Roland FA-06 and FA-08

[AnotherScott]

IWith that leslie and lack of draw-controls, and overdrive (though maybe I could map it to a knob)

One of the problems is that FA only supports one insert effect per sound. So once you're using rotary, you don't have access to a separate overdrive effect. I suspect this is why the tonewheel sim on the FA doesn't have C/V either.

[EscapeRocks]

When I gigged with my FA08, I ran my organ tones thru the sub out into a Lester K.

 

Worked great in my band setting.

[Stokely]

Argh, really no separate overdrive? Even as a non-organ player that's a control I like to tweak!

 

Good to know the Lester K sounded good. For the price I may take a flyer on a mint used one.

 

Bottom line, my heart is kind of set on an electro and I'd probably be better served saving up a bit for it and pair it with my pc361. That's a nice rig, and the electro can finish the gig if the Kurz has another issue. My one hesitation with it--other than price--has been the action...and for whatever reason, my buddy's electro seems way easier to play than the old electro 3 that was in Sam Ash for the longest time....

[MoodyBluesKeys]

I had an Electro 3 (73) along with my PC3 for a bit over a year. Liked the organ/Leslie a lot at first, but just kind of got over it - the drawbar subs just didn't seem to respond like a Hammond console to me. Sold it and replaced with Hammond SK1-73. Personally have been more satisfied, even though the auxiliary sounds aren't as good as the PC3. They are OK for casual use, and I can also use the PC3 or hook up the iPad with Korg's PlugKey for better non-organ sounds.

Never seen nor played the FA-08.

[Stokely]

No, not another contender! ;-)

 

I did play an sk2 at a jam gig and it was pretty nice. I wouldn't be able to compare to a real hammond, only played one a few times.

[RABid]

I sold my 06. Loved the sound, hated the patch management.

[JimboKeys]

I was *shocked* at the difference in the leslie. We went in and tried to deep-edit the thing, it sounded so bad. Like, the horn was "spinning" at double speed and in general sounded like an LFO.

Something i've learned is that you should never use the L/Mono out when running a Leslified sound in mono, but use the R output instead. The problem is that when the keyboard combines left and right to get mono, you end up with the horn hitting the mic position twice per rotation, so that instead of seven Hz speed you get effectively 14 Hz, turning the fast rotary into a hummingbird effect.

As regards the FA08, i've used the aux outputs to route all the organ patches out into a GSI Burn - much better than the internal sim (especially with the tube overdrive on the Burn). Though i've since dropped that setup and now use Blue3 VST for organ.

 

- Jimbo

 

[Stokely]

I was *shocked* at the difference in the leslie. We went in and tried to deep-edit the thing, it sounded so bad. Like, the horn was "spinning" at double speed and in general sounded like an LFO.

Something i've learned is that you should never use the L/Mono out when running a Leslified sound in mono, but use the R output instead. The problem is that when the keyboard combines left and right to get mono, you end up with the horn hitting the mic position twice per rotation, so that instead of seven Hz speed you get effectively 14 Hz, turning the fast rotary into a hummingbird effect.

As regards the FA08, i've used the aux outputs to route all the organ patches out into a GSI Burn - much better than the internal sim (especially with the tube overdrive on the Burn). Though i've since dropped that setup and now use Blue3 VST for organ.

 

- Jimbo

 

Interesting, that does describe what I heard, and we we were using the L/mono out. Though I also used my vr700 with L/mono out and never heard anything like this. Different implementation I guess. Overall, it just wasn't good. It reminded me of my old Motif's leslie: more of an LFO sound that wobbled the entire tone like a siren. I still am considering it since the other sounds are great and I can get it for a great price. The patch management and lack of controls do bother me though, as does the Roland pitch stick. I've hated that since way back when I owned a JX-10! No perfect keyboard I guess, especially when taking price into account as most of us have to!

[AnotherScott]

Something i've learned is that you should never use the L/Mono out when running a Leslified sound in mono...The problem is that when the keyboard combines left and right to get mono, you end up with the horn hitting the mic position twice per rotation, so that instead of seven Hz speed you get effectively 14 Hz, turning the fast rotary into a hummingbird effect.

This just kind of came up in another context, in the "running Nord in mono" thread. I'm assuming that stereo rotary sims simulate two mics on the horn. So then if you take just one side of a rotary effect, you'd effectively be simulating one mic on the horn, whereas when you merge both sides, it's a mono version of two mics on the horn.

[ChazKeys]

Can anyone confirm if the Organ in the FA06 - apart from having no C/V - is the same engine as the VR-09?

