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Kurzweil PC4


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To all you 76ers, is it the length or is it the weight of the keyboard that bothers you? With the ridiculously low weight, Id expect you could put up with the extra length, which might be part of Kurzweils calculus.

Like others, it's mainly that I hope for a semi-weighted 76 note version (preferably with Fatar TP/8 keys), but who knows, I might even pick up an 88 note PC4, if no 76 note is announced before the end of the year.

 

I currently have two 88 note keyboards, my lovely CP88, and an old worn-out Kurzweil PC88 (yeah, it's kinda funny that they have almost the same name... :D ), so a PC4 88 note would then serve as a replacement for both the PC3K7 and the PC88. I also already have two other keyboards with 73+ keys, the Nord Stage Compact, 73 note, and the 76 note Roland JV-90 (which I would like to replace with a JV-1000, or even an XP-80, since it turns out the JV-90, for unknown reasons have non-weighted keys - God knows what the R&D people at Roland were thinking when they took this decision...).

 

The JV-90 I bought recent years for use as a lower manual for the Stage 2 compact (now replaced by a Stage 3), believing it should have the same keys as my XP30, and yes it does... just without the metal weights under the keys... so close, but no cigar... :P It's therefor pretty useless for piano playing, or any velocity sensitive sound for that matter, IMHO, where the XP30 (and XP80, JV80, JV1000 etc) that all have a wonderful feeling Matsushita keybed. Then a year later I bought the Kurzweil PC3K7 (also used), and its keybed is really lovely for just about any kind of sound, but the keyboard as a whole is a bit on the heavy side, IMHO, for a semi-weighted 76 note (17 kg / 37.4 lbs, whereas the JV90 and Stage 3 both weigh less than 10 kg / 22 lbs).

 

Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...!  🙄

main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live

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Ah I left out an important detail - the 88 note versions of keyboards, at Kurzweil and at most other companies, sell FAR more units than even the most successful 76 and especially 61 note boards. The numbers are insane. 88s blow away everything else in a huge way.

 

That's fascinating... And surprising to me as an outsider. I would think the higher price that 88's command would deter some folks.

 

The only reason I don't like 88's is because I already have a great one, and I don't need another. It's way too much space, expense, etc.

 

I'd love a rack, but I know that's not en vogue right now. I also love the versatility of a 61-key synth, so if they did a 61, that would be my pick. No 88 is likely to touch my MP11 in terms of feel. Anything else would be a big step down.

Sundown

 

Working on: The Jupiter Bluff; Driven Away

Main axes: Kawai MP11 and Kurz PC361

DAW Platform: Cubase

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I'm still a sucker for a synth-weighted 76... There aren't many out there.

 

I thought Roland had a great board in the A-50 in the late eighties. It had a great feel (similar/identical to the Super JX if I recall).

 

I like the space of a 61, but I love the slightly extended range of a 76. And I must have Moog-style wheels next to the keys... Roland at least placated us by putting a set toward the top.

 

14860652512_f83b5e3320_b.jpg

Sundown

 

Working on: The Jupiter Bluff; Driven Away

Main axes: Kawai MP11 and Kurz PC361

DAW Platform: Cubase

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I still have my A-50...won't sell it because of it's Polyphonic Aftertouch who's implementation is there but nothing like lets say a CS-80's....I realized that when I tried pairing it with the CS-80 V soft synth...but still it did open up individual OSC's filters per voice. I have no other synth action keyboard other than my stage organs..so it stays.. It's a good axe and I know my way around it well! I thought of selling it a number or times...it needed a battery replacement of course but it still works well as a controller... built like a tank! Except for the slider knobs which tend to fall off sometimes but rarely. I used it a number of times as a piano controller replacement for a smaller gigs... I'll never do that again.. key throw is way to shallow beside the synth action but for synths it feels really good as you said..

 CP-50, YC 73,  FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122

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- A Forte line that's 100% hammer-action (8, 7, SE)

- A PC4 line that's 100% hammer (88, hypothetical 76)

- A SP6 line that's 100% hammer (88)

That puts Kurzweil as another Kawai. Not a bad thing in itself, but perhaps narrowing a niche where no narrowing is required?

