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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Delaware Dave] #2983450 04/04/19 12:04 PM
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Heís not heavy, heís uncanny!


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2983462 04/04/19 12:25 PM
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Now they have me wondering,
Will there ever be a grand-stage?

Seems many people love the formfactor for an 88 key, withcontrolls on the front, espescially when used as a lower key.. or just as a controller for a DAW...

I personally think the action might be a GF-C from the description..

Last edited by KorgyPorky; 04/04/19 12:28 PM.
Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: KorgyPorky] #2983564 04/05/19 06:28 AM
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Looks sexy. The price will definitely bite.


if you can't tell the difference, does it matter?
Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: KorgyPorky] #2983567 04/05/19 06:37 AM
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First thought: Too heavy for me to gig with. Anything north of 18kg these days, I just won't deal with. My MODX8 does 80% of what I need these days at 13kg and for anything more serious pianistically, I still have the CP4.

Second thought: This could be an attractive choice for permanent installation into a home studio if you couldn't afford or have room for a decent piano.

Third thought: But if it wasn't going anywhere, you could get a better action and save a whole bunch of money by just buying an MP11SE.


Casio PX-S1000 | Yamaha CP4 | Yamaha MODX 8 | Yamaha Tyros 5-76 | Nord Electro 5D-73 | Moog Sub 37
Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2983570 04/05/19 06:58 AM
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Hmmm...this is cool!

Even more cool would be if they could offer a version with the MP11 keybed as well smile


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Aidan] #2983574 04/05/19 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted By: Aidan
First thought: Too heavy for me to gig with. Anything north of 18kg these days, I just won't deal with. My MODX8 does 80% of what I need these days at 13kg and for anything more serious pianistically, I still have the CP4.

Second thought: This could be an attractive choice for permanent installation into a home studio if you couldn't afford or have room for a decent piano.

Third thought: But if it wasn't going anywhere, you could get a better action and save a whole bunch of money by just buying an MP11SE.


Which is why Kawai didnít agree to share the GF action most likely.


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2983592 04/05/19 11:05 AM
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46 lbs is the heaviest keyboard Nord has ever made, yet it will be considered portable by lots of people. If Aiden spoke in terms of lbs instead of kilograms (as an aside, how ironic that the brits would burden us with the pound system only to abandon us at this late date), I would know exactly where his cutoff is. Mine is around 40 lbs.

So I definitely see Aiden's logic. If I'm going to get a 40+ lbs keyboard that I won't gig with, it might as well be the MP11SE.

But I think we'll be in the minority.


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Adan] #2983594 04/05/19 11:18 AM
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Hi Adan, sorry about that. Nearly all weights in store descriptions etc are in kg over here now so I've sort of got used to it. But yes, around 40lb is my limit!


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: analogholic] #2983599 04/05/19 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: Aidan
Third thought: But if it wasn't going anywhere, you could get a better action and save a whole bunch of money by just buying an MP11SE.

Exactly!
...and it makes even less sense to pay $4,000 for a Nord Grand, when you know that you can have a Kawai MP7SE for less than half the price, about $1,500...


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Mr T, Sweden] #2983601 04/05/19 11:57 AM
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It depends if you wanna pay that extra $1500 for all the Nord piano doenload options


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: jimkost2002] #2983602 04/05/19 12:02 PM
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If youíre playing at home VPC-1 or an MP11 or a Kawai digital console with a laptop and tons of AU/VSTs that dwarf the Nord library starting with Keyscape and maybe Garritan CFX.

I also doubt this instrument if going to be under $4999.99 in the US. I might be wrong on that but thatís my guess.


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2983605 04/05/19 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
If youíre playing at home VPC-1 or an MP11 or a Kawai digital console with a laptop and tons of AU/VSTs that dwarf the Nord library starting with Keyscape and maybe Garritan CFX.


yea, true, but if you donít gainstage them right, they will sound like azz


"I have constantly tried to deliver only products which withstand the closest scrutiny
Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Mr T, Sweden] #2983609 04/05/19 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky
Now they have me wondering,
Will there ever be a grand-stage?

Seems many people love the formfactor for an 88 key, withcontrolls on the front, espescially when used as a lower key.. or just as a controller for a DAW...

Stage has so many more controls, I don't think you could go with that look/form factor. Or at least the control surface would have to extend quite a bit higher.

Originally Posted By: Mr T, Sweden
and it makes even less sense to pay $4,000 for a Nord Grand, when you know that you can have a Kawai MP7SE for less than half the price, about $1,500...

Though you generally pay a premium for the models that emphasize single function direct controls over multi-function controls and menu navigation. Kawai MP11SE leans toward the former, MP7SE leans toward the latter. And I think that's definitely part of the Nord appeal. Similarly, the Yamaha that I think would have the most similar appeal would be the CP88. Something the Nord has over a CP88 or MP11SE is diversity... it has the widest range of different piano sample sets, and the widest range of non-piano sounds.


