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Warning for Kronos owners w/ a Prophet Rev2 #2990553 05/21/19 04:32 PM
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psionic11 Offline OP
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Beware using a DSI Rev2 when connected to your Kronos!

If you press both the SPLIT and STACK buttons at the same time on the Rev2, it will send out a string of random commands that will instantly scramble and write over several of your Kronos combis!

In other words, one simple 2-button combo on the REV2 affected over a half dozen of my combis by changing some random timbres to EXi INITs.

Worse, it hard saved all those changes instantly. evil

Reboots didn't fix anything, and I tested it again. There go hours of changes!
I'm pretty upset. I haven't backed up my Kronos in a couple months, so I've got to put in lots of hours to fix this. ](*,)

At least this didn't happen right before a gig, I've got about a week to sort it all.

KC Island
Re: Warning for Kronos owners w/ a Prophet Rev2 [Re: psionic11] #2990557 05/21/19 05:42 PM
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Radagast Offline
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Did you post this on the Kronos forum? It needs to be there too!

Re: Warning for Kronos owners w/ a Prophet Rev2 [Re: Radagast] #2990560 05/21/19 06:14 PM
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psionic11 Offline OP
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Yes, cross posted there, Sequential, and Gear Slutz.

Re: Warning for Kronos owners w/ a Prophet Rev2 [Re: psionic11] #2990638 05/22/19 04:13 AM
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You should notify DSI about this. It must be a bug. As far as I know, these kinds of commands should by System Exclusive, which means ignored by all other kinds of gear.


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Re: Warning for Kronos owners w/ a Prophet Rev2 [Re: marczellm] #2990648 05/22/19 08:40 AM
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Like most here, I'm sure, I feel your pain of losing hours of custom programming. And hopefully unlike me, it'll only take one such occurrence to develop a more regular and disciplined backup routine!


Somehow I manage to con people into paying me to play with toys that make noise.
Re: Warning for Kronos owners w/ a Prophet Rev2 [Re: mcgoo] #2990677 05/22/19 12:59 PM
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psionic11 Offline OP
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I usually try to back up at the beginning of every month, but I missed Apr and May. Luckily Mar backup had most everything.

I tried this morning to capture in MIDI-Ox what the Rev2 is sending during a SPLIT|STACK write command, but I got no data. I don't want to spend much time trying to chase down a bug, when I need get those combis up to snuff before next gig.

You can bet I will backup more now, esp after any changes. Kronos has no shortage of storage space.

Re: Warning for Kronos owners w/ a Prophet Rev2 [Re: marczellm] #2991034 05/24/19 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted By: marczellm
You should notify DSI about this. It must be a bug. As far as I know, these kinds of commands should by System Exclusive, which means ignored by all other kinds of gear.


Pretty certain thry're NRPNs; NR being Non Registered.

Re: Warning for Kronos owners w/ a Prophet Rev2 [Re: Markyboard] #2991037 05/24/19 10:55 AM
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Could it be an undocumented diagnostic function?


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Re: Warning for Kronos owners w/ a Prophet Rev2 [Re: Wastrel] #2991045 05/24/19 11:46 AM
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zeronyne Offline
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I hate to ask this, but is it repeatable? After you back up your Kronos, you may want to try it again so you can provide Sequential with a clear sequence of events. If it's something specific to your machine and not all Rev2s, they won't be able to see it.


"For instance" is not proof.
Re: Warning for Kronos owners w/ a Prophet Rev2 [Re: zeronyne] #2991048 05/24/19 12:05 PM
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I don't think the Kronos would actually overwrite things in memory in response to standard MIDI messages, including NRPN's.

SysEx on the other hand is designed to be able to do data dumps. There are lots of safeguards in place to prevent things like this - namely unique Manufacturer ID, Device ID, and Checksum.

That said, I looked at the MIDI Association list of Manufacturer ID's (CLONK). I could not find Dave Smith Instruments or DSI in that list, so I would be curious what they are using for their Manufacturer ID. Korg is 42H. If DSI is the same, that would be a problem. Even in that case, if you can go in and change your Device ID to something different, that should prevent the problem in the future.


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: Warning for Kronos owners w/ a Prophet Rev2 [Re: J. Dan] #2991169 05/25/19 08:04 AM
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I would not question that something happened to your sounds, but this makes no sense to me. Any messages sent from the Rev2 would only affect the current sound on the Kronos. And it would not write changes into the memory. The technology doesn’t/can’t work that way...

Sys Ex wouldn’t affect a different brand product. NRPN’s (which DSI uses a lot), could change parameters, as could CC’s. Looking at some DSI products they certainly use different CC assignments than Korg, so changes made to, or sent by a Rev2 will not affect the same parameters on your Kronos. So they will do some very different things, seemingly random things to the Korg.

But those changes would not be written into memory. And would not change multiple Combis all at once.

Something else is afoot, or happened...

Jerry

Re: Warning for Kronos owners w/ a Prophet Rev2 [Re: psionic11] #2991171 05/25/19 08:22 AM
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Re: Warning for Kronos owners w/ a Prophet Rev2 [Re: Synthoid] #2991192 05/25/19 11:58 AM
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psionic11 Offline OP
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It doesn't make any sense to me either, from what I know of how MIDI is supposed to work.

All I know is that I was in Set List mode on the Kronos, and my Rev2 was in Split mode over channels 2 and 3, as it always is. I have my most recent corrections saved, so I felt comfortable enough to pull up the screwed up PCG. Here's a quick catalog of what happened to the various combis in the Set List slot:

48 3 am - no change
49 Gig Piano and Organ - no change
50 Eagle Space Intro
- 4 timbres converted to INIT EXi User AA 54, 61, 54, 73
- timbres 1, 5, 6, 10 all on channel 01G
51 Fly Like an Eagle
- 3 timbres changed to INIT EXi User AA 54, 66, 62
- all three timbres on 01G
52 Just What I Needed
- 5 timbres changed to INIT EXi User AA 51, 51, 19, 19, 42
- changed timbres on channels 3, 1, 1, 2, 2
53 Time
- one change to INIT EXi User AA 77
- timbre is on channel 1
54 Spirit of Radio
- timbre 1 changed to INIT EXi USer AA 72, on ch1
55 Rebel Yell - no change
56 Sweet Emotion - no change
57 Footloose - no change
58 1984 - no change
59 Jump
- 2 timbres changed to INIT EXi User AA 9 and 34, both on ch1
60 Sex on Fire - no change
61 Power of Love - fixed now, but I think this had 2 changes to INIT Exi
62 Motorcop - no changes
63 Subdivisions - fixed now, but I think also had 2 changes to INIT Exi

So it wasn't completely random. All the affected timbres were changed to INIT EXi User AA programs, mostly on channel 1 but a couple on ch2 and/or ch3.

The bizarre thing is that SYSEX send/receive is not enabled on the Kronos. I only have Program Change, After Touch, and Control Change enabled.

On the Rev2, I'm pretty sure I had MIDI Parameter Send disabled as well. But I captured no data in MIDI OX pressing the SPLIT|STACK write button combo. After enabling Parameter Send, a host of data was captured, sending out on channels 1, 2, and 3. I posted the data in the Rev2 forums.

Anyhow, whatever technical glitch caused this, the damage is done. It's been at times a frustrating experience getting my Kronos, Rev2, and Integra to play well together. Everything is going through a Mio4, so that may have also thrown a wrench into the works.

Lesson learned: backup often.


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