Singer with his "PA"

[J. Dan]

100% agree with Eric. Most bands that supplied PA all chipped in gear or we bought it, or at least all the band members helped out. I've brought my own PA for gigs but everybody chipped in with setting up. And even then, I've had them surprise me and volunteer to give me a bigger cut for my effort, but I did not solicit anything extra......and in that case it was a fair amount of effort....a pair of 18's, pair of 15" 2-ways, monitors for a 5-pc, digital mixer, MacBook recording the performance 16-ch to go with live video being shot, etc. along with my bass, keys, and sax.....didn't think I was going to get it in my SUV with all the seats folded down but I got it (it looked like a low-rider). I think they extra cut they volunteered for that was around $75, and I also mixed down 3 hours of 16 track audio to give to the videographer.

[MotiDave]

My first regular band after i returned to music after my long hiatus, our drummer had a monster PA. And we never played venues with PAs so he was always schlepping it out. It was a 90s era monster system that in its time was a pretty top shelf system. He had a giant 4-rack case with dual amps, processors, power supplies and a giant old school 24 channel analog board, two huge woofer cabs that weighed 120 lbs easily, then huge mid/horn cabs on top of them, then 4 stage wedge monitors. he had a giant 50 foot snake from his rack to a junction box on stage, all the associated endless cords, about 12 mics so he could mic up his drum set along with all of us, on and on and on - it was an old school glorious ridiculously oversized monster PA. He never charged a penny once, never even thought to. He did get help at the venue, but he schlepped the entire thing into his huge scooby van at home (which he needed for his monster PA and similarly oversized monster drum kit). Wed carry the stuff to the van but he had to specially pack that big van exactly right to get every piece in, only he knew exactly how it fit and he had a system down. It was art. For some gigs if i had time, id get over to his house to help load it up. But hed be all alone late at night after the 4 set grinder gig to put it away at his house again. He never charged a dime, never once.

 

This guy brought 2 crappy PPAs on poles and an 8 channel mixer board and cheated his band. one of the speakers was broke, it kept shorting out/overloading and tripping off his mixer after the first set, itd go out for 2 minutes, then hed get it back on, then itd go out again a few minutes later. it was a complete shitshow.

 

Post-rant update: 2 of the other 3 band members reached out to me to say right on, thanks so much, they were both so glad someone had the balls to say something to him. The lead guitar player was so happy i called it out she said i was her hero. the bass player called me to ask if i was going to quit because if i do he was coming with me. 3rd guy drummer just wants to make piece in the band before it blows up so he avoided taking any side.

 

All in all ... a good days work lol! Point made, well see whats next. Im a bit crazy when i get in this mood, i dont even care about the money but i sure care about respect and integrity. ill blow shit up to make a point if the points worth making.

 

Funny thing is if he had just come to me and said hed spent some money on band stuff that didnt pan out, and he really needed to make a video to book better venue - i would just give him the money. I can afford it, im The only one in the band that can probably afford anything. Im pretty flush, in fact.

[MotiDave]

FU - last nights pub gig was first gathering since the larcenous event.

 

I get there an hour early, load in. Bass player is first to show up - he comes up hey howdy blah blah and then says hes still pissed off about that last gig and the money.

 

I just looked at him and laughed. I said thats weird because the only thing you said to him was we love you, bro. He says he talked to Colette (guitar) and she urged him not to bring it up before we play. I gave him some light hearted shit for leaving me to hang all alone, and said its all cool.

 

Singer showed up 15 min or so later. nobody talks about it - eeryones just setting up. im actually fine about it - it wasnt really the money to me, just the principle and id made my point and was at peace. Then before check, singer walks up and gave each of us another $40 from the stolen proceeds and just says hey, i was wrong. I guess 2 weeks introspection effectuated a realization of integrity. (And no, i dont speak in those words to those cats lol).

 

After the bar gig, he made a point when he gave me $60 to say 300, split 5 ways. Lo, I said thx. I was more interested in the bar fly that was flirting and hitting on me and making me feel like im actually special. I let her charm me for another half hour before i went back home to the lovely family.

 

And so the healing proceeds...

