BbAltered Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 The soul band wants to do a cover of James Brown's Cold Sweat. I listen to the original recording, and hear little in the way of keys - maybe some lo piano notes mixed under the bass. So in rehearsal, I'm simply playing the root low on the piano, pushing the bass along. The band leader asks me why I'm not playing anything, and I say there is no prominent keyboard on the original recording. The BL says "well, just play something funky on the organ". Can anyone recommend a recording of Cold Sweat with some funky organ on it? I need some ideas. Quote J.S. Bach Well Tempered Klavier The collected works of Scott Joplin Ray Charles Genius plus Soul Charlie Parker Omnibook Stevie Wonder Songs in the Key of Life Weather Report Mr. Gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djdisbro Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKRSX7ZDQyI Organ solo ~4:04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon May Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 The Dynamites version is the one I modelled when learning this tune. Full organ & lots of slapping. I didnt even know it was a James Brown tune Quote "I'm well acquainted with the touch of a velvet hand..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJUSCULE Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 There are no keyboards in the original, IIRC. Keys aren't an integral part of the JB sound, with James playing the occasional fill or comping part. (Piano on Sex Machine, some organ here and there) Not sure if he ever had a full-time keys player, someone else will know better. As that video demonstrates, it obviously still works. Just think percussively and find the pocket. Quote Eric Website Gear page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zukskywalker Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKRSX7ZDQyI Organ solo ~4:04 Wait a sec. In that video does he have a keyboard that I cant think about affording...on a single leg X-stand??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathOfInsects Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 That Dynamites version is really funky. BUT...IMO that organ part exists mainly because of that arrangement, where the guitar is basically trem-picking on 16ths instead of doing any chucking, and the bass and drums shifted the groove slightly from the original. So you'd have to be careful to really find the 'spots' if you were playing closer to the JB version. With a guitarist in the mix, I usually play something closer to the horn part during the groove and then whole notes in the B section. Quote Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material. www.joshweinstein.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reezekeys Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 That version is so far from the original it's not funny. That's not necessarily bad, but imo it's a poor choice to base a cover version on. For one, it's WAY too fast (imo), you lose the interplay of the bass & drums that made the original so funky (imo). It's how those parts fit together that make the tune (imo) and at that breakneck speed, all that is lost (imo). I've played this tune a zillion times. Just double the horn lines on organ. And stay the hell out of the way of everybody else. Maybe play a solo. Or maybe go to the bar & get a beer. I've heard lots of bands murder this song. And I don't mean that in a good way. Don't be one of them. [video:youtube] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MathOfInsects Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 ^^^^^^^ All of that, which you said way better than I did. Quote Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material. www.joshweinstein.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Nathan Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Not sure if he ever had a full-time keys player, someone else will know better. Mike Lawler Quote Don't rush me. I'm playing as slowly as I can! http://www.stevenathanmusic.com/stevenathanmusic.com/HOME.html https://apple.co/2EGpYXK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pianolando Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Double the horns with organ, and play fills in between. Vary it with Clavinet. Ad lib as much as you dare. Stay out of the bass register, specially with piano. YMMV Quote www.landegren.se Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Nathan Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Instead of laying out because theres no keys on a record, why not think to yourself what would I have played if Id been on the session that day! Quote Don't rush me. I'm playing as slowly as I can! http://www.stevenathanmusic.com/stevenathanmusic.com/HOME.html https://apple.co/2EGpYXK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 or play congas like dish here: [video:youtube] Check acoustic piano part! Quote You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yannis D Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Double the horns with organ, and play fills in between. Vary it with Clavinet. Ad lib as much as you dare. Stay out of the bass register, specially with piano. YMMV This Clavinet is a good way out in keyboardless funky songs. You can add some spice to the guitars and stay out of the horns. Stay away from the bass lines! Wherever is clavinet, piano or organ. Keep yourself in the middle register of the keyboard. If you do piano, use a worn out upright sound like the ones JB used in some of his recordings. Organ though, is the more effective of all - after all JB used to add a little bit of organ here and there in the instrumental parts Quote Be grateful for what