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: jimkost2002] #2983612 04/05/19 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
If youíre playing at home VPC-1 or an MP11 or a Kawai digital console with a laptop and tons of AU/VSTs that dwarf the Nord library starting with Keyscape and maybe Garritan CFX.


yea, true, but if you donít gainstage them right, they will sound like azz


Yeah but thatís true for all PC based rigs and even user created patches on high end instruments and sadly even factory patches on cheaper models.


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: AnotherScott] #2983613 04/05/19 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Something the Nord has over a CP88 or MP11SE is diversity... it has the widest range of different piano sample sets, and the widest range of non-piano sounds.


I love that about Nords DP sounds . . .you can really change up the character of the AP sounds... Kurzweil's also.. Roland, Korg, Yamaha there are different pianos in there but not near as many nor as diverse . .

Last edited by Legatoboy; 04/05/19 12:26 PM.

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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: AnotherScott] #2983627 04/05/19 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Something the Nord has over a CP88 or MP11SE is diversity... it has the widest range of different piano sample sets, and the widest range of non-piano sounds.


Well, the diversity on the Kawais (both mp7 as well as mp11) comes from the fact that they are very very versatile master controllers (much more then the cp88)

I know its not everyoneís cup of Tea, but for me the future is in combining hardware with software sounds on my macbook and ipad. And thats where the Nord stage is far from diverse...

Last edited by KorgyPorky; 04/05/19 01:32 PM.
Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: KorgyPorky] #2983635 04/05/19 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky
Well, the diversity on the Kawais (both mp7 as well as mp11) comes from the fact that they are very very versatile master controllers (much more then the cp88)

MP7, MP11, and CP88 are all four-zone MIDI controllers. MP11 beats CP88 by having four zone on/off buttons and four definable knobs; MP7 beats MP11 by having those controls plus four additional zone sliders.

Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky
I know its not everyoneís cup of Tea, but for me the future is in combining hardware with software sounds on my macbook and ipad. And thats where the Nord stage is far from diverse...

Nord Stage is decently functional as a two-zone MIDI controller (that's what the two panels of EXT functions are for). But this Nord Grand does seem to lag there, I've seen no indication of any specific MIDI controller functionality. The addition of even just a single set of EXT controls would have been a nice enhancement.


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: KorgyPorky] #2983646 04/05/19 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: Adan
46 lbs is the heaviest keyboard Nord has ever made, yet it will be considered portable by lots of people. ... I ... know exactly where [Aidan's] cutoff is. Mine is around 40 lbs.


At around 40 lbs for beings semi-portable, it seems the best actions for acoustic piano are the Yamaha actions. I'm really hoping the CP88 is an improvement over the CP4 in terms of sound and action, and not just user interface. 7 pounds more for the RD-2000 is an interesting comparison to the CP88...

Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky

I know its not everyoneís cup of Tea, but for me the future is in combining hardware with software sounds on my macbook and ipad. And thats where the Nord stage is far from diverse...


I agree, and I think it's crazy that any new keyboards come out without a built-in audio interface for this reason. The CP88 with a directly-connected iPad covers a lot of sonic territory, with the iPad able to make up for the lack of sound diversity in the CP88's sub section.

A CP88, Mojo 61, and iPad could cover nearly everything and offer two very good and distinct actions.

Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: tfort] #2983648 04/05/19 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted By: tfort
Originally Posted By: Adan
46 lbs is the heaviest keyboard Nord has ever made, yet it will be considered portable by lots of people. ... I ... know exactly where [Aidan's] cutoff is. Mine is around 40 lbs.


At around 40 lbs for beings semi-portable, it seems the best actions for acoustic piano are the Yamaha actions. I'm really hoping the CP88 is an improvement over the CP4 in terms of sound and action, and not just user interface. 7 pounds more for the RD-2000 is an interesting comparison to the CP88...

Originally Posted By: KorgyPorky

I know its not everyoneís cup of Tea, but for me the future is in combining hardware with software sounds on my macbook and ipad. And thats where the Nord stage is far from diverse...


I agree, and I think it's crazy that any new keyboards come out without a built-in audio interface for this reason. The CP88 with a directly-connected iPad covers a lot of sonic territory, with the iPad able to make up for the lack of sound diversity in the CP88's sub section.

A CP88, Mojo 61, and iPad could cover nearly everything and offer two very good and distinct actions.


