Removing songs from setlists?

[David R]

Has anyone in cover/function bands reconfigured their setlists in light of recent buzz-worthy documentaries? I've never played any R. Kelly or Chris Brown on my gigs, and I certainly don't plan to start now. I must confess that my heart kind of sinks when I hear those tracks in a club or at an event.

 

Regardless of how people feel about separating art from the artists, I guess my position on it (especially in wedding & corporate situations) is that we're in public and we're entertaining a public with a possibly wide set of experiences and opinions. There's enough great, danceable music out there that isn't currently the subject of heated debates, that we can build a big enough setlist without needing to play these now somewhat controversial artists.

 

I really want to try and keep this thread away from forum violations, please! (dB and other moderators, nuke at your discretion)

[Dr88s]

It's an easy discussion when we're talking about R. Kelly or Chris Brown, but what to do when we're talking about renewed recent allegations against Michael Jackson?

 

I'd bet most bands would be willing to look the other way.

[Stokely]

Our stuff is too old to have to worry about it so much, but I probably would want to personally. Any song can be replaced, so just pick some that don't have the controversy and roll on (which is what you are saying).

 

Really hard to separate art from artists for many people. I've gotten to where I try to avoid knowing too much about authors/artists whose work I enjoy...I've had it happen in the past where an author's personal views really kind of filter into how much I enjoy their work. With popular music and social media being what it is, that's almost impossible.

 

There's a couple artists that I would veto if they happened to come up in song suggestions, not due to the music itself but due to the artist's political/personal views. Fortunate this hasn't been an issue, we pick safe and non-controversial stuff

[AnotherScott]

Yeah, we decided not to do any Michael Jackson at the wedding we played recently, even though he was on the list the bride and groom sent of music they like. The list was sent many months before the controversy. There was plenty of other stuff on the list to choose from, we figured it wasn't worth opening that can of worms.

[psionic11]

There's so much great music out there that we should be able to assemble set lists where most everyone can be happy -- musicians and audience. No need to play music that really is a thorn in someone's side.

 

Why constrain yourself when there are so many options?

 

At least this is the philosophy I try to pass on to the rest of the band when forming set lists. Sounds good in theory, but everyone's got an agenda.

[J. Dan]

I haven't encountered a situation when I've had to make a decision like that. Closest thing might be pulling a suggestive song for something like a festival or private party where children are present.

 

I suppose my thought would be this - you're a cover band hired to play what the client wants to hear. Whether not you an R. Kelly song in the list will have zero impact on R. Kelly, so your statement is one of conscience, not something that actually has any impact on anything. That said, you certainly practice discretion every single gig deciding what to put in the list or not, so if you don't want to do it, don't put it in there - no problem. But if the client wants you to play it, or if somebody in the crowd specifically requests it, I think you should be prepared to play it or turn down the gig. Just my 2 cents.

[timwat]

If something on your set list runs a fair chance of rubbing folks the wrong way, why risk it? There are so many great songs out there, there is not reason I can think of to stick with a potential buzz kill - unless you wrote it.

 

If we're all talking about cover songs then there's no reason to get emotionally invested in one song to the point you can't punt and find another option.

 

All that being said, of course there's a theoretical point where some folks can get offended over relatively insignificant stuff. But I don't think this is the category we're discussing.

 

We make people happy - not intentionally trying to stir up crap.

 

That's for our moody, edgy jazz originals gigs. That pay oh so much money.

[David R]

Yeah, Im definitely referring to Michael Jackson in my original post. A lot of our MJ selections have gone by the wayside for other reasons, but we played I Want You Back last week and for the first time in 5 years I was unsure what the reaction would be.

[Outkaster]

Are we really getting that sensitive? I mean there are plenty of musicians or bands that have done pretty awful things you probably don't know about, it's just now we are in this social media age so ever thing is out in open. This 24 hour news cycle doesn't help either. I think R Kelly and Chris Brown are dicks but I am not going to let a customer suffer because of it. Man I am glad I am out of the top 40 thing.

[J. Dan]

...we played I Want You Back last week and for the first time in 5 years I was unsure what the reaction would be.

