Digital piano with realistic action under $2000?

[zxcvbnm098]

I'd PM Mike Martin and see of you can find a dealer in or near Tallahassee that has the new Casio's. It's worth checking them out.

 

Having said that, I went to the Hollywood Guitar Center, the "flagship" GC. No Casio 3000. Unreal....

 

 

[ChopinAcolyte]

Okay, thanks for the advice. I just did.

[Tom Williams]

Yes, stay away from Williams, it's crap.

I find it difficult to not take that personally.

[ChopinAcolyte]

You're around 200 miles away but my friend Phil Magallanes , a Pro player in Clearwater, is selling his lightly used CP4 for $1200, local pickup only.

 

Thank you, it is very nice, but without a car 200 miles is as close as 250...

[drawback]

I've played a P-515 and agree with Mr. Ferris 100%.

[J. Dan]

Yes, stay away from Williams, it's crap.

I find it difficult to not take that personally.

 

Lol.....now, if I had said "especially, their Tom model, that one's the worst!", then that would be cause to take it personally.

[ChopinAcolyte]

I've played a P-515 and agree with Mr. Ferris 100%.

 

How good is the sound generation in P-515? Does it feature sympathetic resonance?

 

Edit: whoah, I actually read up on P-515 in more detail online, and I'm surprised! They sample from Bosendorfer Imperial (the famous 97 key grand), it comes with 256 notes of polyphony (Kawai CN-27 comes with 192) and you can actually play around with various types of resonance, not only sympathetic (weakly coupled oscillators) but also what they call "damper resonance" (I guess that would be when you hold down the sustain pedal and play one note, every note responds with an amplitude depending, again, on the ratio of the frequencies), aliquot resonance ("how much overtone you'd like", though I'm not sure why it affects only top three octaves) and body resonance. This sounds very good!

[Mighty Motif Max]

256 poly on the MP7SE and ES8 as well. It's nice that manufacturers are finally getting that number up higher than the 120/128 that has been standard for some time.

[Jazz+]

Bear in mind the Yamaha weighs 48 lbs and the Casio weighs 25 lbs. thats a deal breaker for me, what I mean is a back breaker. You can have 2 Casios for the price of the 515

 

[ChopinAcolyte]

Bear in mind the Yamaha weighs 48 lbs and the Casio weighs 25 lbs. thats a deal breaker for me, what I mean is a back breaker. You can have 2 Casios for the price of the 515

 

I don't care about the weight, it's for my home practice

[Kawai James]

256 poly on the MP7SE and ES8 as well.

 

...and a good selection of sound/resonance/noise adjustments via the Virtual Technician feature.

 

Kind regards,

James

x

[Al Quinn]

I'm looking for a digital piano under $2000 that simulates the action of an acoustic piano as faithfully as possible.

Based on your requirement I suggest getting the P-515 or a used CP4.

 

I have a CP4 and PX-S3000. The CP4 simulates the action of an acoustic piano quite well whereas the PX-S3000 falls short. I thought I might sell my CP4 when I bought the PX-S3000 but I'm going to continue using the CP4 for jazz gigs as it allows for more accurate playing on the back half of the keys. The PX-S3000's action is very good for the price and weight but the amount of force required to press a key toward the back half of the key does not simulate the action of an acoustic piano faithfully. I plan on using the PX-S3000 for blues and rock gigs where I don't except this shortcoming to matter much.

 

I don't mean to imply anything negative about the Kawai suggestions as I haven't played the Kawai keyboards myself and, therefore, can't comment either way.

[ChopinAcolyte]

Based on your requirement I suggest getting the P-515 or a used CP4.

 

...

 

Did you try P-515? I found the following on the internet (https://www.yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/action-on-cp40-compared-to-cp4):

 

I have tried both the CP40 and the CP4 in my home for 30 days each time. The action is completely different. The CP40 feels more accurate when playing classical piano music that requires wide variations in dynamics. I think adding wooden keys to the CP4 was a mistake and more of a marketing ploy because it feels like I am pushing a wood piano key that has been cut in half with no hammer on the other end. It is very distracting does not allow me to suspend my disbelief that it is not a real piano.

 

And this is what I'm concerned about. Natural Wood is not a full wooden key and even if it was, if the internal mechanism is not replicating a part of the real action, the overall feeling is not realistic.

[Al Quinn]

I have not played the P-515. Dave Ferris has a CP4 (and a Steinway D). He's played the P-515 and recommends it. I trust his opinion as he's an excellent player with a discerning ear.

