VB3II & Blue 3II & Amplitube Leslie

[Baldwin Funster]

......VB3I is good enough for the moment.

 

I am fully happy with most of vb3 v1. The cv is a little bold, the percussion is kinda wierd but fun, but the overdrive is placed in a bad place in the gain staging. The distortion is usable but hard to dial in. But i havent been excited about anything new enough to reconfigure all my controllers for something new.

[AnotherScott]

I finally had a chance to download all the demos and do a bit of comparison.

 

First, in case anyone else wants to do this, it's also a great time to try out the demo of GigPerformer. It's great for comparisons like this, because it's so easy to load up all the pieces on one screen (even multiple instances of the same piece) and then route different organs to different rotary modules, or multiple organs to the same rotary module, etc.... just grab the on-screen "wires" and move them, it takes only a few seconds to switch to any other combination. In my case, I was working with a single keyboard, so I also used GP to easily split and octave shift it, so I could also go back and forth between playing two completely different configurations by placing one on the low keys and one on the high keys, octave shifted to be playing the same notes. So each hand could be playing the same organ going into a different leslie, or two different organs going into the same leslie, whatever I wanted.

 

I compared the newest demos of VB3 and Blue, and their Leslie sims (each one lets you use their organ and Leslie sims independently, so either organ could be loaded into either sim). I also checked out the UVI rotary. Besides the usual caveat about how subjective some of this is, there are so many different organ models, leslie models, and tweakable parameters on some of these, it could take days to do a truly thorough comparison. But here's my general take on it so far:

 

I generally preferred the percussion and the crosstalk on VB3 over Blue3.

 

I generally preferred the key click and overdrive of Blue3 over VB3, and with some tweaking I got the percussion closer to the VB3 percussion I preferred (though VB3 still has the edge there).

 

I did not compare C/V.

 

I liked the Blue3 rotary sim (called Spin) noticeably better than the one in VB3. So while the choice between VB3 and Blue3 is a close call for me, they both sound better through Spin than through the sim that comes with VB3. (Note that this was comparing in stereo via headphones. I still want to try this through speakers, and in mono. Stereo/mono would make no difference for the organ comparison, but could alter the result of the rotary comparison.)

 

I also tried both through UVI Rotary, but didn't like it as much.

 

I wanted to try Amplitube Leslie, but as I said, couldn't figure out how to get a working demo.

 

I then was able to briefly compare B5. When I bypassed its sim and listened to it alone or through one of the other sims, I preferred others. But when I tried it through its own sim... wow, very different, and very nice. I have to spend some more time with it, but it may be my favorite. AFAIK, you can't run anything else through its sim.

 

I definitely need to try this test again in a room with speakers as opposed to through headphones, I think that will give me a better visceral sense of how much any of them remind me of playing my old C/122.

 

[Doerfler]

I finally had a chance to download all the demos and do a bit of comparison.

thanks for taking the time to do this, Scott. very informative.

[midinut]

Yeah Scott, really helpful. Been a busy week and still haven't had time to play with Blue3 yet. Looking forward to it though!

 

LilyM, thanks for the update from Guido. After some of the things Scott had to say I may still pony up for the VB3 II upgrade. Then I'll have the best of both. lol

 

Listening to the demos of B5 I just wasn't that impressed compared to the others.

 

I also have MainStage/Logic's Vintage B3 and Arturia's B-3 and just have never felt like I did years ago when I played the real things. Of course two manuals and pedals would help the experience but what can I say? Been looking at the Mojos or the GSi DMC-22 (both have Guido's VB3 II in them) and even the overpriced Hammond XK5 system to give it that "authenticity'. But at over $11k it's too rich for my blood. I'd be better off finding a used B3/C3/A100 and a used Leslie and calling it a day (but it would stay at home and not be moved).

[AnotherScott]

Also, a real Leslies lets a little portion of the dry signal get through from behind the speakers

That doesn't make sense to me. Even comparing what's coming out of the front vs. what's coming out of the back, you can't have a speaker simultaneously spinning and not spinning. To combine a spinning and non-spinning sound IRL, you'd need to send the organ to a Leslie and some other speaker (or a second non-spinning Leslie) simultaneously.

 

There's also the question of what a "dry" signal is, when it comes to the Leslie, which brings me to...

The Cabinet parameter lets you adjust the amount of wooden cabinet that is mixed into the sound.

Even with no motion (as when braked), you still can't avoid the coloration of the amp/speaker/cabinet, so in a sense, braking is not "dry" of the entirety of the Leslie effect either. You can't alter (or "mix") how much wooden cabinet there is, except for having the louvres on or off.

[LilyM]

So I can't speak exactly to what Guido actually meant... but I do know that English is not his first language, and the context was to provide some tweaks to help decrease the intensity of the fast Leslie in VB3II.

 

I just assumed he meant there is a small amount of "dry" signal coming off the speakers that does not get directed into the horns or rotor. And he has a parameter to mix in more or less of that dry leak.

 

I don't think his reference to the cabinet was in relation to a dry signal, he was just pointing out another adjustable parameter that might help.

[LilyM]

...anyway, I was wondering how you got to test drive B5? I'd really like to try it but no demo that I am aware of.

