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I have no faith with Behringer


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Im having my doubts about Behringer actually getting any new products too market. Aside from the Deepmind synths, the D and the Neutron. Uli keeps teasing stuff, but until I see concrete evidence, I am not having any faith. Its June 2019, and the MS-101 is still on Pre order, not that I have ordered one. There were complaints about the MIDI on the MS-101. Still nothing on the UB-XA, and now the Pro One is in Pre Production? Hey Beheringer get yourself together. Lets work on on synth at a time, instead of teasing us with a new CS-80 Clone.
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Its a great way for consumers to not buy others products by making one believe something cheaper is coming.

I dont wait for anyone.

And I still have a BCF2000, great products.

Returned my DM12. I tend to play for long periods of time.

Mine jumped octaves after so many hours.

 

Im waiting for products too.

But no longer pre order for cash.

 

You have something or you dont.

Magnus C350 + FMR RNP + Realistic Unisphere Mic
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Returned my DM12. I tend to play for long periods of time. Mine jumped octaves after so many hours.

 

Really?, I have had mine on for up to 8 hours and never experienced that. I can see how that could be annoying.

 

Mine I rarely touch the keys anymore. I have it connected to my SP6. I have about a dozen multi setups that use the DM12 and with the handy destination button I can seamlessly use either sound source or both. For the $699 sale price I bought it for I have been totally satisfied with it. Though the Novation summit really has my interest peaked!

Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12

Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell

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I know a number of people who love their mixers, and I personally recommend their u-phoria line of cheap interfaces...low latency, good build quality, fine mic pres (though not like I've done some comparison, just an impression!) never a single problem in a couple years.

 

Depends on the product I guess.

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It's actually my good experience with my DM12 that would make me consider these new synths should they see the light of day. No biggie in my life either way - but gotta admit it would be pretty cool to have an OB-Xa clone hanging around.

 

Maybe it's harder to reliably miniaturize and mass produce the circuitry of these analog bohemiths than Uli and the Midas team originally thought? I dunno... they never talk about hang-ups and snags - only constant promotion.

 

And that can get annoying.

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Do guitarists spurn Marshall amps because they started as a Fender Bassman ripoff? How many keyboardists are dropping Kurzweil specifically due to their adding DX7 compatibility? Clonewheels? Motion Sound?

 

Meh. If Uli makes good stuff that meets my needs, I'll buy it with a clear conscience.

 

I've had good luck with most of my Behringer stuff. Their cost-reduced Midas mixers (legit, because Uli purchased Midas) raised the price/performance bar, and other mixer makers followed suit.

 

As far as I can tell, the FCB1010 was not particularly derivative of others' work. It's a funny case, though, because its main value is in the 3rd party OS ROMs that correct Behringer's bugs.

 

Although I have not yet purchased one, I seem to read and hear pretty good reports on their MIDI-Minimoog clone.

 

-Tom Williams

{First Name} {at} AirNetworking {dot} com

PC4-7, PX-5S, AX-Edge, PC361

 

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All I know is, I keep reading about what Behringer wants too make next? Still no word on the UB-XA being released, and they are in pre production on the Pro One? What the heck?

 

At least when KORG decided too bring the ARP Odyssey back, they brought in David Friend from ARP, who was the original designer of the Odyssey. Same thing with the MS-20 Mini. KORG went to the original designers for the Original MS-20.

 

However, I dont see Uli doing this.

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Well, there was a problem with the MIDI on their MS-101 not working. Sure they got it fixed, Im just saying maybe they should do a little more R&D testing, before the released a product, but also stop with the teasing of what they want to do next?
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Chuck would not like to hear that one of his employees is blanket-bashing a company. And he could easily find the rep from your name, Paul.

 

Synths have always operating under an interesting marketing model. A company like Roland or Korg will announce a product that's been in the pipeline for 5 years at about 6 months prior to release , usually at NAMM. It makes sense since they want to deplete the inventory of the previous versions of whatever product they are announcing. Makes perfect sense. If you knew there was an Oasys/ Kronos coming out in two years, would you have purchased a Triton? This is not a criticism...this is how it works. that's why I laugh when I see people on Facebook absolutely livid about the price drop of Korg's Prologue because they bought it last month. I read a few people calling it "punishing the early adopter". Hahahaha.

