Another Hammond Drawbar Question...

[stillearning]

Im mostly a pianist, but have owned several Hammonds years (decades) ago, now using a Stage 3 for Hammond/Leslie. Im trying to fine tune organ settings for two songs. First is Roundabout, specifically the quiet arps before Wakemans solo, and really, I guess the solo too. Next up, the gospel organ in Let It Be. I feel Im close, but not quite, and hoping some of you here who are better at this than me can help. Thanks.

[Sven Golly]

Well, other than setting the drawbars in that section of Roundabout at 4 or less to get the gentle arpeggios, and the fact that the organ in Let It Be is a Lowrey, not a Hammond, I'm not sure what else I can offer.

[AnotherScott]

For Roundabout, try just the 8' and 2 2/3' drawbars. The amount doesn't matter, as long as they're the same, and you're keeping it soft (which means either keep them down as Sven suggested, or if you have them higher, back off the swell pedal, assuming your clone is smart enough to lower any overdrive when you back off on the pedal).

[mate stubb]

One thing about the Let It Be organ you can emulate to get yourself closer is that it is using true vibrato, unlike the usual chorus vibrato you get with a Hammond.

[stillearning]

I did not know the organ on Let It Be was a Lowrey! Probably explains why I can get close, but not quite there with the Nord using the vibrato. And Ill try the suggestion for Roundabout, thats very close to what Ive been using. Thanks.

[Sven Golly]

For the record, in Roundabout, I would lower the drawbars and back off the swell pedal to get the tonal change.

[stillearning]

Yes, Im using minimal swell for the Roundabout section, the Nord Stage recognizes swell pedal characteristics in its Hammond cloning. I feel I have it very close, just fine tuning as a personal challenge while experimenting with drawbar settings. Ill be playing it live only once with other instructors at the SOR where I work part time in retirement.

 

Are you certain thats a Lowrey used in Let It Be? It doesnt really matter for my purpose, Im certainly not going to procure a Lowrey for one performance, just quite curious now.

[mate stubb]

Are you certain thats a Lowrey used in Let It Be? It doesnt really matter for my purpose, Im certainly not going to procure a Lowrey for one performance, just quite curious now.

 

From the Beatle's Bible:

 

https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/let-it-be/2/

 

"A new mix was made for 2003's Let It Be... Naked. Spector's echo was removed, as were the maracas and tom tom overdubs from 4 January. Billy Preston's Lowrey organ is also more prominent in the first verse, and added guitar flourishes come to the fore. The guitar solo was from a different take from 31 January."

[CEB]

If I just had to know how to exactly do the Yes tune I would ask Bruce MacPherson.

[Marzzz]

While we are sorta on the subject, how do you get that soft, pad-like Hammond sound that Greg Allman gets on the original version of "Midnight Rider?" I imagine it is pretty simple, but I haven't had much B3 experience and can't seem to get it with VB3 or Blue 3.

[ABECK]

Typically Gregg Allman was a 888000000 kinda guy, which is what the verses of Midnight rider sound like to me.

 

However, whenever I want to fill in a pad-like part, I'll start with just the fundamental (008000000). Then add a bit of 4th and 9th drawbars to give it some edge if it needs more.

[Sven Golly]

While we are sorta on the subject, how do you get that soft, pad-like Hammond sound that Greg Allman gets on the original version of "Midnight Rider?" I imagine it is pretty simple, but I haven't had much B3 experience and can't seem to get it with VB3 or Blue 3.

 

Swell pedal usage, drawbar selection (hint: nothing above the 4' drawbar during the verses), and using present selections between verses and choruses (see 0:35-0:45 in this video).

 

[video:youtube]

[Marzzz]

Cool, thanks! Not being much of an organ player (even though I had an M3 in my "youth") I tend toward the 888000000 setting, and really need to try experimenting with different registrations.

[Danielo]

I use this source, especially the section Gospel Styles:

 

Drawbar Settings

[Steve Nathan]

My humble opinion (for the nine thousandth time):

If you use your eyes to learn sounds instead of your ears, you will never learn anything.

