Singer with his "PA"

[MotiDave]

Anyone had the lead singer charge the band for a gig that required a PA? I just did, gotta say it was BS. his "PA" was a small mixer, small amp and two speakers on poles. The crappy setup broke halfway thru the gig causing us to stumble and stutter thru half the gig. At one point the party crowd offered to sing loudly to cover the fact we had no vocals anymore. then it came back on, then in and out. just a clusterfuck of POS crap gear.

 

he charged the band for rental. then he charged for setup and to "run" it. His running it is basically him adjusting volume. I expected he had an actual professional PA, and though he shouldn't charge the band i was gonna give a one-off and try it out.

 

I called him a thief afterwards. I think he should be ashamed to charge the band for that. Drummer brings 5x the amount of gear, nobody pays the drummer a drum kit delivery and setup fee. My keyboard rig was approximately the same amount of gear as his PA - one board, one stand, one PPA, 2 pedals and applicable cabling. again, no setup, delivery or rental fee for my rig.

 

yeah - he ripped the band off imo. Group message the next day ... my only reply was "its over. no comment"

 

Next time a PA is required, he's not getting an extra dime - or i'm not doing the gig. principle and all

[Ken Beaumont]

Agreed! I own the PA and have never charged my band. In another band I play with the PA belongs to the bass player except the monitors which I bring. He never charges either. And his PA is a lot of gear! Mutiple amps & speakers, two 18" subs, processors and mixer in a full size rack cabinet. He has to bring a trailer to haul it all. Mine is powered column speakers (Turbosound), digital mixer (XR18) and in-ears. I get all mine in my Jeep along with my keys. Plus I bring and setup the lights for both bands. Both bands do put a small amount away for cables that need replacing.

[The Real MC]

A small mixer with two speakers on poles does not constitute a "PA".

 

I own a large PA system and I never charged my band to use it.

 

You were smart to call him out.

[synthizen2]

Both bands I'm in have their own PA systems (the band leaders, that is), and they only ask that other band members help out with carrying the stuff in and out of the venue. They don't deduct from the band members' pay cut. That's nice!

 

[Song80s]

he must be an excellent singer to allow such ' venture capitalism ' on the band

[MAJUSCULE]

Or he's compensating for being a shitty singer by being a crook.

[BluesKeys]

I have in the past charged a minimal $25 for PA. I have to load it to go to the gig, set it up and pack it up and then put it in the house after. And run it at the show! If anything breaks i.e. cables stands I am the one who has to replace them. I don't ask for extra!

[BEMcCut]

When I have owned the PA, I have always done what Synthizen2 said. Never took extra money. I just asked that everyone helped carry and setup tear down.

[El Lobo]

I set up keyboard, stand, 2 speakers, 2 stands, pedal, stool, cables, sax, wireless mic transmitter and receiver, cable. If I had to pay for PA consisting of 2 speakers, poles, mixer and amp, I'd charge more for my set up.

[Danielo]

In my experience, I would've talked about it before the gig. If I were the singer, I would've said something like "hey, guys, we need a mixer and two speakers for this gig. Does anyone have those or can borrow it from someone? Otherwise, we could hire what we need and split the cost". I think that would be reasonable.

 

And then, I would talk about the convenience of having at least a mixer and two speakers of your own and the possible ways to fund the investment.

 

Years ago, I was in a band of five (we did some classic Santana covers) and decided to buy two speakers and their poles among the five of us. It was a small investment for each one of us. Nowadays I own one of the speakers and play with someone who owns the other one.

[El Lobo]

I owned the PA for my main band. Eventually I retired it and it sits in my gear closet. Then I think the bass player provided the PA. Then the most recent guitar player came with his own PA. It never occurred to any of us to ask for mo' money for providing, setting up, running, and tearing down the PA. Other band members help lug it in and out and set it up. Sometimes other band members provide other mains or monitors as needed. If you're a musician, you own the gear you need to do the gig.

[MotiDave]

I thought he was charging $200 which he did mention ahead of time. I didn't know what his PA was, I didn't ask. I knew even that was a ripoff but he had (self-decided) to pay some pro photographer $200 to take pics of the band at our last House of Blues show and I decided to let him recoup that, even though he had no right to spend $200 for the band without asking us. So I was gonna give him the one-off as favor, but I figured he had an actual PA.

 

When I got to the gig and saw what he had, i laughed at him.

"Thats a PA?". YGBSM!

