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Nord Grand with Kawai Action


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First thought: Too heavy for me to gig with. Anything north of 18kg these days, I just won't deal with. My MODX8 does 80% of what I need these days at 13kg and for anything more serious pianistically, I still have the CP4.

 

Second thought: This could be an attractive choice for permanent installation into a home studio if you couldn't afford or have room for a decent piano.

 

Third thought: But if it wasn't going anywhere, you could get a better action and save a whole bunch of money by just buying an MP11SE.

Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37

Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D

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First thought: Too heavy for me to gig with. Anything north of 18kg these days, I just won't deal with. My MODX8 does 80% of what I need these days at 13kg and for anything more serious pianistically, I still have the CP4.

 

Second thought: This could be an attractive choice for permanent installation into a home studio if you couldn't afford or have room for a decent piano.

 

Third thought: But if it wasn't going anywhere, you could get a better action and save a whole bunch of money by just buying an MP11SE.

 

Which is why Kawai didnt agree to share the GF action most likely.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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46 lbs is the heaviest keyboard Nord has ever made, yet it will be considered portable by lots of people. If Aiden spoke in terms of lbs instead of kilograms (as an aside, how ironic that the brits would burden us with the pound system only to abandon us at this late date), I would know exactly where his cutoff is. Mine is around 40 lbs.

 

So I definitely see Aiden's logic. If I'm going to get a 40+ lbs keyboard that I won't gig with, it might as well be the MP11SE.

 

But I think we'll be in the minority.

Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro

Home: Vintage Vibe 64

 

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Hi Adan, sorry about that. Nearly all weights in store descriptions etc are in kg over here now so I've sort of got used to it. But yes, around 40lb is my limit!

Studio: Yamaha P515 | Yamaha Tyros 5 | Yamaha HX1 | Moog Sub 37

Road: Yamaha YC88 | Nord Electro 5D

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Third thought: But if it wasn't going anywhere, you could get a better action and save a whole bunch of money by just buying an MP11SE.

Exactly!

...and it makes even less sense to pay $4,000 for a Nord Grand, when you know that you can have a Kawai MP7SE for less than half the price, about $1,500...

Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...!  🙄

main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live

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It depends if you wanna pay that extra $1500 for all the Nord piano doenload options

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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If youre playing at home VPC-1 or an MP11 or a Kawai digital console with a laptop and tons of AU/VSTs that dwarf the Nord library starting with Keyscape and maybe Garritan CFX.

 

I also doubt this instrument if going to be under $4999.99 in the US. I might be wrong on that but thats my guess.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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If youre playing at home VPC-1 or an MP11 or a Kawai digital console with a laptop and tons of AU/VSTs that dwarf the Nord library starting with Keyscape and maybe Garritan CFX.

 

yea, true, but if you dont gainstage them right, they will sound like azz

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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Now they have me wondering,

Will there ever be a grand-stage?

 

Seems many people love the formfactor for an 88 key, withcontrolls on the front, espescially when used as a lower key.. or just as a controller for a DAW...

Stage has so many more controls, I don't think you could go with that look/form factor. Or at least the control surface would have to extend quite a bit higher.

 

and it makes even less sense to pay $4,000 for a Nord Grand, when you know that you can have a Kawai MP7SE for less than half the price, about $1,500...

Though you generally pay a premium for the models that emphasize single function direct controls over multi-function controls and menu navigation. Kawai MP11SE leans toward the former, MP7SE leans toward the latter. And I think that's definitely part of the Nord appeal. Similarly, the Yamaha that I think would have the most similar appeal would be the CP88. Something the Nord has over a CP88 or MP11SE is diversity... it has the widest range of different piano sample sets, and the widest range of non-piano sounds.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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If youre playing at home VPC-1 or an MP11 or a Kawai digital console with a laptop and tons of AU/VSTs that dwarf the Nord library starting with Keyscape and maybe Garritan CFX.

 

yea, true, but if you dont gainstage them right, they will sound like azz

 

Yeah but thats true for all PC based rigs and even user created patches on high end instruments and sadly even factory patches on cheaper models.

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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Something the Nord has over a CP88 or MP11SE is diversity... it has the widest range of different piano sample sets, and the widest range of non-piano sounds.

 

I love that about Nords DP sounds . . .you can really change up the character of the AP sounds... Kurzweil's also.. Roland, Korg, Yamaha there are different pianos in there but not near as many nor as diverse . .

 CP-50, YC 73,  FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122

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Something the Nord has over a CP88 or MP11SE is diversity... it has the widest range of different piano sample sets, and the widest range of non-piano sounds.

 

Well, the diversity on the Kawais (both mp7 as well as mp11) comes from the fact that they are very very versatile master controllers (much more then the cp88)

 

I know its not everyones cup of Tea, but for me the future is in combining hardware with software sounds on my macbook and ipad. And thats where the Nord stage is far from diverse...

