 9 13 5 (This is a really classic bebop lick, used all the time! 9 down to 13 btw)

So those are the phrases to be used on dominant chords to not just play the bebop mixolydian scale. They start on, you guessed it, 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1. They're basically just nice little phrases to break up purely scale-based playing.

https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/224522-54321-barry-harris/

Last edited by GovernorSilver; 06/11/19 08:47 PM.
Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: GovernorSilver] #2993998 06/12/19 07:52 PM
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Pianist named Bill Graham shares how Barry Harris changed his playing


Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: GovernorSilver] #2994026 06/12/19 11:10 PM
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Actually 5432 are first taught on the tonic major scale and the 2 phrase starts on “+” and goes
2 7 1 #1 2 , and there is a triplet rhythm for the three middle notes

See here (3/4 speed might help)


Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Jazz+] #2994186 06/16/19 07:56 PM
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Just throwing out one thing to remember about Barry Harris method. As I learned from hanging with some name players Barry Harris is great and is the foundation that needs to be learned, BUT have to remember Barry doesn't like Jazz from about the mid-fifties onward. So Barry is a foundation but a lot has happened since the mid-50's so there is more to learn past Barry.

Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Docbop] #2994346 06/17/19 04:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Docbop
Just throwing out one thing to remember about Barry Harris method. As I learned from hanging with some name players Barry Harris is great and is the foundation that needs to be learned, BUT have to remember Barry doesn't like Jazz from about the mid-fifties onward. So Barry is a foundation but a lot has happened since the mid-50's so there is more to learn past Barry.


That would explain why he prefers to name certain scales "G7" and "C7" instead of "G Mixolydian" and "C Mixolydian". He seems focused on bebop era jazz and not so much into the modal jazz that came later.

In any case, I'm trying out his stuff and seeing where it takes me.

Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: GovernorSilver] #2994692 06/18/19 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by GovernorSilver
Originally Posted by Docbop
Just throwing out one thing to remember about Barry Harris method. As I learned from hanging with some name players Barry Harris is great and is the foundation that needs to be learned, BUT have to remember Barry doesn't like Jazz from about the mid-fifties onward. So Barry is a foundation but a lot has happened since the mid-50's so there is more to learn past Barry.


That would explain why he prefers to name certain scales "G7" and "C7" instead of "G Mixolydian" and "C Mixolydian". He seems focused on bebop era jazz and not so much into the modal jazz that came later.

In any case, I'm trying out his stuff and seeing where it takes me.


But why complicate a simple G7 with 1000+ year old Greek modes that in reality have little to do with be bop?
Why do teachers do this... generation after generation?

As far as going beyond mid 1950's.... Crawl, walk, jog, run, sprint. Are youa already a jogger? Can you play be bop like Barry?
This rushing forward, is suspicious to me... the more you move away from restrictions of the past, the more you open loop holes for jive playing. Who can criticize a Cecil Taylor... how would you know? I say master 1950's first.

For instance
Bill Evans
Barry Harris
Joe Sample
Wynton Kelly
Oscar Peterson
Ahmad Jamal
Red Garland
Cedar Walton

Work on these for a while grin facepalm

Last edited by I-missRichardTee; 06/18/19 06:45 PM.

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Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: I-missRichardTee] #2994698 06/18/19 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by I-missRichardTee
Originally Posted by GovernorSilver
Originally Posted by Docbop
Just throwing out one thing to remember about Barry Harris method. As I learned from hanging with some name players Barry Harris is great and is the foundation that needs to be learned, BUT have to remember Barry doesn't like Jazz from about the mid-fifties onward. So Barry is a foundation but a lot has happened since the mid-50's so there is more to learn past Barry.


That would explain why he prefers to name certain scales "G7" and "C7" instead of "G Mixolydian" and "C Mixolydian". He seems focused on bebop era jazz and not so much into the modal jazz that came later.

In any case, I'm trying out his stuff and seeing where it takes me.


But why complicate a simple G7 with 1000+ year old Greek modes that in reality have little to do with be bop?
Why do teachers do this... generation after generation?

As far as going beyond mid 1950's.... Crawl, walk, jog, run, sprint. Are youa already a jogger? Can you play be bop like Barry?




No, that's why I'm looking into his teachings.

I wouldn't dream of telling Barry or anybody else sharing his method to switch to using Greek names - in case that wasn't made clear in my previous posts.

Last edited by GovernorSilver; 06/18/19 06:55 PM.
Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Jazz+] #2994702 06/18/19 06:52 PM
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Thanks to this thread - and thank you btw to participants other than myself, heh - I did some searching around and found this video series, started by a student who began attending Barry's weekly class in 1993. I've found it very useful. Perhaps somebody else here may as well. If not, thats ok too.

Link to channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDdKVro-7hS8cMjBrcqaAMQ

Link to first episode:



Video that I found while searching for 5432:


Last edited by GovernorSilver; 06/18/19 06:54 PM.
Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Jazz+] #2994791 06/19/19 05:26 AM
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I believe that no matter what type of jazz music you play, that a bebop informed melodic vocabulary is a big plus. Post bop is more concerned with deconstruction techniques (post modernism)… so do you see the advantage of coming from the most melodically sophisticated foundation (bop)?


