zephonic Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 I have a rental Yamaha T-118 upright, and never liked how it sounded. I always suspected the (store-recommended) piano tech had something to do with it, so today I had another guy come in to tune it. Big difference. It's still a low-budget piano, but it sounds much nicer now, less grating and harsh. He didn't do any voicing (actually said it wouldn't be worth it), just tuning. But the effect it has on the tone is surprising. Happy! Quote gear list.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Do you have any idea what they did differently? Did one guy use an electronic tuner of some sort* and the other do it all or mostly by ear? That being said, my guess is they used different tuning curves. *I don't have a bias against electronic tuners, though sometimes you have to check if it sounds good. Maybe your first tuner has some hearing problems and can't hear some nastiness in his frequencies that you can. Quote "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephonic Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 Do you have any idea what they did differently? Did one guy use an electronic tuner of some sort* and the other do it all or mostly by ear? They both use digital tuners, but with starkly different results. I always disliked how the piano sounded, it made me not want to play. Until today. Now I can sit down and strike the keys without wincing. Maybe your first tuner has some hearing problems and can't hear some nastiness in his frequencies that you can. I don't wanna be rude, but if he can't hear that, maybe he shouldn't be tuning pianos for a living. It's not subtle. They charge about the same, but today's guy really did a much better job. It's just a nicer instrument now. I'm still not stoked about the bass register, that's not spot on, but the mid and treble are much improved. It's a low-budget instrument and there's only so much he can do, but my impression is that he is simply more meticulous and takes the time to get it right. The first guy approaches it more like a plumber or something. Quote gear list.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 Where I live, there's this great guy in his late 80's. He doesn't work so much anymore, but -- if you can get him -- he does an amazing job. Like head and shoulders better. The younger folks use a digital tuner (of course) but never get the voicing just right. I may have to bite the bullet and learn how to do this myself, because it's my ears that I want to please. Quote Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 First guy was store reccomended. Maybe he was too fast. Quote "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyFF Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 I don't get it. They're strings, like any stringed instrument you use a digital tuner, job done. What is a good tuner doing different than a so-so one? Quote Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425 Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus Win10 laptop i7 8GB // iPad Pro 9.7" 32GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 I don't get it. They're strings, like any stringed instrument you use a digital tuner, job done. What is a good tuner doing different than a so-so one? There are literally books about this. But maybe start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_tuning Quote Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 I don't get it. They're strings, like any stringed instrument you use a digital tuner, job done. What is a good tuner doing different than a so-so one? For the sensitive pianist, it's a very "big deal". Famous pianists used to tour with a favorite piano tuner! Quote You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
re Pete Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 Knowing where to set the string, pins, dealing with false beats takes time. Not to mention stretch preferences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 A piano is never in tune. It is varying degrees of pleasantness out of tune. If you somehow were able to eliminate the inharmonicness of strings under tension, plus the error of the equal tempered tuning system, it probably wouldn't sound like a piano. Quote Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zephonic Posted May 8, 2019 Author Share Posted May 8, 2019 Where I live, there's this great guy in his late 80's. He doesn't work so much anymore, but -- if you can get him -- he does an amazing job. That reminds me of my childhood. The only person allowed to tune my parents' 1893 Bechstein grand was "opa" (grandpa) Maaswinkel. Our home was strictly non-smoking, but opa Maaswinkel was allowed to sit down behind the piano with a big cigar and go about his business. My parents treated him with the utmost deference, I doubt God himself would have been given the same respect. After we moved to the city, my dad went on a lifelong quest for a piano tuner that would meet his exacting standards. I think he is still looking. Quote gear list.