[JoJoB3]

Im mostly a pianist, but have owned several Hammonds years (decades) ago, now using a Stage 3 for Hammond/Leslie. Im trying to fine tune organ settings for two songs. First is Roundabout, specifically the quiet arps before Wakemans solo, and really, I guess the solo too. Next up, the gospel organ in Let It Be. I feel Im close, but not quite, and hoping some of you here who are better at this than me can help. Thanks.

 

I hope this reads the right way but ya know the real answer to DB questions: it depends on the moment. To seasoned organ/hammond players the DB's aren't 'settings', it's an extension of the player. Like the swell and c/v, it's vibe, tone, dynamics. It's a lead, then it's supportive, etc etc. You're changing often. You 'play' the DB's along with the keys and pedals.

 

I hope that makes sense.

[CEB]

FWIW .... Like anyone cares what I do. I'll pull different registrations on different organs. Clones are often brighter than my organs. I'll pull straight 8 way more often on a console. Same situation on a clone I'll often do something like 888866666 or such. Different organs are different .... Like no s*** Sherlock

[ABECK]

My humble opinion (for the nine thousandth time):

If you use your eyes to learn sounds instead of your ears, you will never learn anything.

]

 

Very true. It takes time, for sure. I'm at the point where I can hear the #4 drawbar like a fart in church.

[AnotherScott]

I hope this reads the right way but ya know the real answer to DB questions: it depends on the moment. To seasoned organ/hammond players the DB's aren't 'settings', it's an extension of the player. Like the swell and c/v, it's vibe, tone, dynamics. It's a lead, then it's supportive, etc etc. You're changing often. You 'play' the DB's along with the keys and pedals.

But if you're covering a song that has a distinctive organ sound playing a particular part, there's still reason to want to recreate that sound. Not all contexts are improvisational.

[Steve Nathan]

But if you're covering a song that has a distinctive organ sound playing a particular part, there's still reason to want to recreate that sound.

 

No one assumes you can use any brand electric guitar and you'll sound like Hendrix. You can't even buy the same make and model and expect it will sound like him.

The problem here is so many players think drawbars are like preset buttons on a synth. There not, and assuming you can get close to every Hammond (with who knows what Leslie, who knows what tubes, road wear, etc) using any board that has drawbars is fantasy.

If you are truly after

distinctive organ sound

you have to use your ears to manage the gear you have to get as close as it can. Looking up drawbar settings online may help you find a starting point, but it's not how the players you're trying to emulate learned to get the sounds you love.

[ABECK]

Also, in a live context, throw all the rules out the window. I've written down registrations for songs that work well when I'm rehearsing at home, but once at the gig, they don't work at all. The room, amplification, monitors, ensemble..they all have impact and vastly affect how I set my registrations in the moment.

[stillearning]

Im the op, and Im well aware of differences in Hammonds, Leslie models, tubes, amplification, monitors, venues, room acoustics, etc. Im also aware of the harmonic series and how it figures into drawbar settings. Im 64 yrs old, and the screen name stillearning is meant to be taken literally, something I hope I always will be. As I stated in my first post, I was just trying to fine tune a setting for a specific part in a single song. Thanks to those who took the time to help, particularly AnotherScott. Much appreciated!

[MathOfInsects]

Everyone learns differently.

 

Thanks for asking the question, OP.

[stillearning]

Everyone learns differently.

 

Thanks for asking the question, OP.

Youre welcome. And admittedly, I overreacted with my mini rant. It was a knee jerk reaction to a few posts where it seemed like I was being taken to task for asking the question. Its all good. Peace.

[MathOfInsects]

Everyone learns differently.

 

Thanks for asking the question, OP.

Youre welcome. And admittedly, I overreacted with my mini rant. It was a knee jerk reaction to a few posts where it seemed like I was being taken to task for asking the question. Its all good. Peace.

 

You were, but it happens all the time here.