 

Well, he was 11 years old when they did that song, so regardless of if the accusations ended up being true or now, I don't think anybody has ever suggested he did anything wrong by age 11.

[timwat]

We still I Want You Back too - it's part of our standard 6-song opening medley, and will probably stay there.

 

I haven't given much thought, however, to whether we'll keep PYT...

[Bill H.]

... but we played I Want You Back last week and for the first time in 5 years I was unsure what the reaction would be.

 

Why did you pull it five years ago it was huge back then! It was prominently featured in Guardians of the Galaxy, included the #1 album Awesome Mix, and the whole country was singing that song again (and discovering it for the first time for many teens and young adults).

 

I believe it's still played at the Guardians ride at Disneyland. If the Mouse House approves, I wouldn't worry about it.

[David R]

I only joined this band five years ago!

[MikeT156]

I never really thought about that. However, I have had a classic rock show for decades. As a solo act, I picked songs that I always wanted to play since the beginning of rock, sequenced all the songs, mixed until as perfect as I can get them, and only sing songs that I am capable of singing and playing.

 

People that hired me knew what I played as my Agent furnished them with a list of songs I could play. If that wasn't what they wanted, he would book a different Act for their Party or Event.

 

Doing a solo act isn't for everyone, but it has its advantages. I would rather not take a gig if I knew I could not make the people happy or play what they wanted.

 

 

 

Mike T.

[Stokely]

Are we really getting that sensitive? I mean there are plenty of musicians or bands that have done pretty awful things you probably don't know about, it's just now we are in this social media age so ever thing is out in open. This 24 hour news cycle doesn't help either. I think R Kelly and Chris Brown are dicks but I am not going to let a customer suffer because of it. Man I am glad I am out of the top 40 thing.

 

I think if a paying hiring client specifically asks for something, that matters...vs just the band picking stuff out. Just from a cya standpoint, someone at a party gets mad about it, "the person hired us said we needed to play it" with a shrug..

 

 

[Outkaster]

I mean if someone really gets that uptight about something like that means they don't have enough going on in their own life.

[ProfD]

Are we really getting that sensitive?

 

This 24 hour news cycle doesn't help either.

I believe these two have coincided to create the perfect storm of BS. I'll be glad when it passes.

 

In the meantime, if a band so chooses, it is fairly easy to find substitute songs that folks might find less offensive.

 

Personally, I would not sanitize my set-list especially if *I* really like the song. In my case, Never Can Say Goodbye" stays.

 

Thankfully, I play mostly instrumental music which provides a lot more latitude.

[David R]

I guess the other question I'm curious about is whether or not people are having clients increasingly specify "no MJ/R. Kelly/Chris Brown/[insert other controversial person here]..."

 

@Outkaster, my question is less about whether *we* are getting that sensitive, but more whether public reaction and client requests are changing. What's our responsibility as a "vendor" who knows more about music than the client (usually), and also because we're playing to 200-300 guests or more, beyond the client who is directly hiring us? For example, this band already chooses to do the "clean" versions of certain songs, because a wedding is a family-friendly affair.

 

I have my own stance on all of these artists, and it's a bit of a sliding scale, I'll admit. That's not really what I wanted to discuss here more to see if we've already reached the tipping point of "cancelling" these artists.

[ProfD]

IMO, if the person writing the check wants to ban certain artists' music that is within their right. The band has every right to accept or refuse the gig too.

 

IMO, musicians/artists/bands should not be "cancelling" artists and/or their songs based on allegations and/or the court of public opinion.

 

We should wait at least until after the trial proceedings and the jury enters a verdict.

[Mighty Motif Max]

Never had any requests like that. Most I've ever gotten are related to genre. I.e. don't play rap at a senior center or don't play hard rock as restaurant background music. Just common sense stuff.

 

Course, I'm pretty much a solo act which is 98% instrumental.

[MoKen]

I've been struggling with a different, but similar question - the racism of southern rock in general and Skynyrd in particular.

 

I'm in a new band and Skynyrd songs are starting to creep onto the set list. We could debate the lyrics to Sweet Home Alabama endlessly, and many have. So, in and of themselves, the lyrics/songs may not be racist. But the songs and the groups have been adopted by those that are.