you've got - a Nord, a laptop and two hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKRSX7ZDQyI Organ solo ~4:04 Yup, I would be upset, if I was in that band... bad tempo. like they are inhaling cocaine. The recording I provided above accomplishes a miracle in that it stands up to the Godfather's original version and has a nice piano part too. But those are deadly latinos , not any easier to cop than the Godfather's groove... Both Out of Sight, and Al right too. The original is one of the unsurpassed badass grooves, ever... if your bass and drummer are not locking, you have your work cut out for you. I would just not think about it at all... I would just react to what was around me...and keep trying whatever came to me, including using different sounds as has been suggested. Sometimes we can influence a groove.. I would play 100% for the groove... 100% to influence the groove. I am learning this, because when you are not with top players you have to do your best to nudge the groove out of whatever it is you arwe hearing. Sometimes, if it seems to suck, you can move it in an improved direction. Quote You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Another great bass line that maybe instructive. [video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ab4IQwLMTQ Yes, ditto, on the stay out of the bass line, AND the bass range as well. An almost absolute.. you can dare try it for a millisec.. but 99 chances out 100, it will fail. You have to find counter rhythms in a range above bass range. Also based on the too fast tempi many younger players are gravitatating to, ( even James Brown speeded up from original, but that's a master ) on this master song.. your odds are only 50 50 you will get anything happening. if gig is important, I would spend a lot of time disecting this tune. One more [video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABLwmYI09Lw I have been playing organ in less than ideal situations, and like organs versatility. You do not have to play the same thing over and over You can catch part of one idea ( maybe a horn line ) in one range, then play another idea in another range. You do not have to play continuously one repetitive part... but just little bit here and there. You learn on the band stand though. so explore options. Quote You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docbop Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Piano is a percussion family instrument on on this treat it like one. As someone said act like you were on the record session and listen for the holes left by the other instruments as where you could fill in. Just listen to original record over and over and sing/hum a rhythmic pattern that you think complements what the others are doing. There's your part. Sometime the best way to come up with a part is away from your instrument and sing, clap, humm, something. Then put that on your instrument. Remember what Victor Wooten says.... You can't hold no groove if you ain't got no pocket! Here's some Jon Cleary and his funky band, he's also been Bonnie Raitt's key's man for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJUSCULE Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Not sure if he ever had a full-time keys player, someone else will know better. Mike Lawler Thank you, Steve. Duly noted. Edit: Makes me kinda mad that I went to a "jazz & contemporary pop" university program for four years and never heard his name. What a discography. Quote Eric Website Gear page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrokeys Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Some ideas to be found here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah DC Posted April 19, 2019 Share Posted April 19, 2019 Theres some real good nuts-and-bolts advice on funk comping arrangements in this thread - thanks, all. Quote Numa X Piano 73 | Yamaha CP4 | Mojo 61 | Motion Sound KP-612s | Hammond M3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BbAltered Posted April 20, 2019 Author Share Posted April 20, 2019 The guitarist in the dance band is incredibly busy - tends to leave no space unplayed. I often feel my funkiest move is to play nothing. We've been working on Right Time, Wrong Place, and he's playing the clav part during the verse (but still wants me to do the intro riff). When the dance band plays Stevie Wonder I Wish, the bass line is the keyboard part - yet that doesn't stop him from playing it. We do it together and he doesn't like it. I like the idea of repeatedly listening to the original to come up with a part. I'm hearing some low horn lines in the mix: maybe I'll see if I can cover those. Quote J.S. Bach Well Tempered Klavier The collected works of Scott Joplin Ray Charles Genius plus Soul Charlie Parker Omnibook Stevie Wonder Songs in the Key of Life Weather Report Mr. Gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pianolando Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 The guitarist in the dance band is incredibly busy - tends to leave no space unplayed. I often feel my funkiest move is to play nothing. We've been working on Right Time, Wrong Place, and he's playing the clav part during the verse (but still wants me to do the intro riff). When the dance band plays Stevie Wonder I Wish, the bass line is the keyboard part - yet that doesn't stop him from playing it. We do it together and he doesn't like it. I like the idea of repeatedly listening to the original to come up with a part. I'm hearing some low horn lines in the mix: maybe I'll see if I can cover those. I honestly think that no one will thank you for covering barely hearable low horns. With a Hammond you can do things that no guitar player can do or get in the way of. Dont be afraid to take up space and make everything you play and do hearable. Quote www.landegren.se Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 The guitarist in the dance band is incredibly busy - tends to leave no space unplayed. To state the obvious, this is a problem. I've always tried to come up with my own parts. You're a creative artist, you'll be most satisfied when you act like what you are. I'm not the best keyboard player in the Bay Area, but I felt good about trying to be creative, even in a commercial dance band context, and I never got fired from a band. edit: and I'll add that, in my experience, audiences care a lot less about hearing verbatim interpretations than we as the purveyors of the material think they do. Quote Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
