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#2985803 - 04/18/19 07:45 AM The Steve Perry Sam Cooke Connection
GregC Offline
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Registered: 10/26/03
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Loc: Discovery Bay, California
I greatly enjoyed the Dan Rather/Steve Perry interview on AXS

Here's a revealing snip:



To cut to the chase, go to 2:00 - 5:00 of this YouTubers explanation:


"Sam Cooke delivered vocals with an understated self-assurance that solidifies his Legend. Steve Perry learned from the best. In this case mimicry is the best form of flattery. Sam Cooke didn't just sing high notes he sang the entire Spectrum "

Anyway, I like history , call it nostalgia. The similarities in vocal between Cooke and Perry are uncanny
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#2985914 - 04/19/19 03:45 AM Re: The Steve Perry Sam Cooke Connection [Re: GregC]
whitefang Offline
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I don't know who the gleep in that 2nd clip is( he reminds me of a guy who does one of those catheter TV ads) But it is kinda safe to heap praise on the likes of Sam Cooke and at least sound Knowledgeable)

Sure, as a bit of a Journey fan BEFORE Perry joined, I too( along with a few others I knew then) detected the Cooke influence. You could detect Cooke's influence in MANY who claim to be "Soul" singers. And long AFTER his death. He influenced many. And I'll bet inspired many more. GOD love 'im, I know I do! smile
Whitefang
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#2985925 - 04/19/19 05:07 AM Re: The Steve Perry Sam Cooke Connection [Re: whitefang]
GregC Offline
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Registered: 10/26/03
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Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: whitefang
I don't know who the gleep in that 2nd clip is( he reminds me of a guy who does one of those catheter TV ads) But it is kinda safe to heap praise on the likes of Sam Cooke and at least sound Knowledgeable)

Sure, as a bit of a Journey fan BEFORE Perry joined, I too( along with a few others I knew then) detected the Cooke influence. You could detect Cooke's influence in MANY who claim to be "Soul" singers. And long AFTER his death. He influenced many. And I'll bet inspired many more. GOD love 'im, I know I do! smile
Whitefang


I hear you, brother. I can only handle some of these Utubers in small doses.

I was in the group that missed the Cooke influence early. I finally stumbled into it when I heard the Rather/SP interview on cable TeeVee.

Highly recommend the AXS interview if you can nail it down. I enjoy the history and story line about great artists.

SP got a 1/3 song writing credit on many Journey songs. Curious what instrument he might use. Guessing he plays some guitar and some piano.
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#2986072 - 04/20/19 05:34 AM Re: The Steve Perry Sam Cooke Connection [Re: GregC]
whitefang Offline
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
May be....
Several "frontmen" also play some instrument to some degree, but probably feel both that their vocal skills are stronger than their playing, and/or the other band member's play much better, so leave it to them... wink ie: Both ROD STEWART and MICK JAGGER can play guitar at some level, as Stewart was once in a local skiffle band in his youth. wink

Anyway, Cooke was a lot like NAT KING COLE and RAY CHARLES in that he too, had a lot of "crossover" appeal. As somehow even the most racially bigoted usually gave those guys a "pass" Some guys I knew who viciously HATED "N***ERS" just LOVED their Sam Cooke 45s! cool
Whitefang


Edited by whitefang (04/20/19 05:45 AM)
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#2986324 - 04/22/19 11:41 AM Re: The Steve Perry Sam Cooke Connection [Re: whitefang]
skipclone 1 Offline
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Journey was deadly before SP joined-I had LP #2 and #3. But he was only the beginning of the change in sound. Top players Gregg Rolie and Aynsley Dunbar left. The first LP with Rolie and Perry sharing vocals was nice but clearly a major shift. The first three albums were musician music. I saw the new keyboardist Jonathan Cain, live with the band called Bad English. Um.......he was okay.
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#2986350 - 04/22/19 02:49 PM Re: The Steve Perry Sam Cooke Connection [Re: skipclone 1]
GregC Offline
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Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 6383
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
Journey was deadly before SP joined-I had LP #2 and #3. But he was only the beginning of the change in sound. Top players Gregg Rolie and Aynsley Dunbar left. The first LP with Rolie and Perry sharing vocals was nice but clearly a major shift. The first three albums were musician music. I saw the new keyboardist Jonathan Cain, live with the band called Bad English. Um.......he was okay.


This is the 1 minute version on the reason for Journeys change in musical direction:

Journey began in 1973 as an offshoot of Santana with guitarist Neal Schon and keyboardist/singer Gregg Rolie, but their first three albums failed to find a mass audience and they faced getting dropped from their record label.