 

But Behringer's marketing model is radically different. Yes, it feels too loose and amateurish, but let's just chalk that up to Uli being Uli. what's more interesting is his transparency early on in the prototyping process. As the esteemed Mike Martin mentioned to me, it has a suppressing effect on the original creators because there's no margin competing with Uli. To that, I would gently counter that it's not like Yamaha was unaware that the CS80 had a cult following all these years and they could have done something about it. Of course, I'm sure Yamaha mulled it over and realized that they couldn't make it feasible financially. But Uli can, for the most part. So in an open market, why shouldn't he? These designs are either not protected or their ip has expired, which is the whole point of copyrights and patents having expiration dates in the first place. I think the "audience" needs to understand the Behringer marketing strategy and that it's very different than any other MI company's strategy. I think a few of these items will never make it to market, but it will be because he doesn't want to financially, not because there is some moral or technological constraint.

"For instance" is not proof.

 

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I think Behringers OK, but Ive never tried any of their gear. They seem OK from the look of it.

Though I do want them to release an original FM keyboard synth with 6 operators like DX7 but with all of the TX-81z and SY77 waveforms. Id like to see that since Im a fan of the 80s FM harmonica, brass, electric piano and other sounds.

Yamaha MX49, Casio SK1/WK-7600, Korg Minilogue, Alesis SR-16, Casio CT-X3000, FL Studio, many VSTs, percussion, woodwinds, strings, and sound effects.
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Chuck would not like to hear that one of his employees is blanket-bashing a company. And he could easily find the rep from your name, Paul.

 

Synths have always operating under an interesting marketing model. A company like Roland or Korg will announce a product that's been in the pipeline for 5 years at about 6 months prior to release , usually at NAMM. It makes sense since they want to deplete the inventory of the previous versions of whatever product they are announcing. Makes perfect sense. If you knew there was an Oasys/ Kronos coming out in two years, would you have purchased a Triton? This is not a criticism...this is how it works. that's why I laugh when I see people on Facebook absolutely livid about the price drop of Korg's Prologue because they bought it last month. I read a few people calling it "punishing the early adopter". Hahahaha.

 

But Behringer's marketing model is radically different. Yes, it feels too loose and amateurish, but let's just chalk that up to Uli being Uli. what's more interesting is his transparency early on in the prototyping process. As the esteemed Mike Martin mentioned to me, it has a suppressing effect on the original creators because there's no margin competing with Uli. To that, I would gently counter that it's not like Yamaha was unaware that the CS80 had a cult following all these years and they could have done something about it. Of course, I'm sure Yamaha mulled it over and realized that they couldn't make it feasible financially. But Uli can, for the most part. So in an open market, why shouldn't he? These designs are either not protected or their ip has expired, which is the whole point of copyrights and patents having expiration dates in the first place. I think the "audience" needs to understand the Behringer marketing strategy and that it's very different than any other MI company's strategy. I think a few of these items will never make it to market, but it will be because he doesn't want to financially, not because there is some moral or technological constraint.

 

I wouldnt say bashing, just a suggestion. Maybe avoiding was too harsh a word. It was more about monitor speakers and not synths. Of course this was a few years ago.

 

I see where you are coming from zeronyne. All I am saying is, Uli might want too slow down on teasing new synth ideas, when some of the ones, he already has in the works, arent even in production stage. Although the Pro One is in pre production, no word on the UB-XA, and as for the MS-101, until the Tariffs the US has on China are lifted. It may be a long time before we see the MS-101 in the US. Im not trying to be Political here, this is just a statement.

 

As for me, I would love to own a new synth, but prefer to buy one that has been on the Market for a while, but get it at a decent price.

 

 

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If anyone thinks I am trying too bash Behringer I am not, however I do apologize.

Also, I apologize for saying a Sweetwater rep was blanket bashing a company, he was not. I may have chosen my words wrong. For that I am sorry. Sweetwater is an amazing company, and they do fantastic work. Never had a problem with them.

 

Also, i may have jumped too conclusions, without thinking first, for that I am sorry.

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As to quality, case by case basis with Behringer, or any other manufacturer for that matter. Ive probably had 5 different brands of mixers over the years, about three years into my XR18 and still pleased. Recommend by my Sweetwater rep. Come to think of it, I also have a TurboSound subwoofer Ive had four years and really like, owned by...you guessed it.
Steinway L, Yamaha Motif XS-8, NE3 73, Casio PX-5S, iPad, EV ZLX 12-P ZZ(x2), bunch of PA stuff.
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As to quality, case by case basis with Behringer, or any other manufacturer for that matter. Ive probably had 5 different brands of mixers over the years, about three years into my XR18 and still pleased. Recommend by my Sweetwater rep. Come to think of it, I also have a TurboSound subwoofer Ive had four years and really like, owned by...you guessed it.

