Video: Comparing Mk1, Mojo 61 and Nord Rhodes sound

[Jazz+]

[video:youtube]

[Jazz+]

I prefer the Hard Tines EP in my Mojo 61, the above video uses the Mojo's Sweet Tines model. I would boost the bass.

 

This is the Rhodes sound I consider the best ever-

Herbie Rhodes solo at 2:10

 

[video:youtube]

[ElmerJFudd]

It appears, as I have often noticed, that the biggest difference in timbre is actually how the action speaks with the physical, sampled or virtual tine.

 

The Rhodes just has greater dynamic range and timbre variety that's easier to control from "dark and mellow" to "bright with bite" and everything in between with its action.

 

The Mojo61 and the Nord both do very convincing Rhodes... It would be nicer to see the Rhodes compared to a Crumar Seven and a Nord Piano to see how well the developers have matched the behavior of the action to the volume and timbre.

[AnotherScott]

Nord video is from 2017, so it does not reflect the current "v6" Rhodes samples released at the end of 2018. The previous "v5" go back at least to 2010.

 

ETA: I think the Mojo and Nord sound closer to each other than either does to that actual Rhodes.

[jerrythek]

That's a great Rhodes sound. Very little tine/bell, and a meaty body.

 

but...

 

For me that's like saying, "this is my favorite drawbar setting". There are so many variations of Rhodes and their sounds, many possible by just adjusting the voicing of a given instrument.

 

I notice that the moment there is any bell/tine in a sound you describe it as a Dyno sound, which is wrong. I know, you know what you mean, but there are plenty of examples of great Rhodes tones with bell present and they are not Dyno-modified Rhodes. Listen to any of Jeff Lorber's albums from the last 15 years. His axe is an old MK1 suitcase, no Dyno mods.

 

Jeff Lorber - Hacienda

 

 

Listen to George Duke, he loved a lot of tine "clank" and neither of his studio Rhodes were Dyno.

 

 

Here's some mid-later '70's Herbie that I like, that's more in line with your taste (I think):

 

My point is, for me, the ultimate product would have multiple different Rhodes samples, based on different voicings... and I don't even really like the exaggerated Dyno tone. So there's plenty of desirable Rhodes tones to shoot for, and all the customers are not going to agree on one "holy grail/approved" sound.

 

Jerry

 

 

[RobPlaysKeys]

It appears, as I have often noticed, that the biggest difference in timbre is actually how the action speaks with the physical, sampled or virtual tine.

 

The Rhodes just has greater dynamic range and timbre variety that's easier to control from "dark and mellow" to "bright with bite" and everything in between with its action.

.

 

That's a great Rhodes sound. Very little tine/bell, and a meaty body.

but...

For me that's like saying, "this is my favorite drawbar setting". There are so many variations of Rhodes and their sounds, many possible by just adjusting the voicing of a given instrument.

 

Very true in both points like you said it is so difficult sometimes because there is so much variation on Rhodes... and even so much variation within a single Rhodes depending on how it reacts to how you play it.

[Danielo]

[video:youtube]

 

Are you the guy that plays these keyboards? Because I happen to know him.

[Mitch Towne]

Keep in mind that the Mojo61 EPs are have many editable parameters, whereas the Nord EPs are factory set.

[AnotherScott]

Keep in mind that the Mojo61 EPs are have many editable parameters, whereas the Nord EPs are factory set.

In a way yes, but in a way no... True, not being modeled, you can't modify parameters that are simply fixed into the samples, but Nord does have 8 entirely different Rhodes sample sets you can switch among, each with a selection of five selectable EP-specific filters (apart from the standard 3-band sweepable-mid EQ), along with a variety of selectable amp emulations, and of course effects. So there really is quite a variety of EP sounds available.

[Jazz+]

Scarbee nailed it years ago.

[Jazz+]

The 1 GB Scarbee version in Korg Module nails it too.

[Mitch Towne]

Scarbee is still the champ for sampled Rhodes.

[Mitch Towne]

But, after using the Crumar Seven on a series of gigs, I can safely say that no other keyboard has ever felt this close to playing a real Rhodes, at least in my opinion. Its almost eerie. The action and the sound together are uncanny.

[ElmerJFudd]

I would imagine that the TP-100 is preferable to a TP-8O for playing Rhodes and allows you greater control of the dynamics and timbre of the modeled tines in real time. A Yamaha P or Casio PX (or one of Yamahas balanced actions) midid up to a Gemini module or laptop running the Scarbee library could be tweaked to deliver a similar feeling. But the Seven as a complete instrument with physical controls for everything and a black tolex case with chrome legs is just cool as hell.

[AnotherScott]

But, after using the Crumar Seven on a series of gigs, I can safely say that no other keyboard has ever felt this close to playing a real Rhodes, at least in my opinion. Its almost eerie. The action and the sound together are uncanny.

