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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: analogika] #2984074 04/08/19 07:45 AM
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Mr T, Sweden Offline
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Originally Posted By: analogika
I'm not sure I see a market demand for adding an external control section to a high-end weighted keyboard stage piano without also adding basic controllers like mod wheel, pitch bend, and aftertouch.


Well, an end block with the classic Nord wooden pitch bender and granite mod wheel would certainly be a welcome addition as wheel, in my book..! smile

Aftertouch is certainly nice to have, but I have never seen it implemented in a three sensor keybed, at least not one with counterweights and "let-off simulation" (escapement) - I guess aftertouch would not only be complicated to implement in a keybed with "let-off"/escapement, but also would take away some of the grand piano-like realism of the keys.


Nord Stage 3 sw73, Yamaha CP88, KeyB Legend Live, Kurzweil PC3K7, EV ZXa1 + sub. K&M stands, Hammond E112, Leslie 3300, EHX V256, Roland SE-02, Yamaha EX5R & TG77, Novation Nova desktop & much more...
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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: analogika] #2984075 04/08/19 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted By: analogika
basic controllers like mod wheel, pitch bend, and aftertouch.

Without that, what need would adding an "extern" section fill that isn't already easily addressed by the product as it is?

Access to additional sounds (i.e. from a sound module, iPad, pc). Useful parameters for the EXT function to still have would be MIDI channel, key range assignment, enable/disable pedal(s), program change, volume, octave shift. That alone would still be very useful. I have often used boards to trigger external sounds without needing to use mw/pb/at on them... in fact, more often than not.

If you wanted to take it further, since I think (only) the right-most pedal is continuous on the Nord, there could even also be an option to redefine it to CC1 modulation, to substitute for not having a wheel, and maybe even an option to then use one of the other two pedals to be an on/off sustain so you wouldn't have to lose sustain function to get mod. The continuous pedal could also have options to define it as pitch bend... say, with whole step up or whole step down options.


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: AnotherScott] #2984080 04/08/19 09:01 AM
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Mr T, Sweden Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: analogika
basic controllers like mod wheel, pitch bend, and aftertouch.

Without that, what need would adding an "extern" section fill that isn't already easily addressed by the product as it is?

Access to additional sounds (i.e. from a sound module, iPad, pc). Useful parameters for the EXT function to still have would be MIDI channel, key range assignment, enable/disable pedal(s), program change, volume, octave shift. That alone would still be very useful. I have often used boards to trigger external sounds without needing to use mw/pb/at on them... in fact, more often than not.

This!

I often use the lower manual of my Legend Live to trigger piano sounds in Panel A on my Stage 3 compact. The Legend Live has also very limited MIDI implementation, but it has a very clever solution for its manuals - they don't send out any MIDI at all, as long as a preset or either drawbar set is active - but once you press cancel (on the Live: both A and B drawbar buttons simultaneously), it starts sending midi - so a dual button press turns the manual from organ to midi controller - very convenient!

For a stage piano, it would be great to have a button for local off, and another for MIDI transmit on/off. Actually, this is the one thing I miss in the CP88 - to turn on/off MIDI transmission you have to go into the menu system (but once there, there's an extensive list of MIDI parameters for each of the four possible zones). Of course, it's very easy to have one or more of the 8 presets in a bank, to send MIDI, and the others "local" only, but I would have loved to have a dedicated extern section, with its own lever/switch like the other three internal sections.


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Mr T, Sweden] #2984085 04/08/19 10:09 AM
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Ah, that makes sense. I suppose even just a quick method to switch MIDI send on/off would go a long way in combination the existing split functionality in that case, and turning the internal synth engine down to zero...

Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Mr T, Sweden] #2984091 04/08/19 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mr T, Sweden
For a stage piano, it would be great to have a button for local off, and another for MIDI transmit on/off.

Korg SV1 gets halfway there with a front panel Local Off button, but a companion MIDI transmit on/off button would have been great. But at least you can add it for $20, an extra MIDI cable, and a bit of velcro... https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/258510836/midi-kill-switch

Originally Posted By: analogika
I suppose even just a quick method to switch MIDI send on/off would go a long way in combination the existing split functionality in that case, and turning the internal synth engine down to zero...

Yup, that same box will do it. And I might create selectable Programs with silenced internal sounds, rather than deal with moving the volume controls up and down.


Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!
Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: AnotherScott] #2984096 04/08/19 11:22 AM
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On the subject of price, I would gladly pay more every time for a flat top keyboard capable of supporting a clone or synth. How much would I pay? How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? How much do I hate 2-tiered stands? Not sure where my limit is but I wouldn't blink at an extra $1K.

I've never found a 2-tiered stand I was happy with. The closest was the Invisible, which I foolishly sold (I had 2 of them, sold both!).

I thrill to a weighted bottom keyboard with a flat top and front-facing controls. And I have one, it's the Crumar Seven. The Seven isn't perfect (if it was, it'd be a "Ten"). But the physical configuration compensates for a lot of downside including it's price.

So, that said, am I interested in the new Nord? Given I already have the Seven, which has the additional advantages of being 73 keys and 33 lbs, probably not. Just saying that I'd love to see more flat top weighted action keyboards. Good on Nord for putting one out.

As I stated above, we don't know for sure whether the narrow top of the Nord will support another keyboard, but I'd bet it will, in a "functional overhang" mode.

Last edited by Adan; 04/08/19 11:28 AM.

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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Adan] #2984099 04/08/19 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted By: Adan
I've never found a 2-tiered stand I was happy with. The closest was the Invisible, which I foolishly sold (I had 2 of them, sold both!).


I have about six or seven different 2- and 3-tier stands... and my absolute favorite so far is definitely the K&M 18950, which is so easily reconfigurable in height, width (!) and also it is one of the few stands where you can get just about any two keyboards really close together. The Standtastic in my home studio is also great in that regard!

Originally Posted By: Adan
I thrill to a weighted bottom keyboard with a flat top and front-facing controls. And I have one, it's the Crumar Seven. The Seven isn't perfect (if it was, it'd be a "Ten"). But the physical configuration compensates for a lot of downside including it's price.

So, that said, am I interested in the new Nord? Given I already have the Seven, which has the additional advantages of being 73 keys and 33 lbs, probably not. Just saying that I'd love to see more flat top weighted action keyboards. Good on Nord for putting one out.

As I stated above, we don't know for sure whether the narrow top of the Nord will support another keyboard, but I'd bet it will, in a "functional overhang" mode.


I rehearsed with my Legend Live and Stage 3 compact yesterday. I put a rubber mat on the top of the Legend, and then a thin wooden board on top of that, and in turn the Stage 3 compact. So with the wooden board it really doesnt matter how the rubber feet of the Stage 3 is placed - it gets quite stable regardless of that. Without the rubber mat and board, the Stage 3 doesn't sit so good on top of the Legend...


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2984783 04/12/19 09:19 AM
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Gear: Nord Electro 4 73SW, Kawai CA67, Yamaha DXR10.
Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Sun&Rain] #2991336 05/26/19 02:56 PM
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I'm considering selling my Kronos 61 to get this (that will be my only way to afford it).

Con: I'll be left with no semi-weighted keys/mod-wheel for playing leads etc, BUT, i do have an M-Audio Keystation 49 which i can put on top of the Nord Grand surface and use it to control Omnisphere.

Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Keepitsimple] #2991354 05/26/19 05:26 PM
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[quote=Keepitsimple]i do have an M-Audio Keystation 49 which i can put on top of the Nord Grand surface and use it to control Omnisphere./quote]

This approach puzzles me. If you're running a software rig, why do you need a premium hardware instrument? The sounds you can get in software will far exceed the Nord capabilities. I get that:
1. You want a premium action. That's what the Kawai VPC1 is for. Plenty of other options.
2. You want backup sounds in case the software crashes. But they don't have to be top-flight sounds - just enough to get you through the gig.

I'm not knocking the decision, the Nord Grand looks like a great way to deliver a premium instrument. It's just that if you have to sell something else to get it, you may be trying to solve the wrong problem...

Just my ú0.015

Cheers, Mike.


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: stoken6] #2991358 05/26/19 05:41 PM
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Because i'm sick and tired of holding my left ear with my right hand when playing piano. Even with vsts and a controller, the connection is still lacking compared to a hardware machine with 88 keys and good piano sounds. It all goes back to a mistake i made back in 2011, when i bought a kronos 61 instead of an 88. Who knows, maybe if i did, i wouldn't be making this decision now.

