Keith Emerson Sounds - is There a Moog Patch Book?

[iluvchiclets]

Hi everyone,

 

Not sure if there is something like this out there...

 

I have recently been listening to a few ELP records over and over, and I suddenly realized that deep down I am really just a Moog guy. I've flirted with lots of analog gear over the years (Moog, Dave Smith, Korg, Roland) but really what I want to hear is those gigantic, ripping Tarkus and Brain Salad Surgery Sounds. Do you know what I mean? Keith patched a certain way, very fundamental sounding and not too evolving, but very recognizable. (Hard to describe it properly...)

 

I own nothing Moog at the moment, but do have lots of "Moogy" things (Monark, The Legend, V collection, etc...)

 

As I go through all the different Moog software I own, for every ten that make me go "meh...whatever", there's that one patch where I go, "Oh yeah!" And I realized, lately, those patches that turn me on are of an invariably Keith Emerson flavor, or a retro/early/vintage sound.

 

I want to have that sound coming out of my keyboards all the time! Do any readers know of a patch book where I could learn/patch Keith Emerson's signature sounds?

 

Thanks in advance

[Moonglow]

And I realized, lately, those patches that turn me on are of an invariably Keith Emerson flavor...

Still, they turn you on? Sorry...

 

I remember when I purchased my first Minimoog there were some overlays that came with it that fit over the knobs, many of which were KE/ELP sounds. Probably still have them somewhere in my Moms basement...

 

Seems many synths have the obligatory Lucky Man patch, and Ive seen a few others over the years. I think the Kronos has a few. Seems I also recall Keyboard magazine intermittently publishing how to program some of them. Would be cool if there were a sort of comprehensive cookbook for these sounds.

[SeaGtGruff]

I thought I read somewhere sometime that Keith Emerson's original Moog was borrowed from someone else, and that Keith had to get the owner to program it for him? If that's correct, and that person is still alive, he would be the man to ask.

[mate stubb]

It's not that hard to patch a lot of those sounds. Getting your wheezomatic YamaRolaKorg to sound as fat as a Moog System III is another matter.

 

Try mostly open filter, 24db lowpass if ya got it, little to no resonance, and at least 2 oscillators in sawtooth, loosely tuned in unison and programmed for bad keyboard tracking if you have the resources.

 

Add glide (exponential or constant time if you have it) and play monophonically.

 

Add a third oscillator an octave down for variation.

[Tom Williams]

I thought I read somewhere sometime that Keith Emerson's original Moog was borrowed from someone else, and that Keith had to get the owner to program it for him? If that's correct, and that person is still alive, he would be the man to ask.

I think there's a little of both.

 

KE got a Moog modular near the end of their first album, and was hacking around with it while listening to Lucky Man; Producer Greg Lake said "Let's keep it."

 

KE also claimed that the minimoog patch for Hoedown was something of a happy accident.

 

That said, I think Will Alexander, Emerson's longtime keyboard tech (who also hosted Emerson when he was down and out) would be an authoritative source of patch info if anyone is. There is a GoFundMe page for his back surgery dating from January 2018.

 

Note that for the last 10 years or so of his life, Emerson did pretty much everything on Korg flagship workstations.

[Tom Williams]

I don't think I've ever replied right after I replied, but HERE is a short discussion of the Lucky Man patch (3 square waves) plus a couple of transcriptions, courtesy of Keyboard Magazine.

[Bobby Simons]

Probably not what you had in mind, but it might scratch that itch for a while:

Youll need an iOS device, the SynthMaster Player app, and the Historic Synth Giants, Vol. 2 preset pack. Some are closer than others, but its fun...

 

Keith Emerson patches

[Moonglow]

KE also claimed that the minimoog patch for Hoedown was something of a happy accident.

I thought the Hoedown patch was on the modular, as well.

 

That said, I think Will Alexander, Emerson's longtime keyboard tech (who also hosted Emerson when he was down and out) would be an authoritative source of patch info if anyone is.

Our very own dB also did some programming work for KE, on his Alesis gear IIRC.

 

[ksoper]

KE also claimed that the minimoog patch for Hoedown was something of a happy accident.

I thought the Hoedown patch was on the modular, as well.

 

That said, I think Will Alexander, Emerson's longtime keyboard tech (who also hosted Emerson when he was down and out) would be an authoritative source of patch info if anyone is.

Our very own dB also did some programming work for KE, on his Alesis gear IIRC.

 

I'm not aware of any way to get Hoedown out of a Minimoog. However, I got surprisingly close on a QS8.

[Marzzz]

I thought I read somewhere sometime that Keith Emerson's original Moog was borrowed from someone else, and that Keith had to get the owner to program it for him? If that's correct, and that person is still alive, he would be the man to ask.

My understanding was KE was inspired by the Switched On Bach album, and had met a Mike Vickers in England who already owned one. He played a concert or two with The Nice and used Vicker's Moog. When he ordered one, it came in a box with no instructions, so he had Vickers come by and show him how to use it.