Donít forget, its not only about weight, but also length....
i had an RD 2000 and sent it back.
That damned extra block at the end for the pitch/mod lever makes the Roland REALLY ungainly and hard to move with 1person.
The CP88, on the other hand, feels LESS than 40 lbs.
I picked it up off the stand and carried it a bit.
Well balanced and would be even nicer in a wheeled soft case with strategically placed handles.
Also, the pitch and mod levers are REALLY ergonomic and smooth.
I really liked it on the second try!


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: jimkost2002] #2983655 04/05/19 04:11 PM
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I agree that if this is going to be used just for home, go with the superior MP11SE action at a cheaper price. Or the VPC-1 with whatever vst you choose.

Unless you're a hardcore Nord Piano fan where the sound and the diversity trumps the action.

But again, I would be happy with just the P-515 for the little I would use a DP at home.

Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: jimkost2002] #2983656 04/05/19 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
Donít forget, its not only about weight, but also length....
i had an RD 2000 and sent it back.
That damned extra block at the end for the pitch/mod lever makes the Roland REALLY ungainly and hard to move with 1person.
The CP88, on the other hand, feels LESS than 40 lbs.
I picked it up off the stand and carried it a bit.
Well balanced and would be even nicer in a wheeled soft case with strategically placed handles.
Also, the pitch and mod levers are REALLY ergonomic and smooth.
I really liked it on the second try!


I completely agree. If the CP88 is actually a step up from the CP4 in terms of action and sound quality, the compactness and 7 lbs less mass are significant advantages over the RD-2000. Maybe it could actually be moved around in a city in its wheeled case? I really wish Yamaha had added drawbars and Nord-like flexibility in sound library management.

I also think the built-in audio interface and mod sticks are significant advantages over the Nord Piano 4.

Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: tfort] #2983657 04/05/19 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: tfort
Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
Donít forget, its not only about weight, but also length....
i had an RD 2000 and sent it back.
That damned extra block at the end for the pitch/mod lever makes the Roland REALLY ungainly and hard to move with 1person.
The CP88, on the other hand, feels LESS than 40 lbs.
I picked it up off the stand and carried it a bit.
Well balanced and would be even nicer in a wheeled soft case with strategically placed handles.
Also, the pitch and mod levers are REALLY ergonomic and smooth.
I really liked it on the second try!


I completely agree. If the CP88 is actually a step up from the CP4 in terms of action and sound quality, the compactness and 7 lbs less mass are significant advantages over the RD-2000. Maybe it could actually be moved around in a city in its wheeled case? I really wish Yamaha had added drawbars and Nord-like flexibility in sound library management.

I also think the built-in audio interface and mod sticks are significant advantages over the Nord Piano 4.


I think the best head to head is with Nord Piano 4, rather than Stage or Electro.
One thing you always have to keep in mind in Yamaha.....well....sucks.....as far as clonewheels.....
the combo sounds were decent, but the Hammond sounds were bottom of the barrel.


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Legatoboy] #2983658 04/05/19 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: Legatoboy
I love it.. but I would never spend that sort of bread on anything but a new Baby Grand for home now ..


Good point. Although you're still a ways off from getting anything that I would consider good and would want to keep for a long time -that is if the Nord is $4-5K. Still it's a good chunk of dough to put towards something like a Yamaha C2 or an older C3.

You're closer if you went with the Avantgrand N2 or N1X. Or the Kawai Novus hybrid.

Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Dave Ferris] #2983660 04/05/19 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Originally Posted By: Legatoboy
I love it.. but I would never spend that sort of bread on anything but a new Baby Grand for home now ..


Good point. Although you're still a ways off from getting anything that I would consider good and would want to keep for a long time -that is if the Nord is $4-5K. Still it's a good chunk of dough to put towards something like a Yamaha C2 or an older C3.

You're closer if you went with the Avantgrand N2 or N1X. Or the Kawai Novus hybrid.


I'd go with an acoustic Dave, to be honest I haven't tried N2, N1X, Novus but my instincts tell me I think I would be happier with a C2/3 a bit more or any half way decent acoustic grand. Not ready to buy a Steinway any time soon, though I would love to!

Now you gave me the bug to check out those digital's.

Last edited by Legatoboy; 04/05/19 04:39 PM.

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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Legatoboy] #2983669 04/05/19 05:48 PM
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The N3/3x is awesome for a digital piano.
Yes of course still not a C3 or D, but itís the best action youíre going to find on a digital and an extensive monitoring system for the sample library. I havenít played the Kawai Novus yet. Although I am eager to.





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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2983670 04/05/19 05:54 PM
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2,5 GB is just not right.
So many sounds to load and so little space in this day and age.
Definitely not cricket.

Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2983776 04/06/19 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
The N3/3x is awesome for a digital piano.
Yes of course still not a C3 or D, but itís the best action youíre going to find on a digital and an extensive monitoring system for the sample library. I havenít played the Kawai Novus yet. Although I am eager to.





