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Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? #2975747 02/14/19 04:16 PM
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polo Offline OP
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Anyone able to voice/produce the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony by The Verve on a Yamaha keyboard?

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Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: polo] #2975826 02/15/19 02:58 AM
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Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: zxcvbnm098] #2975888 02/15/19 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: zxcvbnm098


I saw that one - it sounds nothing like a violin, much less the violins from Bitter Sweet Symphony... frown

Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: polo] #2975983 02/15/19 08:16 PM
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Music Bird Offline
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You might need a Roland XP-50 or XP-60. They used thosd live during the 90ís for their songs to play the orchestra samples. Even those arenít close, in this case Iíd just double the violin sound with a string ensemble sound.


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Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: polo] #2976002 02/15/19 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted By: polo
Originally Posted By: zxcvbnm098


I saw that one - it sounds nothing like a violin, much less the violins from Bitter Sweet Symphony... frown


When I saw your original post and it said "voice/produce", I took that to mean the voicing of the parts, which that video showed. And you said "Yamaha keyboard", which that was. Even though that was a relatively inexpensive keyboard, I thought that it was a decent representation quite frankly of that tune.

As Music Bird mentioned, that part on the actual song itself was a sample of a symphonic recording. It's only going to sound so good played on keyboard. (To my ears, it sounds like more recently they just play the full sample of the recording when they do it live-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GnWRjoP9mQ)

So, if you know how to play it, and you're only looking for a better and more accurate sound, you need to tell us what kind of Yamaha keyboard you're using?

Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: Music Bird] #2976003 02/15/19 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: Music Bird
You might need a Roland XP-50 or XP-60. They used thosd live during the 90ís for their songs to play the orchestra samples.


Citation required, otherwise I call malarky.

The Verve played to prerecorded tracks specifically for that song, if not everything.



"Do you see over yonder, friend Sancho, thirty or forty hulking giants? I intend to do battle with them and slay them."
Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: zxcvbnm098] #2976005 02/15/19 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: zxcvbnm098
So, if you know how to play it, and you're only looking for a better and more accurate sound, you need to tell us what kind of Yamaha keyboard you're using?


Oh, sorry, I guess that would help smile

Yamaha Montage 8/MODX8.

Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: polo] #2976006 02/15/19 10:15 PM
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I think the guy in this video sort of has the sound close - it just needs more tweaking...?


Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: polo] #2976015 02/15/19 11:00 PM
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WesG Offline
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Tonally, the guy in the video isn't even close, but that doesn't really matter, because he's playing it in a way that serves the song.

The biggest problem with his sound, to my ears, is that his patch's attack is too slow, and it doesn't differentiate between the tonal quality of the violins/violas/cellos.


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Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: WesG] #2976021 02/15/19 11:54 PM
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Bill H. Offline
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Lifted from Wikipedia (apologies):

...its distinctive passage for strings was sampled from the 1965 Andrew Oldham Orchestra symphonic recording of "The Last Time"

The Verve relinquished all of their royalties to Allen Klein, owner of ABKCO Records, whilst songwriting credits were changed to Jagger/Richards/Ashcroft.

In an interview with Uncut magazine, Oldham stated, "As for Richard Ashcroft, well, I don't know how an artist can be severely damaged by that experience. Songwriters have learned to call songs their children, and he thinks he wrote something. He didn't. I hope he's got over it. It takes a while."


If you want to do the song, the simplest thing to do would be to sample the loop like the Verve did, but watch out for Allen Klien. cop

Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: Bill H.] #2976029 02/16/19 01:50 AM
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One of the biggest, most egregious musical faux pas of the last 30 years. That sample was the hook of the song, that song was The Verve's biggest hit and launched their career, hence The Verve would have been nothing without that sample. Their entire career was built on a lie. IMO, this is way worse than almost any other musical rights case in recent history.

I had a band that used to play this song, but we had a fiddle player, which was very cool. I didn't learn about the legal history until later... I will never play it again if I have anything to say about it.


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Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: EricBarker] #2976032 02/16/19 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted By: EricBarker
One of the biggest, most egregious musical faux pas of the last 30 years.


this vid sheds some light on this topic (it's not as simple as one might think)



A reason why I collect old keyboards is that I feel partly responsible for doing it, responsible for preserving history and being a custodian for these things
Plus, old gear has a story. I like that.
Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: davedoerfler] #2976054 02/16/19 10:01 AM
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I actually feel sorry for The Verve now. And The Staples Singers.

And hate the record industry even more now.


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Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: WesG] #2976061 02/16/19 11:25 AM
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I play it somewhat like this dude on my Kronos. Like WesG mentioned, itís important to get the different string sections correctly mapped. Perhaps the video will provide some insights you can transfer to your Montage or MODX.




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Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: Moonglow] #2976073 02/16/19 01:20 PM
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Fascinating story...


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Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: Sundown] #2976081 02/16/19 02:58 PM
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Yeah The Verve got royally screwed...

Last edited by polo; 02/16/19 02:58 PM.
Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: polo] #2976082 02/16/19 03:04 PM
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It's just hard to believe that after all this time - and how popular this song was/is - and mostly for the violin(s) riff - that no one has come up with a good clone of that great sound.

There is a good clone of the violin in the song Come On Eileen for cripes sakes, lol.

At :55-1:15


Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: polo] #2976131 02/17/19 01:11 AM
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Related but different: anyone aced Coldplayís Viva La Vida strings riff?

Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: Fleer] #2976690 02/20/19 04:23 PM
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Ive been playing that song in a cover band of mine for the past 7 years or so. This is a simple multi I setup in my PC3x using only factory string sounds. The left hand has weird splits and transpositions to be able to play the proper voicings with only one hand. It may not be the exact right sound but it definetly captures the vibe and sounds great live.





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Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: Ian Benhamou] #2976717 02/20/19 05:45 PM
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Damn Ian, that sounds awesome!!

Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: zxcvbnm098] #2976751 02/20/19 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: zxcvbnm098
Damn Ian, that sounds awesome!!


just watched and agree. thu


A reason why I collect old keyboards is that I feel partly responsible for doing it, responsible for preserving history and being a custodian for these things
Plus, old gear has a story. I like that.
Re: Anyone able to voice the violins in Bitter Sweet Symphony? [Re: polo] #2990969 05/23/19 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: polo
Yeah The Verve got royally screwed...


new twist to this story
Not Bitter, Just Sweet: The Rolling Stones Give Royalties To The Verve

https://www.npr.org/2019/05/23/726227555...es-to-the-verve


A reason why I collect old keyboards is that I feel partly responsible for doing it, responsible for preserving history and being a custodian for these things
Plus, old gear has a story. I like that.

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