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Running into FOH from powered speaker XLR out


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So to save brining a separate mixer to my prison ministry gigs, I have been running a feed to the FOH by using the XLR out of one of my Yamaha DXR 10 powered speaker. However, my bandmate who runs the sound has said that my signal is so hot that he has to leave the fader almost off and it is still too loud. Would running this first into a DI box with a DB cut be the way to resolve this? Other things I should try? Thanks for any help you can offer.
Nord Stage 3 Compact, Korg Kronos 61, Casio PX-5S, Yamaha DXR 10 (2)), Neo Vent, Yamaha MG82cx mixer and too many stands to name.
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I've had this issue w/ one club that does house sound. I recently joined another band and we run everything through FOH. The soundman tells me that the signal is too hot from the XLR out of the speaker. Everyone else I deal with can manage the output OK. No one ever complains about the signal coming from a DI connected to my mixer so now I just go this route.

57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn

Delaware Dave

Exit93band

 

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A few things here.

 

Would running this first into a DI box with a DB cut be the way to resolve this?

Yes.

The output of the speaker is XLR. What DI box has an XLR input? I may be getting schooled soon, but I have never seen one. Kinda defeats the purpose of a DI box, I would think.

 

Also: is the DXR output after a gain stage in the speaker? That may be why the sound board is overloading. My QSC K8 has two XLR outputs: one is "direct", or just a pass-through of whatever is at the input like a DI box's "thru" (but not isolated). They call the other one a "mix" output and that output will have gain applied if you set the volume control past unity gain.

 

The other thing that's been mentioned is a pad at the board. Of course I don't have knowledge of every sound board out there but most of them have an "input trim" control as well as possibly a pad switch. Unless you're really killing that input, I would think that a board could accomodate what you're sending so this might be pilot error on the part of the sound person.

 

One other thing worth mentioning is that connecting to a board via direct XLR can be hazardous to your speaker's health if phantom power is enabled on the mixer. It killed one of my old Mackie SRM450 speakers years ago.

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A few things here.

 

Would running this first into a DI box with a DB cut be the way to resolve this?

Yes.

The output of the speaker is XLR. What DI box has an XLR input? I may be getting schooled soon, but I have never seen one. Kinda defeats the purpose of a DI box, I would think.

 

Also: is the DXR output after a gain stage in the speaker? That may be why the sound board is overloading. My QSC K8 has two XLR outputs: one is "direct", or just a pass-through of whatever is at the input like a DI box's "thru" (but not isolated). They call the other one a "mix" output and that output will have gain applied if you set the volume control past unity gain.

 

The other thing that's been mentioned is a pad at the board. Of course I don't have knowledge of every sound board out there but most of them have an "input trim" control as well as possibly a pad switch. Unless you're really killing that input, I would think that a board could accomodate what you're sending so this might be pilot error on the part of the sound person.

 

One other thing worth mentioning is that connecting to a board via direct XLR can be hazardous to your speaker's health if phantom power is enabled on the mixer. It killed one of my old Mackie SRM450 speakers years ago.

 

Exactly what I do too.

But sometimes the Snake needs a certain connection and Ill use the Henry Engineering PatchBox II.

Well designed port multiplier.

 

Maybe the Yammy doesnt have pass through, but even my Behring B1200D Sub has pass thru sends.

Magnus C350 + FMR RNP + Realistic Unisphere Mic
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Sounds like you are using the LINK XLR out at the bottom of the panel. This is a line-level output, and is intended primarily to link to another DXR speaker (with that input set to LINE rather than MIC level).

 

Try using the THRU jack on the back of the DXR as your output instead. Although it visually looks like it will only pass-through the XLR input, if memory serves it actually serves as a MIC level output of anything input in the DXR. I'm not 100% sure of this, but I thought I was able to use it that way in the past.

 

Tim

 

..
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Here's a cheap Pyle DI I've used to do this.