Yes... as of now, the Artis 7 is the only available non-hammer Kurzweil (in the pro line). I wonder if they'll keep it around until there is some newer semi-weighted (maybe PC4-based) to take its place, or if (like Kawai, as you say) they decide to go hammer-only.

 

While I'd prefer the lighter weight of a plastic chassis, if need be, I wouldn't mind even seeing a PC4-76 in the Artis 7 chassis, to get a PC4 that is physically smaller and has a better organ/synth action, even if it ended up not being any lighter than the PC4 88. It could also be interesting to put a waterfall action on it and change the fader caps to mimic drawbars, with some button pre-defined to be instant organ (as some boards have an "instant piano" button), maybe better to compete with Nord Electro, Roland V730, Hammond SK1.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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  • 2 weeks later...
The {Montage/MODX} superknob allows you to assign up to 128 parameters to a single knob

All other knobs, pedals, sliders.. only 1 parameter..

I believe that's 1 parameter per Part, not 1 parameter per Performance. So in a 4 Part Performance, a controller could affect 4 parameters, or 8 parameters in an 8 Part Performance (limited to 1 parameter per Part). And I think the Super Knob 128 figure is per Performance.

 

It's the idea that you can take a single control (let's say foot controller...) and have it do some operation (open a filter on one or more sounds, fade some other sounds in and out, move some drawbars, alter an effect, whatever) then have that same control simultaneously do another such operation, and then another, in order to end up with a single control that does all these things simultaneously. And I guess I'd ask the same question of Tom about the Kurz.

Happily, the answer is yes...With VAST, every modulation destination -- every filter, envelope, LFO, oscillator pitch, volume, DSP sound modulation, and effects parameter -- can "choose" its own modulation source. Most of these modulation destinations can also choose offset and multiplier factors -- they can decide when to pay attention to the modulation source, and how much attention to pay to it.

 

For example, on a guitar patch I tie envelope sustain level and then overdrive level to the mod wheel; then I tie overall volume (output from the overdrive effect) inversely to the mod wheel, so volume remains more or less constant while the fuzz goes up. I can take it further if I want: I can have a second layer a couple of octaves up, simulating speaker-to-string feedback, also be activated by the mod wheel after it gets 2/3 of the way up. At the same time, perhaps I pull back the chorus effect a little bit to increase a feeling of presence. etc.

 

...and I have only used one modulation control. I still have 9 sliders, two CC pedals, and at least 5 switches available, each one of which can control between one and ALL the parameters of the program.

Similar to the distinction I made above... What you described here is (if I understood correctly) how a controller can do many things simultaneously within a single Program. But what if you want the controller to simultaneously affect multiple attributes scattered among multiple Programs within a Setup/Multi? From a similar conversation elsewhere, I have some confusion about this. Let's say that you create a layer which includes that guitar patch, with all those functions assigned to the mod wheel (or a slider or pedal). Can I have that wheel/slider/pedal perform all those functions on that guitar sound while simultaneously having it change other parameters on other programs assigned to other split or layered zones? Related, when you bring a Program into a Setup/Multi, is there an option to bring it in with or without all of its controller assignments?

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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But what if you want the controller to simultaneously affect multiple attributes scattered among multiple Programs within a Setup/Multi?

 

If I understand what you're asking, the Kurzweil K2 and PC3K series can do what you're looking for in spades. In the PC3 series you can have 16 different programs on 16 zones, and each of those programs can have mod wheel routed to any available destination, or modifying other controllers, or interacting with other controllers in functions (or even modifying itself!)

 

Furthermore you could have the mod wheel assigned a different controller for each of those 16 zones. On each zone you can set the mod wheel's scale and response curve as well as values transmitted when you call up and exit a given Setup.

 

Kurzweil pretty much lets you do whatever you like with zones and MIDI controllers.

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To all you 76ers, is it the length or is it the weight of the keyboard that bothers you? With the ridiculously low weight, Id expect you could put up with the extra length, which might be part of Kurzweils calculus.