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 Great story, thanks! I have hunted down some A-list piano techs. It's going to be over $1k to get them down here to do their thing. Jeez. So I'm thinking about alternative options. Having a killer tuning on my instrument is starting to be a more important thing to me. I'm playing at least an hour a day, and it's going to go north from there before long. Like biting the bullet and learning to do it myself. It ain't magic. My ears don't suck. If I went that way, I'd buy a beater piano to practice on before working on my main instrument. Back of mind thought -- not a bad retirement gig if I end up being good at it. Lotsa high end pianos in my neighborhood. I'd have instant cred. First world problem. The folks I've brought in locally are generic at best. The last few, I ended up thinking "hey, I could do this a lot better than you could". Quote Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Williams Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 A generation (or two) ago, my college used a wonderful tuner who eschewed the Stroboconn for a single A-440 tuning fork, two rubber wedges, and his tuning hammer. He graciously tried to teach me a bit of it before I dropped out of school, but I never really got past administering first aid for clinker notes at piano recitals. Quote -Tom Williams {First Name} {at} AirNetworking {dot} com PC4-7, PX-5S, AX-Edge, PC361 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 I even think digitals often need retuning, but I know that doesn't generally work. In some cases, it's possible, though!! It's hard to explain why a piano tone interferes with other tones the way it does, and how that relates to stretch tuning, but a child can discern the harmonic differences between some strange allegedly modern tuning and a nice piano tuning... T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LX88 Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 The best piano tuning I ever had - I had a 1930 Starr that was actually a good sounding 52'' upright. Someone had set up the action on this so that it played relatively easily. I miss that piano, I didn't know at the time that some pianos are special. This one certainly was. It hadn't been tuned for awhile so I called the local piano shop ( now out of business) and had them send a tuner over. So.... it was 9 AM and this older guy shows up, obviously drunk. So I ask him what he is going to do and he says, don't worry, I have a very good strobe tuner and I will use it and you will be happy. I wanted the piano tuned, the price was good so I let him tune. I kind of watched him a bit. I recall that the model of the tuning device was a Peterson and it had a few stretch options. Anyway even though he was drunk he was a nice guy . I tried the piano and everything sounded good. I tried some crazy intervals that had previously given me problems, but there were no more problems. I thought I would definitely use him again but about a year later when I wanted another tuning the store was out of business. So I have often wondered what model of Peterson strobe he used. I had several guys after him attempt to tune it " by ear" but it was always off in some manner or another. Just my experience, but in that case tuning by meter worked flawlessly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ledbetter Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 My piano tech, who Ive known for thirty years, is blind, uses a tuning fork and rubber and felt dampers. The Kawai sounds oh so sweet when hes finished. About time to call him again, come to think of it.. Quote Kawai KG-2C, Nord Stage 3 73, Electro 4D, 5D and Lead 2x, Moog Voyager and Little Phatty Stage II, Slim Phatty, Roland Lucina AX-09, Hohner Piano Melodica, Spacestation V3, pair of QSC 8.2s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogika Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 There's an official Peterson strobe tuner app available for iPhone. It's cheap, and it has options for sweetened and stretched tunings. Quote "The Angels of Libra are in the European vanguard of the [retro soul] movement" (Bill Buckley, Soul and Jazz and Funk) The Drawbars | off jazz organ trio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmammal Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 I don't get it. They're strings, like any stringed instrument you use a digital tuner, job done. What is a good tuner doing different than a so-so one? Oh man, where to begin? I can't other than say pianos are the elite of stringed instruments and it sounds like you've never owned one. Do you know that a baby grand has 11 TONS of pressure on the harp? That's why pianos are so heavy. Do you know a piano has an average of 230 strings? Do you know the entire middle range has 3 strings per note then the mid upper treble has 2 strings per note? The lowest bass notes have one string. That sort of sounds like they would be easy to tune but wait... The tuner I had in LA is from St. Petersburg Russia and went through the whole European apprenticeship thing. Age 10 through high school graduation with a major in piano tuning. He told me that once he graduated up to being able to even touch a real piano he was only allowed to tune the middle two octaves for three years before he could touch the bass or treble. I certainly don't know the details but what does that tell you? Oh, and he doesn't use digital anything, it's a fork and his ears. Bob Quote Hammond SK1, Mojo 61, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Theres a guy my in-laws know who is blind and only tunes by tuning fork and his ears. I used him once but in order to place the mutes, he was touching the strings with his bare fingers. That was on my old piano and the strings on that were clearly aged. Now that I have the Kawai with new-looking strings, Im not so sure. If I were, I might have him back. But hes allergic to cats and we have two now. Quote "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrpheusNY Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 Do you all know what stretch your piano tuner uses? The last time I had mine in he told me he had stopped doing pure octaves and switched to pure twelves. He thinks it gives the piano a better sustained sound. It sounds great to me but I'm not sure my ears are sensitive enough to pick up all the subtleties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted May 9, 2019 Share Posted May 9, 2019 The last tuner I used used twelfths and it did sound really good. It seems to be popular for some smaller instruments. Quote "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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