 

Only after gig did I hear he took another $200 to "set up and run" his POS. and the fact it fucking failed epic in the gig was the icing on the cake. I called him a thief to his face, 3 times, told him he should be embarrassed to screw his band like that. I wasn't gonna do more than that, it was done and I made my point.

 

We made $120 each, he made $520 and his gear failed. thats just a ripoff. i'm not gonna fight in the street over $100, I don't play music for money per se - i'm a hobbyist that makes serious money in my profession.

 

But if he makes a point of escalating, heck - maybe we should fight - I'll be happy to get dirty with a pig.

 

to top it off, his act completely sucked. he was so busy paying atention to birthday boy and partygoers he kept missing his mark and screw up up lyric lines. After first set, i told him to dial it back. you can banter with the crowd but you have to stick with the band first. if you can't do both, dial it back and pay attention to the songs.

[MotiDave]

I owned the PA for my main band. Eventually I retired it and it sits in my gear closet. Then I think the bass player provided the PA. Then the most recent guitar player came with his own PA. It never occurred to any of us to ask for mo' money for providing, setting up, running, and tearing down the PA. Other band members help lug it in and out and set it up. Sometimes other band members provide other mains or monitors as needed. If you're a musician, you own the gear you need to do the gig.

I would have carried a speaker pole the 20 feet from this truck to the patio for $50

[Tonysounds]

no. WHen dealing with stick pas, my thinking is this: I've got my gear. What you singing out of partner?

 

[theshinenz]

LOL I own a 20k PA system, lug it to every gig, me and the better half set up and break down and I do sound, still dont charge the band for it. The boys appreciate the quality system and go away happy that they sound good, thats enough for me, if they were the complaining type though Id definitely remind them of how easy they have it.

[MikeT156]

Just another reason never to have a "band". Too many headaches, rip off so-called singer-front man with a 3rd rate PA. I bet he never gets any other gigs.

[Pa Gherkin]

Dave,how quickly can you dump that "singer"? Even if he's actually a good vocalist life's too short to deal with skeeves like that.

[Quai34]

I provide the place to practice, 15 microphones, and not cheap one, C535 AKG for singers and ATM 4041 for the drums for example, I provide the Mackie Onyx 16 and PA, Yorkville sound but like QSC quality etc....so, when one of my former singer started to challenge me of what she was going to make on a gig, I remind her that, "every musician has to provide what they need to play"... For free!!!!

The PA is just for the singer at first....

Depending on the situation and especially on some small venues, guitar and bass and Durms plus me with my personal two 10" speakers are completely independent to be heard and to hear ourselves so, the PA should be the "instrument" of the singer....

She did!'t even provide her own mic or IEM or Preamp,for IEM....

If a singer think that his instrument is just his voice and that anything else should be charge to the band, get rid of him....

Well, in that case, my instrument is my hands!!!! And I should charge the band for my gear!!!!????

[El Lobo]

Singer charges band for PA and shows up with a Shure Vocal Master. LOL.

[WesG]

I charge for PA and have no qualms for doing so. Usually an extra $20 a head, and the band helps setup/tear down. When I'm not in the band, I charge $300 a night for my services and don't expect help.

 

Of course, my PA is better than this joker's.

 

6 12" speakers, 2 10" speakers, a sub, vocal mics, guitar mics, drum mics, stands, poles, cables, X32, lights...off the top of my head that's easily $15,000 worth of stuff right there...plus I had to buy a larger van than I had when I was just schlepping organ and keys.

 

Wes

[MotiDave]

He sent a msg to the band that when he got home, he found an extra $100 they party hosts had shoved in the envelope. He said hes going to keep it and put it towards a video promo for the band? I said only so you took $620 from the gig?

 

He replied back later with a victim BS reply about not getting thanks for all he does. So i went off. I replied on the band thread:

 

Whatever, play victim if you want. I think charging the band $400 for that piece of shit PA was uncool and unfair to the band. Keeping the tip money - thats just real class. Cry your overworked ass all you want. WTF should you get an extra $400 for. James brings 5x the amount of gear you did, give him $400. I brought as much gear as that PA - if you still want to call 2 speakers and a mixer a PA lol. If I had known that is what your PA is - i would have laughed at you for asking for money.

 

you got me that time. Never again. If you need to start looking for a new keyboard player, go ahead and start now. Dick.

[MotiDave]

And then, since i was a lil wound up, i said some more ... lol. Fuck him.

 

Just so Im clear- do not ever ask me to pay you for that POS PA again.