 

For me it's mostly weight, though with 88 keys PLUS wheels to the far left, room on stage etc. becomes challenging. But playing my NS 88 Classic for the first time in a long while, it feels luxurious to have so many keys on tap!

 

For me 73/76 hits a very sweet spot- I miss that bottom octave when playing a 61!

Numa Piano X73 /// Kawai ES920 /// Casio CT-X5000 /// Yamaha EW425

Yamaha Melodica and Alto Recorder

QSC K8.2 // JBL Eon One Compact // Soundcore Motion Boom Plus 

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For me, it's the sound. There are sooooo many offerings with samples and processing, sound setups, etc etc, and none of them are pro enough for my desires of either audio goodness (i.e. consideration for the main ways of enjoying the keyboard's audio) or satisfy my demands for live sound that I feel comfortable and friendly around and powerful enough with.

 

The Kurzweils have a heritage that is based on the higher audio design people (I suppose mainly the well known artists of the good days, and some serious engineering and science ideas), and even through the current makers have not exactly delivered on that heritage, some of it shines through, and in my experience even can be made to work (again).

 

T.

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There is one thing that allways bogs me and that is polyphony calculations..

 

So does every layer take 1 voice of polyphony/key struck/activation?

Even if the layer does not get triggered?

Or if the layer is added in cascade mode?

 

The voice allocation scheme is pretty elaborate. Here's my understanding:

 

  • If a layer isn't triggered it doesn't reduce your polyphony, so if the trigger criteria aren't met then the layer has no impact (these can include note range, velocity range, and incorporate CC range requirements like the state of the variation toggle.)
  • "Opaque" layers can also be used to prevent other layers from triggering.
  • Alternative triggers, like triggering on key up or pedal down/up don't allocate a voice until they actually trigger.
  • If the layer's amplitude envelope fades to zero it gets "recycled" quickly even if other layers are still sounding. Just because a sound uses multiple layers initially doesn't mean it always has to continue tying up those voices.
  • Voice stealing is smart enough to steal whatever it deems least noticeable, so it can repurpose a layer adding quiet, subtle contributions while leaving a more obvious layer to continue playing.
  • Signal cascading through multiple layers will tie up one voice per layer in the cascade sequence until they're all released (or forcibly reallocated by voice stealing.)

 

Keep in mind that stereo sample playback is achieved with two parallel signal paths, one for the left channel and one for the right, so it will tie up twice as many voices. Mono signals can be panned at will while still only using a single voice.

Acoustic: Shigeru Kawai SK-7 ~ Breedlove C2/R

MIDI: Kurzweil Forte ~ Sequential Prophet X ~ Yamaha CP88 ~ Expressive E Osmose

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There is one thing that allways bogs me and that is polyphony calculations..

 

So does every layer take 1 voice of polyphony/key struck/activation?

 

In general not that simple ...

Think about you play a single layer polyphonic multi sampled piano.

Does that layer take only 1 voice of polyphony per note ?

Yes,- when the samples are mono ...

No,- when they are stereo ...

 

When it comes to VA,- it all depends on complexity of the algorithms in use.

There´s more or less DSP hungry stuff existing.

In a PC3 the most DSP hungry was mimiking FM,- IIRC.

 

Even if the layer does not get triggered?

 

That´s what I like in Kurz machines ... what´s actually not in use doesn´t consumate DSP a.t.m.,- but that doesn´t rule for everything since there´s more than just only layers being waiting to be filled w/ sample keymaps, DSP modifiers or VA algorithms.

There are also FX consumating DSP cycles too.

 

The FORTE models doubled FX-DSP meanwhile and I guess the PC4 does too.

I dunno if there is a separate DSP for FX.

 

KB3, on a PC3, is another story too,- but on FORTE it´s idependend from "the other engine" ...

But also here I guess it´s all about polyphony and not about the FX.

And in KB3 mode, the most DSP hungry is the leslie sim, especially the "double-leslie".

 

Or if the layer is added in cascade mode?

 

Each layer costs DSP cycles depending on what´s running inside and comes w/ some small amount of latency,- cascaded or not.

