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The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm #2987426 04/30/19 07:56 AM
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Synthoid Offline OP
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It appears that the R&D department at Yamaha has been putting out feelers about the possibility of bringing back the fabled CS-80 polysynth.

Linky: https://www.gearnews.com/yamaha-asks-if-wed-like-to-see-the-return-of-the-cs-80-analogue-polysynth/


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Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: Synthoid] #2987433 04/30/19 08:59 AM
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I wonder if it'll have mini keys! wink

Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: Synthoid] #2987434 04/30/19 09:00 AM
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I always wondered how many of these were made. People seem to gobble them up when you see them used.

Last edited by Outkaster; 04/30/19 09:43 AM.

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Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: ABECK] #2987436 04/30/19 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted By: ABECK
I wonder if it'll have mini keys! wink


smile Yes, and a whole 37 of them, with a quarter of the polyphony of the original.

But seriously, if they could introduce it with only minor alterations, who wouldn't want one?


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Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: Dave Keys] #2987437 04/30/19 09:29 AM
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It's remarkable that Yamaha has taken this long to grasp people’s interest in hands-on analogue synthesizers...

Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: Synthoid] #2987446 04/30/19 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: Synthoid
It appears that the R&D department at Yamaha has been putting out feelers about the possibility of bringing back the fabled CS-80 polysynth.

Linky: https://www.gearnews.com/yamaha-asks-if-wed-like-to-see-the-return-of-the-cs-80-analogue-polysynth/


http://cdm.link/2019/04/yamaha-cs-80-remake/


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Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2987447 04/30/19 10:23 AM
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One of my close friends who is now the head sound-man at Carnegie Hall let me play one in the 80's that he was fixing ...the only time I've ever really played one!

Hope the make a Roll-O-Cari for it! But I'm sure it will weight less if they make one... that keybed was/is an amazing thing!

Last edited by Legatoboy; 04/30/19 10:24 AM.

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Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: TomKittel] #2987449 04/30/19 10:24 AM
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The Real MC Offline
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Originally Posted By: TomKittel
It's remarkable that Yamaha has taken this long to grasp people’s interest in hands-on analogue synthesizers...


I would say too late. Yamaha had been ignoring pleas to bring back the ribbon controller, the polyAT, and their reface toy is a f---ing insult. They are way way late to the analog renaissance. Frankly I have little faith that their "reissue" will be worthy of the CS-80 legacy, as they have focused too much on the education and worship markets and not enough on the professional musicians.

Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: The Real MC] #2987456 04/30/19 10:53 AM
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This was my submission ...

Hi Ben,

I'd like the new CS to be a superset of the original with the sonic character of the original. From the original at a minimum we would need the long ribbon and poly-at keyboard, the Electone style sliders, the famous oscillators, the filters (the ability for sinewaves to bypass the filters) and of course the ringmodulator.

Additionally, it would be nice to add
- A digital oscillator section (AWM2, FMX or VL) of very high resolution
- Expanded polyphony
- A digital efx section on a parallel bus (so that a pure analog path is still available) (A high quality delay and reverb will do)
- The ability to act as a host computer (like the Kronos) and hang peripherals like a USB breath controller
- A mod matrix (borrow some ideas from DSI)
- A smaller secondary ribbon or XY pad
- A knee controller as found in some Electones
- Finally, because of the age we are in, a pre-filter waveshaping/overdrive/mixing stage with a flexible analog character

Thanks for asking!

Jerry

Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: The Real MC] #2987460 04/30/19 11:07 AM
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BRW Offline
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Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Yamaha had been ignoring pleas to bring back the ribbon controller, the polyAT, and their reface toy is a f---ing insult.


Doesn't the MONTAGE have both? Earlier (top model) Motifs too.

Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: Tusker] #2987461 04/30/19 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: JerryA
This was my submission ...

Hi Ben,

I'd like the new CS to be a superset of the original with the sonic character of the original. From the original at a minimum we would need the long ribbon and poly-at keyboard, the Electone style sliders, the famous oscillators, the filters (the ability for sinewaves to bypass the filters) and of course the ringmodulator.

Additionally, it would be nice to add
- A digital oscillator section (AWM2, FMX or VL) of very high resolution
- Expanded polyphony
- A digital efx section on a parallel bus (so that a pure analog path is still available) (A high quality delay and reverb will do)
- The ability to act as a host computer (like the Kronos) and hang peripherals like a USB breath controller
- A mod matrix (borrow some ideas from DSI)
- A smaller secondary ribbon or XY pad
- A knee controller as found in some Electones
- Finally, because of the age we are in, a pre-filter waveshaping/overdrive/mixing stage with a flexible analog character

Thanks for asking!