 

You never know what is going to make the switch flip to "on" for someone. I am grateful whenever someone asks the question that they perceive is between them and their entry point.

 

I still bear the scars of some sessions I did with a fantastic and hella famous improviser. He seemed surprised at how frankly bad I was at some of the fundamentals of free improv. I never knew how to explain that, 'you don't understand, it's the fundamentals I need you to say in words to me, I can do the rest once I have any reference point at all for this entirely new language.'

 

I eventually went off and asked someone else, while licking my wounds.

 

Anyway, glad you got some guidance.

[AnotherScott]

But if you're covering a song that has a distinctive organ sound playing a particular part, there's still reason to want to recreate that sound.

 

No one assumes you can use any brand electric guitar and you'll sound like Hendrix. You can't even buy the same make and model and expect it will sound like him.

The problem here is so many players think drawbars are like preset buttons on a synth. There not, and assuming you can get close to every Hammond (with who knows what Leslie, who knows what tubes, road wear, etc) using any board that has drawbars is fantasy.

If you are truly after

distinctive organ sound

you have to use your ears to manage the gear you have to get as close as it can. Looking up drawbar settings online may help you find a starting point, but it's not how the players you're trying to emulate learned to get the sounds you love.

I think you're over complicating this. Sure, every Hammond/Leslie combination has the potential to sound a little different, but harmonics are harmonics. If (as in the case of the OP's request) the song was recorded with just two drawbars out (at least to my ears), the closest you're going to come to that sound on any other drawbar organ is to pull the same two drawbars out. Will it sound identical? Maybe not. But it will be as close as you get, i.e. selecting some other drawbar instead of (or in addition to) one of the two originally used can only get you further away, not closer, because you'd be adjusting harmonics that are not in the original sound. The most you can do without altering the fundamental character is maybe to slightly change the relative balance of the two drawbars.

 

Similarly, a lot of stuff was recorded using the stock "black key" presets on a B3. And I bet those players hit the same black key preset on every Hammond they ever play that song on. Will it sound a little different on one Hammond vs. another? Sure... but it's the same basic sound. Using the drawbars instead to get closer is pretty much an exercise in futility... because it's going to be awfully close to start with, and moreover, very little of what makes one Hammond sound different from another can be compensated for by different drawbar settings. Even if a change happened to make it sound closer over some range of keys, it would probably make it sound even further away on some other. Whether it sounds identical on another Hammond or not, copying the same drawbar settings will probably get you about as close to the target sound as the model is capable of. The only way to get closer would be to change things that could not (practically) be changed on the real thing... different tonewheel calibrations, leakage settings, and the like. Those are the things I'd play with to get closer to a target sound... leave the drawbar settings as is.

[Marzzz]

If you use your eyes to learn sounds instead of your ears, you will never learn anything.

Of course, there is much truth to this. But it doesn't hurt to have a few guideposts along the way...

[Steve Nathan]

[JoJoB3]

I hope this reads the right way but ya know the real answer to DB questions: it depends on the moment. To seasoned organ/hammond players the DB's aren't 'settings', it's an extension of the player. Like the swell and c/v, it's vibe, tone, dynamics. It's a lead, then it's supportive, etc etc. You're changing often. You 'play' the DB's along with the keys and pedals.

But if you're covering a song that has a distinctive organ sound playing a particular part, there's still reason to want to recreate that sound. Not all contexts are improvisational.

 

I didn't say it was improv, I am saying know how to play the db's

All the more reason to sit at the Hammond or clone and take some time playing every DB permutation you can come up with on a single DB set. Using your ears, understand what each single DB sounds like (across the entire keyboard), then with the percussion section, then groupings/select dbs, from single scales to chording, etc. Then playback the track, listen to the organist, and you'll nail any sound you want.

 

I'm just saying an organist plays the organ and that includes operations, everything on it. As they play the keys they're also playing the DBs (synthesis).

[Outkaster]

I do it by ear also. People tend to over think this and are overly analytical. Steve is right about this.