 

Yamaha speaker's XLR out into Pyle XLR in. You will also need an XLR adapter. The pad has -20 or -40 dB cut. The output will be 1/4" going into FOH.

 

Nice thing about this cheap workhorse is that it's 2 DIs in one, and with each side having a 1/4" in as well as out 1/4" out, there's all kinds of use case situations this will be handy in, such as splitting signals.

 

Of course there are other ways to do this as well, such as using an inline attenuator. But a dual DI with XLR adapters can be a quick fix.

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Sound like it could be on the mixer side not your side. You are using the Thru out XLR and sending to FOH. I would bet he had you signal going into a Mic channel not to a Line level. So the Line level is too hot to go into a Mic input.

 

He's probably seeing an XLR and treating it like a mic.

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Many inexperienced FOH people typically equate XLR with a MIC level output. My old Roland RD-700SX had balanced XLR outs at line level. Had those same sorts of problems with many FOH guys telling me my signal was too hot. I would tell them it's line level and just get a confusing look back. Thats why now, for many years, I always bring a stereo DI (Radial JDI duplex) and convert to MIC level. Its the great equalizer and makes my setup less confusing for them. If the FOH is ok for stereo, I can accommodate that. If they only want mono, no problem just need to switch to mono patches and route accordingly.

 

A good FOH guy usually understands the keys are line level and if a keyboard or powered speaker mixer offers balanced XLR might choose to take it direct to avoid using another DI.

 

A good DI is also invaluable to isolate the inevitable ground loop that can appear. Especially if the FOH guy is less experienced, I can control it all on my end.

 

Another cheaper approach is to get a good quality XLR to 1/4" balanced TRS converter. This way the FOH guy sees a 1/4" jack and immediately equates it with line level. Most of the cheaper mixing boards also equate the 1/4" inputs with line level. However this won't protect ground loops.

Mills Dude -- Lefty Hack
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Sounds like you are using the LINK XLR out at the bottom of the panel. This is a line-level output, and is intended primarily to link to another DXR speaker (with that input set to LINE rather than MIC level).

 

Try using the THRU jack on the back of the DXR as your output instead. Although it visually looks like it will only pass-through the XLR input, if memory serves it actually serves as a MIC level output of anything input in the DXR. I'm not 100% sure of this, but I thought I was able to use it that way in the past.

.

 

 

 

Tim

 

Thanks everyone for your feedback. I now have some ideas for possible solutions that I had not thought to try

 

Tim, you are correct in that I have used the LINK out to send my sound to the snake. Usually, I monitor in stereo. I use inputs 2/3 of the first DXR and connect to the second DXR via the LINK out of first to Input 1 of the second. I set the first DXR LINK to stereo. I then go out of the second DXR LiNK set to mono to the snake. At my last concert I used a single DXR. I wonder if the THRU of the second DXR would be the way to go as you suggested. Would this not be a summed collapse of the stereo signal, or would be just the right input signals from the first DXR?

 

I dont think the mixer has a pad button, but believe the input trim was reduced by my bandmate, but this does not seem to help. I should also note that we have used this method a fair bit, but we do not experience the gain issue at all concerts.

 

Thanks again for everyones input.

 

 

Nord Stage 3 Compact, Korg Kronos 61, Casio PX-5S, Yamaha DXR 10 (2)), Neo Vent, Yamaha MG82cx mixer and too many stands to name.
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Why not just run the keys into a DI directly, then take the thru signal to your personal monitor and the XLR out to the FOH/main board?

 

Added bonus is you isolate both your keys and your speaker from the FOH - in case a phantom power is switched on by accident or some weird ground loop.

 

Thats what i always do. A lot of DIs have an attenuators switch if you are really running that hot from your keys.

The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it.
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If FOH has an extra monitor mix you could send your Keys DI to FOH and have him send you a monitor mix. It is especially nice when they have a digital board and router you can hook your smart phone/iPad into so you control your own mix. I do this with several bands with either a powered speaker or IEM.

 

Jimmy

 

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. Groucho

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