 

Same thing here. I've had a XR-18R for about the same amount of time. It makes a great centerpiece to my studio where I can route pretty much anything to pretty much anything. My guitar bought one for us to use as our FOH mixer. I also own their subwoofers, mains, personal monitor for IEMs, and so on. I also have used the Presonus and QSC mixers that work off iPads and the same principal. The effects alone on the XR-18 are just better overall imho than the others. Plus it was hella cheaper! As always, your mileage may vary.

Hardware:
Yamaha
: MODX7 | Korg: Kronos 88, Wavestate | ASM: Hydrasynth Deluxe | Roland: Jupiter-Xm, Cloud Pro, TD-9K V-Drums | Alesis: StrikePad Pro|
Behringer: Crave, Poly D, XR-18, RX1602 | CPS: SpaceStation SSv2 | 
Controllers: ROLI RISE 49 | Arturia KeyLab Essentials 88, KeyLab 61, MiniLab | M-Audio KeyStation 88 & 49 | Akai EWI USB |
Novation LaunchPad Mini, |
Guitars & Such: Line 6 Variax, Helix LT, POD X3 Live, Martin Acoustic, DG Strat Copy, LP Sunburst Copy, Natural Tele Copy|
Squier Precision 5-String Bass | Mandolin | Banjo | Ukulele

Software:
Recording
: MacBook Pro | Mac Mini | Logic Pro X | Mainstage | Cubase Pro 12 | Ableton Live 11 | Monitors: M-Audio BX8 | Presonus Eris 3.5BT Monitors | Slate Digital VSX Headphones & ML-1 Mic | Behringer XR-18 & RX1602 Mixers | Beyerdynamics DT-770 & DT-240
Arturia: V-Collection 9 | Native Instruments: Komplete 1 Standard | Spectrasonics: Omnisphere 2, Keyscape, Trilian | Korg: Legacy Collection 4 | Roland: Cloud Pro | GForce: Most all of their plugins | u-he: Diva, Hive 2, Repro, Zebra Legacy | AAS: Most of their VSTs |
IK Multimedia: SampleTank 4 Max, Sonik Synth, MODO Drums & Bass | Cherry Audio: Most of their VSTs |

 

 

 

 

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...I may have chosen my words wrong. ...

 

You may have.

 

That's exactly how things get twisted easily on music forums. Obviously people questioned the integrity of that statement here, but if you actually received enough support, it could potentially turn into some kind of fact. It happens all the time.

 

To SW's credit...I've bought gears from them for schools, houses of worship and family and friends, and I've yet to hear anything remotely close to that. They've been extremely helpful with topnotch customer service.

 

I don't think I'll ever 'pre-order' anything from Behringer. I would not pre-order anything from Korg or Yamaha or Roland either. For software I will pre-order from Spectrasonics for sure.

www.youtube.com/c/InTheMixReviews
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...I may have chosen my words wrong. ...

 

You may have.

 

That's exactly how things get twisted easily on music forums. Obviously people questioned the integrity of that statement here, but if you actually received enough support, it could potentially turn into some kind of fact. It happens all the time.

 

To SW's credit...I've bought gears from them for schools, houses of worship and family and friends, and I've yet to hear anything remotely close to that. They've been extremely helpful with topnotch customer service.

 

I don't think I'll ever 'pre-order' anything from Behringer. I would not pre-order anything from Korg or Yamaha or Roland either. For software I will pre-order from Spectrasonics for sure.

 

Thank you Sam!

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Although I have not yet purchased one, I seem to read and hear pretty good reports on their MIDI-Minimoog clone.

 

I love mine. It's small enough to sit on the left side of my Kross88, but it sounds so big. Great bang for the buck.

Hardware

Yamaha MODX7, DX7, PSR-530, SY77/Korg TR-Rack, 01/W Pro X, Trinity Pro X, Karma/Ensoniq ESQ-1, VFX-SD

Behringer DeepMind12, Model D, Odyssey, 2600/Roland RD-1000/Arturia Keylab MKII 61

 

Software

Studio One/V Collection 9/Korg Collection 4/Cherry Audio/UVI SonicPass/EW Composer Cloud/Omnisphere, Stylus RMX, Trilian/IK Total Studio 3.5 MAX/Roland Cloud

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If anyone thinks I am trying too bash Behringer I am not, however I do apologize.