[Tusker]

Do any readers know of a patch book where I could learn/patch Keith Emerson's signature sounds?

 

You have good taste.

 

You might enjoy this post by Gene Stopp, Keith's synth tech ... several years ago, when Keith was still alive. I found it really helpful when I was learning programming and I wanted to get THAT sound. RIP Keith.

 

Jerry

 

 

 

 

 

Oh come on Gene, we're not going to let you off THAT easy. Give us the gory details (we could use more words on modular synthesis here)!

 

Ow! Twist my arm! Oh okay. Here goes: first, see the chapter in Mark Vail's "Vintage Synthesizers" book about this machine if you want physical details about what's where. Okay, the main console near the bottom has all the main sound-producing modules in it. First there are three VCO's, each made from a 921A Oscillator Driver/921B Oscillator Slave pair. Now traditionally there are two or three 921B's for each 921A, but in here it's different. Under the VCO's are two CV routing/Mixer console panels (model = Console Panel #3). VCO 1 and 2 are controlled by the CV routing on the leftmost one, and VCO 3 is by itself on the CV routing of the rightmost one. Each CV routing panel has four switches on it, for switch control of system-wide CV's to control the attached VCO's. On this system, CV1 is the keyboard, CV2 is the ribbon controller, CV3 the the output of the sample & hold, and CV4 is external (separate per panel on a 1/4" jack). The VCF a few modules over also has a CV routing panel, except on this one CV4-external is a voltaged-controlled reversible attenuator that is controlled by the programmer upstairs as well as the panel knob. All of these CV routing panels as well as the S-trigger routing panels are an important part of live sound changes - I'll get back to these later.

 

The Mixers in the two console panels under the VCO's are voltage-controlled by the programmer upstairs with Vac-Tecs. The sawtooth outputs of the VCO's go to one mixer, and the square outputs plus noise go to the other. Both mixer outputs go to the VCF (which is modded for multiple inputs). The output of the VCF goes to a VCA and envelope generator to provide the main lead sound output. The sine wave output of VCO 3 bypasses the VCF and goes to its own VCA and envelope generator. Another envelope generator goes to the VCF reversible attenuator mentioned above, and yet another envelope generator goes to the CV4 input on the console panel that controls VCO's 1 and 2. All envelope times are controlled by the programmer upstairs, with Vac-Tecs on the time constant pots, so you have to turn them all up or else the front panel will override the programmability.

 

The envelope generator that sweeps VCO's 1 and 2 is used for the "Hoedown" sound - some attack, all sustain, no release. The program for this sound must be selected - VCO 1 tuned to the root, VCO 2 tuned to the fifth, VCO 3 tuned to the root and not swept by the envelope because it's on a different console panel CV routing thing. This envelope, with a different patch, is also used in "Aquatarkus" live for the falling tone thing, with attack = zero, sustain = 0, and decay = long.

 

Keith had a certain technique to get his long climbing pitch sweeps. The trick is to start at the low end of the keyboard, turn portamento up all the way, and then "walk" up the keys slowly. You can't just hit a low key then a high one, because since this is exponential portamento the pitch will just zoom up. This way he controlled the slow climb rate. Also he played legato but lifted keys enough to cause S-trigger glitches which would fire off the envelopes randomly during the climb.

 

We can use "Aquatarkus" live (I think it's on side 3 of the vinyl version of "Welcome Back My Friends...") to demonstrate all this stuff. First, assume VCO's 1, 2, & 3 into the VCF into the VCA, no modulation, all EG times = 0, all sustains = max, VCO 3 sinewave VCA/EG off (via console panel S-trig switch). Then:

 

*Beginning of song, organ intro, synth lead with VCO's tuned root-fourth-fifth.

 

* Change preset to VCO unison w/filter sweep

 

* Guitar chord/feedback during synth silence for re-configuration - disconnect VCO's 1 and 2 from all CV's so they sit at a low droning fifth interval, sample & hold at low sample rate through heavy lag randomly changing the VCF cutoff for a background "WWOOOOWWW" effect, VCO 3 sine wave solo turned on to play over this. The sample & hold also slowly triggers the main sound envelope, which has a long release, so that the drone is sustained. This goes on for a while, sine wave theme is from Dick Hyman's "Minotour", I believe.

 

* Solo ends, short silence while VCO's 1 and 2 are re-connected to CV1, the sample & hold infulence on the VCF and S-triggers is shut off, and delayed vibrato is added from some modules in the expansion cabinet above the main one (921 VCO at low frequency, gate-delayed envelope generator and mod depth VCA) and the patch is changed to VCO's in unison with the filter wide open and envelope times zero.

 

* Modular and Minimoog played together, in the typical Emerson "stretch both arms out and play two keyboards across from each other at the same time" style. The Minimoog is on top of the Hammond L-100, across from the C3/Modular setup.

 

* Solo gets a little delayed while "Hoedown" envelope generator is kicked in on VCO 1 and 2 CV4, set for attack = 0 and long falling decay, and portamento is set to max for the "walk up the keyboard". The EG fires off once in a while during the climb.