 

After all my comparisons with Blue 3, and VB3 I & II, I think my final determination is that using Amplitube Leslie with any of them provides the biggest benefit, rather than any particular difference between them. By themselves I think they are all good and I like and dislike a few things in each.

 

On their own I think Blue 3 comes out on top just because the the fast Leslie in VB3II doesn't work for me at all. But there is a vague dryness or deadness to Blue 3, while both VB3 I & II are just a bit more alive. But these are small things (and probably personal things) and they all do the job quite well. And with further work under the hood, they all offer so much adjust ability I'm sure most things could be addressed adequately.

 

Ultimately I am content with VB3I for now..maybe getting Amplitube Leslie at some point..or hoping Guido updates the Leslie on II...or maybe Blue 3 gets nice update etc.

[Markyboard]

I finally had a chance to download all the demos and do a bit of comparison.

thanks for taking the time to do this, Scott. very informative.

 

[Baldwin Funster]

There is a standalone guido leslie vst you know. Its basically the same as the vb3 leslie but maybe better. Its a bit difficult to find but its out there.

[funkyhammond]

So I've been trying VB3II running through a demo of the AmpliTube Leslie (122). It sounds great except I noticed there was no front-stop option and confirmed that with a post on the IKM forum. They suggest playing with the room type and mic positions, but I still can't get away from sometimes getting a stop position with either muffled highs or a honky tone. Anyone using AmpliTube/T-RackS Leslie in stop mode and have figured out some settings to help smooth out the tonal variation at all?

[AnotherScott]

Amplitube Leslie is on sale for $35. It's a Labor Day sale, so presumably it will be at that price at least through Monday.

 

And to try the free demo (since I was not alone in not being able to figure it out), it turns out you first have to download the free Amplitube Custom Shop app, and then you initiate the free trial from within that app. Yup, there is no directly downloadable demo version, so if that's what you're looking for, you won't find it. ;-)

[KuruPrionz]

Amplitube Leslie is on sale for $35. It's a Labor Day sale, so presumably it will be at that price at least through Monday.

 

And to try the free demo (since I was not alone in not being able to figure it out), it turns out you first have to download the free Amplitube Custom Shop app, and then you initiate the free trial from within that app. Yup, there is no directly downloadable demo version, so if that's what you're looking for, you won't find it. ;-)

 

 

I think the TrackS Leslie is just $5 more right now, on sale too.

 

It works as a stand alone plugin.

I got it a couple of sales ago, more or less the same plugin but a nice difference even though I have Amplitube. Less stuff to open and poke around in.

 

There are a lot of sound variations there, it's worth trying on everything.

[AnotherScott]

Amplitube Leslie is on sale for $35.

 

 

I think the TrackS Leslie is just $5 more right now, on sale too.

 

Amplitube Leslie and T-RackS Leslie are each available for $35 each; or there is a bundle of both for $60.

 

My understanding was that the difference is only in the interface. Amplitube amps each have their own interface, designed to mimic the original; T-RackS amps share a common T-RackS interface. But I could easily be wrong about this.

[ElmerJFudd]

How are virtual B3 players getting high attack on their controllers since so few controllers send high attack in the key throw? What clones or controllers can send this over MIDI?

[KuruPrionz]

Amplitube Leslie is on sale for $35.

 

 

I think the TrackS Leslie is just $5 more right now, on sale too.

 

Amplitube Leslie and T-RackS Leslie are each available for $35 each; or there is a bundle of both for $60.

 

My understanding was that the difference is only in the interface. Amplitube amps each have their own interface, designed to mimic the original; T-RackS amps share a common T-RackS interface. But I could easily be wrong about this.

 

The Amplitube version requires hosting in Amplitube. IK insists on loading us up with unauthorized plugins that we can buy. So you have those to muddle through, or you can delete the ones you don't own, which is also tedious.

 

The TracksS Leslie works in TrackS but I've always just dropped it directly into my DAW without TrackS so it is also a stand alone.

I like that better, it's just much simpler.

[AnotherScott]

The Amplitube version requires hosting in Amplitube. IK insists on loading us up with unauthorized plugins that we can buy. So you have those to muddle through, or you can delete the ones you don't own, which is also tedious.

 

The TracksS Leslie works in TrackS but I've always just dropped it directly into my DAW without TrackS so it is also a stand alone.

I like that better, it's just much simpler.

Interesting. I wonder if there's any difference in resources required.

[AnotherScott]

How are virtual B3 players getting high attack on their controllers since so few controllers send high attack in the key throw? What clones or controllers can send this over MIDI?

Here ya' go...

 

https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3034832/clone-owners-please-report-which-send-high-trigger-midi

[KuruPrionz]

The Amplitube version requires hosting in Amplitube. IK insists on loading us up with unauthorized plugins that we can buy. So you have those to muddle through, or you can delete the ones you don't own, which is also tedious.

 

The TracksS Leslie works in TrackS but I've always just dropped it directly into my DAW without TrackS so it is also a stand alone.

I like that better, it's just much simpler.

Interesting. I wonder if there's any difference in resources required.

 

I don't have a way to compare the two so I honestly have no idea. I do like the simplicity of dropping it in directly. I'm not having any serious latency problems of any sort but I usually don't add plugins until all the tracks are recorded.

Then I set the latency way longer so it can process more stuffs without pops or crackling. So far so good.