Music Player Network Home Guitar Player Magazine Keyboard Magazine Bass Player Magazine EQ Magazine
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
E-Mu B3 and Proteus 2000 not responding to expression pedal #2993897
06/12/19 10:01 AM
06/12/19 10:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
B
BadDog1123 Offline OP
Member
BadDog1123  Offline OP
Member
B

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
I have two E-Mu modules in my rack, a B3 and a Proteus 2000. When I connect a volume/expression pedal to my MIDI controller, the E-Mu modules do not respond to pedal changes by changing the volume. I also have a Roland XV-5050 in my rack which DOES respond to expression pedal changes using the same MIDI controller and pedal, so I know the pedal and controller are working properly.

I have tried using both a Roland Juno-DS88 and a Studiologic Numa Compact 2X as the MIDI controller, but the E-Mu's will not change volume when I use the pedal. However, I believe that the E-Mu's are "seeing" the MIDI expression pedal messages sent by the controller because the front-panel MIDI activity LED is lit constantly when I rock the volume pedal with no keys depressed.

I am new to the E-Mu modules, having just purchased them within the past few months. Does anyone have insight into how I can make the E-Mu's recognize and respond to expression pedal changes? Since the architecture and settings on the B3 and Proteus 2000 are similar, I am guessing that it is the same configuration issue on both units. Is there a "PatchCord" setting that I can create on a per-patch basis to force it to respond to expression pedal changes by altering the amp or MIDI volume?

I've tried everything that I can think of. Hoping you guys and gals can help me out.

Thanks!

KC Island
Re: E-Mu B3 and Proteus 2000 not responding to expression pedal [Re: BadDog1123] #2993913
06/12/19 11:45 AM
06/12/19 11:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,419
Take a guess ....
Delaware Dave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Delaware Dave  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,419
Take a guess ....
I pulled down the manual from here:

http://www.polynominal.com/emu-proteus/emu-proteus-manual.pdf

You may have to turn the controller's on within the module. I saw volume was controller by CC#7 but did not see expression defined as CC#11. Foot pedal is controlled by CC#4, so it may be turned off. You will have to read through the manual to understand what features are on and what are off.


57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module; www.dyinbreedband.com
www.thewildthingsrock.webs.com
Re: E-Mu B3 and Proteus 2000 not responding to expression pedal [Re: Delaware Dave] #2993921
06/12/19 12:53 PM
06/12/19 12:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
B
BadDog1123 Offline OP
Member
BadDog1123  Offline OP
Member
B

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
Thank you for your prompt reply, Dave! The manual in your link is for the original Proteus, not the P1K (which the B3 is based on) or the P2K. Both the B3 and P2K manuals state:

The following MIDI controls are automatically routed...:

Pitch Wheel pwh
Modulation Wheel 01
Pedal 04
Volume 07
Pan 10
Expression 11

So I assume that if I send expression changes on CC11, then I should be able to control volume. However, and your point is a good one, perhaps I need to somehow remap CC11 into CC07 to control volume on the B3 and P2K?

As I said, my Roland XV-5050 is picking up the expression/volume pedal changes just fine using the same controller/pedal combination. The E-Mu's appear to be ignoring what is sent or more likely, it is not mapped properly through either global settings or on a per-patch basis. I just can't figure out where to begin!

Re: E-Mu B3 and Proteus 2000 not responding to expression pedal [Re: BadDog1123] #2993949
06/12/19 03:48 PM
06/12/19 03:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,419
Take a guess ....
Delaware Dave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Delaware Dave  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,419
Take a guess ....
Does the manual tell you which midi channel you need to send the controllers to?

Case in point, I owned the Hammond XM2 module. i could not get the lower manual drawbars to respond to my controller. since my pc3 (controlling keyboard) was set to midi channel 1, in order not to conflict with it i set the xm2 to respond to channels 3,4 and 5. So i tried to set the PC3 sliders to channel 4 (lower manual) to control the drawbars, but it did not work. so then I set it to 3 and it still did not work. Frustrated I wrote hammond. After some experimentation they came back and said that the PC3 needed to send to the upper channel even though I was controlling the lower channel drawbars. I told them that I already tried sending my commands to channel 3 (upper channel) and it did not work. Hammond came back later and said that to control the drawbars the commands must be sent to channel 1, even if the xm2 is set to 3,4 and 5. Voila, it worked!. Who would have known that? It was not documented anywhere in the manual that upper channel means Channel 1 regardless of what the upper channel is actually set to on the XM2.


57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module; www.dyinbreedband.com
www.thewildthingsrock.webs.com
Re: E-Mu B3 and Proteus 2000 not responding to expression pedal [Re: BadDog1123] #2993950
06/12/19 03:58 PM
06/12/19 03:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,918
Toronto, ON
Sven Golly Offline
KC Ambassador of Goodwill
Sven Golly  Offline
KC Ambassador of Goodwill
10k Club

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,918
Toronto, ON
Originally Posted By: BadDog1123
Thank you for your prompt reply, Dave! The manual in your link is for the original Proteus, not the P1K (which the B3 is based on) or the P2K. Both the B3 and P2K manuals state:

The following MIDI controls are automatically routed...:

Pitch Wheel pwh
Modulation Wheel 01
Pedal 04
Volume 07
Pan 10
Expression 11

So I assume that if I send expression changes on CC11, then I should be able to control volume. However, and your point is a good one, perhaps I need to somehow remap CC11 into CC07 to control volume on the B3 and P2K?

As I said, my Roland XV-5050 is picking up the expression/volume pedal changes just fine using the same controller/pedal combination. The E-Mu's appear to be ignoring what is sent or more likely, it is not mapped properly through either global settings or on a per-patch basis. I just can't figure out where to begin!