I live in a condo. I played the avant grand N3/3x and itís an incredible instrument for people who canít have a grand due to noise/space. Where I live a new one is 16,000. I found someone selling a yamaha grantouch GT2 for 2000. Sure, itís an older sample with less polyphony, but itís still the same thing as the N3x, ie.a real grand action with a sound system built into a grand front. I bought the grantouch and could not be happier.

Last edited by doughnuts; 04/06/19 11:54 AM.
Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: jimkost2002] #2984066 04/08/19 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mr T, Sweden
and it makes even less sense to pay $4,000 for a Nord Grand, when you know that you can have a Kawai MP7SE for less than half the price, about $1,500...

Though you generally pay a premium for the models that emphasize single function direct controls over multi-function controls and menu navigation. Kawai MP11SE leans toward the former, MP7SE leans toward the latter. And I think that's definitely part of the Nord appeal. Similarly, the Yamaha that I think would have the most similar appeal would be the CP88. Something the Nord has over a CP88 or MP11SE is diversity... it has the widest range of different piano sample sets, and the widest range of non-piano sounds.[/quote]
Well, the price point of the MP7SE says midrange and doesn't have the same layout as the MP11SE, with clearly divided sections. However, to me this is a good thing - for those of us who have played and sat down an hour or so, in front of an MP7SE knows that it's very user friendly, with a very clever user interface, so even though it doesn't look as if it has a one button per function-interface, it certainly acts like it in practice.
Also, the feel of the keys on the MP7SE, and the overall build quality makes it feel as if it was a much more expensive stage piano.
About half a year ago, I spent a whole day in Stockholm, and I played about every digital piano I could find (Kawai MP7SE, MP11SE, ES8, CA98, Novus NV10, Roland RD2000, Dexibell P3, Yamaha CP4, Montage 8, Nord Piano 4, Stage 3 HA88, Viscount Physis H2, Korg SV1, GrandStage 88, P1, Kurzweil SP6, Casio/Bechstein GP-500, and maybe some more I can't remember right now). Now I know, there's a lot of personal preference here (of course), but based on that day, with all the stage pianos I played, the MP7SE was the clear winner - and if I should pick the best digital piano I've ever played - the CA98 is nothing short of amazing, and also a clear winner - I even preferred it over the NV10, much thanks to is dual wooden transducer on the back of the piano (the NV10 has traditional speakers). The CA98 sounded and felt just like an acoustic instrument! However, then NAMM and the release of the CP88 happened - 2Ĺ weeks later I bought a CP88 instead of the planned MP7SE (for some reason Swedish music stores seemed to get the very first batch, and I was lucky to fetch the first one arriving in my home city..!), and I haven't regretted that purchase a single day since, yet another amazing digital piano! smile

Originally Posted By: jimkost2002
It depends if you wanna pay that extra $1500 for all the Nord piano download options

Well, for $1500 you could probably buy a used Nord Electro 4 or even 5, to add to your MP7SE...! grin


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Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Mr T, Sweden] #2984068 04/08/19 06:13 AM
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Don't get me wrong though - I love the design and the idea of the Nord Grand. I just wish, especially when considering the price, that it at least could have one extern section from the Stage 1/2/3... of course, you could compensate for the very limited MIDI implementation with a device like the Lab4music Sipario, or similar, but I still wish the Grand had a bit more MIDI functions built-in. The design with the flat top could be perfect for a lower 88 board (the flat top was actually one of the main reasons I chose a Keyb/Viscount Legend clonewheel over a Mojo).
Now it's too obvious that the Grand is "just" a repackaged Nord Piano 4 with a better keybed and more luxurious housing (and ok, there's an extra GB of piano flash memory, as well, something that the Piano 4 should have had from the start, IMO... My guess is that will also see a Piano 4 EX in the near future).

I'm looking forward to play a Nord Grand this summer - a store owner in Stockholm has been promised to get one of the very first production units for his little boutique store, probably late June, early July, so then he'll have some kind of event. smile


Nord Stage 3 sw73, Yamaha CP88, KeyB Legend Live, Kurzweil PC3K7, EV ZXa1 + sub. K&M stands, Hammond E112, Leslie 3300, EHX V256, Roland SE-02, Yamaha EX5R & TG77, Novation Nova desktop & much more...
Re: Nord Grand with Kawai Action [Re: Mr T, Sweden] #2984072 04/08/19 07:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 308
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analogika Offline
Senior Member
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Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 308
I'm not sure I see a market demand for adding an external control section to a high-end weighted keyboard stage piano without also adding basic controllers like mod wheel, pitch bend, and aftertouch.

Without that, what need would adding an "extern" section fill that isn't already easily addressed by the product as it is?

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