 

* VCO 1 and 2 EG mod turned off, solo ends. You may notice that the vibrato gets left on all the way to the end of the song.

 

Okay now it may appear that I have devoted my entire waking life to the pursuit of figuring out old ELP solos, but that's not the case! Believe me! I just happen to remember all of this from about five years ago. Okay I'll go on.

 

Regarding the ribbon controller - flip on CV2 on all console panels and the ribbon controller takes over. Oh yeah don't forget to enable it on the S-trig panel as well or the thing won't make any noise. Anyway during the ribbon controller solo in "Tarkus" (side 2, after "Stones of Years", I forget the name of the part) there's some "ray gun" noises produced by the ribbon controller - the pitch starts high and falls rapidly like repeated envelope triggers with attack = 0, decay = tiny, and sustain = 0. Here's the real story:

 

On the Moog 956 Ribbon Controller there is plastic coating on the metal ribbon to insulate it to keep the holding capacitor charge from being discharged by your finger so the pitch doesn't droop. Well on Keith's ribbon there is a gouge take out of the insulation about 7/8 of the way up, so if you touch this part the pitch will fall as the cap gets discharged through your finger. If you're comfortably sitting in a nice cozy living room playing the Moog it will discharge slowly. If you're on stage under hot lights sweating like a pig it will discharge quite rapidly. Press the ribbon down to the current strip and then let it up but keep your finger on the ribbon, and this is the effect. Now I don't know it this insulation was scraped away intentionally or if the ribbon got run over by a road case one day....

 

There's a few other things, like the sequencers controlling another voice made out of modules above the main console, or more esoteric FM effects, that are more subject to speculation so I can't be specific about those patches. I could ask Keith about it but 1) he probably won't remember and 2) he probably doesn't WANT to remember. One does get sick of things after a while, after all, even big Moogs.

 

Alright enough typing for now. Hope this was interesting....

 

- Gene

gstopp@fibermux.com"

 

link

[iluvchiclets]

Probably not what you had in mind, but it might scratch that itch for a while:

Youll need an iOS device, the SynthMaster Player app, and the Historic Synth Giants, Vol. 2 preset pack. Some are closer than others, but its fun...

 

Keith Emerson patches

 

Wow! That was cool to listen to! Thanks, that really satisfies my ears! I don't know if I want to invest money into all that, but I will read up on that product...

[iluvchiclets]

It's not that hard to patch a lot of those sounds. Getting your wheezomatic YamaRolaKorg to sound as fat as a Moog System III is another matter.

 

Try mostly open filter, 24db lowpass if ya got it, little to no resonance, and at least 2 oscillators in sawtooth, loosely tuned in unison and programmed for bad keyboard tracking if you have the resources.

 

Add glide (exponential or constant time if you have it) and play monophonically.

 

Add a third oscillator an octave down for variation.

 

This was actually very helpful - I rarely think of opening the filter "all-the-way" and I'm always over-thinking things when twisting knobs. Tonight I just set up two sawtooths and de-tuned them...very nice! I think that's what I was trying to describe in my original post, in that Keith wasn't really doing a lot of programming or modulation. Rather, he used basic tones and just let them rip. I think that fundamental sound is so appealing after swimming in modern electronica for so long...

[iluvchiclets]

I don't think I've ever replied right after I replied, but HERE is a short discussion of the Lucky Man patch (3 square waves) plus a couple of transcriptions, courtesy of Keyboard Magazine.

 

Thank you!

[iluvchiclets]

Do any readers know of a patch book where I could learn/patch Keith Emerson's signature sounds?

 

You have good taste.

 

You might enjoy this post by Gene Stopp, Keith's synth tech ... several years ago, when Keith was still alive. I found it really helpful when I was learning programming and I wanted to get THAT sound. RIP Keith.

 

Jerry

 

 

link

 

This is amazing stuff. Thank you so very much for sharing this. It will take me a bit to read, but I am looking forward to trying to understand it all...

[GRollins]

I haven't looked at this stuff recently, but I seem to recall counting seven(?) VCOs in Keith's Wall O' Moog at one point. Assuming that to be anywhere near correct, don't be surprised if you have trouble getting some of his sounds right with just three oscillators. Yes, you can get close, but...

 

Somewhere in my mental interpolations between Keith's rig and the contemplation of a symphony orchestra with 1st & 2nd violins, violas, cellos, basses, sundry woodwinds, brass, etc. playing in unison, I developed a concept I call "deep oscillators," an idea that has been the target of a bit of derision hereabouts. Screw 'em. I've currently got eleven oscillators on hand and love every minute of it. I was using six (simultaneously) earlier this afternoon.

 

You just can't get that richness of sound with three. Period.

 

Nature doesn't limit herself to an arbitrary number of oscillators when she makes sounds, so why should we? (okay, okay...other than cost...)

 

Grey

[mate stubb]

AFAIK, Keith never used more than three oscillators for any of his sounds live. Rather, he had the equivalent of 3 or more separate voices patched up at any one given time, and was switching between them.