Real Rhodes themselves have varied... I think the actions on the ones from the 60s felt different than the ones from the 70s. At least that was the case with the 60s and 70s models I played, but as my sample size was small, I can't be sure that time was the (only) determining factor.

 

I'm curious, have you played a Korg SV1?

[Mitch Towne]

I hated the SV1, mostly because I thought Korg totally took a shortcut on the Rhodes samples. Halfway up the keyboard, it sounds like they sampled a totally different Rhodes. It was really disappointing to me.

 

I agree that Rhodes pianos have many different actions. Ive owned at least 7 or 8 over the years and they were all different. What I mean when I say that the Seven feels like the real thing is that it feels like Im playing a real instrument - one that is connecting the action to the sound. It might have something to do with the physical modeling and the lack of velocity switching.

 

For the longest time, I ran Scarbee with a Studiologic VMK-161. That was a great combo, but it never felt like The Seven does.

[ElmerJFudd]

I need to take get over to Altos and give the Seven a whirl. Have to experience it, especially because the TP-100 isnt a thrill for me in other boards. But maybe Crumar really has the latency low, and the dynamics and timbre right with this pairing.

 

The biggest plus to me in favor of a digital is the inconsistency of Rhodes actions (mine is awful) and everything else the Seven does. Im not interested in lugging around a Rhodes. If I got my hands on a good one, it would stay home. Its also important to me I can play decent APs with the Seven as well. The CP1 caught my ear/eye but price is painful.

[Mitch Towne]

Elmer,

 

Im predominantly a jazz organist, so my piano chops are long gone. My favorite weighted action is the original Nord Piano, so I was wary of the TP100 action. Ive found, however, that even though it is heavier, it really feels right with the EPs in The Seven. And who knows...maybe Ill get some of my piano chops back over time.

[EricBarker]

For me that's like saying, "this is my favorite drawbar setting". There are so many variations of Rhodes and their sounds, many possible by just adjusting the voicing of a given instrument.

I hear what you're saying, but there is a fundamental difference. At the end of the day, in it's original form, Rhodes tone was a "set it and forget it" endeavor, unlike drawbars which are designed to be played with as a performance technique. Until the Dino mod, real-time tone control was accomplished by gain-stage nobs, or by outboard effects. Pickup placement couldn't be controlled during performance.

[Jazz+]

For me that's like saying, "this is my favorite drawbar setting". There are so many variations of Rhodes and their sounds, many possible by just adjusting the voicing of a given instrument.

I hear what you're saying, but there is a fundamental difference. At the end of the day, in it's original form, Rhodes tone was a "set it and forget it" endeavor, unlike drawbars which are designed to be played with as a performance technique. Until the Dino mod, real-time tone control was accomplished by gain-stage nobs, or by outboard effects. Pickup placement couldn't be controlled during performance.

 

I agree. And the average Rhodes sounded to me like the one in that test demo video I linked. But what's all that clacking he's getting? Worn out hammer tips?

[jerrythek]

For me that's like saying, "this is my favorite drawbar setting". There are so many variations of Rhodes and their sounds, many possible by just adjusting the voicing of a given instrument.

I hear what you're saying, but there is a fundamental difference. At the end of the day, in it's original form, Rhodes tone was a "set it and forget it" endeavor, unlike drawbars which are designed to be played with as a performance technique. Until the Dino mod, real-time tone control was accomplished by gain-stage nobs, or by outboard effects. Pickup placement couldn't be controlled during performance.

 

True of course, but that's the beautiful thing about the modern age. We're no longer limited by that reality. I get to bring a showroom full of great Rhodes on stage with me!

 

 

Jerry

[jerrythek]

For me that's like saying, "this is my favorite drawbar setting". There are so many variations of Rhodes and their sounds, many possible by just adjusting the voicing of a given instrument.

I hear what you're saying, but there is a fundamental difference. At the end of the day, in it's original form, Rhodes tone was a "set it and forget it" endeavor, unlike drawbars which are designed to be played with as a performance technique. Until the Dino mod, real-time tone control was accomplished by gain-stage nobs, or by outboard effects. Pickup placement couldn't be controlled during performance.

 

I agree. And the average Rhodes sounded to me like the one in that test demo video I linked. But what's all that clacking he's getting? Worn out hammer tips?

 

Who is getting?

 

None of those instruments have anything worn-out, it's all about how the instrument is set up. Pick-up position, tine/tonebar height etc. George did like to use the harder rubber tips across more of the mid-range, and the mid-tips further down towards the bottom. Jeff's main Rhodes was a gift from Herb Alpert to him, but Ken Rich works on all his boards.

 

It's all personal taste, right?

 

Jerry