[JoJoB3]

DIY sidenote: where theres no sound/sound-person these new inexpensive, little behringer XR18 (or XR16, or 12's) go a long way as for bang for the buck for gigs. Any member can run it from their android/iphone or cheap tablet, dial in their own monitoring, etc. After initial learning curve yer off to the races (pretty easy, really).

*The XR18 can also output via usb to your laptop and record the show which is always a plus (the 16, 12 only 2-track usb).

Arange for video somehow and you got tools onhand to do some damage.

 

**as for triple-charging singer: yeah, he/she better be worth it, otherwise dump 'em.

[Tom Williams]

DIY sidenote: where there's no sound/sound-person these new inexpensive, little behringer XR18 (or XR16, or 12's) go a long way as for bang for the buck for gigs.

Amen. Or even if there is a sound man for that matter.

 

I also use the 12 to mix down my keyboards from three stereo channels down to one if the local FOH folks need room in their snake.

 

 

[zeronyne]

If you have to pay anyway, tell him you'd rather rent from a reputable supplier, and he should contribute as well. It's a free market.

[cphollis]

FU - last nights pub gig was first gathering since the larcenous event.

 

I get there an hour early, load in. Bass player is first to show up - he comes up hey howdy blah blah and then says hes still pissed off about that last gig and the money.

 

I just looked at him and laughed. I said thats weird because the only thing you said to him was we love you, bro. He says he talked to Colette (guitar) and she urged him not to bring it up before we play. I gave him some light hearted shit for leaving me to hang all alone, and said its all cool.

 

Singer showed up 15 min or so later. nobody talks about it - eeryones just setting up. im actually fine about it - it wasnt really the money to me, just the principle and id made my point and was at peace. Then before check, singer walks up and gave each of us another $40 from the stolen proceeds and just says hey, i was wrong. I guess 2 weeks introspection effectuated a realization of integrity. (And no, i dont speak in those words to those cats lol).

 

After the bar gig, he made a point when he gave me $60 to say 300, split 5 ways. Lo, I said thx. I was more interested in the bar fly that was flirting and hitting on me and making me feel like im actually special. I let her charm me for another half hour before i went back home to the lovely family.

 

And so the healing proceeds...

 

Great story. Lead singer sets off on an evil path. Keyboard dude calls foul, and lead singer responds adequately. All other band members take a step back to watch the drama unfold.

 

There is justice in this world, right?

 

Congratulations, and hope for future peace.

[TommyRude]

And so the healing proceeds...

Great story. Lead singer sets off on an evil path. Keyboard dude calls foul, and lead singer responds adequately. All other band members take a step back to watch the drama unfold.

 

There is justice in this world, right?

 

Congratulations, and hope for future peace.

 

Well summarized. Pray for peace.

 

 

[MTalking]

In our band, the guitar player handles PA, meaning it's his equipment, he brings it in and sets it up and runs it (as well as anyone could do, from the stage) throughout the show.

 

We help him tear it down and load it into his truck, if we're not busy with our own gear.

 

Maybe I'm a big sucker, but it seems fair to me to pay him whatever we would pay a third party to handle sound, which is $300 in our market.

 

I would consider asking him to reduce that to $200, and use the difference as a slush fund for the band's expenses, but here's the kicker; He drives 4.5 hours each way for our gigs! (He lives in Oklahoma, we're in Texas).

 

Driving 4.5 hours at 3 a.m. after tearing down a PA is some serious work, so yeah, I'm cool with the $300.

 

[MotiDave]

In our band, the guitar player handles PA, meaning it's his equipment, he brings it in and sets it up and runs it (as well as anyone could do, from the stage) throughout the show.

 

We help him tear it down and load it into his truck, if we're not busy with our own gear.

 

Maybe I'm a big sucker, but it seems fair to me to pay him whatever we would pay a third party to handle sound, which is $300 in our market.

 

I would consider asking him to reduce that to $200, and use the difference as a slush fund for the band's expenses, but here's the kicker; He drives 4.5 hours each way for our gigs! (He lives in Oklahoma, we're in Texas).

 

Driving 4.5 hours at 3 a.m. after tearing down a PA is some serious work, so yeah, I'm cool with the $300.

 

his PA was not worthy of rental. 2 speakers and a mix board it then failed. Even if it was worth rental (not), he should have given a refund. Just in general, if you rent something and it doesnot work, you should get a refund, not pay for the owner to repair it.