analogika Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 . One more [video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABLwmYI09Lw I have been playing organ in less than ideal situations, and like organs versatility. You do not have to play the same thing over and over You can catch part of one idea ( maybe a horn line ) in one range, then play another idea in another range. You do not have to play continuously one repetitive part... but just little bit here and there. You learn on the band stand though. so explore options. I was in the audience at that show! (Well, I was there the first night; the film was taped over three nights. I was on the balcony, just above Fred Wesley.) Will Boulware was a MAJOR influence on my playing in the funk context. I absolutely adore what hes doing there of course thats just a totally smooth groove to bounce off, too. Quote "The Angels of Libra are in the European vanguard of the [retro soul] movement" (Bill Buckley, Soul and Jazz and Funk) The Drawbars | off jazz organ trio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowMan Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKRSX7ZDQyI Organ solo ~4:04 Wait a sec. In that video does he have a keyboard that I cant think about affording...on a single leg X-stand??? My immediate thoughts as well! When I had my C1 I NEVER risked it on a single braced X stand. And when forced to use a double, I always used a towing safety strap. That's just scary... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 Some ideas to be found here. Thanks for posting. I'm working with an alto/tenor/bone horn section with a soul project - sounds great here. Cheers, Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Lobo Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 The guitarist in the dance band is incredibly busy - tends to leave no space unplayed. To state the obvious, this is a problem. Yes. This may be a different problem than what keyboard part to play on Cold Sweat. If the guitar is taking up all the space, there may be no space for keys. Who is the band leader? Is it the guitarist or somebody else? Can you talk to BL about creating space for keys? Edit: when I listen to the original Cold Sweat, I want to play rhythmic organ hits - very percussive, as said above. But it depends a lot on what the drums and bass are doing AND if the guitar is too busy and filling up all the space with notes. This tune - and all of JB, really - is about SPACE. If there is none, trying to play in no space just makes things worse and creates mud. Quote These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Docbop Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 The guitarist in the dance band is incredibly busy - tends to leave no space unplayed. If others are getting loud and busy then you go the other direction soft and simpler. I was listening to a bunch of Joe Sample last night, I was just digging his light tough playing simple syncopations behind everything. Like in the studio recording things don't sound fully like live because of the limitation of the freq' response of mic's, consoles, recording devices. So to compensate producers put layers and layers of other instruments like organs and such and put it low in the mix so its just there to fill up the recorded somes. You can do the same live be that low in the mix piano adding a harmonic pad to the song. Fatten things up without being up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Lobo Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 That version is so far from the original it's not funny. ... For one, it's WAY too fast (imo), you lose the interplay of the bass & drums that made the original so funky (imo). It's how those parts fit together that make the tune (imo) and at that breakneck speed, all that is lost (imo). I completely agree with this. I just listened to the Dynamites version for the first time. It's way too fast and it ruins the tune. That superfast tempo shows off chops but removes the funk and the dance moves. As the audience, you can't groove to that. If you can't groove, you can't move. Fahgeddaboudit. Quote These are only my opinions, not supported by any actual knowledge, experience, or expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elif Posted April 20, 2019 Share Posted April 20, 2019 We do a version of Bernard Purdies Hot Popcorn. Its sort of a modification of the Cold Sweat horn line, but gives some idea of what can be done on organ with a horn line like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffk Posted April 21, 2019 Share Posted April 21, 2019 Yeah, if you're playing JB's version, I'd use an overdriven 'dirty' organ and generally follow the horns with some low-volume percussive syncopations around them. Fun song to get your groove on! Quote YouTube music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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