Jerry


All solid suggestions; I especially love the knee controller, the parallel digi fx bus, and most of all the mod matrix. smile

Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: The Real MC] #2987463 04/30/19 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted By: The Real MC
they have focused too much on the education and worship markets and not enough on the professional musicians.

"Too much" is a matter of perspective. Schools and churches are a much bigger market than professional musicians.


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Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: BRW] #2987464 04/30/19 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted By: BRW
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Yamaha had been ignoring pleas to bring back the ribbon controller, the polyAT,

Doesn't the MONTAGE have both? Earlier (top model) Motifs too.
The aftertouch on those models is mono, not poly. And the CS80/CS60/CS50 ribbon is very different from their more modern ribbons, and much better.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: Outkaster] #2987486 04/30/19 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: Outkaster
I always wondered how many of these were made. People seem to gobble them up when you see them used.


Both Julian Colbeck (Keyfax Omnibus) and Mark Vail (Vintage Synthesizers) say approximately 2000 - about the same figures as they give for a Jupiter 8.

I think the big question is whether Yamaha will devote the financial resources to recreate that wonderful poly AT keybed and responsive ribbon on something that probably won't be a big seller. The synth itself would (I imagine) be fairly easy to do these days.

Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: Bill H.] #2987489 04/30/19 01:19 PM
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I predict that as Yamaha reveal plans to build a CS-80, Behringer will release a BS-80 with twice the polyphony, Klark and TC fx and double ribbons at 1/8 of the price.

Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: Analogaddict] #2987497 04/30/19 01:58 PM
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Since the original CS-80 didn't have patch storage it had four sets of miniature controls under a panel for user presets. With programmability this could be eliminated and also the second set of controls on the front panel could have a toggle switch for Channels I and II which would bring down the size considerably. Yamaha overlooked Keyboard Tracking on the filters of most of their analog Synths. Without this the upper notes tend to dominate over the lower notes with no way to adjust the balance. There are also a few esoteric functions that probably wouldn't make sense to implement on a remake.


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Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: AnotherScott] #2987498 04/30/19 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
they have focused too much on the education and worship markets and not enough on the professional musicians.

"Too much" is a matter of perspective. Schools and churches are a much bigger market than professional musicians.


I won't argue that. I will argue that their focus on the education and worship market has too much influence on product design and direction. It is plainly obvious that the products aimed at the smaller professional musician market suffered dilution of features after going through the development process which was focused on the other markets.

I started gigging in 1981, right when production ceased on the CS-80/60/50. I tried many new Yamaha products and was disappointed too many times. Not at all a fan of the DX-7 and other FM products. I owned a P-90 but sold it because its action was so stiff that I could not play certain piano techniques on it (and I'm a lifelong piano player) and the MIDI implementation is way too convoluted to use in a MIDI system. Some boards like the Motif had really good sounds but I hated the user hostile interface.

I'm not a fan of Yamaha's disposition towards legacy products. About twenty years ago, Yamaha destroyed all of it spare parts inventory for legacy products like the CS-80. No auction, no buyout, no nothing. Gone! That alone gives me pause for purchasing Yamaha products, and I do not like to be on the upgrade treadmill.

Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: The Real MC] #2987500 04/30/19 02:11 PM
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If this happens, I'd hope for a product that knows what it is, and doesn't try to be everything to everyone.

Continuing in the vein of its predecessor, I'd expect knob/slider/switch-per-function and performance controls out the wazoo.

I wouldn't even mind non-analog oscillators to keep the cost down.

Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: johnchop] #2987519 04/30/19 03:56 PM
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Been following this on IdeaScale and actually have been involved in the discussion and input a small bit. Could be interesting.


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Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: AnotherScott] #2987534 04/30/19 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: BRW
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Yamaha had been ignoring pleas to bring back the ribbon controller, the polyAT,

Doesn't the MONTAGE have both? Earlier (top model) Motifs too.
The aftertouch on those models is mono, not poly. And the CS80/CS60/CS50 ribbon is very different from their more modern ribbons, and much better.