 

second, i'm with the camp that we all bring our gear. nobody should get paid to bring their own gear. I dont charge Keyboard and monitor rental fee to the band, or a keyboard stand loaner fee. same with drums, guitars, etc. - our gear is worth alot more than his shitty PA. so the argument he had to buy gear doesn't wash. we all have to.

[MTalking]

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest or make an argument that you should've paid him. I was just jabbering about my own band's situation  showing a different look at the notion of paying a band member to bring and run PA.

 

 

[CowboyNQ]

Driving 4.5 hours at 3 a.m. after tearing down a PA is some serious work

Its flat out dangerous. That was the kindest adjective that sprang to mind.

 

 

[MotiDave]

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest or make an argument that you should've paid him. I was just jabbering about my own band's situation  showing a different look at the notion of paying a band member to bring and run PA.

 

no offense at all. I was in a different band (described long ago in this thread) where the drummer had a MASSIVE PA system. You could run a festival with it. 4 monitors, ginormous bass cabs, huge mids/horns cabs, 32 channel board with dual power amps, conditioners, etc ... just the snake alone must have weighed 30 or 40 lbs. He also had to bring his massive over-sized drum kit on top of that. He deserved an extra cut even if we helped in the venue parking lot, he still had to man-handle it into his big van at home and then man-handle it back into his house alone after gigs.

 

He never took one, class act. But he should have. He also donated his re-fitted garage as rehearsal space and always had a cold one ready when i arrived. Just the nicest coolest dude.

[TommyRude]

Hey MotiDave, can you give me your old drummer's number? I'd like to hook him up with my band

[Spider76]

Driving 4.5 hours at 3 a.m. after tearing down a PA is some serious work

Its flat out dangerous. That was the kindest adjective that sprang to mind.

 

 

I'd simply call it insanity.

[J. Dan]

Anytime I'm playing more than a couple hours from home, I want rooms to be provided. But I guess if he's the only one traveling, that's his prerogative.

[MotiDave]

Hey MotiDave, can you give me your old drummer's number? I'd like to hook him up with my band

 

Lol, he retired after the band split up over creative difference (the girl singer was PITA and grew worse each month till guitarist and I said wed had enough lol).

 

His back finally gave out. He sold all that stuff off - probably cheap.

[MotiDave]

Anytime I'm playing more than a couple hours from home, I want rooms to be provided. But I guess if he's the only one traveling, that's his prerogative.

 

One band i sub in travels more than local. General rule is 3 hr radius and rooms are required - he gets al the gigs thru agent/promoter and they always pay well with appropriate support. 3 of us are in San Diego, 2 are in Orange County so we often fly out of different airports as well.

 

My more regular bands are 95% local, each on his own. If I were an accountant, Id conclude the high paying gigs only pay more if you accept the premise that all non-venue time is free. As Im not and I do - they pay much better lol. Anyone who plays in SoCal knows bands dont get crap locally. Musician oversaturation meets underwhelming market demand.

[I-missRichardTee]

OP Moti,

If I ever work with your band, I will charge all band members except YOU. Is that fair?

Oh, I forgot to mention, I do not sing.

[I-missRichardTee]

Hey MotiDave, can you give me your old drummer's number? I'd like to hook him up with my band

 

Lol, he retired after the band split up over creative difference (the girl singer was PITA and grew worse each month till guitarist and I said wed had enough lol).

 

His back finally gave out. He sold all that stuff off - probably cheap.

 

Do you know any NON pita chic singas? Lemme no.

[RobPlaysKeys]

This is a bit off topic, but I've always kinda wondered where the line is with singers providing their own PAs and Mics.

 

As keyboard players we are required to have our boards, stands, and sometimes amps.

 

Guitar/Bass players have to have their guitars, amps, and pedals. Drummers have to have their drums, stands, cymbals, and sometimes even drum mics.

 

However, it seems like pure singers seem to get off not having any equipment at all a lot of times. I understand those people who sing and play, but it seems like if the person is just a singer they should have their own stuff.

 

I understand that back in the day PA gear was expensive, but now days a loud PA is cheaper than what a lot of the other people in the band usually are paying for their gear.