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Well, the diversity on the Kawais (both mp7 as well as mp11) comes from the fact that they are very very versatile master controllers (much more then the cp88)

MP7, MP11, and CP88 are all four-zone MIDI controllers. MP11 beats CP88 by having four zone on/off buttons and four definable knobs; MP7 beats MP11 by having those controls plus four additional zone sliders.

 

I know its not everyones cup of Tea, but for me the future is in combining hardware with software sounds on my macbook and ipad. And thats where the Nord stage is far from diverse...

Nord Stage is decently functional as a two-zone MIDI controller (that's what the two panels of EXT functions are for). But this Nord Grand does seem to lag there, I've seen no indication of any specific MIDI controller functionality. The addition of even just a single set of EXT controls would have been a nice enhancement.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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46 lbs is the heaviest keyboard Nord has ever made, yet it will be considered portable by lots of people. ... I ... know exactly where [Aidan's] cutoff is. Mine is around 40 lbs.

 

At around 40 lbs for beings semi-portable, it seems the best actions for acoustic piano are the Yamaha actions. I'm really hoping the CP88 is an improvement over the CP4 in terms of sound and action, and not just user interface. 7 pounds more for the RD-2000 is an interesting comparison to the CP88...

 

I know its not everyones cup of Tea, but for me the future is in combining hardware with software sounds on my macbook and ipad. And thats where the Nord stage is far from diverse...

 

I agree, and I think it's crazy that any new keyboards come out without a built-in audio interface for this reason. The CP88 with a directly-connected iPad covers a lot of sonic territory, with the iPad able to make up for the lack of sound diversity in the CP88's sub section.

 

A CP88, Mojo 61, and iPad could cover nearly everything and offer two very good and distinct actions.

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46 lbs is the heaviest keyboard Nord has ever made, yet it will be considered portable by lots of people. ... I ... know exactly where [Aidan's] cutoff is. Mine is around 40 lbs.

 

At around 40 lbs for beings semi-portable, it seems the best actions for acoustic piano are the Yamaha actions. I'm really hoping the CP88 is an improvement over the CP4 in terms of sound and action, and not just user interface. 7 pounds more for the RD-2000 is an interesting comparison to the CP88...

 

I know its not everyones cup of Tea, but for me the future is in combining hardware with software sounds on my macbook and ipad. And thats where the Nord stage is far from diverse...

 

I agree, and I think it's crazy that any new keyboards come out without a built-in audio interface for this reason. The CP88 with a directly-connected iPad covers a lot of sonic territory, with the iPad able to make up for the lack of sound diversity in the CP88's sub section.

 

A CP88, Mojo 61, and iPad could cover nearly everything and offer two very good and distinct actions.

 

Dont forget, its not only about weight, but also length....

i had an RD 2000 and sent it back.

That damned extra block at the end for the pitch/mod lever makes the Roland REALLY ungainly and hard to move with 1person.

The CP88, on the other hand, feels LESS than 40 lbs.

I picked it up off the stand and carried it a bit.

Well balanced and would be even nicer in a wheeled soft case with strategically placed handles.

Also, the pitch and mod levers are REALLY ergonomic and smooth.

I really liked it on the second try!

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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Dont forget, its not only about weight, but also length....

i had an RD 2000 and sent it back.

That damned extra block at the end for the pitch/mod lever makes the Roland REALLY ungainly and hard to move with 1person.

The CP88, on the other hand, feels LESS than 40 lbs.

I picked it up off the stand and carried it a bit.

Well balanced and would be even nicer in a wheeled soft case with strategically placed handles.

Also, the pitch and mod levers are REALLY ergonomic and smooth.

I really liked it on the second try!

 

I completely agree. If the CP88 is actually a step up from the CP4 in terms of action and sound quality, the compactness and 7 lbs less mass are significant advantages over the RD-2000. Maybe it could actually be moved around in a city in its wheeled case? I really wish Yamaha had added drawbars and Nord-like flexibility in sound library management.

 

I also think the built-in audio interface and mod sticks are significant advantages over the Nord Piano 4.

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Dont forget, its not only about weight, but also length....

i had an RD 2000 and sent it back.

That damned extra block at the end for the pitch/mod lever makes the Roland REALLY ungainly and hard to move with 1person.

The CP88, on the other hand, feels LESS than 40 lbs.

I picked it up off the stand and carried it a bit.

Well balanced and would be even nicer in a wheeled soft case with strategically placed handles.

Also, the pitch and mod levers are REALLY ergonomic and smooth.

I really liked it on the second try!

 

I completely agree. If the CP88 is actually a step up from the CP4 in terms of action and sound quality, the compactness and 7 lbs less mass are significant advantages over the RD-2000. Maybe it could actually be moved around in a city in its wheeled case? I really wish Yamaha had added drawbars and Nord-like flexibility in sound library management.