 

 

[ChopinAcolyte]

I have not played the P-515. Dave Ferris has a CP4 (and a Steinway D). He's played the P-515 and recommends it. I trust his opinion as he's an excellent player with a discerning ear.

 

Thank you very much for your input

[Joe Muscara]

Choppy,

 

The Tallahassee GC doesn't carry the PX-1000, but it does carry the CDP-S100 and CDP-S350 and those actions are very similar to the PX-S1000. You could get an idea if it's a "no" or a "maybe" by trying the CDP-S350 though know that the PX-S1000 piano sound and action is much better.

 

Having said that, I went to the Hollywood Guitar Center, the "flagship" GC. No Casio 3000. Unreal....

I don't think any GCs have the PX-S3000 yet for some reason. The GC web site says it's coming on June 27th.

[motomike1961]

At approx. $1,750, you can't go wrong with the Kawai MP7se. I owed this board and the keybed along with their AP's sounds were very, very nice. The playing experience was excellent.

[ChopinAcolyte]

At approx. $1,750, you can't go wrong with the Kawai MP7se. I owed this board and the keybed along with their AP's sounds were very, very nice. The playing experience was excellent.

 

I tried googling, but I couldn't find nice and sturdy looking stand for that one (not the X type). Moreover, with the stand, triple pedal and bench, it probably goes over $2000 again, so CN-27 might be a better option (considering the action is the same: RH3)

[BenWaB3]

Don't know if this helps or obfuscates, but: My Kawai is a generation back, the MP-6. I long ago pulled the tag off the top key that states what type of action it is so it may or may not be the same as the new ones. I thought its action was better than any of the other brands at the time. Its acoustic piano sound is definitely not in love with The Space Station 3 but then none of the other brand's acoustic pianos mate well with the SS3 either. I had to sell my grand for room space reasons when I moved and ended up getting a Kawai upright. While it's a good piano I still do most of my practicing on the MP-6 because its action is more like a grand.

[Mighty Motif Max]

At approx. $1,750, you can't go wrong with the Kawai MP7se. I owed this board and the keybed along with their AP's sounds were very, very nice. The playing experience was excellent.

 

I tried googling, but I couldn't find nice and sturdy looking stand for that one (not the X type). Moreover, with the stand, triple pedal and bench, it probably goes over $2000 again, so CN-27 might be a better option (considering the action is the same: RH3)

 

I recommend either a "tabletop"-style stand or a Z-stand.

[jimkost2002]

I've played a P-515 and agree with Mr. Ferris 100%.

 

How good is the sound generation in P-515? Does it feature sympathetic resonance?

 

Edit: whoah, I actually read up on P-515 in more detail online, and I'm surprised! They sample from Bosendorfer Imperial (the famous 97 key grand), it comes with 256 notes of polyphony (Kawai CN-27 comes with 192) and you can actually play around with various types of resonance, not only sympathetic (weakly coupled oscillators) but also what they call "damper resonance" (I guess that would be when you hold down the sustain pedal and play one note, every note responds with an amplitude depending, again, on the ratio of the frequencies), aliquot resonance ("how much overtone you'd like", though I'm not sure why it affects only top three octaves) and body resonance. This sounds very good!

 

Trust me, the P515 sounds like your best bet. If you are going for a straight acoustic piano replication, you cant get much better. Also, long term durability is highest in Yamaha

[AnotherScott]

Also, if you thrive on the soundboard vibrations through the keys of an acoustic piano, no digital will replace that.

but getting a model with speakers built in can help a lot here.

 

256 poly on the MP7SE and ES8 as well. It's nice that manufacturers are finally getting that number up higher than the 120/128 that has been standard for some time.

For piano playing alone (as opposed to extensive layering or sequencing), I've rarely seen polyphony make a difference. It's also hard to compare because the implementation and voice stealing algorithms vary as well. A time it did make a difference was with the original Korg Kross at 80 polyphony, because its main piano sound used 4 instances of polyphony per key, with a simple FIFO note stealing algorithm, so you ran out after 20 notes which was not too hard to do. OTOH, it was basically impossible for me to coax a dropped note out of the Yamaha NP-30 which had only 32 polyphony (it performed better than the Yamaha MO-X with 64). But for piano alone, I doubt most people would ever notice any issue with any board that had 128.

 

Getting back to the main question in the subject line, there's also the issue that real acoustic pianos vary in feel, so what are you comparing it to? I played a Kawai MP10 which arguably was pretty realistic, but had quite a heavy feel. So I'd say maybe it was realistic if I compared it to the Kawai baby grand I played at a gig, but not at all like the Yamaha G3 baby grand I played at another gig, which was super light. (Neither were among my favorites, they were at two Goldilocks extremes.)