[J. Dan]

In every band I play with, the whole band runs through the PA, so there would be no need for the singer to have their own separate PA. Most serious singers do bring their own mic, IEM system and sometimes vocal effects pedal.

[MotiDave]

Hey MotiDave, can you give me your old drummer's number? I'd like to hook him up with my band

 

Lol, he retired after the band split up over creative difference (the girl singer was PITA and grew worse each month till guitarist and I said wed had enough lol).

 

His back finally gave out. He sold all that stuff off - probably cheap.

 

Do you know any NON pita chic singas? Lemme no.

I know several very cool kick ass hard rock lady singers. But they are hard core rough and tumble rock n rollers, i suspect they hung around guy rockers for a long time. Of course, i never lived in a band with any of them - but from afar they seem completely unlike the one I was stuck with lol. Its not that ladies are not good, its that im a completely obnoxious rowdy rocker smartass and sensitive people (either gender) are easily offended by me. I dont want to tone it down, scale it back, i want to be with rowdy obnoxious rockers like me. Throw some digs at each other inside the house, then fight with each other against the world

 

And I know my share of PITA male lead singers too. Its not gender-determinative - I can think of 5 male lead singers that I know and see regularly that I would never play with because they are complete douches.

 

my case was one gal who sang half the songs and started complaining more and more about not being the showcase even though half the songs were male songs and our bass player was a better singer than her.

 

We were just a bar rock band. she started criticizing songs because she didnt sing enough. Then she started to veto female songs the band used to do be because of her evolving high morals conflicted with the rock n roll animal-rebel nature of some lyrics. She refused to sing Lita Ford Kiss Me Deadly because it Lita sang about partying and getting high and not getting laid. Oh good grief, give me a break, were a rock band. this aint satanic worship lyrics here.

 

Then she started demanding we do songs like Lady Gaga and Katy Perry, plus gal country songs. Not knocking their respective talents, Im actually a big fan of LGs talent in particular but cmon ... were a rock band.

 

We did a show at the SD Fair and had to cut to 90 min from our usual 4 set grinder gig. I think we did 19 songs and she only sang 10 - and she had a complete meltdown. Sorry but the male songs were did were the stronger songs than her second row of female songs. Like were cutting Journey so she can sing a second Pink song? Thats when me and guitar buddy both said screw this - its not going where we want to be and were sick o the bitching.

 

We quit, i got recruited into some tributes and learned that grinder bar bands are way more work with less emotional reward. I never even looked for another all purpose bar band - i get asked all the time (very few keyboards players in my nitch here). Its aait - this was the band that allowed me to restart after a 25 year hiatus, it was a good stepping stone for me.

[WesG]

Hey, man, don't knock the vocals-singers. Some of them have their own microphones. Some of them even bring their own music stands! ;D

 

The one thing I've never understand is why somebody would bring their own SM58. C'mon, at least pony up for a Sennheiser 900-series mic or equivalent, preferably a cardioid and a hyper-cardioid. Or an SM86.

 

And then there's the local vocal-only guy who brings his own Madonna mic. Great big cowbody hat, just stands there in the middle of the stage. It looks hilarious, IMO. Good singer, though. He should at least get a guitar and pretend to play it.

[MotiDave]

Hey, man, don't knock the vocals-singers. Some of them have their own microphones. Some of them even bring their own music stands! ;D

 

The one thing I've never understand is why somebody would bring their own SM58. C'mon, at least pony up for a Sennheiser 900-series mic or equivalent, preferably a cardioid and a hyper-cardioid. Or an SM86.

 

And then there's the local vocal-only guy who brings his own Madonna mic. Great big cowbody hat, just stands there in the middle of the stage. It looks hilarious, IMO. Good singer, though. He should at least get a guitar and pretend to play it.

in the last 5 years ive played in 5 bands, comprising 4 singers. 3 of the 4 bring their own stand. 2 bring their own wireless mic/receiver. Those two also bring acoustic guitar (for precisely 1 and 2 songs per show respectively). They arent very good on the things but meh - let em play along for a song. I try to offer hints like uh, you know the chord transitions arent supposed to sound staccato, but they dont speak Italian so they dont know what that means.

 

Sure - Its a lot of work, but they take pride in their craft. Cant talk em out of it, theyre givers.