[AnotherScott]

The overdrive and rotary options are different (better in VR). Though the FA has a sub out if you want to go a step above that and add something like a Ventilator. (The sub out lets you put that effect on the organ without simultaneously putting it on any other split/layered sound, and allows you to switch between patches that do and don't need to use the pedal without having to remember to take the pedal in and out of bypass.)

[ChazKeys]

Thanks for the info - I have a Vent so apart from the lack of drawbars looks like the FA could cover organ and give me a much bigger/better range of non-organ sounds. With a drawbar controller and the Midi Event Processor converting CC to SysEx that would give me the option of drawbar control using a D9U. Though I can't see specific drawbar messages in the FA06 Midi Reference.

[AnotherScott]

That sounds right... self-contained, I'd take VR09 organ over FA, but FA+Vent would be the best option of the three fo me (albeit at significantly higher price, if you didn't already own the Vent). If you don't care about the C/V, of course.

 

I don't think you'll need the MIDI Event Processor, based on the info at https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2980905/

though you'll still have to find that sysex info somewhere!

[BenWaB3]

The big flaw on the FA organs is lack of chorus/vibrato. The big flaw on the VR is the effects control. One knob controls 2 parameters simultaneously. You can't set, for example, the tremelo speed and depth on a Rhodes sound independently. You have to hope for a happy medium of the 2 (spoiler alert: There ain't one). That's what drove me to sell the VR-09.

[TomKittel]

Its a wrong idea that the FA tone wheel organ would tally with the VR09 if a drawbar controller is added. The VR09 mcludes a complete clonewheel while the FAs tonewheel organ is very rudimentary. Just adding drawbars does not change that too much. I owned both for a while and sold the FA.

 

BTW the Oceanbeach drawbar editor has a Roland Integra or Jupiter preset which works perfectly with the FA.

[AnotherScott]

Its a wrong idea that the FA tone wheel organ would tally with the VR09 if a drawbar controller is added. The VR09 mcludes a complete clonewheel while the FAs tonewheel organ is very rudimentary. Just adding drawbars does not change that too much. I owned both for a while and sold the FA.

But is there any difference besides the lack of C/V and the lesser rotary/overdrive effects? If so, what?

[ChazKeys]

 

This is a video of Ed Diaz going through the TW model. I will have to go through the reference manuals and compare them unless someone can chime in with the differences. Maybe the FA only has one organ model whereas I think the VR09 has several and a transistor model too.

[ChazKeys]

After looking through the manuals here are the differences:

VR09

- 3 organ types, Jazz, Rock and Transistor

- Chorus/Vibrato

- Low and High EQ gain

 

FA

- 1 organ type, probably rock? Shame there's no transistor emulation.

- Percussion recharge time

 

Eveything else seems to be the same.

 

Rotary parameters look the same but not an issue as I would use a Vent. Not playing jazz so can live without CV.

 

Looks an interesting option for me as a single board solution. If the D9U or D9X can be programmed to hande Roland checksums that would complete the package.

 

Can anyone confirm my findings?

[RudyS]

Bumping this thread for a few questions I couldn't find in the manual.

 

-When a sample pad is triggering a sample, does it also sends MIDI?

-How well does the FA do splits with different MIDI regions. I want to connect the FA with a module (Micromonsta). Am I able to split the keyboard with on one side my module (external sound) and the other side some internal sounds?

[George88]

I don"t have my 06 in front of me and cannot state with any certainty about pads sending MIDI. However, you can certainly trigger external or internal sounds across splits.

[harmonizer]

With an FA-06 FA-07 or FA-08 you can set up splits via a "Studio Set" so that portions of the keyboard will trigger internal sounds from the FA-0x, while other portions of the keyboard will not trigger any internal sounds at all from the FA-0x. You can have up to 16 parts in a "Studio Set" on the FA-0x, and each part can be set to have different keyboard ranges down to the granularity of individual keys. Each part in the Studio Set can be shifted by up to 3 octaves up or down plus an additional 24 half steps up or down, so that is 5 octaves in total. This means that keys towards the low or high end of the keyboard can be used to trigger notes that are normally triggered from keys very far away from the one you are actually pressing. I have done some nutty things to leverage the excellent split capability on FA-07, such as triggering chords by pressing a single note with my foot on a Roland PK-5a footpedal MIDI controller.

 

Regarding what gets sent via MIDI out from the FA-0x, I don't know if it has any function to limit only a certain range of keys to be set via MIDI out. I have never tried to do this. If there is no such capability in the FA-0x, you might need to do something in the external sound module to have it ignore a certain range of keys from the external MIDI controller (the FA-0x).

 

Sorry I don't know if external MIDI is sent when the sample pads are pressed.