But the biggest reason is that the Kronos doesn't inspire me as a pianist/composer anymore. After 8 years, i can hear the Kronos German Grand in my sleep because of how much i used it.

Gigs: Not much at the moment. Getting ready to release my solo piano album later this summer and hopefully doing a local tour promoting it. Some venues might have a grand piano and some maybe don't and i want one machine to use when promoting the album.

We all have our reasons.

Last edited by Keepitsimple; 05/26/19 05:42 PM.
Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Keepitsimple] #2991363 05/26/19 06:12 PM
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Got it.

Good luck in your quest. Nord's reputation for FTE connection is obviously subjective, but not the highest. Try a Yamaha CP4 (end-of-line or second hand) for comparison? You may not need to sell your Kronos.

Cheers, Mike.


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: stoken6] #2991364 05/26/19 06:16 PM
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Thanks Mike. Yep still trying different models. Thereĺs still time between now until the Nord is available. Who knows what happens until then.

Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Sun&Rain] #3007498 09/10/19 08:18 PM
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This was just posted over at norduserforum.com



/Bj°rn - old gearjunkie, still with lot of GAS
Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Sun&Rain] #3007514 09/10/19 10:41 PM
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Very nice playing, really enjoyed it. I love that Metheny tune ! Nice to see and hear a real, more mature player, not trying to show off chops on a demo, just play some music. Really on any keyboard for that matter. wink

Sounds good of course. I'd have to play it in person to say for sure but generally, the Nord sound is not my thing when I have to grudgingly play an electronic keyboard.

I did connect well with the CP88 when I recently played it, and would probably go that route if I ever move up from the CP4.

Again kudos to Nord for trying to up their game for serious pianists. Although contrary to what he posted in the video- I don't consider it in the "lightweight" category for gig schlepping. wink

Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Sun&Rain] #3007524 09/11/19 12:17 AM
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Enjoyed the playing, didn't pay attention what piano he was using.

Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Sun&Rain] #3007569 09/11/19 12:22 PM
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I quite liked the White Grand in that video - it's got a slightly "upright-y" character, boxy and compact, rather than all-dominating like a grand. And I didn't hear any thinning out two octaves above middle C, which is the usual Nord problem.

Playing was indeed wonderful.

42lb is too heavy for me, but relatively competitive with CP88 at 41lb and others.

Cheers, Mike.


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: gg22] #3007617 09/11/19 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gg22
Enjoyed the playing, didn't pay attention what piano he was using.


Same here. The piano sound was good enough that I ended up focusing on what the musician was doing vs. trying to dissect the instrument with my ears. More than good enough for me, although I'm going to have to think carefully about the weight.


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Sun&Rain] #3007621 09/11/19 04:56 PM
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His playing was indeed enjoyable in a way piano demo videos seldom are. That's why I watched the whole thing. Of course you can watch hundreds of videos like this but the only way to know if you'll like a digital piano is by playing it. I'd like to play the Nord Grand side by side with a CP88, that would probably qualify as a shootout of the best sub-45 lb DP slabs. The CP88 so stellar I'd have to label the Nord the underdog going into that fight, at least for me.

One thing I noted in the video is that he seems to be largely a middle-of-the-keyboard player, at least in this brief sample. And he values a light weight board, so he might be happy with a 73 or 76 that shaves off a few lbs. It would be great if every time a manufacturer issues a CP or a Nord Grand, they also make a 7x version. That's the world I want to live in someday.


Crumar Seven, Crumar Mojo 61, Korg Vox Continental, Yamaha CP73.

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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Sun&Rain] #3007624 09/11/19 05:26 PM
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For comparison :

Nord Grand -- Height: 6.6", Width: 50.7, Depth : 15.2" Weight: 46 lbs.

CP88-- Height: 5.5" Width: 51.1" Depth: 14.3" Weight: 41 lbs.

Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Sun&Rain] #3007627 09/11/19 05:59 PM
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Well, I gotta say, the combination of action, sound, and physical presence (like the Crumar Seven, it looks more like my Wurlitzer than like a typical digital keyboard, and I love me a flat-ish top and angled controls) is super enticing for me. It'd be a lot heavier than my Privia, but lighter than the VPC-1, and built-in sounds, too!

But even though it's less expensive than I anticipated, I just don't see myself upgrading to one at that price point. So it goes!


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