 

Apology accepted.

 

But I will not apologize for calling B******** a plagiarist, especially when they attempted to file a lawsuit seeking to silence behringer critics. When Joe Brandstetter had owned the trademark for Rhodes pianos after Harold passed away, he went too far in defending his product in that he completely alienated an entire community of potential buyers by threatening the fenderrhodes discussion group with legal threats. Uli had best learn from Brandstetter's example on how NOT to conduct customer relations.

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If anyone thinks I am trying too bash Behringer I am not, however I do apologize.

 

Apology accepted.

 

But I will not apologize for calling B******** a plagiarist, especially when they attempted to file a lawsuit seeking to silence behringer critics. When Joe Brandstetter had owned the trademark for Rhodes pianos after Harold passed away, he went too far in defending his product in that he completely alienated an entire community of potential buyers by threatening the fenderrhodes discussion group with legal threats. Uli had best learn from Brandstetter's example on how NOT to conduct customer relations.

 

Thank You for sharing that Article MC! Suing Dave Smith was not a wise idea. Besides,I love the products Dave has made, and hope to own one of his synths.

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But I will not apologize for calling B******** a plagiarist, especially when they attempted to file a lawsuit seeking to silence behringer critics.

 

Which is apparently the same line of thought the DSI employee followed when he continued to defame Behringer even though they had previously agreed to signed a cease and desist order. https://www.magneticmag.com/2018/06/behringer-responds-to-lawsuits-attempting-to-silence-critics-defends-reverse-engineered-synths/

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My sales rep at Sweetwater told me to avoid Behringer Completely!

Sweetwater has a Service Department, so they have a good record of "mean time between failure" statistics of the products they sell and have to service. I would pay close attention to what Sweetwater says. I bought my Ion from Sweetwater, it had the latest OS on it, and it still works.

 

I get a bunch of crapola from the kids that frequent Gearslutz when I Questioned the reliability of Behringer. I guess its blasphemy on Gearslutz.

 

The Novation Summit looks and sounds like a great synth. I had thought about buying the Peak, I like the sound and features. Now the Summit has been released. But I'm not working and even $2000 for me is out of reach.

 

 

Mike T.

Yamaha Motif ES8, Alesis Ion, Prophet 5 Rev 3.2, 1979 Rhodes Mark 1 Suitcase 73 Piano, Arp Odyssey Md III, Roland R-70 Drum Machine, Digitech Vocalist Live Pro. Roland Boss Chorus Ensemble CE-1.

 

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Im having my doubts about Behringer actually getting any new products too market. Aside from the Deepmind synths, the D and the Neutron. Uli keeps teasing stuff, but until I see concrete evidence, I am not having any faith. Its June 2019, and the MS-101 is still on Pre order, not that I have ordered one. There were complaints about the MIDI on the MS-101. Still nothing on the UB-XA, and now the Pro One is in Pre Production? Hey Beheringer get yourself together. Lets work on on synth at a time, instead of teasing us with a new CS-80 Clone.

 

Fair enough ... except these are not promises, but PR: by mentioning the (reportedly) 100 synths he has in mind, Uli keeps the Behringer brand name active in our minds.

 

Every synth has stages to go through which aren't done by the same teams of people, so there's nothing to be gained in working on one synth at a time, as you suggested. Some are still at Design, some in firmware, some are in beta testing, some are in production. Eventually, whatever can come out, will.

 

The MS-101 and VC340 are simultaneously in production and release. Yes, it takes a while to get them out everywhere. Sorta reminds me how my wife makes dinner -- she says it's ready, but what she really means is that it's done cooking, not that it's on plates and ready to eat.

 

The UB-Xa's last announced timeline was in November, when Uli said the firmware would take at least another year. So there's another six months before we can complain.

 

The DS-80 appears to be a response to Yamaha making an inquiry about what features people might like in a re-release. Featuring a CS-80 on the Behringer FB page was just a way of reminding everyone that they too have plans, even if the only progress so far is a name and some doctored photos.

 

The Pro One, the Solina, the Arp Odyssey (etc etc) ... it's all "in the works" at some level. Perhaps some of it will never become real. But the Model D, the DeepMind, the Neutron -- these prove their commitment to production.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not the gear, it's the player ... but hey, look -- new gear!

 

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