 

Any future gig that doesnt have FOH, you either bring your PA so you can sing for free, and make sure the piece of shit works, or just dont take the gig. I bring my sound and my gear, everyone else brings there gear, and you need to bring yours. You dont deserve to be paid 5x the rest of the band just to bring your own shit.

 

Correction - plus tip you kept 6 times what the rest of us were paid, not 5

[J. Dan]

I don't know rates in your area, but around here, for $500 you get a dedicated sound guy with a pair of dual 18's, something similar to 15" 2-way or 3-way tops, wedge monitors for the band, setup all PA, mic stands, cables, stage power, basic lighting, and run sound all night.....by a professional who runs sound for a living,

[Keysguy]

Get rid of that singer ASAP. When I was in bigger bands the singer had the PA just as I had amplificaion for my keys. When I did smaller duos and trios I had the PA and on small gigs ran my keys thru it. I even provided mics and monitors. Why? because I wanted to know it would sound good. Everyone helps each other in and out, no brainer.

I never heard of charging for PA use.

[FJR]

And then, since i was a lil wound up, i said some more ... lol. Fuck him.

 

Just so Im clear- do not ever ask me to pay you for that POS PA again.

 

Any future gig that doesnt have FOH, you either bring your PA so you can sing for free, and make sure the piece of shit works, or just dont take the gig. I bring my sound and my gear, everyone else brings there gear, and you need to bring yours. You dont deserve to be paid 5x the rest of the band just to bring your own shit.

 

Correction - plus tip you kept 6 times what the rest of us were paid, not 5

 

Wait until you get the 1099, stating the complete amount distributed evenly to all members!

 

 

[J. Dan]

And then, since i was a lil wound up, i said some more ... lol. Fuck him.

 

Just so Im clear- do not ever ask me to pay you for that POS PA again.

 

Any future gig that doesnt have FOH, you either bring your PA so you can sing for free, and make sure the piece of shit works, or just dont take the gig. I bring my sound and my gear, everyone else brings there gear, and you need to bring yours. You dont deserve to be paid 5x the rest of the band just to bring your own shit.

 

Correction - plus tip you kept 6 times what the rest of us were paid, not 5

 

Wait until you get the 1099, stating the complete amount distributed evenly to all members!

 

 

Better yet, be sure to write HIM a 1099-MISC for the $400 you paid him for sound, and $100 for video.

[TommyS]

Run,,, dont walk,,,,,,

[Mr. Nightime]

In our case the bass player owns the PA. Multiple racks, quality board, compressors, effects. Bass bins, full range cabs, HF drivers, monitors. Trailer to move it with, and he does the setup and tear down, with schlepping assistance from the guitar player.

 

He does not charge anything for the PA. What we do is take the tips and put them in a "Slush Fund" to pay for any band-wide expenses, like basic maintenance, speaker replacement for a monitor, photographer/video, backdrop, etc.

 

We get a monthly statement from him of how much we got from each gig, the outlay, and the balance. Everything is totally above board, and agreed upon by everyone.

 

This band is basically friends who happen to be professionals, and act accordingly. One of my favorites that I've ever been in.

 

Oh, and BTW. The bass player takes care of the checks from the venues and makes sure we get paid as soon as they clear the bank, AND we rehearse at his house.

[Delaware Dave]

In my current band our ex-drummer had a PA. He never charged the band; all he asked was that we help load/unload the PA equipment and assist in the setup. When something broke we took the repair money out of the gig. I did most of the repairs so the labor was 'free', we just paid for any parts needed. For a band to be successful everybody needs to play an ancillary part other than being a musician. I developed and ran the website, someone needs to book the band, someone may need to transport equipment; everyone needs to contribute something. If you booked the band you don't take a booking cut, it's the part you play in helping making it successful.

[EricBarker]

I actually don't mind someone taking an additional cut for bringing/running a PA. It's a chore, and it's an expense, and typically it's an added duty for them during the gig. Ironically, my band leader doesn't take an extra cut when he brings his own in, but I wouldn't mind if he did. If you're setting up the band's sound with your own equipment, you have to come in 1-2 hours before anyone (and that sometimes includes long before a wedding ceremony, for example), haul everything, set it up, ring it out. Extra hours = more money, IMO.

 

This situation seems like he did a very marginal job with minimal setup. He didn't really earn the time spent, but for most situations, people should get paid for making it happen. I used to play for dance events where they budgeted for a mixing person, but we didn't need one. I borrowed the PA from a friend (who refused to let me pay him), and then split the money with other band members if they came early and helped, or did additional work.

 

For one, it can be an incentive to get impromptu roadies!