It sums up until it´s audible,- at least on a PC3.

But I guess it´s not much different on a PC4 where you might have some more DSP headroom, but sooner or later it will be the same.

 

I dunno which DSPs and how many come w/ a PC4 ...

AFAIK, they now have MARA and LENA where the latter is the more powerful one.

 

It´s a ressource w/ limitations always,- like it is w/ every computer,- you know.

 

:)

 

A.C.

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Does anyone know if the Forte or PC4 restores any of the KB3 features that were lost in the port from K2600 to PC3? I seem to remember losing something regarding lowest osc / number of tonewheels / maybe foldback.

-Tom Williams

{First Name} {at} AirNetworking {dot} com

PC4-7, PX-5S, AX-Edge, PC361

 

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I hope this trickles down to a PC461 like the previous generations. And if so, I hope it retains the ability to turn any other midi keyboard hooked up to it into a formidable controller too. Great feature for those those of us using basic slab DPs.

"It is a danger to create something and risk rejection. It is a greater danger to create nothing and allow mediocrity to rule."

"You owe it to us all to get on with what you're good at." W.H. Auden

 

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....

I sent an email to Kurzweil support asking if and when a 76 key will be released.

 

Did you get a response?

 

Apr 8, 2019, 6:12 PM

 

KURZWEIL

Operational Tech Support

 

Hello Andrew,

 

Thank you for your interest in the Kurzweil family of musical instruments and pro audio electronics.

 

At this point the sole info available on the PC4 is posted below:

http://kurzweil.com/news/74/

No other info has yet been made public. As more details are released we will be updating our site.

 

Thanks for your interest.

Please let me know if you need further assistance.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jean Robert Bellefeuille

Manager of Technical & Customer Support

Kurzweil Music Systems

M-F 8a-5p PST

(310) 355-8052

support@kurzweil.com

www.kurzweil.com

 

 

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Not saying much, but at least they responded.

 

I think a lot of companies are announcing products way too early nowadays.

One had a wait of close to two years before it started shipping,

and another announced so many products a year or two ago that I think most people have forgotten what they were now.

 

One notable exception recently was the Yamaha ModX.

I think it was within a week of announcement that the products were available to purchase,

and all the documentation was online - an instant cash grab.

Generate the buzz and have people be able to act on impulse.

 

Rant over :whistle:

 

Difficult to find a suitable replacement for Kurzweil stuff though,

and it probably won't be too much longer before we start seeing something, and I'm sure it'll be worth the wait,

but I hope it's not too much longer.

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Apart from verbatim message posting, it seems to me the PC4 of which I think I saw some preview at a NAMM YT video at some point, is a progression of the same line, with some clear improvements. It's not so easy to understand, but the reason the PC series sound the way they do has also to do with more intricate signal path settings and parts, which are hard to measure and understand for most customers in fact impossibly.

 

It's preferable in my opinion that tech info gets back to being respected out of the nerd brigade on the one hand, but back to actually important data on the other hand, because most people can be deluded to believe primarily in stuff like sample size, polyphony, and at the same time mature musicians can learn to bigot over keyboard sizes that have nothing fundamentally to do with how an instrument sounds, either on near perfect monitoring, live systems, or digital systems.

 

To me it's time for apocalypse of the mystery of digital pro sound, to make clear there are many sound design criteria nobody can easily turn into dog food clumps of knowledge, and that might bring back the implicit esteem of musicians, to replace the by now boring glee and doom of the computer operators believing in the hit-production software.

 

T

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Quote of the week:

....and at the same time mature musicians can learn to bigot over keyboard sizes that have nothing fundamentally to do with how an instrument sounds,

 

T

A misguided plumber attempting to entertain | MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P

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Hi all.

 

It's interesting to read all the different likes/dislikes surrounding the announcement of a new keyboard. Kurzweil are a small player in a big market, and we can assume they're interested in increasing their market share. To that end, they would have done much research and development, and conducted extensive user surveys to try and establish what features would be popular in a new release.