 

I also think the built-in audio interface and mod sticks are significant advantages over the Nord Piano 4.

 

I think the best head to head is with Nord Piano 4, rather than Stage or Electro.

One thing you always have to keep in mind in Yamaha.....well....sucks.....as far as clonewheels.....

the combo sounds were decent, but the Hammond sounds were bottom of the barrel.

"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny � products which prove themselves superior in every respect.�

Robert Bosch, 1919

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I love it.. but I would never spend that sort of bread on anything but a new Baby Grand for home now ..

 

Good point. Although you're still a ways off from getting anything that I would consider good and would want to keep for a long time -that is if the Nord is $4-5K. Still it's a good chunk of dough to put towards something like a Yamaha C2 or an older C3.

 

You're closer if you went with the Avantgrand N2 or N1X. Or the Kawai Novus hybrid.

 

I'd go with an acoustic Dave, to be honest I haven't tried N2, N1X, Novus but my instincts tell me I think I would be happier with a C2/3 a bit more or any half way decent acoustic grand. Not ready to buy a Steinway any time soon, though I would love to!

 

Now you gave me the bug to check out those digital's.

 

 CP-50, YC 73,  FP-80, PX5-S, NE-5d61, Kurzweil SP6, XK-3, CX-3, Hammond XK-3, Yamaha YUX Upright, '66 B3/Leslie 145/122

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The N3/3x is awesome for a digital piano.

Yes of course still not a C3 or D, but its the best action youre going to find on a digital and an extensive monitoring system for the sample library. I havent played the Kawai Novus yet. Although I am eager to.

 

[video:youtube]

 

 

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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The N3/3x is awesome for a digital piano.

Yes of course still not a C3 or D, but its the best action youre going to find on a digital and an extensive monitoring system for the sample library. I havent played the Kawai Novus yet. Although I am eager to.

 

[video:youtube]

 

 

I live in a condo. I played the avant grand N3/3x and its an incredible instrument for people who cant have a grand due to noise/space. Where I live a new one is 16,000. I found someone selling a yamaha grantouch GT2 for 2000. Sure, its an older sample with less polyphony, but its still the same thing as the N3x, ie.a real grand action with a sound system built into a grand front. I bought the grantouch and could not be happier.

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and it makes even less sense to pay $4,000 for a Nord Grand, when you know that you can have a Kawai MP7SE for less than half the price, about $1,500...

Though you generally pay a premium for the models that emphasize single function direct controls over multi-function controls and menu navigation. Kawai MP11SE leans toward the former, MP7SE leans toward the latter. And I think that's definitely part of the Nord appeal. Similarly, the Yamaha that I think would have the most similar appeal would be the CP88. Something the Nord has over a CP88 or MP11SE is diversity... it has the widest range of different piano sample sets, and the widest range of non-piano sounds.

Well, the price point of the MP7SE says midrange and doesn't have the same layout as the MP11SE, with clearly divided sections. However, to me this is a good thing - for those of us who have played and sat down an hour or so, in front of an MP7SE knows that it's very user friendly, with a very clever user interface, so even though it doesn't look as if it has a one button per function-interface, it certainly acts like it in practice.

Also, the feel of the keys on the MP7SE, and the overall build quality makes it feel as if it was a much more expensive stage piano.

About half a year ago, I spent a whole day in Stockholm, and I played about every digital piano I could find (Kawai MP7SE, MP11SE, ES8, CA98, Novus NV10, Roland RD2000, Dexibell P3, Yamaha CP4, Montage 8, Nord Piano 4, Stage 3 HA88, Viscount Physis H2, Korg SV1, GrandStage 88, P1, Kurzweil SP6, Casio/Bechstein GP-500, and maybe some more I can't remember right now). Now I know, there's a lot of personal preference here (of course), but based on that day, with all the stage pianos I played, the MP7SE was the clear winner - and if I should pick the best digital piano I've ever played - the CA98 is nothing short of amazing, and also a clear winner - I even preferred it over the NV10, much thanks to is dual wooden transducer on the back of the piano (the NV10 has traditional speakers). The CA98 sounded and felt just like an acoustic instrument! However, then NAMM and the release of the CP88 happened - 2½ weeks later I bought a CP88 instead of the planned MP7SE (for some reason Swedish music stores seemed to get the very first batch, and I was lucky to fetch the first one arriving in my home city..!), and I haven't regretted that purchase a single day since, yet another amazing digital piano! :)

 

It depends if you wanna pay that extra $1500 for all the Nord piano download options

Well, for $1500 you could probably buy a used Nord Electro 4 or even 5, to add to your MP7SE...! :D

Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...!  🙄

main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live

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Don't get me wrong though - I love the design and the idea of the Nord Grand. I just wish, especially when considering the price, that it at least could have one extern section from the Stage 1/2/3... of course, you could compensate for the very limited MIDI implementation with a device like the Lab4music Sipario, or similar, but I still wish the Grand had a bit more MIDI functions built-in. The design with the flat top could be perfect for a lower 88 board (the flat top was actually one of the main reasons I chose a Keyb/Viscount Legend clonewheel over a Mojo).