I have a Motif XF, which has the short ribbon under the mod wheels. I like it just fine. I know that an authentic CS-80 update may require the longer ribbon. But why is the longer one better? I guess if it was routed to pitch, you can do Keith Emerson style ribbon stuff. However, the short Motif ribbon is very expressive for filter sweeps, modulation effects, etc.

Again, except for theremin style pitch stuff, what would make the longer ribbon better?


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Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: piano39] #2987536 04/30/19 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted By: piano39
Again, except for theremin style pitch stuff, what would make the longer ribbon better?

Maybe I should have said it was very different rather than better, as it's probably as subjective as wheels vs. joystick, etc. But there's something about that ribbon that just feels more directly expressive to me.


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Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: Analogaddict] #2987540 04/30/19 06:18 PM
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I'd buy a BS80 today! grin


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Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: AnotherScott] #2987541 04/30/19 06:19 PM
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Back in the day in my prog band, the other kybd player had a CS80.

In contrast to all the other ribbons I've played, the CS80 ribbon was also pressure sensitive and had physical "give" to it, and had some sort of 'velvet' fabric surface on it. It allowed for all sorts of nuances in playing technique that the other ribbons I've played (Korg, Kurz, etc.) don't seem to provide.

I remember reading that Stevie used the CS80 ribbon a lot for his acoustic bass playing - so much so that he wore out more than one.

Anyway, the CS80 ribbon was the first ribbon controller I ever played, and all the subsequent ones I encountered were never quite the same.


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Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: Synthoid] #2987558 04/30/19 08:32 PM
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Can they make it affordable, and lighter weight?


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Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: Tonysounds] #2987561 04/30/19 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: Tonysounds
I'd buy a BS80 today! grin

Wouldn't you know that Behringer just posted THIS on their facebook page today...

Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: paulkondig] #2987632 05/01/19 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted By: paulkondig
Can they make it affordable, and lighter weight?


Most likely in the same league/price point as the Moog One.


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Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: Synthoid] #2987678 05/01/19 12:16 PM
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I agree that Yamaha is probably not going release a low-priced synth as their remake of the CS80. Their excellent sounding AN1X and Reface CS contained some elements of the CS80 but failed to excite the imagination as worthy successors.

However, there are lower priced alternatives ...

Two popular software options are the Arturia CS80V , the Memorymoon ME80. Also , there are a number of poly-aftertouch controllers which people utilize. Older controllers include the Roland A80 and A50, the Kurzweil Midiboard and some of the Ensoniq synths. More recent controllers such as the CME XK25 and XK37 are being used to recreate some aspects of the CS80 experience. Some of these tools are not as smooth as we would like in their poly-at implementation. The VAX77 implementation is better. At a higher price-point, the Deckards Dream analog synth module is providing the sound, if not the tactile experience, to many.

Still, no manufacturer has brought the full CS80 experience together yet.

Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: paulkondig] #2987698 05/01/19 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: paulkondig
Can they make it affordable, and lighter weight?


Well, for starters, they should have the good sense to do away with all those wire harnesses, and go with more compact chip-based technologies. That should reduce the weight and the size, and help to reduce potential malfunctions.


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Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: Shamanczarek] #2987764 05/01/19 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted By: Shamanczarek
Yamaha overlooked Keyboard Tracking on the filters of most of their analog Synths. Without this the upper notes tend to dominate over the lower notes with no way to adjust the balance.

That high note dominance was part of the CS-80 signature sound - it was recognizable (i.e. Eddie Jobson's Zinc album). Those high notes cut through the mix.

Re: The Return of the Yamaha CS-80? Hmmm [Re: SteveCoscia] #2987768 05/01/19 08:43 PM
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I once briefly possessed an ancient Yamaha electronic piano that was constructed on a very dense wood frame. It weighed an unreasonable metric ton and it sounded like refried crap nachos. HeadPop

I once played a real CS-80 and naturally embraced it as the near-perfect blend of piano and synth. I don't know if it was also built onto that same wood, but if so, that would account for a lot of the classic roadie-hate. I could embrace a new version as long as it doesn't weigh 200+ pounds. I'd rather be fitted for a hot-lead codpiece than even heft that thing onto a stand, much less consider real-world cartage. Yes, it needs to be analog, have poly-AT, sport the original pitch ribbon and hit those famous high notes. Otherwise, it'll most likely be a $4k beast that will go the way of the hated Jupiter-80. I'm also a sneering old prog wannabe who wouldn't expect many people to really dig in and PLAY it seriously. Most would just crap a boat motor if it lacked a step-sequencer. rolleyes grin


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