 

They've come up with the PC4, and it looks to be based extensively on the SP6 (which I own). Dave W assures us that this has been a big success, and coming personally from 40 years of gigging with 61-note synths (still largely using my beloved Korg N364), I really like it. With my background the action seems fine to me. I have all the PC3 legacy sounds loaded and that's plenty of sounds. The best I can come up with by way of a criticism is that I can't understand why user multis don't start from #1, instead of #1248 or whatever it is. I'm also a little disappointed that some 4-zone user multis are losing effects.

 

For me personally there's not enough in the PC4 to tempt me to upgrade. I'd like the aftertouch, but I only really use it on organ sounds, I can bring that in with the sustain pedal (confuses the hell out of me but I'll get used to it). I don't need 16-zone multis as I only ever play live and never record. And if I'm losing effects on 4-zone multis Also not interested in sequencer, arpeggiators etc.

 

But if they bring out a 76 key version I'm all over it like a rash. I mean who ever uses the top and bottom 5 notes or so on an 88? 76 will go across the back seat of my car and be lighter.

 

 

Just my two penn'orth.

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  • 2 months later...
Hmmm...yes...I know they are used there....but are these unseen Kurzweils going to help Kurzweil to sell a lot of units?

 

I constantly see all kinds of versions of the basically same synth....

Wouldn't�t it better to do something new? Something innovative?

 

If Kurzweil wants to sell more, the answer is Yamaha...

 

...and Nord ... and Roland (like the Go Keys)

 

I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for Kurzweils after being so impressed by the K-250 that I invested in the Midiboard and PX-1000 series for my live setup ... and got a K-2000 fresh off the shelf .. and have enjoyed the K-2500, K-2600 and the K-2000 racks ... but then I kept thinking the last while, "whatever happened to Kurzweil?"

 

I can't quite figure out who their market is anymore .. compared to how Yamaha or Roland or Nord build keyboards for specific markets ... anyway .... rooting for Kurzweil but can't really figure the company out anymore ...its puzzling because they've mostly made some pretty outstanding gear and set the bar high

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I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for Kurzweils after being so impressed by the K-250 that I invested in the Midiboard and PX-1000 series for my live setup ... and got a K-2000 fresh off the shelf .. and have enjoyed the K-2500, K-2600 and the K-2000 racks ... but then I kept thinking the last while, "whatever happened to Kurzweil?"

 

 

Well, unfortunately it´s a fact, all the innovative products you mentioned above, were designed and manufactured by the original Kurzweil company,- and most were relatively expensive pieces of gear, all made w/ the pro live gigging/touring and recording musician in mind.

That´s somewhat history since Kurzweil, like many others, is just only a brand´s name and owned by others making decisions.

Well, there´s still the (small) R&D team in the US,- but they have a budget and there are guidelines made by the owners they cannot ignore.

 

So,- p.ex. ... why does Kurzweil sell way more 88 weighted-key instruments than 76- or 61-key models ?

The answer is simple:

Most amateurs out there play mainly piano, they are all pianists and buy a new instrument frequently and/or as soon the "piano features" grow up,- and they (prefer to) buy and use ONE instrument at a time.

With luck, they use a bit MIDI because they own a laptop w/ some music software.

Synth features beyond samples, string pads and some other bread & butter as also road-ready mechanical reliability (yes,- the pitch- & modwheel s##t !) don´t interest much in that market segment because it´s rarely used.

 

The truth is, we see much more Yamaha, NORD, Roland and KORG on concert stages and in my life as a touring and studio artist in the past, there was never a single Yamaha or Roland keyboard instrument´s pitch- and modwheel´s mechanisims and electronics failing so often as in my Kurzweil PC3.

In fact, the other´s didn´t fail within decades and the 1st Kurz failure came after 1 1/2 years.

It´s the result of crappy parts,- the unsealed cheapo pots and the shape of the return spring in combination w/ the wheel.

But that doesn´t matter to the most occasionally bending 2 semitone steps where it isn´t that obvious.

So, Kurzweil continues to use that crap and even it´s a ´cause for tuning problems coming out of the blue during performance,- just only because not enough users complaining.