Now it's too obvious that the Grand is "just" a repackaged Nord Piano 4 with a better keybed and more luxurious housing (and ok, there's an extra GB of piano flash memory, as well, something that the Piano 4 should have had from the start, IMO... My guess is that will also see a Piano 4 EX in the near future).

 

I'm looking forward to play a Nord Grand this summer - a store owner in Stockholm has been promised to get one of the very first production units for his little boutique store, probably late June, early July, so then he'll have some kind of event. :)

Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...!  🙄

main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live

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I'm not sure I see a market demand for adding an external control section to a high-end weighted keyboard stage piano without also adding basic controllers like mod wheel, pitch bend, and aftertouch.

 

Without that, what need would adding an "extern" section fill that isn't already easily addressed by the product as it is?

"The Angels of Libra are in the European vanguard of the [retro soul] movement" (Bill Buckley, Soul and Jazz and Funk)

The Drawbars | off jazz organ trio

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I'm not sure I see a market demand for adding an external control section to a high-end weighted keyboard stage piano without also adding basic controllers like mod wheel, pitch bend, and aftertouch.

 

Well, an end block with the classic Nord wooden pitch bender and granite mod wheel would certainly be a welcome addition as wheel, in my book..! :)

 

Aftertouch is certainly nice to have, but I have never seen it implemented in a three sensor keybed, at least not one with counterweights and "let-off simulation" (escapement) - I guess aftertouch would not only be complicated to implement in a keybed with "let-off"/escapement, but also would take away some of the grand piano-like realism of the keys.

Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...!  🙄

main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live

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basic controllers like mod wheel, pitch bend, and aftertouch.

 

Without that, what need would adding an "extern" section fill that isn't already easily addressed by the product as it is?

Access to additional sounds (i.e. from a sound module, iPad, pc). Useful parameters for the EXT function to still have would be MIDI channel, key range assignment, enable/disable pedal(s), program change, volume, octave shift. That alone would still be very useful. I have often used boards to trigger external sounds without needing to use mw/pb/at on them... in fact, more often than not.

 

If you wanted to take it further, since I think (only) the right-most pedal is continuous on the Nord, there could even also be an option to redefine it to CC1 modulation, to substitute for not having a wheel, and maybe even an option to then use one of the other two pedals to be an on/off sustain so you wouldn't have to lose sustain function to get mod. The continuous pedal could also have options to define it as pitch bend... say, with whole step up or whole step down options.

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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basic controllers like mod wheel, pitch bend, and aftertouch.

 

Without that, what need would adding an "extern" section fill that isn't already easily addressed by the product as it is?

Access to additional sounds (i.e. from a sound module, iPad, pc). Useful parameters for the EXT function to still have would be MIDI channel, key range assignment, enable/disable pedal(s), program change, volume, octave shift. That alone would still be very useful. I have often used boards to trigger external sounds without needing to use mw/pb/at on them... in fact, more often than not.

This!

 

I often use the lower manual of my Legend Live to trigger piano sounds in Panel A on my Stage 3 compact. The Legend Live has also very limited MIDI implementation, but it has a very clever solution for its manuals - they don't send out any MIDI at all, as long as a preset or either drawbar set is active - but once you press cancel (on the Live: both A and B drawbar buttons simultaneously), it starts sending midi - so a dual button press turns the manual from organ to midi controller - very convenient!

 

For a stage piano, it would be great to have a button for local off, and another for MIDI transmit on/off. Actually, this is the one thing I miss in the CP88 - to turn on/off MIDI transmission you have to go into the menu system (but once there, there's an extensive list of MIDI parameters for each of the four possible zones). Of course, it's very easy to have one or more of the 8 presets in a bank, to send MIDI, and the others "local" only, but I would have loved to have a dedicated extern section, with its own lever/switch like the other three internal sections.

Too much stuff, too little time, too few gigs, should spend more time practicing...!  🙄

main instruments: Nord Stage 3 compact, Yamaha CP88, Kurzweil PC4, Viscount KeyB Legend Live

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Ah, that makes sense. I suppose even just a quick method to switch MIDI send on/off would go a long way in combination the existing split functionality in that case, and turning the internal synth engine down to zero...

"The Angels of Libra are in the European vanguard of the [retro soul] movement" (Bill Buckley, Soul and Jazz and Funk)

The Drawbars | off jazz organ trio

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