 

Does that mean I shouldn't play them, as a person that doesn't want anything to do with racism?

 

As I say, I'm struggling with this.

[Threadslayer]

 

I think if a paying hiring client specifically asks for something, that matters...vs just the band picking stuff out. Just from a cya standpoint, someone at a party gets mad about it, "the person hired us said we needed to play it" with a shrug..

 

I'd probably say something like "We totally get that, that's why we play the Taylor Swift version"

[timwat]

I think everyone's got to arrive at their own take on this.

 

For me, it's relatively easy for me to divorce the art from the personality and antics of the artist. Maybe it's because how many good and bad songs I've learned over the decades. Maybe it's because my belief about humans never expects them to be wholly good or completely evil - or ever beyond redemption. Or maybe it's simply because I also compose and those are the tunes I'm really invested in - the rest is just "other people's music".

 

I know a lot of acquaintances don't feel this way at all. And a lot of the dividing line is along generational lines - younger folks find it much harder to separate than older folks (it seems to me).

 

Some will say, "It's just a series of notes and some lyrics...I didn't write any of it and it doesn't represent who I am or what I believe, I'm just playing it for your entertainment."

 

Some will say, "I don't condone that behavior and I don't want to support anything he/she did or does or represents."

 

And you could play devil's advocate with either of those positions and find exceptions / contexts / cracks in the logic where it's not comprehensive or universal.

 

All I would suggest:

 

1) Don't do anything that violates your own sense of conscience

2) Don't let anyone else tell you what should violate your own sense of conscience

[CowboyNQ]

Weve never done any Michael Jackson tracks purely because theyre out of our league vocally and dont quite fit our overall genre.

 

Interestingly though I know a couple of other local bands whove dropped MJ tracks off their set list simply because theyve become dance floor clearers.

[nursers]

Here's a very interesting perspective on this issue: LINK

[PianoMan51]

Based on advice to just ignore any doubts, Im going to launch my bands Youre Sixteen, Youre Beautiful, And Youre Mine tour. Anyone want to invest?

[Piktor]

Admittedly, it's easier to take the moral high ground when you don't need the gig to pay the rent. However, in terms of sing/lyric choice and artist representation, knowing that I have to face a mirror every day, I tend to favour the position of maintaining one's values, whatever they are. I do realize that it is very difficult to maintain that position consistently. Long ago I gave up my favorite beer, because I became aware that the company that produced it was making large campaign contributions to what I considered to be a government that represented views that I very much oppose (Now, THAT'S commitment! ). At the same time, I don't hesitate to buy gasoline when my tank is empty and I don't investigate the background of every flawed artist that I love. Pick your battles and if you must make compromises, maybe you can earn some good karma points back through other acts of charity, etc. I'm still trying to make up for having played "Boom, Boom, Out Go The Lights" by doing volunteer work for my female candidate in our upcoming election.

[Outkaster]

I can't believe what I am reading and yes people are getting too sensitive. Musicians/bands have done a lot of awful things you all don't know about, like I said it's just not publicized. I have seen southern rock bands displaying a confederate battle flag at their gigs, I think that is wrong. I have friends in the party band circuit and one very good one has black members that are friends of mine. I wonder what they think?

[MoKen]

So, Outkaster, would you decline to play Sweet Home Alabama? Or is the song/band OK as long as you're not flying the flag?

[EscapeRocks]

So, Outkaster, would you decline to play Sweet Home Alabama? Or is the song/band OK as long as you're not flying the flag?

 

You need to read interviews with Ronnie, and Neal Young from back in the day.

 

Ronnie and Gary wrote the song in response to Neal Young's songs that castigated everyone in the south as racist.

Neal, himself, says Skynyrd was right to call him out since as he looks back, he realizes what he did and hates it.

 

Basically Skynyrd is going point by point thru Neal's song to know that the actions of a few shouldn't paint a picture of the acts of many.

 

Anyway, there's a great Skynyrd tribute band out here, and the crowds are from all demographics and love them.