 

But wow, the PC3 had a metal case w/ plastic endcaps, those replaced by wood-endcaps in the PC3K models.

And now,- it´s all plastic,- or did I mistake that ?

Please tell me why electronic instruments replacing large and bulky grandpianos, several electromechanical EPs, a ton of synths (at least concept wise) and an orchestra have to weight 13 kilos only, incl. acceptance of qualitiy issues caused by material(s) over time.

 

So, what kind of reliability can I expect from the PC4 w/ all it´s "mind-boggling" features in that plastic case w/ the cheapo Medelli "piano action" and for less than 2k bucks streetprice ?

What does the production really cost when a relatively small company like Kurzweil can sell such piece of gear for under 2K and using a worldwide distribution incl. service network ?

 

The CP4 is again advertised w/ "anti-aliasing, power-shaped oscillators and DSP processing from Kurzweil's VA1 concept synth, capable of delivering authentic analog emulations as well as incredibly complex new sounds".

So, is it better than a PC3 now,- do we see faster envelopes and LFOs,- non-aliasing LFOs going into the audio range and non-aliasing OSCs for ALL the waveforms incl. hardsync ?

If not,- thank you !

And what´s up w/ the latency between layers and already in programs when playing (complex) blockchords, latency moving over to "setups"/"multis" when using multiple programs layered ?

 

I say all that even I like my PC3,- it´s some love & hate relationship because I love it´s MIDI features and insert-FX chain routing possibilities.

There´s no other instrument out there where I can organize so many fx in a chain for a single program only and in a sequential order I want and the MIDI controller features are more than enough for "small" rigs and when just one MIDI port (16 channels) does the job.

 

I´m disappointed Kurzweil only combines what´s already existing in a piece of gear named PC4.

When I read PC4, I expect to get an improved PC3 and not a ForteSE and SP6 in a plastic case,- again leaving the PC3´s synth features "as they are" except the addition of "new" FM "engine".

 

More and more features in a more and more lightweight package,- that is what sells.

Not only for Kurzweil, also for the others.

 

For me, more specialized instruments count and I´m willing to pay for.

Less (but top-notch) features and more /sound-) quality and reliability please !

I´d buy several of these when they complement well.

 

A.C.

 

 

 

 

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I can't quite figure out who their market is anymore .. compared to how Yamaha or Roland or Nord build keyboards for specific markets

I think the PC4 is aimed quite squarely at the market of the successful MODX8. I expect that Yamaha will still sell plenty no matter what (they're Yamaha), but PC4 is positioned to make a healthy dent.

 

I´m disappointed Kurzweil only combines what´s already existing in a piece of gear named PC4.

I never understand why people care so much about what something is called. Like the way Roland got flak for calling the Jupiter 80 a Jupiter. Which was actually explained somewhere as being the result of the Jupiter 8 being Roland's best acoustic instrument simulator at the time, as their Jupiter 80 was when they came out with it... demonstrating that how Roland saw the Jupiter 8 wasn't necessarily how consumers saw it. (Which reminds me how Tony Banks thought he was improving his sounds when he moved from mellotrons to newer sample-based boards, because "real" orchestral sounds was what he was going for in the first place, but silly us, we liked the fake ones!) Anyway, Dave Weiser similarly explained the PC4 nomenclature earlier in this thread, where he said, "Back in the day, the PC series (with PC88 and PC2) covered the mid-range keyboards while K series was the flagship. With the PC4 they're returning to this structure. Forte is the flagship, PC4 is the middle, SP6 is the low cost stage piano." But, you know, a rose by any other name... It doesn't really matter what they call these things. Buy them if they feel a need for you, don't buy them if they don't.

 

When I read PC4, I expect to get an improved PC3 and not a ForteSE and SP6 in a plastic case,- again leaving the PC3´s synth features "as they are" except the addition of "new" FM "engine".

I would say that the PC4 actually IS an improved PC3. Okay, not in every respect... e.g. lesser action, no breath control input or digital out... but overall... more front panel controls, updated sound set, better display, large sample memory, double the fx units. And while you may see the plastic case as a step down, others can see the increased portability as a step up. Sometimes there are trade-offs, it's not always a simple better/worse. And plastic chassis does not have to equate to unreliable by any means.