Not sure which manual you're reading, but the original B3 module did not have CC11 automatically mapped, only CC7 (Volume) and CC10 (Pan).

What happens on the E-Mu units if you reassign your pedal at the controller to transmit CC7 instead of 11?


"Do you see over yonder, friend Sancho, thirty or forty hulking giants? I intend to do battle with them and slay them."
Re: E-Mu B3 and Proteus 2000 not responding to expression pedal [Re: Delaware Dave] #2993951
06/12/19 03:59 PM
06/12/19 03:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
B
BadDog1123 Offline OP
Member
BadDog1123  Offline OP
Member
B

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
The manual is unspecific when it comes to which MIDI channel to use, The P2K actually has two sets of MIDI ports for up to 32 channels. Using the master menu setup, I can turn on or off each of the 32 channels for sending/receiving MIDI messages, plus I can select which channels to receive program changes on. It is so flexible that it gets confusing!

I currently have the B3 set to receive on channels 8 and 9, and the P2K to receive on 10 and 11 (because I have other gear using the other channels). I can try good ol' channel 1 just to rule out the situation you mentioned, being fixed to channel 1.

Re: E-Mu B3 and Proteus 2000 not responding to expression pedal [Re: Sven Golly] #2993954
06/12/19 04:10 PM
06/12/19 04:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
B
BadDog1123 Offline OP
Member
BadDog1123  Offline OP
Member
B

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
You're right, Sven! The B3 manual only lists CC's 01, 03, 04, 07, and 10 as standard mapped. I "believe" my MIDI controller is sending CC11 for the volume pedal, but I will verify. The Proteus 2000 manual does state that CC11 (expression) is mapped standard. The B3 is based on the Proteus 1000 architecture, so CC11 must have been added in the upgrade. Both the B3 and P2K are having this issue, so if CC11 is mapped then it doesn't seem to have any effect.

The controller I use (Studiologic Numa Compact 2X) does not have the option to reassign the pedal to another CC. If that is the issue, is there a "MIDI box" that can sit in between my controller and rack synths to reassign messages from CC11 to CC07?

Re: E-Mu B3 and Proteus 2000 not responding to expression pedal [Re: BadDog1123] #2993963
06/12/19 04:35 PM
06/12/19 04:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,419
Take a guess ....
Delaware Dave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member
Delaware Dave  Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,419
Take a guess ....
The midi solutions event processer would convert your 11 to 7

http://midisolutions.com/prodevp.htm


57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module; www.dyinbreedband.com
www.thewildthingsrock.webs.com
Re: E-Mu B3 and Proteus 2000 not responding to expression pedal [Re: Delaware Dave] #2993969
06/12/19 05:03 PM
06/12/19 05:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,918
Toronto, ON
Sven Golly Offline
KC Ambassador of Goodwill
Sven Golly  Offline
KC Ambassador of Goodwill
10k Club

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,918
Toronto, ON
No need for new hardware, here:

Clonk here.


"Do you see over yonder, friend Sancho, thirty or forty hulking giants? I intend to do battle with them and slay them."
Re: E-Mu B3 and Proteus 2000 not responding to expression pedal [Re: Sven Golly] #2993976
06/12/19 05:28 PM
06/12/19 05:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
B
BadDog1123 Offline OP
Member
BadDog1123  Offline OP
Member
B

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
Sven, I saw the Sweetwater article as I was doing my research, prior to posting here. Following the instructions, I fiddled with the PatchCords on a preset, but couldn't find a combination to essentially reassign CC11 to control volume. If anyone knows the specific steps, please chime in! I will give it another try on my own, however.

Dave, if I can't reassign CC11 to CC07 in the Emu's, I would then consider the MIDI Solutions Event Processor box. I have two of their Quad Thru boxes and they work like a champ!

Thanks to everyone for the useful, on-point information and positive feedback! Great community we have here.

Re: E-Mu B3 and Proteus 2000 not responding to expression pedal [Re: BadDog1123] #2994690
06/18/19 06:31 PM
06/18/19 06:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
B
BadDog1123 Offline OP
Member
BadDog1123  Offline OP
Member
B

Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 8
Quick update...

I updated my E-Mu Proteus 2000 operating system from v1.04 to the latest v.2.26. I did likewise with the E-Mu B3, all the way from v1.00 to v2.26. Now both units respond properly to CC11 expression pedal messages. That was it.

Lesson learned, make sure the OS/firmware is up-to-date before beating your head against a wall!!

Thanks again to everyone who chimed in with helpful advice and information.

Re: E-Mu B3 and Proteus 2000 not responding to expression pedal [Re: BadDog1123] #2994896
06/19/19 10:32 PM
06/19/19 10:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,918
Toronto, ON
Sven Golly Offline
KC Ambassador of Goodwill
Sven Golly  Offline
KC Ambassador of Goodwill
10k Club

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12,918
Toronto, ON
twothumbs


"Do you see over yonder, friend Sancho, thirty or forty hulking giants? I intend to do battle with them and slay them."
Re: E-Mu B3 and Proteus 2000 not responding to expression pedal [Re: BadDog1123] #2994942
06/20/19 08:57 AM
06/20/19 08:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,452
West Sussex, UK
L
Losendoskeys Offline
Platinum Member
Losendoskeys  Offline
Platinum Member
L

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,452
West Sussex, UK
Well done - haven't used mine for at least 10 years and almost powered it up!


Yamaha CP70B;Roland XP30/AXSynth/Fantom/FA76/XR;Hammond XK3C SK2; Korg Kronos 73;ProSoloist Rack+; ARP ProSoloist; Mellotron M4000D; GEM Promega2; Hohner Pianet N, Roland V-Grand,Voyager XL, RMI

Moderated by  Dave Bryce, Stephen Fortner 

 
   
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1