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Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Jazz+] #2994818 06/19/19 01:55 PM
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We've been discussing the "Things I learned from Barry Harris" channel on another forum, and somebody asked this:

Quote
I always thought of C7 or F7, etc. as chords rather than scales. What exactly is a 7 scale?


One of the answers invoked a Greek name. laugh

Anyway, I did some Googling as a result of his question and found this article:
https://blog.uvm.edu/tgcleary/2014/...y-harris-and-the-minor-ii-v-progression/

Excerpt:
Quote
One of the licks that Parker uses in both these solos is what I call the ‘seven down to the third’ scale. This name comes from the scale approach that Barry Harris teaches to the minor ii-V progression. As shown below, the minor ii-V progression has the same ascending-fourth/descending fifth root motion as the major ii-V progressions discussed in the last post, but the ii chord is a minor 7 flat five (rather than simply a minor seventh) and the V chord, in simplest version of the progression, is a dominant seven flat nine chord (rather than simply a dominant). Barry’s approach to the minor ii-V, like many of his other teaching concepts, is based on the ‘seventh scale’ (a.k.a. the mixolydian scale). Rather than assigning two different scales to the two chords of the minor ii-V, as many improvisation methods do, Barry uses a ‘seven up and down’ pattern with a seventh scale starting a major third below the root of the ii chord (or a minor third above the root of the V chord).



This scale choice has multiple benefits: for one, it is a pitch collection which is consonant with the m7b5 chord but avoids accenting its root. Also, when the ‘seven down’ half of the scale is ended on the note a half step above the scale’s root, it outlines a fully diminished chord that functions as a rootless voicing of the V chord.


The author is pianist Tom Cleary.

As for me, I'm still working on executing Barry's blues scale exercise with good time, heh.

Last edited by GovernorSilver; 06/19/19 01:56 PM.
Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Jazz+] #2994880 06/19/19 07:59 PM
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Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: jimkost2002] #2994919 06/20/19 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jimkost2002
Barry is a pure gold mine, and the nicest human ever.
You have to get an in person lesson or master class while this man is still with us!


I just heard that students either pay a $40/year membership or $10 per class to attend Barry's class.

That is an insane deal to study this stuff with the man himself.

I wonder if anyone here has done the class. Peeps who live in NYC are lucky.

I'm nowhere near the level of you guys, so I'm contentedly plugging away at just playing his basic blues changes and rhythm changes exercise in time.

Last edited by GovernorSilver; 06/20/19 03:30 AM.
Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Jazz+] #2995268 06/22/19 01:33 AM
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Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Jazz+] #2995269 06/22/19 01:34 AM
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Recent,
At age 89:



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Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Jazz+] #2995368 06/22/19 08:32 PM
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Really good thread this, damn hes still playing absolutely fantastic. Interesting to see how he phrases and use what he teaches.....good for brushing up my bebop lines
Originally Posted by Jazz+
Recent,
At age 89:


Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Jazz+] #2995371 06/22/19 09:08 PM
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I'm digging the stuff so far. Today I was told by a grumpy older person that I'm wasting my time and should be spending all of it transcribing Bird instead. I laughed instead of giving him "the Bird" and went back to work

Last edited by GovernorSilver; 06/22/19 09:08 PM.
Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Jazz+] #2995375 06/22/19 11:10 PM
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I'm using Barry Harris Method for several months now. What a relief. No more modes, hooray!!!

Here are two great teachers of Barry's method (for piano) on YT:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdtOj-qz8AM&list=PLjtr-OF8R413C-9G1PP_UpvE0QhfqiUQf
Conner builds Barry's world from the ground up. Better by far than watching shots from Barry's masterclass, which are good, but random in level and focus. If I could keep only one video tutorial series this would be it.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ12xkgS35S8ziqiOaN_5U3DLoZm_S0du
Bill also has sheet music, free and very cheap (both), to back up his sessions.

And here are a ton of Barry Harris transcriptions from the YT vids and other teachers.
https://www.noteflight.com/profile/00d79e4d946a94cc876784a90f8299c5364d816a



Last edited by uhoh7; 06/22/19 11:16 PM.

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Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Jazz+] #2995380 06/23/19 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Jazz+
Recent,
At age 89:



At bar 29 & 30 I've always played the Chromatic thing- Eb Ma7 D7 +9+5 | Db13 C7 b9 +5 |.....

I like this , Gm7 Ab7 | Gm7 C7 | - something different and probably closer to the source - Bud Powell.

also play the Flat 5 changes- Am7b5 D7 at bar 28 where he plays F7. All good, just different.

Only a handful that were that close to the Source that are still with us - like direct decedents of Mozart or Beethoven.. They should be treasured even more so.



Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Jazz+] #2995386 06/23/19 01:27 AM
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Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Jazz+] #2995388 06/23/19 01:29 AM
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Re: Best online Jazz Training workshops ever! [Re: Jazz+] #2995389 06/23/19 01:31 AM
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