[ApprenticeGary]

I just "downgraded" from a CP4 to a Roland fp30. (Pior to Cp4, I played a Roland FP4 at home and gigged on a yamaha grand almost daily.) I couldn't belive the Fp30 has such a more piano-like action to me than the CP4. During the one year of owning the Cp4, I struggled to warm to it(sound and action) but with no success. The Fp30 also gives your finger some good workout. Switching from it to the yamaha grand I gig on is effortless. Also, I can play some classical pieces on the Fp30 with ease, while it seems impossible on Cp4(It may be just me.).I also own a Kawai ES 8,which is a beautiful instrument (better sounding than the Cp4 IMHO). But its key action is a little bit too light for a practice board, though it plays beautifully as a gigging board. So now the FP30 has my favorite action among the 3.

Now I'm a Roland guy again, and I wonder how much better the FP90 and RD2000 are than the FP30(With my respect to all the fellow mumbers' opinion here, I have to try these myself and sincerely I think you should , too ).

 

[ChopinAcolyte]

For piano playing alone (as opposed to extensive layering or sequencing), I've rarely seen polyphony make a difference. It's also hard to compare because the implementation and voice stealing algorithms vary as well. A time it did make a difference was with the original Korg Kross at 80 polyphony, because its main piano sound used 4 instances of polyphony per key, with a simple FIFO note stealing algorithm, so you ran out after 20 notes which was not too hard to do. OTOH, it was basically impossible for me to coax a dropped note out of the Yamaha NP-30 which had only 32 polyphony (it performed better than the Yamaha MO-X with 64). But for piano alone, I doubt most people would ever notice any issue with any board that had 128.

 

Oh, okay, gotcha, this bit sounds definitely useful, will keep it in mind if someone tries to sell me something more expensive arguing by polyphony alone.

 

Getting back to the main question in the subject line, there's also the issue that real acoustic pianos vary in feel, so what are you comparing it to? I played a Kawai MP10 which arguably was pretty realistic, but had quite a heavy feel. So I'd say maybe it was realistic if I compared it to the Kawai baby grand I played at a gig, but not at all like the Yamaha G3 baby grand I played at another gig, which was super light. (Neither were among my favorites, they were at two Goldilocks extremes.)

 

I played a lot of Yamaha uprights at the local music school, which all have about the same feel to it (medium) and also practice Steinway grand which I found super heavy. I would prefer something between those two, as I don't want my hands to get accustomed to something light, when I will find playing real pianos super hard afterwards.

 

I just "downgraded" from a CP4 to a Roland fp30. (Pior to Cp4, I played a Roland FP4 at home and gigged on a yamaha grand almost daily.) I couldn't belive the Fp30 has such a more piano-like action to me than the CP4. During the one year of owning the Cp4, I struggled to warm to it(sound and action) but with no success. The Fp30 also gives your finger some good workout. Switching from it to the yamaha grand I gig on is effortless. Also, I can play some classical pieces on the Fp30 with ease, while it seems impossible on Cp4(It may be just me.).I also own a Kawai ES 8,which is a beautiful instrument (better sounding than the Cp4 IMHO). But its key action is a little bit too light for a practice board, though it plays beautifully as a gigging board. So now the FP30 has my favorite action among the 3.

Now I'm a Roland guy again, and I wonder how much better the FP90 and RD2000 are than the FP30(With my respect to all the fellow mumbers' opinion here, I have to try these myself and sincerely I think you should , too ).

 

Interesting, I found the action of Roland FP-90 similar to Yamaha lower P-series (115, 125), i.e. not particularly enjoyable. So, I wouldn't expect FP-30 to be performing any better (if higher number = better instrument).

 

 

Kawai CN-27 still looks good in my book, I touched it and the local Kawai dealer offers 10 year warranty (provided there's no catch to it). I will see how long the warranty is on Yamaha P-515 once I get to try it at the shop.

 

With DPs I seen a lot of threads/videos describing/showing bugs in action, velocity sensitivity etc. I want to buy something that will last long and if not, at least they will repair it in case something shows up.

[Tripp323]

I agree with BenWaB3... if you are not going to lug it around... then the Kawai MP series have a great action.

[chigson]

 

@chigson - does it simulate sympathetic resonance, or is it matter of the software one uses to produce the sound?

Late to the party, but yes, it's a matter of software.