Steve Perry was brought into the group to help them develop a more commercial sound, beginning with 1978’s Infinity. The gambit worked immediately as lead single “Wheel in the Sky” reached Number 57 on the Hot 100

The Rather interview also touches on this. That Journey saw the band as following in Mahavishnu's [ John McLaughlin] foot steps. The record label wanted more sales- enter Steve Perry.
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#2986407 - 04/23/19 04:10 AM Re: The Steve Perry Sam Cooke Connection [Re: GregC]
whitefang Offline
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Well, I didn't catch the entire interview, so the Mahavishnu thing begs explanation.

The only thing I saw Journey have in common with Mahavishnu is an occasional rotation of personnel.

I saw Journey open for Starcastle in late '76, just as Journey was promoting 3rd LP "Next" which was released a few months later.

I still liked them after Perry joined, but not as much. I never heard of them before the Starcastle show, and they knocked me and my buddies out! And even though "Next" was their 3rd LP, none of the record outlets I usually did business with had anything of theirs until that one came in. razz

And for those UNfamiliar with ANY pre-Perry Journey..... one of my faves---



Whitefang


Edited by whitefang (04/23/19 04:21 AM)
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#2986420 - 04/23/19 07:38 AM Re: The Steve Perry Sam Cooke Connection [Re: whitefang]
GregC Offline
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Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 6383
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: whitefang
Well, I didn't catch the entire interview, so the Mahavishnu thing begs explanation.

The only thing I saw Journey have in common with Mahavishnu is an occasional rotation of personnel.


And for those UNfamiliar with ANY pre-Perry Journey..... one of my faves---



Whitefang


Ironically, there are guitar similarities in your " People " when compared to Mahavishnu's
" meeting of the spirits"

even the intro's of both songs have a similar dynamic.

When you jump to :50 of Meeting of Spirits, compare McLaughlins 12 string 'raga' guitar riffing to Schons guitar riff in People.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhzDBGiOTvg

It would be reasonable to assume that Schon admired McLaughlin and was influenced.

Perry did not elaborate on his Mahavishnu reference/comparison to early Journey. My guess is Schon followed McLaughlin in terms of style.


Edited by GregC (04/23/19 07:38 AM)
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#2986538 - 04/24/19 04:22 AM Re: The Steve Perry Sam Cooke Connection [Re: GregC]
whitefang Offline
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OK, I see what you're gettin' at. Too, those of us( me and buddies) who saw Journey open for Starcastle( who also used similar riffs) also then thought of journey as another "Prog-Rock" band, somewhere in between YES and GENTLE GIANT.

Now, imagine the first time ever hearing BOTH "People" and
"Meeting Of The Spirits" LIVE! HeadPop (didn't hear the studio versions till later...)

Adding Perry just made them another AOR band. A good one, but still....
Whitefang


Edited by whitefang (04/24/19 04:24 AM)
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#2986559 - 04/24/19 06:53 AM Re: The Steve Perry Sam Cooke Connection [Re: whitefang]
GregC Offline
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Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 6383
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: whitefang
OK, I see what you're gettin' at. Too, those of us( me and buddies) who saw Journey open for Starcastle( who also used similar riffs) also then thought of journey as another "Prog-Rock" band, somewhere in between YES and GENTLE GIANT.

Now, imagine the first time ever hearing BOTH "People" and
"Meeting Of The Spirits" LIVE! HeadPop (didn't hear the studio versions till later...)

Adding Perry just made them another AOR band. A good one, but still....
Whitefang


I hear you. Many musicians preferred the original Journey.


Unfortunately, its always about the money- their record label was going to dump them
unless they want more ' commercial ' [ my term] IOW, follow what the 'trend ' was in 1977.

Progressive music was fragmenting , not growing as a genre [ in terms of big money]. Punk music was becoming a force, for example. Many established UK bands were dealing with the change in trend.

Keep in mind it was likely the #1 objective of a pro band to get a record label 'deal ' and definitely to hold onto the deal. Back in those days , the record label co funded concert tours , studio time, etc etc.

My assumption, is that without money and a record label in 1977, Journey may have broken up.

Enter Steve Perry.
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Innovation is never a single event. It is a long process of discovery, engineering, and transformation.
My Soundcloud with many originals:
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#2986670 - 04/25/19 04:09 AM Re: The Steve Perry Sam Cooke Connection [Re: GregC]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 11655
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
wink
What you call "commercial", is what me and my buddies, since back in the "day"( and thanks to Frank Zappa) call "plastic". smile
Whitefang
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