[AnotherScott]

On the FA, while you can have Studio Sets that enable transmission on certain MIDI channels and can even send them Program Change messages, IIRC, there is no way to restrict what notes they will respond to, you'd have to deal with that on the receiving side. OTOH, I believe the MODX and Kross/Krome do permit MIDI note restrictions from the board side.

[pawelsz]

Bumping this thread for a few questions I couldn't find in the manual.

 

-When a sample pad is triggering a sample, does it also sends MIDI?

-How well does the FA do splits with different MIDI regions. I want to connect the FA with a module (Micromonsta). Am I able to split the keyboard with on one side my module (external sound) and the other side some internal sounds?

 

1) It should because in studio set you can select the part which is pad part or sample part, so sequencer has to know when to trigger the samples. Part 16 by default. Haven't checked that.

 

2) System version 2.0 and above gives the FA series the masterkeyboard settings so this shoud be possible, there are two MKB tables in studio set settings. For internal sounds, you can apply KBD on desired part and change the range (make something like "half split"). What exactly do you want to do?

[RudyS]

Thank you for the responses everybody. To clarify what I mean, I want to use the pad for samples (obviously) but I don't what them to trigger notes on my module. So actually I DON'T want them to send MIDI. I suppose this can be done?

[RudyS]

And, is it still worth considering in 2020? I was gassing a bit for the Nord Wave 2, just need some simple sounds, MIDI to my module and ability to play samples. NW2 is a bit overkill for me I think.

[JimboKeys]

In my experience, triggering a sample from a pad does not send anything over MIDI.

 

- Jimbo

[pawelsz]

I just checked this connecting my FA-07 to a PC by USB. I loaded the first factory song, which has samples on pads. Pressing pad sends MIDI note on the part selected as pad part (you can select 1-16, off). Note On velocity 127, Note Off velocity 64 always, because those pads aren't dynamic. There are 4x16 pads, so there are 64 notes starting from C2 (1st pad in 1st bank), C2 is lowest C on 61-key version. This trick allows to play samples with velocity but with the keyboard which is dynamic, single layer of samples, but volume depends on note on velocity.

If you choose OFF for pad part, you will be able to trigger samples manually with the pads with velocity 127 and then there is no MIDI message sent, I can not see anything been sent to my PC.

 

The second thing is also possible. You just make split or split the keyboard in studio set (it is same, only the split view is simplified like dual view). Say part 1 on Ch1 and part 2 on Ch2. You only have to disable Rx switch for the part you want to use with your external module in studio set Part View (purple spot). I can see midi note messages for that channel 2 being sent but they are not received by internal module. Also you can make the part 1 on Ch1 to not send any midi messages, to do this you have to disable this part in Master Kbd table (PTX off). In Master Kbd table you can select if all is sent (ON), nothing is sent (OFF) or you can choose only some (MKB) controllers. So you can filter what midi messages like modulation, pitch bend, hold, program change and others are sent to your module.

[RudyS]

Thank you!

[AnotherScott]

The second thing is also possible. You just make split or split the keyboard in studio set (it is same, only the split view is simplified like dual view). Say part 1 on Ch1 and part 2 on Ch2. You only have to disable Rx switch for the part you want to use with your external module in studio set Part View (purple spot). I can see midi note messages for that channel 2 being sent but they are not received by internal module. Also you can make the part 1 on Ch1 to not send any midi messages, to do this you have to disable this part in Master Kbd table (PTX off). In Master Kbd table you can select if all is sent (ON), nothing is sent (OFF) or you can choose only some (MKB) controllers. So you can filter what midi messages like modulation, pitch bend, hold, program change and others are sent to your module.

That still doesn't include what he asked for, "split the keyboard with on one side my module (external sound) and the other side some internal sounds?" The issue is that, when you set a part to transmit MIDI, I don't think you can restrict it to only send from keys on one side of a split point, I believe it sends on all keys, and nothing you tried there shows otherwise.

[pawelsz]

The split function does it. I set the split point on C4 middle C. I got note ons and offs on C4 and above only on Ch1, and got only note ons and offs on Ch2 below middle C. Zones are not overlapping on two different midi channels when the keyboard on FA is split and you play on FA keyboard. Obviously you can set those to overlap in full studio set view.

 

I had the issue you are talking about when I was controlling FA from another keyboard controller but then it is external keyboard. Seems that split function in FA sets the transmit zones but if you are controlling a "splitted zone" from external controller, you have to set the keys range in that controller, FA is not able to set the range of received notes. In that case you will get single sound l from middle C above and a layer of Ch1 and Ch2 below middle C.

 

If the specific sound in external module is on channel 1 and module also has something on channel 2 you can set the part 2 in master kbd table to off and then you are sure fa sends midi messages on only Ch1 to module

 

The Best way to show this is make a video with example. Connecting second keyboard to control from FA.