 

As for leaving the (VA) synth features "as they are," I think the environment for synth development has shifted. There hasn't been a successful "revolutionary" new synth since the DX7, D50, and M1. (Each of which, btw, was successful in part because they made new leaps toward what Roland thought they were trying to do with the Jupiter 8... i.e. they were better able to duplicate the sounds of acoustic instruments than their predecessors.) For people who want new innovations in actual synthesis, I think that development (outside the analog world) has pretty much moved to VSTs, where developers can find all the digital horsepower they need, at low cost, without having to invest in hardware manufacturing and the difficulty of marketing multi-thousand dollar boards to a niche market. I think Nord and Access are the only companies making any synth over $1500 that isn't at least partly analog. (And I think it's been 10 years since Access came out with a new model.) Oh, and the Solaris, which sound high priced at $4199, but adjusted for inflation, is cheaper than the DX7/D50/M1 were when they came out. Point bring that there is no mass market for really high end digital synth hardware anymore. But as you said:

 

More and more features in a more and more lightweight package,- that is what sells.

Not only for Kurzweil, also for the others.

 

For me, more specialized instruments count and I´m willing to pay for.

I sympathize with your perspective that Kurzweil isn't making the board you want to buy, but I think they are building the board more people will want to buy. For stationery use, you have unlimited access to high quality digital synths via PC or even iPad. For portable use, light weight is more of an issue. Plastic chassis may not make sense for pro touring or backline rigs that get lots of abuse, but more of us are locals hauling around our own gear. And people don't tell us they can't deal with the aliasing in our synth sounds. If you really need the best in hardware synthesis, you still want to buy a dedicated synthesizer. I don't think any "all-purpose" board will be as good for synth as most of the dedicated synth boards... not PC4, not MODX/Montage, not Roland FA even with its SuperNatural synth. Maybe Kronos? Well there's Nord Stage 3 which kind of includes their A1... but you can also get a PC4 and an A1 for the price of the NS3.

 

At its purported price, I really can't fault the PC4 for anything. I think it's just a matter of looking at it for what it is, rather than what you'd like something with its nomenclature to have. Just pretend its named something else. ;-)

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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  • 3 weeks later...

 

 

I would say that the PC4 actually IS an improved PC3. Okay, not in every respect... e.g. lesser action, no breath control input or digital out... but overall... more front panel controls, updated sound set, better display, large sample memory, double the fx units.

 

In the past Kurzweil did a lot of effort for creating Leslie effects leading to the Double Leslie FX Chains.

 

Given the double fx units, I hope they can still improve on this and maybe even improve on the whole KB3 mode?

 

KB3 is not bad but maybe it can become even better in PC4?

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If you're a member of the Mastering V.A.S.T. forum, I built a Leslie effect from scratch that is light on effects units and mimics the characteristics of the Ventilator (as close as I could get it). I know there are a couple of forum members here who are using it.

Korg Kronos 61 (2); Kurzweil PC4, Roland Fantom-06, Casio PX-350M; 2015 Macbook Pro and 2012 Mac Mini (Logic Pro X and Mainstage), GigPerformer 4.

 

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You might want to share the Leslie effect with Dave Weiser, who could then make it available to his Kurzweil forum members as part of a program (for those of use who are not VAST experts). Thanks
CA93, MODX8, YC88, K8.2
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If you're a member of the Mastering V.A.S.T. forum, I built a Leslie effect from scratch that is light on effects units and mimics the characteristics of the Ventilator (as close as I could get it). I know there are a couple of forum members here who are using it.
At last year's summer Eastern Seaboard Hang, I demoed Bill's single (7 unit) Leslie, and all agreed that it was superb. The main trick that I noticed was that Bill simulated a real Leslie's frequency response curve to a T.

 

I use Bill's Leslie exclusively at all my gigs.

-Tom Williams

{First Name} {at} AirNetworking {dot} com

PC4-7, PX-5S, AX-Edge, PC361

 

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